KDash31987
Member
I don't think there was. I prefer A to run myself, though.
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Sega Dreamcast - Appreciation and Emulation Thread
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
kunonabi
Member
yeah, I can't stand that setup since i find it slower and a little awkward for speed runs.
On a more positive note, I'm heading to Japan in a couple of weeks and I plan on doing some game collecting while I'm there. Dreamcast isn't going to be my focus but I may pick up some stuff since it would be a crime not to take advantage import markup fees. The big thing on my list is a couple of Dreamcast Twin sticks for virtual on. I'm also considering the following:
Sakura Taisen 1- 4
El Dorado Gate 1-7
deSPIRIA
Dream Studio
Fighting Vipers 2
Hundred Swords
Super Street Fighter II X for matching service
Blue Submarine No.6 Time & Tide
Sentimental Graffiti 2
Puyo Puyo 4
Yuu Suzuki Game Works Volume 1
Lack Of Love
any thoughts on any of these?
So I've been playing a Dreamcast launch title and here are some of my thoughts.
From FGW thread:
It is well documented that the DC port of VF3tb was outsourced to Genki, and not handled by AM2. I wonder if this explains the omission of command training, which was so nice to see in Fighters Megamix. Maybe it's my disc (I did just have it resurfaced after the much younger me let it get all scratched up), but Training mode has no music. The silence is super distracting. It is nice that I can change the button mapping, but it seems silly that I have to map P+K+G and K+G to the triggers - they should be the default layout, since those combinations are impossible when holding the controller regularly.
From FGW thread:
For VF3tb the analog stick isn't even an option - you MUST use the d-pad. Couple this with the fact that this was a launch title so people didn't have sticks (when did the agetec stick drop?) and that it launched alongside the prettier, pad-friendly Soul Calibur and it's no wonder 3tb doesn't have the legacy of 2 or 4.
That said, the core game is really cool. Noodling around in training mode with the COM set to max level reveals that 3tb is much faster than 2, and it seems to me it's even faster than 4 and 4EVO.
VF3 and VF3tb are the only games in the series that ditch the 3 button scheme for a 4 button layout, adding an Evade button that would later be replaced by just pressing up and down to step into and out of the screen, respectively. This feels strange, and I think that I dislike it - still, with the addition of a sidestep VF becomes a true 3D fighter (previously the only way to move on the Z axis was to roll from a knockdown).
But, it'll be lost to time - even if the game gets a digital rerelease, it somehow hasn't aged as well as VF2 did. Blame that on 2 being more stylized while 3 attempting to look more realistic, maybe?
It is well documented that the DC port of VF3tb was outsourced to Genki, and not handled by AM2. I wonder if this explains the omission of command training, which was so nice to see in Fighters Megamix. Maybe it's my disc (I did just have it resurfaced after the much younger me let it get all scratched up), but Training mode has no music. The silence is super distracting. It is nice that I can change the button mapping, but it seems silly that I have to map P+K+G and K+G to the triggers - they should be the default layout, since those combinations are impossible when holding the controller regularly.
Genki had a lot of former AM2 members, that's why they were picked by Sega to do the job. There isn't a command training because they were given 6 months to port the game with incomplete dev tools so they had no time for extras (the Japanese version doesn't have a versus mode). Given the circumstances they did a great job.
I don't disagree, but it's too bad the port had to suffer these circumstances as the popularity of VF 2 and 4 seems due to, in part, the quality of their home conversions.
VF3tb on Dreamcast is a closer port than VF2 is on Saturn and VF4 is on PS2 but it certainly could have done with more home modes I agree. It was a victim of the rushed Dreamcast launch in Japan and by the time it came out in the west, Soul Calibur was also available with its amazing mission battle.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Saturn VF2's biggest strength to the general market was that it was a technical marvel for its era. It just looks so much better than its console contemporaries. Whether it was more or less accurate to its arcade counterpart is almost beside the point. And VF4's training and kumite/quest modes were pretty big deals.
VF3 is the only entry in the series of which I don't own a copy because I was too enamored by Soul Calibur at the time to care. That game was rented once, then forgotten.
VF3 is the only entry in the series of which I don't own a copy because I was too enamored by Soul Calibur at the time to care. That game was rented once, then forgotten.
sixteen-bit
Member
i still wish we saw VF3 Saturn, lol.
True
Also true
When 3tb was consolized the VF3 series was already 4 years old, and with 3D technology developing as quickly as it did in the 90's that made the game almost ancient by the time it came out. I'm very, very interested in seeing what VF3 Saturn was - but realistically the game would need a drastic downgrade to even run, let alone operate at the standard 60fps. It's a game that missed its window, what hope did it have in the West?
But I still wish it came bundled with a Saturn pad
Is the regular AV output on the Dreamcast just kinda bad or something?
I just bought S-Video cables for both my Saturn and my Dreamcast. While I clearly get an improvement over composite with both systems, my Saturn just looks noticeably better on an apples-to-apples comparison. It was like my Dreamcast with S-Video looked almost the same as Saturn on compositie..
I just bought S-Video cables for both my Saturn and my Dreamcast. While I clearly get an improvement over composite with both systems, my Saturn just looks noticeably better on an apples-to-apples comparison. It was like my Dreamcast with S-Video looked almost the same as Saturn on compositie..
Vga Dreamcast is god-tier. I suggest looking into a vga box. Night and day to composite.
Is S-Video out of the VGA box going to look any better than S-Video coming right out of the Dreamcast?
VGA is not really going to work with my setup. I have about 10 consoles plugged into the same TV and so everything needs to be standardized so that everything works with the switchboxes. What I really need is S-Video.
IrishNinja
Member
thing about VGA is you find out which games work better as burns, because they're VGA patched: Soul Calibur, Dino Crisis, Ikaruga etc. what's weird is im not getting Hoyle Casino to play, despite the compatibility list showing it should.
ss_lemonade
Member
I remember seeing screenshots of it in a gaming magazine before, though my memory is kind of hazy and its possible I may be confusing it with Fighters Megamix screenshots lol
My Soul Calibur and Ikaruga originals work fine in VGA. I have to keep the RGB cable around also for Dino Crisis, Gunbird 2, Bangaio and various other fighters and shooters which is all a bit messy but given how great Dreamcast games still look it's easily forgiven! Dreamcast's native VGA output really puts to shame the three consoles that came after.
Probably FM; there isn't a single screenshot out there of VF3 Saturn. Legend has it that only a select few got to see it behind closed doors and they signed a strict NDA. Yu Suzuki has never answered any questions about it when interviewed so it has remained shrouded in secrecy.
IrishNinja
Member
ah, it'll work but does it put out VGA natively? I thought it was like Ikaruga in that it had to be patched for that res.
and how do you get RGB out of your setup?
Nope no problems at all with either Soul Calibur or Ikaruga in VGA and they aren't CD-Rs. My SC is Japanese if that makes a difference.
I just swap from VGA to RGB SCART and use my CRT.
Nothing fancy.
IrishNinja
Member
ah, figured...if DC does right outta the box maybe i'll just grab a SCART RGB cable & alternate per game instead of buying a hanzo then.
and i guess the VGA compatibility page is lying to me, then?
and i guess the VGA compatibility page is lying to me, then?
IrishNinja
Member
^if it is, i haven't seen a copy yet, heh. kills me too, i know some people prefer 1 but 2 is some great 4p madness
honestly, capcom's scene on DC is one of the worst rises...cannons spike is insane, giga wing 1/2 is up there, even third strike is more than i'd want it to be. sucks.
honestly, capcom's scene on DC is one of the worst rises...cannons spike is insane, giga wing 1/2 is up there, even third strike is more than i'd want it to be. sucks.
IrishNinja
Member
i caught a few on amazon/ebay for okay deals, but most of the good ones i pulled this year were from forums, honestly. starting to seem like they're about the only venue for really good bundles, unless you luck out with craigslist in your area.
sixteen-bit
Member
Don't know if I agree with that. Gamecube had phenomenal image quality over component.
Are you only interested in US copies? The Japanese version is much cheaper & easy to get a hold of. And has better cover art IMO
sixteen-bit
Member
poster says a couple posts down they're looking to build an NTSC collection, but hey technically that doesn't exclude Japan!
dreamcastfan
Member
I haven't played VF3TB in quite some time.. Weren't the backgrounds more impressive on VF3 than SC?
parappatherapper
Member
stupid question time yayyyy
^ive got the above VGA box, hooked into an HDMI converter (for now, waiting on Kenzai), then hooked into my mini - which means Bangai-O does not work. as i understand it, if i hook an s-vid cable in (audio's already going since VGA doesn't carry that, natch), theoretically my system should recognize that & display over s-vid for that title, gonna try it in a bit. question is: pretty much every other game i have supports VGA, or at least doesn't mind it. are these things really good for detecting signals, or should i only plug in said s-vid cable for said title? cause if so, i'm tagging that fucking cable GODDAMMIT, TREASURE
I use mine VGA > VGA and have managed to get Bangio-o to boot by starting with RGB cables in the box then switching to VGA when the disk spins up (or something similar) - there are guides on the net but its a shame as this is about the only game worth playing that doesn't support VGA
sixteen-bit
Member
They were certainly more complex with different terrain, slopes, etc. In comparison, each SC level was just a flat island of varying shape and size.
certainly. For a laugh try flipping the raft in Shun's stage by jumping up and down with Taka.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
The Xbox's output over the component box is fantastic, too. The VGA box kicks the shit out of the PS2's video, but that's about it.
sixteen-bit
Member
Yeah, PS2's video output was muddy ass, lol.
I have Gamecube component cables and while the picture quality is good, it can't touch VGA.
I don't rate Xbox's component out at all. The colours are nowhere near as vibrant and arcade-like as the Dreamcast's VGA out.
PS2 looks great via RGB SCART on a CRT.
If your HDTV or monitor can support 15khz as well as 31khz via VGA I think you can use the Hanzo for everything and that would be the ultimate no fuss Dreamcast setup.
Which part?
EddieGordoAF
Banned
I always thought Dreamcast looked better than PS2. DC looked way more vibrant even without the VGA box.
Anyway, has anyone seen this VGA box? Do you think it is good? Or should I get one with a hdmi converter if there is one?
Anyway, has anyone seen this VGA box? Do you think it is good? Or should I get one with a hdmi converter if there is one?
That's probably, more likely than not, your TV rather than the actual DC. Most TV's have a really clean output through VGA because they expect some people to use them to view word documents and such with small text on their TV. As such VGA connections usually look really good from every source.
You don't want that.
Just do a search for "dreamcast vga" on ebay or spend a little more and buy a Hanzo.
It's not just that, VGA is RGB and is completely native to the system (and is also the output the Naomi uses). It's a pure signal with no conversion, no compression. For analogue video VGA is hands down the best.
EddieGordoAF
Banned
They have another one which I believe someone posted earlier.
Is it good? If not I'll try what you said. Thanks. The Hanzo sounds really good.
That's a good VGA box yes, I have personal experience with it.
If you don't need the extras the Hanzo has then go for that one.RGB is better than YPbPr, but barely. So little so that you shouldn't notice a difference in motion and it should take close scrutiny under stills to notice the difference. Just google VGA vs YPbPr for the Xbox 360 to see. If a gamecube and a dreamcast are both put through the same upscaler, the IQ of both should be nigh on identical.
I really could not disagree more and I am not up for a drawn out argument over it so we'll have to agree to disagree.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
IrishNinja
Member
Are you only interested in US copies? The Japanese version is much cheaper & easy to get a hold of. And has better cover art IMO
i'm totally gonna end up getting several of those capcom games JP, yeah. you're right, it's a bit cheaper (though not by much on some of them, i wanna say?), still trying to find someone to either do region free bios or chip my DC though.
how does this work out for you? i was reading even if you get it going it only shows in a corner or is glitchy.
been meaning to ask:
1) is 15khz vs 31 the difference between VGA & RGB or am i understanding it wrong? i have many RGB setups going right now
2) that VGA box i showed earlier, what's the switch on it do?
3) yeah again you're prolly right, i was debating just going RGB for DC but waiting on the Kenzai to see what bundle it brings, if i could have a hanzo > kenzai > XRGB setup allowing me to switch from VGA to RGB on the fly/as needed that would indeed be the best.
1. No. 15khz VGA is low res (240p) while 31khz VGA is high res (480p). VGA is RGB (plus horizontal and vertical sync).
2. It switches between VGA and S-video/composite output (if you have those cables plugged into the VGA box). It's handy for tricking games that don't support 31khz VGA despite seemingly having no problems once past the initial check (you don't need to have cables plugged into the box to do this).
3. RGB SCART looks fantastic on Dreamcast but there aren't that many 240p games and 480p looks a lot better than 480i so it's a bit of a waste if you only want to use one cable.
For sure, it's case by case. Gunspike is expensive everywhere, the one game I should have bought sooner.
For playing import games, the /vast/ bulk of games can be played either with the freely available to burn Utopia bootdisc or a GamesharkDX.
Does anyone know offhand which Japanese DC games came in the slightly larger 12mm jewel cases vs the regular 10.4mm cd jewel cases? I need to replace a Sonic Adventure 2 case & want to buy a cheap throwaway game to get the case as there's no easy way to buy 'em over here in the US that I can tell.
Still looking for PAL cases too. Stupid custom cases.
Still looking for PAL cases too. Stupid custom cases.
IrishNinja
Member
^thank you EmiPrime, gonna go mess with that switch now! i honestly forgot it was there, let's see what all i can get around.
man, those PAL ones can be huge! just got Ecco and it's nearly as big as Shenmue 2, haha.
also i totally have JP sonic adventure 2 and yeah, it's slightly wider than the others. JP 1 is the same size as everything else though.
man, those PAL ones can be huge! just got Ecco and it's nearly as big as Shenmue 2, haha.
also i totally have JP sonic adventure 2 and yeah, it's slightly wider than the others. JP 1 is the same size as everything else though.
sixteen-bit
Member
Culdcept 2 has once of those wider cases. Hardly a cheap throwaway game though, lol.
I want to say Guilty Gear X has a wider case too. I'll check when I get home. That game should be real cheap.
GGX is still over $15 on ebay these days. I'm wanting a couple of bucks + shipping cheap
Like a cheap audiovisual novel game, dream passport, get bass cheap It's all kind of ridiculous, but I want to get Sonic Adventure 2 back in a proper case
Same with my 'good' PAL Dreamcast games like Rez etc. Should never have thrown away those cases.Diablohead
Member
I need to replace my VGA box with a better quality one, the slight lines in a crisp picture are annoying the fuck out of me now, something to do with part of the vga box being unshielded or something, no idea what part needs fixing otherwise I'd do something about it myself.
Too many different models on ebay, is there a solid yet good price box I can buy in the UK?
Too many different models on ebay, is there a solid yet good price box I can buy in the UK?