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[Tripolygon]

Not really apples to apples, because on PC you also have to compile shaders, which is precompiled on PS5. Not to shit talk PS5, but it need to be taken into account to make it fair.

I'm aware. That is what I'm trying to explain there are things a PC has to do that consoles do not which makes loading faster on consoles than PC.

 

[M1chl]

I'm aware. That is what I'm trying to explain there are things a PC has to do that consoles do not which makes loading faster on consoles than PC.

Fair enough

 

[Amiga]

AFAIK the full version of Direct Storage isn't even out yet.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

well when phones cam quality is worse than nintendo 8bit, is that russian by any chance ?

Not sure why came out like that its a samsung a20

 

[Tripolygon]

Not sure why came out like that its a samsung a20

I kid, I kid. Lol

 

[Slicker than your average]

Is the fun stored in this direct storage too?
No matter how much tech is in this; I can't see the game actually being fun.

 

[kikii]

Not sure why came out like that its a samsung a20

 

[Pedro Motta]

With several first party games loading slower on the Series X, than on PC, I have my doubts.

Games like Forza 5 should be loading in a handful of seconds, not a whole minute.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Thanks for the info. I know I wasn't crazy. Hopefully this puts an end to people on this board lying saying the Series consoles have been using Direct Storage.

No problem. I also got it wrong. I do think some titles might have used it, but none have utilized it yet the way it was meant to be used I think, which would be a situation where the developers actually took the time to do the following in the first picture below. These are the most basic steps they say are necessary to at least start using DirectStorage and at least begin benefitting from the improved IO Stack.

important to know this is still not DirectStorage at its best. Will show that later in post.

And if you've done this stuff listed above, your game will basically be doing something like what's shown below. Presumably since Scorn is apparently advertising that it's using DirectStorage, I can only assume it means they've done all the steps above, and have the below operating in their game. They will, however, STILL be using CPU decompression to my knowledge because there is no windows GPU decompression method that is yet available at this time. Even Nvidia's RTX IO is not currently ready. Microsoft is working with them and AMD on getting GPU decompression ready. So, presumably, unless that is somehow ready in time for Scorn (doubtful) or Forspoken and whatever other big 2023 releases that will be using DirectStorage on PC, they will all still be using the CPU for decompression.

What is shown below is presumably how DirectStorage is currently working on any Series X title that makes use of it. A version that still works in conjunction with the existing CPU decompression built into the game, likely because the game wasn't designed for next gen i/o tech in the consoles. This is it below, followed by what most titles do today (without direct storage) below that. Microsoft says that if developers at least do this much below they'll be able to much more easily integrate DirectStorage combined with GPU decompression into their game. But even with GPU Decompression, DirectStorage can still be pushed to another level when combined with something else. Will show what that is at the end of post that references how Microsoft suggests devs build their next gen game engines from the ground up for DirectStorage.

Old fashion way, what many games do now without directstorage.

Microsoft was still very much working on the PC implementation of DirectStorage well into this year, so I guess if developers weren't using it on their PC titles some just decided they weren't going to bother using it on Xbox Series Consoles either. First public API for DirectStorage was available to PC March this year and the more upgraded IO Stack that's more fit for DirectStorage shipped with Windows 11.

What Direct Storage should look like on Xbox Series X when using the hardware accelerated decompression on the GPU in connection with BCPack.

And what's a truly next gen and peak usage of DirectStorage? Designing your entire game engine around it by first implementing Sampler Feedback Streaming.

And a fantastic explanation from Reddit of the differences between PC Direct Storage and Xbox Series Direct Storage is as follows.



And finally, one of the best examples of a next-gen enhanced version of a game not even touching the bare minimum of DirectStorage on Xbox, and certainly also not using the PS5's IO in its most basic form either. CPU blitzed both due to its more powerful single-threaded CPU. It's all being done the old way. Sorry for long post, but thought this stuff is interesting enough to show people all of what we are missing. This is why I said in the SSD thread we haven't seen anything yet.

 

[Md Ray]

No there aren't.

Straight from MS software engineer/developer from the DirectStorage team:

Thanks Tripolygon , this was exactly what I've been looking for!

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Apparently not. I'm surprised by the thread discussion because I've been under the impression that Series consoles have been using DirectStorage since launch but going through different games' load time videos on YT Mister Wolf seems to be correct. Although the Microsoft video Tripolygon posted seems to contradict this; I wish the guy would've listed some of the games he was referring to.

Yep, they really haven't been, at least certainly not together with the hardware accelerated decompression unit and BCPack GPU texture compression. And for absolute certain none have used Sampler Feedback Streaming. And the chances all these studios already well deep into development, including on last gen hardware, all got the chance to completely rethink and then reorganize all their game's source data in a such a way as to fully take advantage of the massive jump in NVMe hardware queues, the insane number of requests each of those queues can handle, and the fact they can all operate in parallel.

Like the Dirt 5 dev said. BTW This dev is now with Playground Games and working on Fable.

We look at all of these things all of the time. I can't promise which stuff is going to come in future patches, because we have to balance loads of different things, but it might. That's the best I can do. In terms of fast storage on Series X, I think that hardware is great, I worked on it with Microsoft early on and provided some feedback to them. I looked at the speed that we could get from it, you can get 10GB in two seconds in my personal early tests, it may well be able to do way better than that.

The way to get the most out of fast storage on all platforms is to make many requests at once. You want to load five hundred textures, forget loading one texture, you want to load them all. That then gives some challenges to how you lay out your data. You need to know where they're going to go in memory, you need to know what is it you need before you ask for it. That's a challenge, it's not hardware, it's not the API from Microsoft or Sony, it's an engineering challenge. We're very close, we've done loads of testing, it's not something I'm gonna come to saying it'll come in a patch but it's something I'm very interested in personally.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Straight from MS software engineer/developer from the DirectStorage team:

Thanks Tripolygon , this was exactly what I've been looking for!

There are titles that use it, just no title whose engine was fully built from the ground up for it thus far, definitely none that are using Sampler Feedback Streaming, and more than likely nothing just yet using the dedicated decompression hardware.

It seems a lot of games thus far are still very much using CPU decompression with DirectStorage for now, likely due to all the cross gen development or simply just due to the fact their next-gen only title was already too far into development for them to properly utilize DirectStorage to its full potential.

 

[Bojji]

You don't make any sense. There are games that take 5 to 20+ seconds to load on PS5, doesn't mean they aren't using the new storage API. Different engines, different games load differently and just because they take longer to load does not mean they aren't targeting the new API.

Games that load like this aren't using any advantages of PS5 and Xbox and just load everything using CPU. Everything should be 5GB\s or 2GB\s using decompression tech.

Devs are lazy\don't have time, its just that.

 

[skit_data]

IT'S SCORN!!

Omg, I won't be able to play this game without quitely humming this song. Really catchy tune, where is it from originally? Some commercial I presume?

 

[Panajev2001a]

There are titles that use it, just no title whose engine was fully built from the ground up for it thus far, definitely none that are using Sampler Feedback Streaming, and more than likely nothing just yet using the dedicated decompression hardware.

While some games are not taking full advantage, nothing using the dedicated decompression HW I find hard to believe as basic use should require little to no effort from devs (unless tooling on MS is worse than we think).

SFS supposedly still showing little to no use 2+ years (from MS's own devs too) in is also not really good if it were true as it would make the point of those that did not use GPU area to implement it even stronger. By the time it would be a big differentiator you have very very mature techniques that may minimise them impact and you have next generation consoles not far around the corner (or we could say that it was overhyped instead of the greatest thing ever that 2+ years after launch, so 3 years or more after internal devs were exposed to it, nobody is still using).

The best point is that if you were trying to make an argument on how minimum specs hold stronger devices back (in this case it is partially because these engines are still cross generation ones built for older devices and scaled) and how cross generation is not great for actual users who jumped on the new HW (and overall slowing down the console transition just makes things worse for everyone)… well your post succeeds at doing that .

 

[drezz]

Omg, I won't be able to play this game without quitely humming this song. Really catchy tune, where is it from originally? Some commercial I presume?

Was some random "interview" of a kid liking corn and people memed on the kids statements about enjoying corn, and with time someone made a song out of what the kid said.
And then tiktok went balistic with the soundclip and here we are.

 

[darrylgorn]

Can't really say what the cause is but I'm aware of that issue, even my 3070 exhibits stutters and freezes especially when raytracing is on, it happens less with raytracing off but the game freezes for streaming to catch up every now and then when i'm swinging through the city, compared to when I played it on my PS4.

What resolution are you playing it at? I'm at 1080p and don't experience any of that.

 

[Tripolygon]

What resolution are you playing it at? I'm at 1080p and don't experience any of that.

1440p, with DLSS on and off.

 

[Tripolygon]

Games that load like this aren't using any advantages of PS5 and Xbox and just load everything using CPU. Everything should be 5GB\s or 2GB\s using decompression tech.

Devs are lazy\don't have time, its just that.

You first need to have a basic understanding of how games are made otherwise we can't have a fruitful discussion. Anyone that utters lazy devs i can't take seriously. Move along to other people who would entertain such drivel.

 

[Tripolygon]

Like the Dirt 5 dev said. BTW This dev is now with Playground Games and working on Fable.

Thanks for providing this quote because it underscores what I've been trying to tell Mister Wolf here.

The way to get the most out of fast storage on all platforms is to make many requests at once. You want to load five hundred textures, forget loading one texture, you want to load them all. That then gives some challenges to how you lay out your data. You need to know where they're going to go in memory, you need to know what is it you need before you ask for it. That's a challenge, it's not hardware, it's not the API from Microsoft or Sony, it's an engineering challenge. We're very close, we've done loads of testing, it's not something I'm gonna come to saying it'll come in a patch but it's something I'm very interested in personally.

Loading speed is determined by the game engine and how it is architected. The API is good enough and inconsequential for the most part.

I can certainly agree with the sentiment that the challenge is in how you architect your game engine to load is ultimately what determines how fast you load, hardware does play a not insignificant part because it does a lot of the heavy lifting, but less so API as that's just how you talk to the hardware. Another way to put it, a game engine that relies heavily on a single CPU core will not scale very well compared to a game engine that is very multithreaded. It's not the API, it is how you make your game engine.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Omg, I won't be able to play this game without quitely humming this song. Really catchy tune, where is it from originally? Some commercial I presume?

Omg you don't know the glory of corn lad



Not a commercial just a kid being really fucking funny lol

 

[twilo99]

Basically Cerny sauce for PC.

Yum.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

While some games are not taking full advantage, nothing using the dedicated decompression HW I find hard to believe as basic use should require little to no effort from devs (unless tooling on MS is worse than we think).

I hear you, but you have to keep in mind that many of the titles that have been released up to this stage, and that are still to be released, have all been in development using whatever existing single threaded CPU decompression solutions they've been using. Sometimes devs may decide it's a whole lot simpler to stay with what they have rather than changing any of the code and using something else. Even if relatively easy to do, there may ultimately not be any point for cross-gen games or for games so far into development already. Loading by default is automatically going to be significantly better than last gen just by doing the bare minimum because of the much stronger CPUs, the fast SSDs and by using the next gen storage API in any capacity. A perfect example using Cyberpunk on PS5.

Same console, just a patch where the game is now a native PS5 application better using the hardware. A lot of studios are going to be absolutely fine with just this improvement. This is likely still using CPU decompression. PS5 and Xbox, I'm sure, can load this MUCH faster later in gen.

Another aspect that may come into play is studios may decide they much rather wait for their next title that's further along to take much better advantage of DirectStorage on their next game by properly reorganizing their data to really take advantage of the ability to batch all their requests and then work out the most optimal way of spreading that out across all the NVMe queues available to deliver the best possible performance.

Take Forspoken, for example, those super fast loads they were doing was with all CPU decompression, but they are taking the time to far better optimize for Direct Storage. In fact, even without DirectStorage their load times are just extremely fast due to the amount of work they put in to improve load time in that game. They also clearly mention having some tricks where the game already begins loading from the title screens in order to make the game ready even faster. So Forspoken begins loading literally before you even think it's in a position to start the process.

SFS supposedly still showing little to no use 2+ years (from MS's own devs too) in is also not really good if it were true as it would make the point of those that did not use GPU area to implement it even stronger. By the time it would be a big differentiator you have very very mature techniques that may minimise them impact and you have next generation consoles not far around the corner (or we could say that it was overhyped instead of the greatest thing ever that 2+ years after launch, so 3 years or more after internal devs were exposed to it, nobody is still using).

Not many of Microsoft's existing first party studios have actually released their next gen only games yet. Much of what's already been released already:

Halo Infinite
Psychonauts 2
Forza Horizon 5
Flight Simulator
Gears Tactics (a coalition/splash damage collab)

were all fairly far into development, probably well past the stage where they could entertain a change as big as Sampler Feedback. Sampler Feedback Streaming is something which needs to be properly implemented into the game engine. it's actually a much bigger undertaking than simply using DirectStorage. Even Scorn that's releasing soon has already confirmed Sampler Feedback Streaming isn't in their game. Nothing should be all that surprising that it's more likely to be year 3-4 and beyond titles that really take advantage of this stuff. I'm pretty sure things like DirectStorage and Sampler Feedback Streaming are another reason Microsoft has been buying studios and popular IP. They want to accelerate the adoption across not just Xbox but PC.

So it's way too soon to claim anything has been overhyped when most of the truly next

The best point is that if you were trying to make an argument on how minimum specs hold stronger devices back (in this case it is partially because these engines are still cross generation ones built for older devices and scaled) and how cross generation is not great for actual users who jumped on the new HW (and overall slowing down the console transition just makes things worse for everyone)… well your post succeeds at doing that .

It's always been a fact that it would be a while before we truly see what these consoles can do with their next-gen IO architectures as more games with engines are fully built around them. What we are seeing right now is mostly games that are still built on previous gen capabilities and thinking, just with higher quality graphics, high resolution textures, higher rendering resolutions, 60fps etc. Hell, we still haven't fully stepped away from last gen console CPUs as the baseline yet. There is a crap ton more left in the CPUs on PS5 and Series X.

 

[00_Zer0]

Speeds up decompression of assets for windows and xbox. Basically faster loading.

I am interested in this, as Unreal 4 is notorious for janky skips and stutters when loading in new assets or areas. I recently bought Stray, an Unreal 4 engine game, and even at modest 1440p settings on my modest PC{3700X, RX 5700 XT, 32 gigs ram}, the frame time goes crazy when loading into new areas and were horrendous in this game. Unfortunately, even though I have a required NVME SSD, I do not have a graphics card to support Direct X 12 Ultimate.

 

[nikolino840]

 

[winjer]

Bastards...

 

[Xdrive05]

^- So my GPU, OS and C:/ drive look to be ready for DirectStorage, correct? I'm on the PCIe 3.0 spec, but my Samsung 970 Evo Plus does fully saturate that spec at 3.5Gbps read and write at least while the cache is in play which I think it always will be for games, right?

And, bummer, so the Scorn devs are now saying the PC version will NOT be the first PC game to use DirectStorage?

 

[Tarin02543]

so it would be foolish to upgrade to raptor lake just for the merits of direct storage?

 

[skit_data]

Soo…

Are the Series consoles still not using DirectStorage? I could've sworn it was reiterated on this forum just a month ago.

 

[Mr Moose]

Soo…

Are the Series consoles still not using DirectStorage? I could've sworn it was reiterated on this forum just a month ago.

This thread is about it being used on PC, Series consoles use it already.

 

[twilo99]

^- So my GPU, OS and C:/ drive look to be ready for DirectStorage, correct? I'm on the PCIe 3.0 spec, but my Samsung 970 Evo Plus does fully saturate that spec at 3.5Gbps read and write at least while the cache is in play which I think it always will be for games, right?

And, bummer, so the Scorn devs are now saying the PC version will NOT be the first PC game to use DirectStorage?

Are you on Win11?

I'm still on 10 on my gaming machine and its showing OS not supported ... I thought they said 10 will support it as well?

 

[DeepEnigma]

This thread is about it being used on PC, Series consoles use it already.

There are people in this very thread that claim it's not being used yet on the consoles.

 

[skit_data]

This thread is about it being used on PC, Series consoles use it already.

Yeah, I know but some people here have claimed it's not even being used on the Series consoles

 

[Mr Moose]

There are people in this very thread that claim it's not being used yet on the consoles.

Those people would be wrong.

DirectStorage – DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S and we plan to bring it to Windows as well.

Late last year, we announced that we would be bringing DirectStorage to Windows PCs, and in June, we told the world how DirectStorage would improve the gaming experience on Windows 11. Since then, the DirectX team has been hard at work bringing this state-of-the-art tech from Xbox's Velocity Architecture over to Windows, empowering game developers on both platforms to create new immersive gaming experiences with vastly reduced load times.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Those people would be wrong.

The way MS was marketing it with its very own trademark name, it would be silly that 2 years in and it still hasn't been used yet.

 

[Xdrive05]

Are you on Win11?

I'm still on 10 on my gaming machine and its showing OS not supported ... I thought they said 10 will support it as well?

Yeah, Windows 11. And my GPU is a 3050 8GB. From what I've heard, Windows 10 DOES support it, but it's not "IO optimized" in the same way that 11 is.

What's your GPU that it just says "supported" and not "optimized"?

 

[twilo99]

Yeah, Windows 11. And my GPU is a 3050 8GB. From what I've heard, Windows 10 DOES support it, but it's not "IO optimized" in the same way that 11 is.

What's your GPU that it just says "supported" and not "optimized"?

6800xt but I am guessing it my say that for the same reason so I'll probably just upgrade to win11

 

[Tripolygon]

Update:

There was a misunderstanding on my behalf and I made an error on my response here. To confirm, Direct Storage is only available via Xbox! I apologise for the confusion.

There are people in this very thread that claim it's not being used yet on the consoles.

Those people are wrong. It's been on Xbox since day 1. What is even more interesting is that Direct Storage on Xbox is different from Direct Storage on PC.

 

[kikii]

6800xt but I am guessing it my say that for the same reason so I'll probably just upgrade to win11

"Only Windows 10 version 2004 (also Windows 10 May 2020 Update) or higher versions support the complete set of DirectX 12 Ultimate features."

 

[twilo99]

"Only Windows 10 version 2004 (also Windows 10 May 2020 Update) or higher versions support the complete set of DirectX 12 Ultimate features."

I have the latest version. I'll look into air and see what's up

 

[MasterCornholio]

The way MS was marketing it with its very own trademark name, it would be silly that 2 years in and it still hasn't been used yet.

That definitely isn't the case. It was available to developers even before the Series released. Whether or not they chose to implement is a different story but Microsoft did say it was being used as well as some developers.

Now if people say it's because it was broken I really haven't read anything about Directstorage being broken.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That definitely isn't the case. It was available to developers even before the Series released. Whether or not they chose to implement is a different story but Microsoft did say it was being used as well as some developers.

Now if people say it's because it was broken I really haven't read anything about Directstorage being broken.

It's shades of mistermediax, really.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's shades of mistermediax, really.

Oh I didn't the blue guy was behind all this. Makes sense then.

 

[Md Ray]

^- So my GPU, OS and C:/ drive look to be ready for DirectStorage, correct? I'm on the PCIe 3.0 spec, but my Samsung 970 Evo Plus does fully saturate that spec at 3.5Gbps read and write at least while the cache is in play which I think it always will be for games, right?

And, bummer, so the Scorn devs are now saying the PC version will NOT be the first PC game to use DirectStorage?

Where is this screenshot from?

 

[rofif]

btw I played some today.
The game is a stutter fest for me

 

[Buggy Loop]

btw I played some today.
The game is a stutter fest for me

On PC? WTF, steam deck runs it

 

[Mithos]

Where is this screenshot from?

Xbox Game Bar.

 

[rofif]

On PC? WTF, steam deck runs it

3080 but I forgot to update drivers. Using the previous version.
90+fps at 4k max. Just super stutter.
what settings on deck? gamepass?

 

[Buggy Loop]

3080 but I forgot to update drivers. Using the previous version.
90+fps at 4k max. Just super stutter.
what settings on deck? gamepass?

Sorry, not on deck but what I've read so far.

I'm on 3080 Ti right now, butter smooth. 522.25 drivers, the new ones, clean install.

Did you try mouse smoothing in menu? I found it was too twitchy by default

edit : Nevermind, was on first act so it seems like it was pretty good. I saw stuttering too. Seems like typical DX12/Unreal 4 combo of stutters.

 

[FrankieSab]

Update:


Those people are wrong. It's been on Xbox since day 1. What is even more interesting is that Direct Storage on Xbox is different from Direct Storage on PC.

It's normal, on Series consoles there is a fixed hardware they can rely on.