entremet
Member
They're great.
They did remove the flashing in Metal Slug, though.
But they support native resolutions and are pretty much perfect. The only issue is that the selection is not comprehensive.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sega Saturn Appreciation and Emulation Thread
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
They're great.
They did remove the flashing in Metal Slug, though.
But they support native resolutions and are pretty much perfect. The only issue is that the selection is not comprehensive.
D.Lo
Member
That guy's just saying Saturn version is not arcade perfect, which is true. It is a version of the game which was not released in arcades in that form.Hmm, I dunno Rotanibor says ps2 is good while saturn is not http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_S...ire_Savior.2C_console_release_or_otherwise.3F
Though Im interested in forcing it into 240p. I do have resurrection on 360 and want to eventually get the arcade hardware so it's mostly for curiosity's saketo have nicer looking games I'll probably go the earlier gen route
That's the perspective of crazy tournament guys who only ever accept versions of games that were released in arcades. It's like how the Dreamcast version of 3rd Strike is derided because it was based on a slightly re-balanced final Japanese revision of the arcade game, which was not released in America, so for some reason has been decided is 'not the right version' and is therefore defective (yes the port also has a couple of other issues but the 'not correct version' is one of the arguments against it).
But when it comes to your actual experience playing it in a non-professional manner, for actual fun, the Saturn version looks better and plays better.
I'm one of those crazy (wannabe) tournament guys. And yeah as a for fun release its fine, but if you want to compete (which honestly is for fun at this point in old games' lives) you kind of have to base your standards on what's played in japanese arcades, because that's where the heart of their respective games scenes are at. If you want to go to Japan at some point and compete in Xmania, Cooperation Cup or whatever you want something 1:1 or as close as possible to the arcade. I do want to get Hunter on Saturn at least. Maybe Night Warriors too. Savior is kind of pricey for something I own twice
And if my wording is unclear you can also play 18 characters in ps2 vampire savior (and 18 in savior 2 and hunter 2 as well)
And honestly Urien and especially Oro without unblockables is pretty lame lol
D.Lo
Member
Well it sounds like you're more into that side of it guys like sixteen-bit and myself.
I'm judging the releases as retail products in the way normal people would enjoy them. And as a quality retail product, the PS2 collection fails but not having an output option that looks good on a CRT.
Yes I know you can unlock all 18 characters in each version of the collection. It definitely has more options and versions etc. But to me the whole thing is pointless when it's hidden behind a smeared visual mess.
VS is not a particularly brilliant fighting game anyway, it's kind of messy and busy and unbalanced and fights play out as chip-damage attrition.
But it has beautiful graphics and I want to see them clearly.
I'm judging the releases as retail products in the way normal people would enjoy them. And as a quality retail product, the PS2 collection fails but not having an output option that looks good on a CRT.
Yes I know you can unlock all 18 characters in each version of the collection. It definitely has more options and versions etc. But to me the whole thing is pointless when it's hidden behind a smeared visual mess.
VS is not a particularly brilliant fighting game anyway, it's kind of messy and busy and unbalanced and fights play out as chip-damage attrition.
But it has beautiful graphics and I want to see them clearly.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
So... is Astal any good these days? Looking for a good platformer to pick up, but I'm not sure if that fits the bill.
Completely disagree. Not much chip at all, a lot of quickly recoverable white health. The rushdown, mixups and universal mechanics and mesh very nicely to form a very fast paced almost anime game but with old school fundamentals. It's not as unbalanced as 3s or arguably 2x in my (not expert) opinion. At AOW7 last week a Lilith basically won (it was 5v5 but this Lilith kind of carried in grand finals), free, over sasquatch, lord raptor and all even though she's lower mid tier. I agree the visuals are a huge draw for most probably, over other things, and for that I guess one should own the saturn port.
IrishNinja
Member
They are junk, just like most Dreamcast fg ports ¯_( ´_ゝ｀
agreed
guys pls let me have your junky junk DC ports
Now that I think about it, Dreamcast has its share of good ports. Mvc2, cvs2, jojo's, ST, puzzle fighter doesn't really count but it says fighter in the title. (Japanese) project justice. Soul Calibur is even better, and street fighter double impact is a nice conversion to Dreamcast but an extensive rebalace.
A little basic on the gameplay but a very pretty looking game
D.Lo
Member
Pizarro you clearly have higher level interest in the games and genre than myself and I assume many of us Saturn thread regulars. Just buy the PS2 collection if you want it?
I was once a good Z2/3S player who could beat all the guys at the local arcade, but I'm largely just a casual fan of many fighting games and enjoy them by myself for their art and design, and occasionally with friends for laughs. I likely have 50+ fighting games in my collection, and well over half I won't have played as every character, let alone gotten into the intricacies of their balance.
I was once a good Z2/3S player who could beat all the guys at the local arcade, but I'm largely just a casual fan of many fighting games and enjoy them by myself for their art and design, and occasionally with friends for laughs. I likely have 50+ fighting games in my collection, and well over half I won't have played as every character, let alone gotten into the intricacies of their balance.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
That's a fair point -- a couple of the Saturn ports, like the ones you named, are totally worth getting for the bonus content.
The soundtrack in 4 is nuts.
D.Lo
Member
It really is something else, isn't it.
I already have. I just assumed your interest was the same as mine and figured you might know something about the technical aspects of the port compared to the arcade original. The blurred res is a given on ps2. Though I do overlook the visual fidelity some. It just seems like a straight port has always been too much to ask for from devs. Plus on the crappy TV im using I can barely tell the difference between Elevator Action Returns res and sf alpha anthology. At some point I'll buy a pvm but right now i just check craigslist for nearby free crt's
Never played it, but if you're looking for a platformer, how about Rayman? Apparently it's not as good as the Atari Jaguar version, but it's still a solid game on the Saturn. It does get pretty tough in later levels, though.
They are junk, just like most Dreamcast fg ports ¯_( ´_ゝ｀
The fighters ported from Naomi (Capcom Vs. SNK 2, Dead or Alive 2, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2) should be good, since Naomi is literally just an arcade version of Dreamcast.
But the system has an inferior outsourced port of Sega's signature fighting series while a Namco fighter was the crown of it. That just does not sit well with me.
D.Lo
Member
I know the basics, but have never been crazy into VS. Like I said, when playing with mates (ones who actually know characters and moves but have not ever 'practiced' or anything) it's usually a bit scrubby in my experience. I have literally never played VS against a good player.
And I basically just never played the PS2 version because it looked so bad. Same with Alpha Anthology, I was actually working in the industry as the editor for a (now defunct) big Australian site back when it was released. I still have my promo copy. Here's a web archive of my review from 2006 haha!
I didn't know how 240p worked ten years ago, and blamed the PS2 for the blurriness. The game does have tearing in 480i though, and the resolution is wrong/scaling is off too.
EDIT: haha and proof I've hated the Sony dpad for fighters for at least ten years! Oh man going through my old writing is slightly embarrassing.
Apologies for keeping the OT train full speed guys.
Is it still possible to buy these Neo Geo games from the Japanese Virtual Console? Getting a Japanese Wii would be pretty cheap now (and if the store is still up, I assume I'd only need Japanese points cards, right?). Thanks in advance!
Is SamShoIV a solid port on the Saturn? I remember reading reviews claiming it was superior to the PS one, yet still plagued with slowdowns and cut animations.
And to add my 2 cents on the whole retro emulation collections debate, yeah, I can't say I'm happy about the fact they don't run at 240p (it's unbelievable how sharper and more vibrant these 2D games look in RGB, running on the Saturn and the PlayStation, compared to the PS2, even on my super low-end 20" Trinitron), or I pretend they're perfect when they aren't (I skipped all those crappy SNK random arcade collections, as well as several Neo Geo Online volumes, due to their well known technical flaws).
That said, I can deal with some downsides, if my only practical alternative is to miss the whole experience. Examples: Final Fight is one of my favourite arcade classics of all times, and since I can't fit a cab in my gameroom, and I've never been into SuperGun/jamma market anyway, my one and only legit way to play the game at home was to import a Japanese copy of Capcom Classics Collection for the PS2. Same with Waku Waku 7, which was given a shitty port on the Saturn, as opposed to the emulation included with the Sunsoft Collection on the PS2 again.
D.Lo
Member
I've never really noticed anything major. I believe 3 is basically perfect, but it's not that good a game.
I believe 4 has slowdown if two big characters fight each other, but then deliberate slowdown is part of the way the game plays anyway so I couldn't tell (Samurai Slowdown). I have been led to believe from forums it's worse when using the wrong RAM cart - it runs best on an original SNK 1MB cart, and some 4 in 1 carts have issues.
Worth it for the CD soundtrack anyway IMO, and yes it's a very solid port with no cut frames as far as I'm aware.
I guess NG CD has the CD soundtrack too, so maybe that's the best version if wanting the soundtrack. Load times suck though.
^ Thanks!
Gotta add the game to my wishlist then. Since I already have 3's box set with the RAM cart, I'll go for the standard edition with 4.
And yeah, speaking about RAM carts, I can confirm that SNK games on the Saturn can be finicky, when it comes to unofficial 4-in-1 models. I tend to not swap them around too much - I know the cart slot is not the sturdiest part of the console - so I keep my Action Replay Plus plugged in 99% of the time, but I experienced some weird stuff (with Real Bout specifically, with Mary's dog and Andy's scarf looking all glitchy during their entrance/victory animations, every once in a while).
Gotta add the game to my wishlist then. Since I already have 3's box set with the RAM cart, I'll go for the standard edition with 4.
And yeah, speaking about RAM carts, I can confirm that SNK games on the Saturn can be finicky, when it comes to unofficial 4-in-1 models. I tend to not swap them around too much - I know the cart slot is not the sturdiest part of the console - so I keep my Action Replay Plus plugged in 99% of the time, but I experienced some weird stuff (with Real Bout specifically, with Mary's dog and Andy's scarf looking all glitchy during their entrance/victory animations, every once in a while).
entremet
Member
You should. One of the best games was delisted, however. Windjammers/Flying Power Disc. It used be on the Japanese Wii VC, but Data East went under and it was delisted.
Some of these changes seems so random. Why the fuck would they remove hitboxes? This annoyed me to no end when I got the Metal Slug collection.
Nostalgic Nightmare
Member
Actually I find SS4 has the best loading times of the series on the NGCD, they really optimized the loading times on that one (I do have a CDZ though)
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
My understanding is that Nintendo became a lot more restrictive about anything that might trigger a seizure, so the ports had to have the flashes removed... even though Metal Slug really doesn't have anything too jarring in it. Either way, kinda dumb -- they should've at least provided an option to turn them back on.
Also, I'm kinda shocked by how fast this thread moves. Guess the Saturn's still pretty cool after 21 years.
Terrible move from Nintendo there
Yeah, the Saturn was great then and is great now, so of course it moves fast You should. One of the best games was delisted, however. Windjammers/Flying Power Disc. It used be on the Japanese Wii VC, but Data East went under and it was delisted.
Aw, crap. That would've been an insta-buy of course.
I'll check it out, thanks!
Years ago, with a couple of friends, I used to run a MASSIVE Saturn-related thread on an Italian videogames forum (something like 'The Saturn Brigade', lol). By the time the website went down the flush, that was probably the second/third biggest discussion thread in the entire forum. System just gets lots of well-deserved love.
I think everyone knows about Dreamcast at least though?
The Saturn version is the one to get imo, along with the ultimate DOS edition for the other 9000 levels.
The soundtrack (like most Saturn 1st party titles) is on another level of awesome.
There's more people that know about DC than Saturn where I live, but commonly I see the Mega Drive referred to as "the Sega."
D.Lo
Member
I think the only reason many people have heard of the Dreamcast is that 'Dreamcast' sponsored Arsenal and some other EU football clubs for quite a few years. That was some crazy exposure.
My favourite football game on the system.
man you just reminded me of the football RPG made by enix for the saturn... ah if only ...
Nippon Daihyou Team no Kantoku ni Narou! Sekaihatsu, Soccer RPG
entremet
Member
Aw, crap. That would've been an insta-buy of course.
I'll check it out, thanks!
Years ago, with a couple of friends, I used to run a MASSIVE Saturn-related thread on an Italian videogames forum (something like 'The Saturn Brigade', lol). By the time the website went down the flush, that was probably the second/third biggest discussion thread in the entire forum. System just gets lots of well-deserved love.
You will need a Japanese Wii of course. I don't know how you pay for it, meaning I don't know if it takes Japanese credit cards only.
Genesis Knight
Member
I like 97, that's the one that was ported to the PC as well.
Agreed, Saturn Rayman has by far the better controller, fantastic graphics and CD music. Don't let those Jaguar weirdos fool you.
I don't know if you're talking about windjammers, but I've seen some people say they can use their own credit cards and only get charged a small tax. If not your only choice is buying a japanese points which is annoyingly are like 200% more expensive. You don't need a Japanese wii though, just the homebrew channel and AnyRegionChanger
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I have just begun my journey with the Sega Saturn. I recently ordered a Japanese Saturn, but it's going to be at least two more weeks before it arrives. In the meantime I've received some AV/power cords and I just received my gamepad. It's apparently new, but the box is kinda rough. Everything else is intact.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I'd agree with those guys. You shouldn't feel guilty about playing the games you own. Don't think about it as an investment.
Even though I want those SNK collections, I would still like to get various Sega Saturn versions of games for that 240p goodness. Not just for the scanlines and the crisp look, but because it's easier to record with my capture card than 480i, and 480i is annoying for 2D games when it comes to image quality IMO. Plus I want to take advantage of RGB!
I should get Real Bout Fatal Fury Special on Saturn for a start.
I should get Real Bout Fatal Fury Special on Saturn for a start.
Similar threads
- Poll