Scientists - Time to actively try to contact aliens using "active SETI"
- Thread starter SniperHunter
- Start date
- Status
terrisus
Member
Just think of all the new porn we would discover.
SuperSamyon
Member
This is pretty spectacular when you think about it. Makes searching for life silly since no one will ever be able to actually reach life should you find it.
bobbychalkers
Member
I'd assume any type of civilization that has the capability of receiving the message and could make it to earth would probably know about us already.
Mechanized
Member
Soul is in quotes for a reason. We may posess some unquantifiable essence that only these creatures could feed off of. If that bothers you too much replace soul with life force, blood, eyeballs, whatever.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I was joking. Thought the second line made that clear enough :X
This is obviously all speculative so who knows what will happen. I do think it would be extraordinarily strange for some random species to evolve in a way that they need our life essence or eyeballs to live. Maybe they just eat anything in general, that would make more sense. But even then we would be doomed as they'd have the tech to detect us from light years away and we wouldn't be able to do anything about it. You could respond with "Well why poke the bear?" but this is that bear's turf and it will find us sooner or later.
I'd still want to know first.
Regret Upon Approval
Member
Too fear driven.
It is entirely possible another civilization is aware of us but either has yet to respond or has chosen to ignore. Ignoring in this case could be akin to ignoring an ant hill in the far corner of a large field.
If you want to be undetectable, it is a bit too late for that and no sense technologically regressing for the sake of hiding.
Lastly, aliens don't live across the street. The nearest star system is like 4 light years away while systems with planets of interest are hundreds of light years away.
Even if you started spamming signals at all those systems tomorrow, maybe someone here will have great grandchildren that'll see some sort of result.
It is entirely possible another civilization is aware of us but either has yet to respond or has chosen to ignore. Ignoring in this case could be akin to ignoring an ant hill in the far corner of a large field.
If you want to be undetectable, it is a bit too late for that and no sense technologically regressing for the sake of hiding.
Lastly, aliens don't live across the street. The nearest star system is like 4 light years away while systems with planets of interest are hundreds of light years away.
Even if you started spamming signals at all those systems tomorrow, maybe someone here will have great grandchildren that'll see some sort of result.
borborygmus
Member
Agreed.
Let's also stop trying to prove that we exist inside a simulation, lest we get terminated.
M0nochromatic
Member
I've always been most interested in another species that already got past their own tech singularity. They communicate with us somehow, but would they have individualism? Physical forms? They'd probably just send machines to establish contact for the sake of efficiency. Would they want us to see their world? Would we be capable of physically getting there in our current forms? Would they want us to join them in their virtual reality internet world that they uploaded themselves into long ago?
It's one of the dumbest, but most delightful concepts to ponder.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Haven't we already communicated, or should I say 'made clear' to the rest of the universe that we exist? We send radio signals and other types of waves out everyday.
If they are post singularity, it would be largely incomprehensible, so we'd be hitting their "physics" and "math" sections of wikipedia for decades before deciphering anything else. I mean, even pre singularity it'd be crazy, but we'd probably be dealing with biology based aliens, with bodies that need to eat and a sun to prosper, not computers or whatever.
Of course there's the possibility of aliens not communicating with any pre-singularity society, simply because it'd be boring for their super AIs to not talk to another super AI, so maybe no biological alien ever receives a SETI signal from an AI
"Oh crap, they're become self-aware. We're gonna have to reboot the simulation AGAIN. My advisor said my funding was cut if this happens one more time..."
It would take a long ass time for that passive wave to make it anywhere, and fairly likely that it would just be barely static by the time it does.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Here's my scenario for why we shouldn't.
Imagine, for the sake of argument, that the United States somehow missed a teeny island in the middle of the Pacific, home to a tribe of gun-toting cannibals that somehow wrecked their perfect, Eden-like oasis. Just never saw it.
And then one day we get a message from them. TV, radio, audio, film, photos. We don't know how they advanced, isolated as heave been, and we don't care. But we do know they've basically caused an island wide mass-extinction of resources they need, they provide ample evidence of their aggression, and even accidentally reveal their weapons systems are reaching nuclear-age sophistication. Did I mention they celebrate wiping out every previous tribe which held different beliefs?
A quick flyover reveals they're ready to start expanding their little tribe across the Pacific.
###
If it's not the US that fires first, it's Japan. Or the Phillipeans, or Australia. Or China. Bye bye little island tribe.
Imagine, for the sake of argument, that the United States somehow missed a teeny island in the middle of the Pacific, home to a tribe of gun-toting cannibals that somehow wrecked their perfect, Eden-like oasis. Just never saw it.
And then one day we get a message from them. TV, radio, audio, film, photos. We don't know how they advanced, isolated as heave been, and we don't care. But we do know they've basically caused an island wide mass-extinction of resources they need, they provide ample evidence of their aggression, and even accidentally reveal their weapons systems are reaching nuclear-age sophistication. Did I mention they celebrate wiping out every previous tribe which held different beliefs?
A quick flyover reveals they're ready to start expanding their little tribe across the Pacific.
###
If it's not the US that fires first, it's Japan. Or the Phillipeans, or Australia. Or China. Bye bye little island tribe.
M0nochromatic
Member
That's like saying I looked out my backyard curtains for 1 whole second and determined that I'm the only human in existence. We haven't been around long enought to tell.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Why spend so much time looking up there for aliens when they already live among us?
Alcoremortis
Member
I don't think the danger would be an alien invasion (if there are aliens).
I think the danger would be them trying to communicate back and accidentally obliterating all life on Earth with a massive gamma pulse or something.
I think the danger would be them trying to communicate back and accidentally obliterating all life on Earth with a massive gamma pulse or something.
The Lone Courier
Member
Well I'm voting for Kodos.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
The most advanced society on this planet sent men to the moon and values freedom and democracy.
Last I checked the Nazis don't rule the Earth. Overall I believe we are on a net positive course as a species and that any species capable of making it to space is farther ahead on that path than us.
Put me in the "aliens capable of visiting us are either neutral, or Vulcans" camp.
The idea of warrior space races like Klingons is utterly idiotic to me.
The amount of misanthropy on GAF always astounds me.
Last I checked the Nazis don't rule the Earth. Overall I believe we are on a net positive course as a species and that any species capable of making it to space is farther ahead on that path than us.
Put me in the "aliens capable of visiting us are either neutral, or Vulcans" camp.
The idea of warrior space races like Klingons is utterly idiotic to me.
The amount of misanthropy on GAF always astounds me.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Meh, just do it.
I won't still be alive when a response comes anyway. So even if alien overlords come and obliterate everyone, I'd not been alive to experience it
I won't still be alive when a response comes anyway. So even if alien overlords come and obliterate everyone, I'd not been alive to experience it
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/the-fermi-paradox_b_5489415.html
Nobody is going to answer.
If we're not alone then intelligent, technologically advanced life is extremely rare.. which might as well puts us at back at square one anyhow.
Nobody is going to answer.
If we're not alone then intelligent, technologically advanced life is extremely rare.. which might as well puts us at back at square one anyhow.
The key word is alien. Meaning, foreign.
You can't assume anything about a species that visits Earth. These may be creatures who operate beyond our understanding. Or, they may be totally benevolent and still be toxic.
Regret Upon Approval
Member
Yeah, I think a warrior/aggressive species would wipe itself out rather than somehow coming together to become space faring.
How did you figure that one out?
What if, say, the planet is an entire "nation" that's had no civil conflict for thousands of years and has had not even the opportunity to come up with a reason to destroy itself? What if there is a species that is biologically incapable of fighting within itself, but will kill aliens without a second thought? In what way have we - an aggressive race - been wiped out yet? Are we not already space faring and capable of sending messages across space? Why the hell couldn't an aggressive race survive long enough to reach other civilisations? Doing so only requires some common sense at the simplest level, really.
There's no way of predicting this sort of stuff. There is a genuine risk to doing this.
The first civilisation to go intersteller (and keep up the pace with the development) would definitely be the most lucky one in the universe.
Miss.Selfdestruct
Member
Because people be stupid and might not realize that humans are a unique type of mammal species on this planet. As far as anyone on Earth knows.
If we kill Earth, and ourselves along the way, due to every self destructive shit we keep doing to it before other intelligent beings get here to explore. It's worth leaving some trace of our existence. Whatever their behavior and mode of thought is, it may be a critical piece of knowledge for them.
tl;dr: YOLO
BouncyFrag
Member
Imagine if the aliens read GAF-OT to learn about us and nothing else.
I wouldn't call it "morals" per say, but the behavior of species and of societies are shaped by more things than just random chance. Humans evolved certain behaviors for a reason. Human society has developed in certain ways for a reason. And that reason is a simple one: organisims are more likely to survive and prosper by behaving in ways that minimize risk and maximize returns. Both human economics and the expansion of ant populations for example are both shaped by mathematical theory that wouldn't fundamentally vary no matter where you are in the universe.
As such, while an alien species might possess completely unknown values and biology completely unlike anything that exists on earth, their evolution and society would be shaped by similar forces to what exist on Earth. There is a concept in evolution called convergent evolution. It is used to describe how both sharks and dolphins have the same basic body shape, despite being from such different parts of the animal kingdom and sharing direct evolutionary link. Basically, both dolphins and sharks evolved a streamlined body-shape that allows for speedy movement underwater. Because of the mathematics and physics of moving through a fluid, a certain shape is simply superior to others. It is perfectly reasonable to think that any world that has complex life-forms that live in the sea, there would be alien species with a similar shape to dolphins or sharks.
I would argue that the same might be true for alien society to a certain extent. No matter where you go, you can't escape the laws of supply and demand. It functions on a level removed from biological psychology. Logic and mathematics work the same regardless of who use them. Any intelligent lifeform would have to adapt to these universal constants.
I don't think we need to fear a complete unknown and give undue credit to any random possibility. Just because something is alien doesn't mean we can't logically assess the risks of trying to contact it. And my feeling is that any alien would have too little to gain for too much cost to bother attacking our planet. There is very little economic incentive for an interstellar civilization to wage war on an alien race that can't leave their own planet. So while the possibility might exist that they might bring war on us, I think that possibility is extremely minute.
Let's put it in this way: If we would reverse the roles and recieve an incomprensible alien message from a certain system, I would openly advocate for shooting a sub-luminic projectile into whatever planet the transmission came from and turn it into fine dust. If we would have the capacity for obliterating their star system altogether I would say to go for it instead. We don't need any competition insde our comfy monopoly on the intelligent species business, and I doubt that other aliens would like it either.
I do not see what aliens could potentially do to us that we are not already doing to ourselves.
Seriously.
Large scale abuse and murder of the poor, the "enemy" ? Check.
Complete disregard of your environment? Check.
Mass extinction of other species, driven by profits? Check.
Governing countries with no regard towards future sustainability? Check.
Harboring dangerous, potentially earth-threatening weapons of mass destruction? Check.
What would they do?
Seriously.
Large scale abuse and murder of the poor, the "enemy" ? Check.
Complete disregard of your environment? Check.
Mass extinction of other species, driven by profits? Check.
Governing countries with no regard towards future sustainability? Check.
Harboring dangerous, potentially earth-threatening weapons of mass destruction? Check.
What would they do?
Our regular broadcasts can only go so far. Unless they are highly focused, the strength of radio waves diminishes rapidly with distance. You would need to really minimize signal spread to maintain a signal that would be detectable over the rest of the radiation emitted throughout the universe.
Also, more radio waves doesn't necessarily mean a stronger signal overall. Since the phase differences between individual signals should be more or less random, I'd expect interference alone would ravage the strength of our radio signals beyond a very limited range.
Whatever signal remains is probably incoherent and would dissipate as it gets farther. I don't think it would be distinguishable from background noise in either intensity or frequency over interstellar distances.
MilkyJoe
Member
We're like the sand castle, if this actually works.
If you were an alien, how would you view the human race? They would probably think of us as parasites. Nothing more.
God, you're right. First contact will open up a whole new world of terrifying fetishes.
Oh hey. I do research with these guys. I hope more press means more funding.
Edit: and yeah, the argument of don't do it is kind of ridiculous. Our human broadcasts have traveled almost a hundred light years by now (and early radio broadacasts have gone ever farther). Here's an interesting infographic:
Edit: and yeah, the argument of don't do it is kind of ridiculous. Our human broadcasts have traveled almost a hundred light years by now (and early radio broadacasts have gone ever farther). Here's an interesting infographic:
Gemüsepizza
Member
Your naivety also astounds me. The "most advanced society on this planet" still kills innocent people without remorse, and our economic system is based on exploiting the weak.
And we are only talking about humans here. But wouldn't it be much more important to look at how we treat other species? For example animals, which we regard as lesser species? Things don't look so good here. We capture them. We torture them. We slaughter them. Without second thoughts. Every year, we kill 50 billion (!) animals. Mostly for fun / pleasure. We don't care. I can only hope that aliens would treat us better. But I am pretty sure they would classify us as a threat, based on our behaviour. Humans are not "nice".
Your idea of aliens who are like the Vulkans is also not any better than the idea of them being like Klingons. If there were aliens without feelings like the Vulkans, they wouldn't act like the Vulkans in Star Trek. They would just take what they want, and kill everything in their way.
Marvel
could never
Well, at least they'd have a comprehensive guide to ass washing.
plasmasd
Member
I'm not sure where the idea comes from that intelligent life would be friendly or helpful if it could reach us. Just look at all forms of life on our own world. Nature is amoral, the smartest devours conquers and controls lower forms of life. We are the only ones who put on a guise of morality.
As the greatest biological categorization/problem solving machines on this planet it should be plainly evident what would happen if we were no longer held the crown of dominant intelligence.
As the greatest biological categorization/problem solving machines on this planet it should be plainly evident what would happen if we were no longer held the crown of dominant intelligence.
honestly i think the chances of intelligent life coming to obliterate us is pretty low. that presupposes that they're advanced to reach us to begin with, which, again, the chances are low
the benefits probably outweigh the risks, as making contact could help us get off the planet before it becomes uninhabitable
DO IT.gif
the benefits probably outweigh the risks, as making contact could help us get off the planet before it becomes uninhabitable
DO IT.gif
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
The total extent of our radio transmission contact with the galaxy we are in, let alone the universe.
I for one am glad of that fact, the whole idea of advertising our presence to alien lifeforms of unknown ability and motivation always seemed like stupidity to me, actually making contact would probably lead to the whole of mankind winning the Darwin award.
I'm in the camp that says we have enough time between now and when the messages reach aliens in order to reach the hypothetical singularity. The nearest civilisation probably won't be within the ~100 light year bubble we've already telecast. So you can assume a targeted broadcast now won't be picked up by anyone for millennia, if ever.
- Status