Lmao not how it works
Scorpio presentation pictured within AMD's Vega/Ryzen booth
- Thread starter leeh
- Start date
Lmao not how it works
And I wonder if Sony can do that for gpu why can't MS work with AMD on a CPU with Zen features????
hanspampel
Banned
so ps4 pro has already vega architecture features half a year before the gpu will be released, but xbox scorpio won't have zen architecture features half a year after the cpu will be released.
well now i get why people think scorpio won't have zen /s
yeah i know the ps4 pro alus can render in FP16 operations
just like ps4 and xbox one had some newer, not yet released on a regular discrete gpu, gnc features back in the days
but the architectural difference between xbox scorpio and ps4 pro should still be much bigger than between original ps4 and xbox one
don't get angry, but you deserve this reply for your (or hope) knock
anothertech
Member
Please not this. I'm still embarasssed about believing this stuff in the past. MS really did shoot themselves in the foot a bunch a times didn't they.
ByWatterson
Member
This feels more and more like Microsoft is trying to start the next generation.
Zen and Jaguar are completely flipping different from each other as CPU's. You can't just 'bolt on' CPU functions from completely different architectures because its the architecture that does the heavy lifting itself.
"Oh we'll take some jaguar and put a little puma in there with a hint of Zen for seasoning!"
Vega and Polaris have the benefit of being only a tier away from each other architecturally, so AMD's customers can look at the roadmap and put certain things into the GPU that would not otherwise be there.
"Oh we'll take some jaguar and put a little puma in there with a hint of Zen for seasoning!"
Vega and Polaris have the benefit of being only a tier away from each other architecturally, so AMD's customers can look at the roadmap and put certain things into the GPU that would not otherwise be there.
Because Zen is a total overhaul from Jaguar/Puma, which are low powered mobile CPU's while the former is targeting high end CPU powers while Vega is mostly efficiency and architectural changes to take advantage of HBM2. I could be way off about this, but regardless, not an apple to apple comparison.
Congratulations on being obtuse, key word being "certain features". You act as if this is something unheard of. The PS4, for instance, had 8 ACE's in the computing units akin to the newer architecture as opposed to 2 ACE's of the architecture it was mostly built upon.
anothertech
Member
I keep seeing this, and have to question: why? What feels more and more like scorpio is next gen? What does this mean?
MS has specifically stated it's an upgraded Xbone. What changed? Who exactly is making you feel like Scorpio is trying to start next gen???
a 1080p Xbox 360 would be a new generation?
Proelite
Member
If MS wanted to start a new generation and paid the money for a custom design, they could have gone with something really nice and moderately cheap in Spring 2018.
4 core 8 thread zen between 2.5 to 3ghz.
16GB HBM2 512GB/s for games.
4GB DDR4 32GB/s for OS.
~8 teraflop Vega derivative GPU.
4 core 8 thread zen between 2.5 to 3ghz.
16GB HBM2 512GB/s for games.
4GB DDR4 32GB/s for OS.
~8 teraflop Vega derivative GPU.
anothertech
Member
See, this is where I see ps5 going in 2019. Something similar anyhow.
It's also why I think Sony played their cards right timeline wise.
hanspampel
Banned
so ps4 pro has already vega architecture features half a year before the gpu will be released, but xbox scorpio won't have zen architecture features half a year after the cpu will be released.
well now i get why people think scorpio won't have zen /s
yeah i know the ps4 pro alus can render in FP16 operations
just like ps4 and xbox one had some newer, not yet released on a regular discrete gpu, gnc features back in the days
but the architectural difference between xbox scorpio and ps4 pro should still be much bigger than between original ps4 and xbox one
??
you know why i made that replay the way i did. and it has nothing to do with being obtuse
but lets get back to ontopic talk...
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
What?
"You know Xbox One, we really are the 1080p Xbox 360."
anothertech
Member
"You know PS4Pro, we really are 40% less than Scorpio"
Electret
Member
Huh? PS5 will roll out once 7nm is ready for mass production, which is looking like 2019 or 2020. 2023 is unrealistically late.
10 years in between console releases?
LOL, no. Even though I agree 2019 is too early and firmly believe a holiday 2020 release is the best case scenario, 2023 is too damn late.
Hawk269
Member
The thing I don't get is why are many of you just using the TF difference to gauge things. There is a lot more to the systems outside of the GPU TF performance number. Memory bandwidth, CPU type/speed, Memory amount and memory speed are huge factors in performance in addition to the GPU.
Gad.damn. chasing 4k is so fucking dumb. I hope both sony and ms realize theres better bang for the buck at far lower resolutions.
boujeejamboree
Member
Money never bought an ounce of time.
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This is true, but the issue is, almost everyone of us here are running around with assumptions because Microsoft hasn't revealed much. But above all else, GPU grunt is the main factor for all the bells and whistles. Generally, memory amount and bandwidth aren't hindering any of the current gen consoles (Wii U aside) substantially unlike last gen. It will greatly help when rendering at extremely high resolutions such as 4K, though, which is what the Scorpio seems to be going for. As for CPU, Microsoft hasn't confirmed anything, but since the console is packing a 6TFlops GPU and CPU has little to do with resolutions, it is very likely that Jaguar/Puma will remain, to keep costs and power consumption down.
TL
R; GPU is by far the largest contributor to eye candy, so obviously it's getting by far the most attentionThat's all they can do. Developers are making games for PS4 and XB1. They arent going to make completely different games like its a new gen because Scorpio and Pro came out. Therefore what can be updated and improved is going to be limited
Since some people were giving out some estimates for future hardware, i'm guessing PS5 in fall 2019 will have
16GB HBM Plus at 500+GBs(HBM2 in that form factor is untenable, HBM3 and HBM+ are the future of high bandwidth memory)
10tflops GPU
Semi custom Zen 8core CPU with 16 threads
PeterLegend
Member
I don't expect the differences to be that big, considering if it is still using Jaguar cores lol.
The problem is this bullshit inctemental upgrade shit. Scorpio as a new console WOULD be a meaningful upgrade. Unlike some, im not in denial. Fuck chasing 4k.
Primethius
Banned
I think this is going to be a problem that MS will have (that Sony also had with some users) and it's that despite the relatively large power gap between the Pro and the Scorpio, for a 1080p TV owner (like me for example), the difference in IQ between two games downscaled from a higher image aren't going to be big. Especially taking into account the actual power differential.
This post makes me want to type my predictions again, but I feel like I've done it so many times that I'm starting to feel long winded, haha. I'm actually thinking about making a thread where we predict next gen console hardware later this year, after the release of Vega, Ryzen and Nvidia's equivalents.
anothertech
Member
I absolutely expect ps5 to be launched Holliday 2019.
Hbm2, zen, huge gpu upgrade will all be ready by then. 2022/23 will be PS5 Pro my friend
Yup. It's what the threads about after all. Let's face it, if the Scorpio does have Zen and 12GB of GDDR5X, it will blow it out of the water.
PeterLegend
Member
With a starting price of $499 or higher, I'd love to see that lol...
Of course, but even though I believe MS is going to end up positioning this thing as a "new" generation (no matter what they are saying now, I think MS is going to end up distancing themselves from the Xbox "One" name)...It's not a power leap to the point where it's going to make games that push the Pro hardware look "last gen"
It's going to be the place to go for the best looking console games until the PS5 launches, that's for sure though...However, the closer this thing gets to full on Zen nd Vega hardware the more the price goes up...And that worries me. A $499, $549, or $599 price tag is a scary thing for consoles...
Unfortunately, the initial handling of the Xbone pushed me towards owning a single file console this gen so far, so I'm going to hold off for the PS5
Hawk269
Member
This is true, but the issue is, almost everyone of us here are running around with assumptions because Microsoft hasn't revealed much. But above all else, GPU grunt is the main factor for all the bells and whistles. Generally, memory amount and bandwidth aren't hindering any of the current gen consoles (Wii U aside) substantially unlike last gen. It will greatly help when rendering at extremely high resolutions such as 4K, though, which is what the Scorpio seems to be going for. As for CPU, Microsoft hasn't confirmed anything, but since the console is packing a 6TFlops GPU and CPU has little to do with resolutions, it is very likely that Jaguar/Puma will remain, to keep costs and power consumption down.
TL
I agree up until the bolded. The only reason I say this is if what Phil stated at E3, High Fidelity VR. No way would a Jaguar/Puma be enough to do high fidelity VR. I have a PSVR and a lot of stuff looks pretty bad, poor resolution, poor IQ etc. versus a Vive or Oculus it is a big difference and no way could those older CPU's handle that. I am not suggesting ZEN will be in the box, but something "other" than Jag/Puma will need to be used unless they back track on the high fidelity VR line.
anothertech
Member
The issue is there is absolutely nothing pointing to this being the case, except tales from my @ss.
On the contrary all evidence points to the opposite.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
2023 before PS5? The industry would collapse, or leave Sony behind.
Heh, if Microsoft is sticking with AMD, there is no in between as far as I know. Zen is the next (gigantic) step from Jaguar/Puma.
But what does "high fidelity" really mean? I mean this is the same company touting things like "uncompressed pixels" and shit like that...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Scorpio vs Pro be similar to Pro vs PS4 in vs/DF threads right now? 6 vs 4.2flops, 4.2 vs 1.8 flops right?
I wouldn't expect the comments to be that bad.
Carrizo is the successor to jaguar and last of the apu based on bulldozer architecture before Zen. It has higher ipc and better clocks than jaguar while being better on power.
At this point, I'm not sure what those who think some of us are "downplaying the difference" expects us to say. Everyone in this thread has acknowledged that 1.8 TFlops in absolute terms or 43% in percentages is a significant boost in favour of Scorpio. And like I said earlier, this will contribute to differences such as the Pro rendering at native 1800p while Scorpio renders at native 4K, which roughly makes up for the differences in power. Permit me to be blunt, but I feel those who ride on this downplay bandwagon are salty that the XB1 was the underdog at the beginning of the generation and now want the Pro to be treated the same way. I don't understand, it's not the same situation.
Sounds neat, but will it even be ready for mass production by the end of the year?
hanspampel
Banned
yeah. ps5 release between 2019 and 2021 is believeable
sony can't and won't run 6 years from now without new hardware, lol
no. already 1/5 of all tvs sold in the us last year were 4k
https://twitter.com/npdtech/status/817165043108298752
this number will likely grow close to 50% this year. the huge 4k hype happened just in late 2016. and 4k still managed 19% share for the full year
12gb gddr5 ram is only 50% more expensive than 8gb (used in the ps4 slim)
and the costs for zen or whatever cpu architecture used will be determined by diespace
Hawk269
Member
Well, I would think high fidelity is high resolution. But Phil did not spell out what he means by high fidelity. To me, I took it as high resolution and in looking at the differences between the PSVR and the Rift/Vive, resolution is a huge differential between console VR and PC VR.
Harmondale
Member
Chobel
Member
Resolution has nothing to do with the CPU.
Carrizo apus have been out since 2015 and are in laptops today. Nothing new but still a improvement over what's in ps4 pro.
LOL, my bad, I never even heard of those APU's, thanks for the info! Seems like Jaguar gets all the attention because it's in the consoles
hanspampel
Banned
yes. if the scorpio cpu is not based on zen architecture, the only other reasonable option is excavator
to use jaguar again in scorpio, or even the puma refresh, would be the biggest Xbox fail and missmanagement ranked close to RROD and Kinect 2.0
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