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[piggychan]

List of saturn PAL releases with symbol next to optimized games.

PAL Optimized games will not display properly on NTSC machines so you may need to install a 50/60hz switch.
http://segasaturn.co.uk/games/sega_saturn_pal.html

 

[D.Lo]

I found Sony to be the worst when it comes to this. I haven't seen any of their PAL releases being optimised, and the way the console works means you have no way to unlock 60Hz goodness out of a PAL release. If you want to play PS1 games at 60Hz, you have to buy the American release.

Ahem, or the Japanese versions.

Yes Sony and Sega had a very poor history with PAL optimisation, they really treated PAL poorly, which is strange considering between them they consistently won the overall PAL territories. Sega started treating PAL versions well with the Saturn and Dreamcast, just when they started to lose them!

At least on SEGA and Nintendo consoles you could mod a switch to play your non-optimised PAL games at 60Hz, and Nintendo had many of its first-party games with optimised gameplay (whether it's good or bad depends on the person.)

You have to give full credit for the effort of PAL optimisation, even though it is now a pain to deal with. It's not really fair to look at an 80s game release from the perspective of a collector 30 years later. The TVs available in PAL territories were largely not capable of 60Hz until the mid 90s, so an optimised game on a 50Hz console was as good a product as possible for those customers at that time.

 

[Khaz]

You have to give full credit for the effort of PAL optimisation, even though it is now a pain to deal with. It's not really fair to look at an 80s game release from the perspective of a collector 30 years later. The TVs available in PAL territories were largely not capable of 60Hz until the mid 90s, so an optimised game on a 50Hz console was as good a product as possible for those customers at that time.

That's not quite true. NTSC signals (on Composite, RF, S-Video) have always been difficult to play on a PAL set, because the difference in encoding, but to my knowledge all European TVs have been able to display 50 and 60Hz without a problem, at least since the beginning of the Scart era. Earlier sets that couldn't adapt automatically had a vsync pot, much like early American TVs.

Outputting 50Hz was a design decision to be safe in case of the odd TV that couldn't handle any other refresh rate, and allowing for both 50 and 60Hz would have cost money to the manufacturer. But a European Megadrive is perfectly capable of outputting PAL Composite at 60Hz and even in the old days the means of playing Japanese games and having 60Hz on your PAL console was common knowledge.

 

[Conezays]

So after scouring around various places, decided to pick up a Saturn at a local retro store. It included Virtua Fighter, Sub Pop Compilation CD, and some demos, along with a 3D control pad. I've even been enjoying Virtua Fighter 1 so far despite the myriad of criticisms I've seen online. Can't wait to play VF2 if it compares so much more favourably.

En route: a 2nd iteration controller, Action Replay Plus, S-video cords (still on the fence about hassling around with SCART until I move soon), Virtua Fighter 2, Daytona USA, Virtua Cop, Japanese Panzer Dragoon 1-2, Japanese Saturn Bomberman, Bug!, Japanese Virtual On, Clockwork Knight, Dark Savior, and some backup CR2032 batteries.

Pretty damn excited.

 

[D.Lo]

That's not quite true. NTSC signals (on Composite, RF, S-Video) have always been difficult to play on a PAL set, because the difference in encoding, but to my knowledge all European TVs have been able to display 50 and 60Hz without a problem, at least since the beginning of the Scart era. Earlier sets that couldn't adapt automatically had a vsync pot, much like early American TVs.

Outputting 50Hz was a design decision to be safe in case of the odd TV that couldn't handle any other refresh rate, and allowing for both 50 and 60Hz would have cost money to the manufacturer. But a European Megadrive is perfectly capable of outputting PAL Composite at 60Hz and even in the old days the means of playing Japanese games and having 60Hz on your PAL console was common knowledge.

Anecdotal but I'm in Australia, and I and everyone I knew didn't have a TV that could handle 60Hz until the mid 90s. And we always had decent TVs (mine in my bedroom was RF only, but it was a late 80s hand me down).

Wikipedia seems to agree with that, PAL60 was invented in the 90s as a way to play NTSC VHS tapes back on PAL screens. But may have been early 90s in Europe?

Either way, older consoles without an OS either have completely different chips (NES) so cannot ever run 60Hz, or are under-clocked to run at 50Hz, it's only later ones that have software refresh rate switches. So it's not particularly feasible for them to have offered 60Hz on old consoles. Sure we do mods to allow it, but it doesn't work quite perfectly sometimes (like the Mega Drive) and surely makes the console less reliable over the long term to be switching the voltage all over the place.

A modded PAL Mega Drive actually cannot output 60Hz over composite correctly. The composite video encoder chip is confused by the mod, and runs at an incorrect colour frequency that is neither NTSC or PAL, and usually displays in black and white. You need to replace the crystal oscillator as well. It works fine over RGB though.

 

[oneida]

VF -> VF2 is like New Hope -> Empire Strikes Back

 

[blast processed]

I was just playing Virtua Fighter on the 32x this morning. The simple controls make it so accessible after all these years. Even if it's a polyginal mess.

 

[Genesis Knight]

I was just playing Virtua Fighter on the 32x this morning. The simple controls make it so accessible after all these years. Even if it's a polyginal mess.

I love how fast it is w/out load times. 32X VF is great pick-up fun when you only have a few minutes.

 

[piggychan]

Does anyone like the Virtua Fighter Remix over the original ? I wish AM1 pushed for a 60fps and remixed backgrounds with this venture and different clothing

Kinda digging the American box art.

 

[oneida]

Does anyone like the Virtua Fighter Remix over the original ? I wish AM1 pushed for a 60fps and remixed backgrounds with this venture and different clothing

Kinda digging the American box art.

I prefer it to the console versions of VF1, but Model 1 was a beaut

 

[KC-Slater]

I was just playing Virtua Fighter on the 32x this morning. The simple controls make it so accessible after all these years. Even if it's a polyginal mess.

I would have loved to see what they could've squeezed out of the 32X, had Sega given it a bit more time. I get bummed out whenever I think about how Capcom had Alien Vs Preditor and Darkstalkers arcade ports planned.

 

[Genesis Knight]

Anybody else have the longbox variant of Remix? Very cool. I think it might have been a Canada only thing.

 

[blast processed]

I would have loved to see what they could've squeezed out of the 32X, had Sega given it a bit more time. I get bummed out whenever I think about how Capcom had Alien Vs Preditor and Darkstalkers arcade ports planned.

Yeah this one hurts...a lot. I was reading up on Sega bits about cancelled 32x games that could have been, which is here. It's funny to see IrishNinja with the top comment there. Ninjas are everywhere.

 

[Conezays]

So my S-Video/AV cords just arrived. Am I crazy to prefer the "softer" look of composite cables for Virtua Fighter? I don't have any 2D games to test out on at the moment (they'll be here soon). The S-video makes things look sharper and more vibrant, albeit makes the pixellated characters stand out a bit more.

 

[IrishNinja]

man as a comic fan it bugs me that i can't place who drew that VF remix art, style looks familiar

VF -> VF2 is like New Hope -> Empire Strikes Back

I was just playing Virtua Fighter on the 32x this morning. The simple controls make it so accessible after all these years. Even if it's a polyginal mess.

agreed with both these comments

Anybody else have the longbox variant of Remix? Very cool. I think it might have been a Canada only thing.

never even seen this! kinda cool

I would have loved to see what they could've squeezed out of the 32X, had Sega given it a bit more time. I get bummed out whenever I think about how Capcom had Alien Vs Preditor and Darkstalkers arcade ports planned.

oh man what
for real, i was saving my pennies for a saturn back then but a decent AvP port would've forced my hand, for real...one of my favorite beat-em-ups of all time

which is here. It's funny to see IrishNinja with the top comment there. Ninjas are everywhere.

haha! yeah, AJ's great, i used to follow him a lot more, i won his copy of Outlander...segabits is great, i'm more at sega-16 these days though

 

[MikeMyers]

Ahem, or the Japanese versions.

Yes Sony and Sega had a very poor history with PAL optimisation, they really treated PAL poorly, which is strange considering between them they consistently won the overall PAL territories. Sega started treating PAL versions well with the Saturn and Dreamcast, just when they started to lose them!

Its ok. Sega still rules Brazil.

 

[piggychan]

So my S-Video/AV cords just arrived. Am I crazy to prefer the "softer" look of composite cables for Virtua Fighter? I don't have any 2D games to test out on at the moment (they'll be here soon). The S-video makes things look sharper and more vibrant, albeit makes the pixellated characters stand out a bit more.

you should still be able to adjust the softness in your TV's picture settings.

 

[KC-Slater]

Anybody else have the longbox variant of Remix? Very cool. I think it might have been a Canada only thing.

I actually spotted one on my lunch break, downtown Toronto today! The shop was asking like $60 though...lol.

Didn't Sega offer it as a mail-in free-be because of the lackluster VF-port? If so, I suspect that may have been a U.S.-only thing, as it had a full-priced retail release in a longbox up North. We're always getting the short end of the stick! Haha

 

[Moor-Angol]

i just started to hear about pal60 during DC times, everything before (PS1,SS,N64) was locked to the slowly 50hz, so I think it was introduced at the beginning of 2000
I bought a 21" flat Panasonic CRT in 2001 and it was pal60, it was a great tv only lacking in component input, which was introduced a couple of years later
PS2 in the beginning was still 50hz, I remember so well the terribile DMC pal version while DC was already pal60, but it was the Dreamcast, a system ahead of its time

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Didn't Sega offer it as a mail-in free-be because of the lackluster VF-port? If so, I suspect that may have been a U.S.-only thing, as it had a full-priced retail release in a longbox up North. We're always getting the short end of the stick! Haha

Sega of America would ship out a free copy to anyone who filled out and mailed the registration card for the system. Pretty sure it was only in a paper sleeve though.

 

[blast processed]

Sega of America would ship out a free copy to anyone who filled out and mailed the registration card for the system. Pretty sure it was only in a paper sleeve though.

It was the, Disc was orange and it had Not For Resale in the corner.

Here it is

 

[MikeMyers]

Kinda thinking about getting VF remix now.

2 is great, and I also recommend Fighters Megamix, which was voted the #1 Saturn game by SaturnGAF!

 

[Genesis Knight]

I actually spotted one on my lunch break, downtown Toronto today! The shop was asking like $60 though...lol.

Didn't Sega offer it as a mail-in free-be because of the lackluster VF-port? If so, I suspect that may have been a U.S.-only thing, as it had a full-priced retail release in a longbox up North. We're always getting the short end of the stick! Haha

LOL. That's enough anecdotal evidence for me. I got my copy off a Canadian, and you're like the fifth Canadian who I've talked to who has or has seen locally a VF Remix Longbox.

 

[gelf]

Remix and Kids are the only ones in the series I've never played. I should fix that.

 

[MikeMyers]

I actually feel like an asshole when I beat up Kids Akira in Megamix.

 

[blast processed]

Can't believe how much people are paying for that VFR long box. CrAzY!! Grab dat sheet for $5.

 

[oneida]

long box VFR goes for more than the arcade game, hah

always thought an STV would be a good arcade board to have, it's got the convenience of neo geo without the cost and with far fewer notable games

 

[sixteen-bit]

long box VFR goes for more than the arcade game, hah

always thought an STV would be a good arcade board to have, it's got the convenience of neo geo without the cost and with far fewer notable games

I want an STV so badly for dat Groove on Fight

 

[Conezays]

you should still be able to adjust the softness in your TV's picture settings.

Yeah, just grabbed this small TV so hadn't messed around yet. Playing around with the colour and sharpness helped lots! Cheers.

 

[MikeMyers]

What does SaturnGAF think of the original House of the Dead? Worth a purchase?

 

[Khaz]

Were there any game on the ST-V that didn't appear on the Saturn?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

What does SaturnGAF think of the original House of the Dead? Worth a purchase?

My memory says the game was OK, but I really disliked the 1st party lightgun for the system. Had a really flimsy trigger IIRC.

Personally, the only HotD I care about is Typing of the Dead.

 

[Timu]

Personally, the only HotD I care about is Typing of the Dead.

Lol, I remember playing that one on Dreamcast.

 

[Genesis Knight]

What does SaturnGAF think of the original House of the Dead? Worth a purchase?

Fun game, and the JP version is cheap. Looks a lot worse than the arcade, but eh - who cares? Just make sure you have a CRT television so you can use a lightgun, it's not fun with a controller.

 

[MikeMyers]

I have the TV for it, just not the gun.

 

[blast processed]

I have the TV for it, just not the gun.

Pick up the JP version, so much cheaper. The game is good fun, so get 2 guns and a friend, or dual-wield, the game can get hard. Soundtrack is great also.

Fun game, and the JP version is cheap. Looks a lot worse than the arcade, but eh - who cares? Just make sure you have a CRT television so you can use a lightgun, it's not fun with a controller.

I've played with the controller before and did pretty well. I guess it's preference.

 

[Genesis Knight]

I've played with the controller before and did pretty well. I guess it's preference.

Well I am talking about fun factor, not ease. But it's definitely a taste thing. For me, lightgun games are too shallow to really enjoy apart from the gimmick they were built around.

 

[Shadow Hog]

It should be noted that you're stuck with green blood in the Japanese version.

I mean, oddly enough, I find the green blood more appealing for the zombies than red, but you don't even get to change it, unlike you do in the western releases (which let you choose either of those, and also blue and purple, I think?).

Still, it's the difference between $150-200 and $10-20.

 

[piggychan]

What does SaturnGAF think of the original House of the Dead? Worth a purchase?

It's not bad but if you have a dreamcast why would you want this version? If not then you might want to get it.

I used to wonder why the original team never did the saturn port rather SEGA gave that job to Tantalus Games who also did Manx TT Superbike.

 

[Shadow Hog]

It's not bad but if you have a dreamcast why would you want this version? If not then you might want to get it.

You realize House of the Dead 2 isn't the first House of the Dead, right

 

[Genesis Knight]

You realize House of the Dead 2 isn't the first House of the Dead, right

For my money I enjoy the first much more than the second, to boot. (But in general I am anti-Dreamcast biased. I don't think it's as enjoyable a system as Saturn, or the 16-bit family for that matter.)

 

[IrishNinja]

^haha not even touching that one

personally for HoTD, Typing is my # 1, but Overkill is a great # 2...too many people slept on that game!

 

[piggychan]

You realize House of the Dead 2 isn't the first House of the Dead, right

oops I forgot about 1 and 2 :O

 

[Genesis Knight]

^haha not even touching that one

personally for HoTD, Typing is my # 1, but Overkill is a great # 2...too many people slept on that game!

I'll make an argument for Saturn > Dreamcast any day of the week. (Except I won't, b/c arguing with peeps on the web takes too much time, haha)

 

[sixteen-bit]

^haha not even touching that one

personally for HoTD, Typing is my # 1, but Overkill is a great # 2...too many people slept on that game!

They made a Typing version of Overkill for PC btw. Sounds like it'd be up your alley.

 

[IrishNinja]

I'll make an argument for Saturn > Dreamcast any day of the week. (Except I won't, b/c arguing with peeps on the web takes too much time, haha)

oh i know you would, haha

honestly having spent the last few years really diving into the saturn's library, i can totally see the argument. like the turbografx, if you just saw the US stuff it feels like there's no real comparison, but when you get further in? damn

They made a Typing version of Overkill for PC btw. Sounds like it'd be up your alley.

oh my god i totally bought this like a year ago when it cropped up outta nowhere on steam and never even booted it, haha shit thanks man

 

[MikeMyers]

For my money I enjoy the first much more than the second, to boot. (But in general I am anti-Dreamcast biased. I don't think it's as enjoyable a system as Saturn, or the 16-bit family for that matter.)

The way I see it:

A vote for Saturn is a vote for Segata Sanshiro.

A vote for Dreamcast is a vote for Bernie Stolar.

VOTE FOR SATURN.

 

[sixteen-bit]

The way I see it:

A vote for Saturn is a vote for Segata Sanshiro.

A vote for Dreamcast is a vote for Bernie Stolar.

VOTE FOR SATURN.

Yukawa IMO

 

[MikeMyers]

Don't try to detail my PR spin guy.

 

[MikeMyers]

I've played with the controller before and did pretty well. I guess it's preference.

I play Virtua Cop with the controller and enjoyed it just fine. I guess HOTD would be similar?