sol_bad
Member
You say a movie is meant to make you feel something.
Then you say that they make you laugh, hence they make you feel happy.
But they aren't art. And something making you laugh and feel happy is childish?
hmmm
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Scorcese says Marvel films are essentially 'theme parks', 'not cinema'
- Thread starter Revolutionary
- Start date
You say a movie is meant to make you feel something.
Then you say that they make you laugh, hence they make you feel happy.
But they aren't art. And something making you laugh and feel happy is childish?
hmmm
Azurro
Banned
Art is supposed to have meaning as well. It's being looked at from an artistic point of view, and those movies don't say anything. They are just a product, a very well made one, but they have the depth of a whoppee cushion, they are very basic.
I don't know why saying the truth of what a consumable product is bothers you. Dr. Strange is not supposed to make you question your morality or show you something impactful on your life on screen. It's made to create some kick ass vistas, show cool fighting scenes and have Cucumberpatch wear a really cool looking costume.
sol_bad
Member
I'm not bothered at all. We just have different interpretations of art. I enjoy the hell out of Scorsese's work and the MCU films.
The only thing that I'm annoyed at Scorsese for is letting his next film be exclusive to Netflix as there is an extremely slim chance of me being able to see that on a large screen at the cinema. You know, where the art of film should be seen and experienced.
Javthusiast
Banned
He is right. They are basically fast food.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's important to realize the significance of this comment.
Fast food is meant to be easy to access, very palatable, and cheap. It fills you up for awhile but soon you are hungry again. Eating too much of it is bad for you. You can't appreciate good food if you eat fast food too much.
This is completely true for movies too.
ResilientBanana
Member
They aren't cinema, no. But they are fun as hell.
michaelius
Banned
He isn't wrong.
Marvel movies are movie equivalent of fast food.
Marvel movies are movie equivalent of fast food.
EightBit Man
Member
Am I the only person who hasn't seen a Marvel film? I haven't even seen the first X-Men and Spider-Man films. lol
I did see Christopher Nolan's Batman films though, and they are pretty great.
Maybe DC is more my thing.
I did see Christopher Nolan's Batman films though, and they are pretty great.
Maybe DC is more my thing.
ResilientBanana
Member
Watch Batman vs Superman and beyond and you will quickly change your mind.
Greedings
Member
He’s completely right. They’re just like McDonald’s or KFC. Sure, they’re fine if you’re hungry, but you’ll never look back on them as your favourite.
Unless of course you’ve never been exposed to anything of substance.
They’re designed to appeal to as many people as possible. Which somehow works lol.
Unless of course you’ve never been exposed to anything of substance.
They’re designed to appeal to as many people as possible. Which somehow works lol.
brap
Banned
They're basically a big budget CGI version of this. Don't forget to add more quips though.
Lmao what? Wasn't the first MCU movie Iron Man? I was in middle school then.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
They're actually better than most movies, at least statistically.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
10 years ago. If you're almost 30, then you were either 19 or 20 ten years ago. In middle School.
brap
Banned
I was 14 when it came out and I'm 25 now.10 years ago. If you're almost 30, then you were either 19 or 20 ten years ago. In middle School.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's not a joke or a meme to say that your average Marvel fan probably doesn't know who Martin Scorsese is. He made most of his movies when they had not yet even been born.
brap
Banned
There's plenty of manchildren in their 30s that lap up this dogshit. No excuse.
It's Jeff
Banned
Posting this video doesn't accent your point. I think it's considered a hate crime in 31 states. What you've done to my eyes and ears is unforgivable.
Unknown Soldier
Member
What's really aggravating is they tried to apply the same formula to Star Wars and the Disney trilogy has been the result of that. Watching Star Wars being reduced to being what it has become is a lot more infuriating than anything I saw from Marvel to be perfectly honest.
Javthusiast
Banned
This is really the sad part. Disney either turns every possible ip into samey marvel copies or they do nothing but remakes of their or by them aquired properties.
Dark Star
Member
I haven't payed much attention to Marvel after Disney took over. I think the last of Marvel I really enjoyed was the Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy. It feels very cohesive, and some of the performances (J.K Simmons) are genuinely authentic and award worthy. I think comic-book films in the decade have been seriously run-of-the-mill. You know what to expect and you leave the theater satisfied with that in mind. A perfect example of the "theme park" effect is literally Jurrassic World. It lacks substance, it's sub-par to the original, but it's a fun time with great CGI.
Do I enjoy modern-day Marvel films? They're the best popcorn-flick/summer block buster moments, so they have that going for them. Take or it leave it, they're still "cinematic" experiences. You could argue the same for DCEU. Compare a really dark and gritty Scorsese/Tarantino film to the recent Tod Phillip's Joker, and you're still on the same page. There is a time and place for what Scorsese refers to as legitimate cinema, and that is simply when you're in the mood. It also has to with audience maturity. There is a reason films like The Godfather and Taxi Driver are R rated. These kinds of films demand your full focus to understand the story and characters, and are definitely not suitable for young children, who are the main audience for "theme park" films.
Do I enjoy modern-day Marvel films? They're the best popcorn-flick/summer block buster moments, so they have that going for them. Take or it leave it, they're still "cinematic" experiences. You could argue the same for DCEU. Compare a really dark and gritty Scorsese/Tarantino film to the recent Tod Phillip's Joker, and you're still on the same page. There is a time and place for what Scorsese refers to as legitimate cinema, and that is simply when you're in the mood. It also has to with audience maturity. There is a reason films like The Godfather and Taxi Driver are R rated. These kinds of films demand your full focus to understand the story and characters, and are definitely not suitable for young children, who are the main audience for "theme park" films.
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H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
He’s right. I can’t watch that stuff, the ADHD camera work makes me want to shout myself.
Azurro
Banned
Enjoying something doesn't mean it's art. I enjoy eating McDonald's every once in a while. That doesn't make it high cuisine.
brap
Banned
i think people are just agreeing with scorcese because of his accolades. people need to start thinking for themselves he's obviously wrong. just because you've won awards doesn't make your opinion fact, doesn't put you above everyone else. if you think about it every movie is a "theme park". makes you go on a rollercoaster ride of emotions.
sol_bad
Member
So Ant-Man, GOTG and Black Panther are all the exact same? They are not made by committee but by people who have a vision. All the films look visually different and are shot differently. Comic book films prior to 2008 are made by committee,
Again, we have different viewpoints.
What scorsese is saying is like a world renowned artist saying that comic books aren't art. They are art, comic books have all types of art within their pages and all sorts of stories. Some stories are simple and fun, others are deep and meaningful.
For me personally, the MCU movies have made me laugh, cry, feel dread, feel worried and all sorts of other things. So how can you sit there and define what art is for other people? They also say things about the current world and peoples every day lives.
The very first MCU film, Iron Man, is about a man coming to terms with what his fathers company has been doing. It talks about modern war and arms dealing. We all know that middle eastern terrorists have received weapons from other nations.
Winter Soldier is about government control and freedom, people being watched and spied on, it talks about trust and lies.
GOTG is about family and bettering yourself as a person. People who have lost loved ones to cancer will also find meaning with this film.
Age of Ultron is about owning up to your mistakes and fixing them.
Black Panther obviously says a lot about how black people are treated. By the end of the film, my interpretation is that black people need to stop pointing fingers and blaming and help themselves.
I can go on and on if I really want to analyse the films. It's fine if they mean nothing to you but don't forget that they do also mean a lot to other people.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I was 14 when it came out and I'm 25 now.
Then you're not almost 30. LOL... Just say you're 5 years away from 30. I kept thinking you're like 28 or 29! LOL
Manus
Member
Are you for real right now? Tell me what risks these films took? At least with Ragnarok it was a full blown comedy. None of the three films you listed have any artistic style, visually their all so boring to look at. Prior to 2008 we actually had real Marvel movies with vision and inspiration behind them. Iron Man 1, Spider-Man 1 and 2.
sol_bad
Member
Manus
Member
What do I need to list more? Besides Into the Spiderverse and Batman Begins. You just listed the only good comic book films.
Sorry bro, Marvel movies blow.
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sol_bad
Member
Also, I didnt say that each individual MCU film was taking risks, I said they are made by passionate people. But if you do want to talk about risks, the entire concept of the interconnected MCU was/is a massive risk. Spider-Man 1 and 2 and dark Knight didnt take any risks at all either to be honest, they are just very well made films.
*EDIT*
You also ignored my question.
Winter Soldier, Ant-Man and Black Panther all feel the exact same? In their visual look and story telling?
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I love Black Panther! It's one of my favorite movies of the last 10 years! I disliked the last fight Scene. I wanted to see something like the airport scene in Civil War and not that CGI crapfest.
I saw a different message in the movie but I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Sleep is calling...
Keihart
Member
Some are pretty thematic yet lighthearted and self aware, like GoTG or Thor Ragnarok. I mean, they are not fucking Synecdoche, New York, but they are very competent stories told in intereseting visual ways. I get what he is getting at, because MCU movies are very much more made to consume than expression, but i get the feeling that he is also kinda salty at how successful these apparently frivolous films are.
And i'm just gonna leave this here because Earthling Cinema is too good:
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John Day
Member
I mean, yeahhh, if by cinema he means “movies that will open your brains to thoughts and shit” yeah, i agree.
They are fucking fun movies. Fun.
Like, Bad Boys 2 fucking fun. I don’t need them to win oscars, cause they fullfilled their role. Any “fan” that asks any more of them are fucking crazy.
They are fucking fun movies. Fun.
Like, Bad Boys 2 fucking fun. I don’t need them to win oscars, cause they fullfilled their role. Any “fan” that asks any more of them are fucking crazy.
brap
Banned
Too far buddy. Too far.
John Day
Member
Come the FUCK ON!! Bad Boys 2 was fucking fun!!!
Constant Flux
Member
Bad Boys 2 was indeed fun. I fucking loved the shit out of that movie!
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brap
Banned
It was the fact that you said marvel movies are as fun as bad boys 2
Constant Flux
Member
It was the fact that you said marvel movies are as fun as bad boys 2
Marvel movies ARE fun! What’s wrong with you, brap?!
#Phonepunk#
Banned
there has been something lost in the transition from analog to digital. the film medium used to be an analog one, printed on literal film. it had life to it because it was an accurate capture of the living world, the way light plays in real time. when this is captured digitally, where it can be easily manipulated or distorted, or assembled through a variety of environments, the resulting lighting is less stable, the image is less real, and the brain knows it. it gives things a less realistic look.
on top of that, digital is unrealistically clean, at least to me, a person raised partially on film. there are things inherent in physically working with the media, noise gained while cutting it on an editing station, pacing decisions you would make using that kind of machine, maybe rules you learned from the old days that were tried and true, etc. all this has been lost in the use of digital processing.
similarly the inclusion of other real world art fields: matte painting, model building, set design, all of which are now done w a lot of CGI. tbf i have seen many paintings that took my breath away, and CGI that has done that has been few and far between. sure, the look of old optical effects can be accurately emulated by modern technology, but it will never fully capture that look. when you compound these things by frame rate, and consider the noise (dust, scratches, cigarette burns, etc. you see on old film) of the medium, being shown at 24fps almost on top of the main movie, none of that is there with digital. it is all clean. the magic is gone.
most of these movies are shot digitally, on green screens, with characters that are wholly digital, the lighting is digital, the texture work is digital, perhaps the backgrounds are digital. the camera is a perfect pan rather than being carried by a human being. the set is a green screen. a CGI background can look great indeed, but is no match for a real matte painting. i am not sorry to say this, and all you need to do is see a high resolution rip of a FILM film and you will know what i speak is true. Scorcese is old school, i think he would agree with me. cinema is at heart an analog medium.
on top of that, digital is unrealistically clean, at least to me, a person raised partially on film. there are things inherent in physically working with the media, noise gained while cutting it on an editing station, pacing decisions you would make using that kind of machine, maybe rules you learned from the old days that were tried and true, etc. all this has been lost in the use of digital processing.
similarly the inclusion of other real world art fields: matte painting, model building, set design, all of which are now done w a lot of CGI. tbf i have seen many paintings that took my breath away, and CGI that has done that has been few and far between. sure, the look of old optical effects can be accurately emulated by modern technology, but it will never fully capture that look. when you compound these things by frame rate, and consider the noise (dust, scratches, cigarette burns, etc. you see on old film) of the medium, being shown at 24fps almost on top of the main movie, none of that is there with digital. it is all clean. the magic is gone.
most of these movies are shot digitally, on green screens, with characters that are wholly digital, the lighting is digital, the texture work is digital, perhaps the backgrounds are digital. the camera is a perfect pan rather than being carried by a human being. the set is a green screen. a CGI background can look great indeed, but is no match for a real matte painting. i am not sorry to say this, and all you need to do is see a high resolution rip of a FILM film and you will know what i speak is true. Scorcese is old school, i think he would agree with me. cinema is at heart an analog medium.
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Constant Flux
Member
brap
Banned
They're annoying quippy garbage where a bunch of adults pretend to fight each other in front of a greenscreen.
Digital looks awful and makes things look cheap.
Constant Flux
Member
What’s this greenscreen you speak of? Pretending? They fight for REAL, man! FOR REAL!
sol_bad
Member
C'mon brap, you seem to love 80s style cheese action, they are full of corny one liners. Tis no different.
Digital and analogue can both look great. And they can both be digitally edited to the beyond.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
just as well, the movies and tv have merged together. Prestigue TV has taken over everything. they are written and directed by the same people. JJ Abrams, Joss Whedon, Rian Johnson, GOT guys, etc.
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John Day
Member
It was the fact that you said marvel movies are as fun as bad boys 2
Awful opinion, but yes, in the sense that BB2 is very rewatchable, but, some of the marvel movies.. yeah. So i agree lol