Support NeoGAF

[A Black Falcon]

Was Tomb Raider really that much worse than PS1? I've never really gotten that far in the first game, but came across the the Saturn version for cheap.

Tomb Raider actually started development on Saturn first, since Core had been a strong supporter of the Genesis and Sega CD, and they added more platforms during development... so no, it's not much worse. They did a good job with the Saturn version. For instance, because it was Saturn-first, the game benefits from using quads, instead of being held back by them.

 

[Kolma]

For use on my actual Saturn.
I was curious for those with fight sticks.
Which is better?
The ASCII stick or the Virtua Stick.
I like the ball on stick style better but I heard it wears down one the virtua stick from too many z motions.
But I prefer the clicking of the ASCII stick.
Also which one has better feeling buttons?
For those wondering this would mostly be used on X-men vs Street Fighter and Metal Slug
I do have other fighting games as well such as Virtua Fighter, Fighting Vipers, and Vampire Savior: The Lord of Vampire.

Any opinion on either will help, thanks.

also for those wondering this is the current hookup I have for it
(using a cheap scart to component adapter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Bx1aE7a_Y

Thanks again!

 

[sixteen-bit]

There are different versions of the Virtua Stick. If it's the HSS-0136, then go with that. Especially the early version that has a Seimitsu LS-56 lever.
Buttons are just okay; not arcade spec like the lever.

 

[oneida]

There are different versions of the Virtua Stick. If it's the HSS-0136, then go with that. Especially the early version that has a Seimitsu LS-56 lever.
Buttons are just okay; not arcade spec like the lever.

is the early version distinguishable?

 

[sixteen-bit]

is the early version distinguishable?

I don't know offhand unfortunately. When I get the chance I'll look for identifying marks like engraved characters on the metal base assuming it's like the VSHG.

 

[Kolma]

There are different versions of the Virtua Stick. If it's the HSS-0136, then go with that. Especially the early version that has a Seimitsu LS-56 lever.
Buttons are just okay; not arcade spec like the lever.

This is the stick
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002SVRC/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[sixteen-bit]

This is the stick
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002SVRC/?tag=neogaf0e-20

That's definitely NOT the HSS-0136. That one you linked looks pretty cheap and chintzy to be honest.

 

[MikeHattsu]

This is the stick
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002SVRC/?tag=neogaf0e-20

That's the MK-80112 stick. Same as the Japanese HSS-0104.

 

[Genesis Knight]

PSA: The American Virtua Stick and the Japanese Virtua Stick HSS-0136 are different animals. The American one is awful.

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

Cross post from ironically the NES appreciation thread where someone wanted an example of S-Video vs. RGB. The following are 3 (2D) games on the system and how they compare between the two video outputs.

S-Video (LEFT) vs. RGB (RIGHT)

Sonic Jam:


Rockman 8:


Keio Flying Squadron 2:


As you can see S-Video does an admirable job picture wise. But the colors are a bit darker as they are chroma based, where as RGB gives true color separation so the colors are richer and better defined. So you can't go wrong either way, as long as you stay far away from RF and composite! But it has to be said, RGB does give the best possible picture.

Saturn has a serious good S-Video encoder there.

 

[oneida]

This is the stick
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002SVRC/?tag=neogaf0e-20

do not buy this.

 

[Kolma]

alright then, what are the thoughts on this stick?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004SW0Q/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Khaz]

Saturn has a serious good S-Video encoder there.

S-Video is naturally good, it's the next best thing if you can't use RGB on your TV. Having separate Luminance and Chrominance helps a lot in not having colour crosstalk etc. Chrominance carries two colour signal so there is still potential overlap but it's minimal in reality. The next step from S-Video is Component, which separates the two Pb and Pr in two separate cables, negating any potential crostalk. They're both miles ahead from Composite.

Unless you derive S-video from Composite, which is really bad design (the NES does it), S-video is processed directly from the internal RGB and should give naturally really good results.

 

[Genesis Knight]

alright then, what are the thoughts on this stick?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004SW0Q/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Sucks. No microswitches or levers. Just crap.

 

[oneida]

alright then, what are the thoughts on this stick?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004SW0Q/?tag=neogaf0e-20

the two sticks you should consider are the HORI SS and the aforementioned HSS-0136

the SS is relatively inexpensive, I've seen it go for ~$25-$30

otherwise stick to the Saturn pad imo

 

[sixteen-bit]

If you have any PS2 sticks, another option would be to get the tototek adapter. Love using my HRAP2 on my Saturn, only problem is the default button mapping is pretty silly.

 

[Kolma]

Thanks for the suggestion guys!
Will probably just wait till a low priced Hori SS pops up on amazon

 

[oneida]

Thanks for the suggestion guys!
Will probably just wait till a low priced Hori SS pops up on amazon

This will never happen, just buy it on eBay.

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

S-Video is naturally good, it's the next best thing if you can't use RGB on your TV. Having separate Luminance and Chrominance helps a lot in not having colour crosstalk etc. Chrominance carries two colour signal so there is still potential overlap but it's minimal in reality. The next step from S-Video is Component, which separates the two Pb and Pr in two separate cables, negating any potential crostalk. They're both miles ahead from Composite.

Unless you derive S-video from Composite, which is really bad design (the NES does it), S-video is processed directly from the internal RGB and should give naturally really good results.

Being an analog signal, the quality of the electronics and IC's affects IQ a lot. Color resolution loss was inevitable comparing it to RGB, but that Saturn is doing a great job not adding artifacts and noise common to cheap consumer devices.

Usual difference between RGB and S-Video is more like this shot:

 

[ZealousD]

Do you guys know if Puzzle Bobble 2X and Bust-A-Move 2 Arcade Edition are the exact same game? The Wikipedia article isn't that clear...

 

[A Black Falcon]

Do you guys know if Puzzle Bobble 2X and Bust-A-Move 2 Arcade Edition are the exact same game? The Wikipedia article isn't that clear...

If you're talking about the Saturn version of BAM2, yes, the US and Japanese versions are, as far as I know, the same.

If you're talking about the Saturn version versus versions of BAM2 on other consoles, no, they are not the same -- the Saturn version has several exclusive features. First its' got an alternate puzzle set for puzzle mode with arranged puzzle layouts, so there are two full puzzle modes in this game, and second it's got a puzzle editor, so you can create your own puzzles like you can in some later BAM titles. Oddly Saturn BAM3 doesn't have a puzzle editor, I'm pretty sure. On the PS1 and N64 it's exactly the opposite -- BAM2 doesn't have an editor on those platforms, while BAM3/'99 does have one.

 

[baphomet]

So what's the name of the import game that is a 3d shooter where you transform from a robot to a ship or something. You are a sprite, but you're flying around a 3d city.

Looks fun.

 

[oneida]

So what's the name of the import game that is a 3d shooter where you transform from a robot to a ship or something. You are a sprite, but you're flying around a 3d city.

Looks fun.

bulk slash

 

[baphomet]

bulk slash

You are the man. Thanks a bunch

 

[IrishNinja]

just got my copy of Chase HQ in the other day, this game's pretty fun! i managed to glitch out on the 2nd level boss though, gonna try again soon. also my copy of Elevator Action Returns showed up back by the UK seller recently so we're trying again, man i hope it gets here soon.

do not buy this.

i know sixteen bit and others say this, but these non-clicky first party sticks are fine for my needs, personally

 

[sixteen-bit]

Bulk Slash is so cool.

 

[Mercutio]

Thanks for the suggestion guys!
Will probably just wait till a low priced Hori SS pops up on amazon

The HSS-0136 is pretty common on Yahoo Auctions Japan. And generally quite cheap.

You could also consider getting an el cheapo Madcatz, and replacing the innards with the MC Cthulhu. That works fantastically with the Saturn, and the cables are very easy to make or have made for you.

 

[Khaz]

With such converter, you can pretty much use any stick you fancy on your Saturn.
http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=52

 

[oneida]

With such converter, you can pretty much use any stick you fancy on your Saturn.
http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=52

I support the Tototek converter

 

[sixteen-bit]

The button mapping on the tototek adapter is straight-up dildoes, but otherwise, yeah it's nice.

 

[Ms. Tea]

The button mapping on the tototek adapter is straight-up dildoes, but otherwise, yeah it's nice.

Yeah, that's the reason I haven't picked one up. :/ With my stick's button layout, I wouldn't actually be able to play Vampire Savior using it.

 

[oneida]

FWIW, the three face buttons of the VF4 stick - square, X and O - are mapped to A B and C respectively. so if you play shmups it's rather good.

 

[Mr. Virus]

New Saturn owner here . Anyone got any recommendations game wise? Got Panzer Dragoon Zwei on the way at least.

(PAL region stuff ideally)

 

[ResidentDante]

New Saturn owner here . Anyone got any recommendations game wise? Got Panzer Dragoon Zwei on the way at least.

(PAL region stuff ideally)

Welcome to the Saturn club, I'm new to it myself. It seems that modding your Saturn to play all the Japanese only 2D gems is the way to go, but if you prefer not to touch the PAL console (like myself). I've got a few games that I found fairly cheap on ebay:

-Sonic Jam: Compilation of Sonic 1-3 + Knuckles made specifically for the Saturn.
-Sega Ages Volume 1 (there is only the volume 1 in Europe): Has Outrun, Afterburner 2 and Space Harrier in arcade perfect condition with 60 fps!
-Virtua Fighter 2: Still holds well up today, though you could get the arcade perfect version on 360/PS3.
-Sega Rally: fun and good conversion of the arcade classic.

I'm not very into 2D fighters but there are many great ones and I'm sure people here will give you tips about them.

 

[oneida]

New Saturn owner here . Anyone got any recommendations game wise? Got Panzer Dragoon Zwei on the way at least.

(PAL region stuff ideally)

stuff I've been thinking about lately

Virtua Fighter 2
Last Bronx
Darius Gaiden
Shining Force III
Street Fighter Collection
Virtual On
Sonic Jam

 

[Mr. Virus]

Welcome to the Saturn club, I'm new to it myself. It seems that modding your Saturn to play all the Japanese only 2D gems is the way to go, but if you prefer not to touch the PAL console (like myself). I've got a few games that I found fairly cheap on ebay:

-Sonic Jam: Compilation of Sonic 1-3 + Knuckles made specifically for the Saturn.
-Sega Ages Volume 1 (there is only the volume 1 in Europe): Has Outrun, Afterburner 2 and Space Harrier in arcade perfect condition with 60 fps!
-Virtua Fighter 2: Still holds well up today, though you could get the arcade perfect version on 360/PS3.
-Sega Rally: fun and good conversion of the arcade classic.

I'm not very into 2D fighters but there are many great ones and I'm sure people here will give you tips about them.

Been eying up Sonic Jam (in spite of owning them all across multiple formats) and VF2, as I had some fun with it back in the day .

stuff I've been thinking about lately

Virtua Fighter 2
Last Bronx
Darius Gaiden
Shining Force III
Street Fighter Collection
Virtual On
Sonic Jam

Wish I had the money for Shining Force 3 ha ha! Bust shall have a look, cheers .

 

[Khaz]

Welcome to the Saturn club, I'm new to it myself. It seems that modding your Saturn to play all the Japanese only 2D gems is the way to go, but if you prefer not to touch the PAL console (like myself). I've got a few games that I found fairly cheap on ebay:

-Sonic Jam: Compilation of Sonic 1-3 + Knuckles made specifically for the Saturn.
-Sega Ages Volume 1 (there is only the volume 1 in Europe): Has Outrun, Afterburner 2 and Space Harrier in arcade perfect condition with 60 fps!
-Virtua Fighter 2: Still holds well up today, though you could get the arcade perfect version on 360/PS3.
-Sega Rally: fun and good conversion of the arcade classic.

I'm not very into 2D fighters but there are many great ones and I'm sure people here will give you tips about them.

Yep they are quite cheap and should be part of a collection regardless, at least because of their historical significance. Then again, you'd want to be a Saturn fan to keep playing them as most have been released in superior versions on other hardware: The Arcade version of VF2 and Daytona is on the 360, Sega Rally had an arcade port on the PS2 (loads of saturn exclusives got rereleased on the PS2 for some reason), Outrun, Afterburner, Space Harrier and many others have arcade perfect ports and 60fps and 3D on the 3DS. And Sonic is just everywhere.

As a fan I own most of those and I still like to play them on the Saturn, but it's more because of fanboyism and nostalgia (I got them back in the days), as objectively a better experience can be found elsewhere.

 

[Dwayne]

Besides Virtual On, is there other games that support the Saturn Twin Stick?

 

[sixteen-bit]

No

Panzer Dragoon Zwei supports a "twinstick" of sorts. If you have two Saturn Mission Sticks you can fly and aim independently using them. The mission stick is analog though, whereas the Twinstick is digital, so as you can imagine those Virtual On controllers won't work.

edit: I lied. Apparently they're compatible with a number of Gundam games and Gungriffon 2.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Besides Virtual On, is there other games that support the Saturn Twin Stick?

Yes, the second and third Gundam Sidestory games claim to support it. They have control schemes mentioned in their manuals, at least; I don't have a twinstick myself to test it with, or to see if it works with the first game too even though it's not mentioned. Maybe not, but the second and third games definitely should work with it.

Also, via a controller adapter, I believe you can use it with VOOT on Dreamcast?

 

[sixteen-bit]

Yeah, Saturn twinsticks work on VOOT via the total control 3 controller adapter

 

[Khaz]

(following my previous message)

Spoiler

I don't wan't to dismiss the Saturn, I really don't! But these ports are very cool

Virtual On was ported to the PS2 as part of the Sega Ages series. It's an arcade port (Saturn is slightly downgraded) and I have to say the dualshock is a very nice alternative to the twinstick. And probably cheaper too.

Panzer Dragoon Zwei supports a "twinstick" of sorts. If you have two Saturn Mission Sticks you can fly and aim independently using them. The mission stick is analog though, whereas the Twinstick is digital, so as you can imagine those Virtual On controllers won't work.

That's so cool! It doesn't work with digital input? I guess plugging two Nights controllers in may do the trick. It's almost a coop mode where one player flies while the other shoots.

Spoiler

probably boring just to fly though

[edit] Well I guess not. So strange.

Interestingly enough, there's an expansion connector on the bottom of the stick labeled "sub control", which was given no official use. However, this can be exploited through a second Mission Stick to access a hidden function of the controller. Mounting two sticks to the control panel at either side, where one uses "main control" and the other "sub control" will create a "twin-stick". Only one game, Panzer Dragoon Zwei, is known to support that twin-stick mode, and it is important to note that the Mission Stick in twin-stick mode is not compatible with the Saturn Twin Stick, which is an entirely separate control scheme.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

PS2 Virtual On is a really thorough port. IIRC, it has options for the original arcade refresh rate (57.5hz?), split screen and LAN, playable boss characters (one of which is new to the port but not to the lore (lol lore)), and new super moves that can be toggled on or off.

 

[ZealousD]

Yeah, Saturn twinsticks work on VOOT via the total control 3 controller adapter

Yeah there's even a toggle switch to switch between the sticks and a regular pad. If you have a Dreamcast you gotta have one of these for your fighters.

 

[sixteen-bit]

PS2 Virtual On is a really thorough port. IIRC, it has options for the original arcade refresh rate (57.5hz?), split screen and LAN, playable boss characters (one of which is new to the port but not to the lore (lol lore)), and new super moves that can be toggled on or off.

Sounds like I gotta cop that. Shame there's no PS2 twinstick.

 

[Dwayne]

Yeah there's even a toggle switch to switch between the sticks and a regular pad. If you have a Dreamcast you gotta have one of these for your fighters.

Why's that? I thought Dreamcast arcade stick was supposed to be good.

Thanks for all the Twin Stick info guys, I just made a huge order from Japan for a ton of Saturn stuff

 

[A Black Falcon]

(following my previous message)

Spoiler

I don't wan't to dismiss the Saturn, I really don't! But these ports are very cool

Virtual On was ported to the PS2 as part of the Sega Ages series. It's an arcade port (Saturn is slightly downgraded) and I have to say the dualshock is a very nice alternative to the twinstick. And probably cheaper too.



That's so cool! It doesn't work with digital input? I guess plugging two Nights controllers in may do the trick. It's almost a coop mode where one player flies while the other shoots.

Spoiler

probably boring just to fly though

[edit] Well I guess not. So strange.

The "main control" and "sub control" ports that the stick units plug into in the Mission Stick base are classic 9-pin ports, not Saturn controller ports.

Yeah, Saturn twinsticks work on VOOT via the total control 3 controller adapter

Now there's a reason to get the Saturn twinstick over the DC one... with the Saturn one you can cover both consoles! You can't go the other way, right?

 

[ZealousD]

Why's that? I thought Dreamcast arcade stick was supposed to be good.

Thanks for all the Twin Stick info guys, I just made a huge order from Japan for a ton of Saturn stuff

Well if you have a green arcade stick then I suppose its fine. =P

I grew up on the Genesis 6 button pad and I find it really hard to acclimate to sticks. So if you're like me, the TC3 is a must have. Cheaper than a stick too.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Now there's a reason to get the Saturn twinstick over the DC one... with the Saturn one you can cover both consoles! You can't go the other way, right?

Unfortunately there's no adapter for the reverse (DC->Saturn). Double shame since the DC twinsticks are nicer than the Saturn ones, at least in my opinion.

 

[Teknoman]

Year of the Saturn fighting games are up this month, so that shouldnt be hard for people to follow.