cj_iwakura
Member
Eno was a master of getting what he wanted by any means necessary, that's for dang sure. A crazy diamond too shiny for this world.
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Sega Saturn Appreciation and Emulation Thread
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
Eno was a master of getting what he wanted by any means necessary, that's for dang sure. A crazy diamond too shiny for this world.
Well... I have built up a decent "start" to my collection again.
Got the proper Action Replay cart so I can dig into the later releases (Marvel vs Street Fighter works! yay!), and enough resources to expand on the import side of things.
I'm starting to realize that the US versions of most games are far more expensive than the imports...
Got the proper Action Replay cart so I can dig into the later releases (Marvel vs Street Fighter works! yay!), and enough resources to expand on the import side of things.
I'm starting to realize that the US versions of most games are far more expensive than the imports...
ExitPlanetDust
Member
Good stuff, Hightower.
Current Collection:
Marvel vs. Street Fighter
X-Men vs. Street Fighter
X-Men: COTA
Marvel Super Heroes
Vampire Savior
Cyberbots
Dynamite Deka
Street Figher Alpha
Street Fighter Alpha II
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Fire Pro: 6 Men Scramble
Last Bronx
Virtua Fighter 1
Virtua Fighter 2
Daytona USA
Virtual On
Need for Speed
Road Rash
Gex
World Series Baseball
World Series Baseball II
Sega Rally
All Star Hockey
Cyber Speedway
Iron Man/X-O: Heavy Metal
Hows that for the first couple weeks?
Downside? I only have one controller :/
Marvel vs. Street Fighter
X-Men vs. Street Fighter
X-Men: COTA
Marvel Super Heroes
Vampire Savior
Cyberbots
Dynamite Deka
Street Figher Alpha
Street Fighter Alpha II
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Fire Pro: 6 Men Scramble
Last Bronx
Virtua Fighter 1
Virtua Fighter 2
Daytona USA
Virtual On
Need for Speed
Road Rash
Gex
World Series Baseball
World Series Baseball II
Sega Rally
All Star Hockey
Cyber Speedway
Iron Man/X-O: Heavy Metal
Hows that for the first couple weeks?
Downside? I only have one controller :/
sixteen-bit
Member
Wow, you've amassed some really good stuff in 2 weeks.
I have a question for Marvel Super Heroes owners. How are the load times? I've been spoiled by 4M games like SFZ3 and XvsSF, so even Cyberbots with the 1M expansion loads way to slow for me.
Also, anyone know where I can get a white Analog controller for a decent price?
I have a question for Marvel Super Heroes owners. How are the load times? I've been spoiled by 4M games like SFZ3 and XvsSF, so even Cyberbots with the 1M expansion loads way to slow for me.
Also, anyone know where I can get a white Analog controller for a decent price?
KojiKnight
Member
Not bad, but still heavily lacking in the Dragon Force department... speaking of which, I should try and find my copy... think it's still in the closet.
The load times are there.. not horrible.. but they are there. Runs silky smooth with the Action Replay cart and the game running in the 1Meg mode. Makes a huge difference.
I have Marvel Origins on XBL that has both MSH and Marvel vs Capcom.. but still go back to the Saturn version.
CrashPrime
Member
I was listening to an old Retronauts 1UP podcast featuring the Sega Saturn. Great listen for those who want to travel back in time a bit. http://www.1up.com/do/minisite?pager.offset=2&cId=3156908 (Features an old favorite of mine and GAF alike, the one and only Shane "Mangod" Bettenhausen speaking of his adventures in early 2000's Akihabra Japan)
But I found out a little tidbit that I had no previous knowledge of.
What is known about the emulation technology GameTap developed in 2007? The "subcription" portion of GameTap was phased out years ago, but if people remember, there was a very mature Saturn emulator that ran on middle-of-the-road '07 PC hardware.
I know Bug!, Panzer Dragoon 1&2 both showed up on the service. I think there were others.
From what I can tell, GameTap actually was the only place you could officially play Panzer Dragoon 2 Zwei outside of an actual Sega Saturn.
Does Turner Broadcast still own GameTap? What happened to that wonderful piece of tech they were using to bring Saturn games to us? Is there any chance we might see a stand-alone release now that GameTap's subscription service has gone the way of the Dinosaur?
But I found out a little tidbit that I had no previous knowledge of.
What is known about the emulation technology GameTap developed in 2007? The "subcription" portion of GameTap was phased out years ago, but if people remember, there was a very mature Saturn emulator that ran on middle-of-the-road '07 PC hardware.
I know Bug!, Panzer Dragoon 1&2 both showed up on the service. I think there were others.
From what I can tell, GameTap actually was the only place you could officially play Panzer Dragoon 2 Zwei outside of an actual Sega Saturn.
Does Turner Broadcast still own GameTap? What happened to that wonderful piece of tech they were using to bring Saturn games to us? Is there any chance we might see a stand-alone release now that GameTap's subscription service has gone the way of the Dinosaur?
The load times are not KOF bad but there is lots of slowdown EVEN WITH the added memory option. I haven't played CotA, but MSH is a strong contender for worst Capcom Saturn conversion. I sold that shit IMMEDIATELY when MvCO was announced.
Shadow Hog
Member
I used this, actually. I recall it running kinda slow, but admittedly the computer I was trying it on wasn't the fastest. It was still pretty awesome to see all the same.
There was an announcement that NiGHTS would be coming to the service, and that they were looking into getting Panzer Dragoon Saga. Neither came. All ever you got was the first two Panzer Dragoons, Golden Axe: The Duel, the first Clockwork Knight, and two other games that escape my memory right now (BUG! doesn't sound that far off, honestly). Then all the Sega stuff just vanished one day (long after our subscription had lapsed). What a waste; I really hope Sega follows up on that one day, because the Saturn deserves better.
Hey Saturn GAF, let's compile the best songs that you can hear on the Saturn!
I'll get the ball rolling with Ride the Tiger from VF2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm2BRT_VDrM
I'll get the ball rolling with Ride the Tiger from VF2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm2BRT_VDrM
Seven Force
Banned
CoTA Saturn still isn't arcade perfect, but it's a far better port than MSH.
I remember reading a thread on Racketboy detailing all of the problems with the port, although apparently, someone found out that using the 1MB RAM cart (Not the 4MB or the Action Replay 3 in 1) adds the extra frames of animation without the ridiculous slowdown. Haven't tried it myself, but I could probably believe that.
Still though, MvCO's probably someone's best bet if they want to play MSH seriously. I'd really only get it just to have a physical copy of it.
I was using the 4MB Action Replay, seems odd that you'd specifically need a 1MB cart for the feature to actually work. Anyway IMO the Saturn version of MSH costs more than it's worth - I was happy to sell my US copy for market value which is considerably higher than it should be.
ExitPlanetDust
Member
Genesis Knight
Member
I believe GameTap used a version of Giri-Giri, which was why that emulator became a grey-area legally.
Yeah, and now we come to reason #2 why I abandoned the Action Replay 4M Plus. Sometimes it's just better to use the legit 1MB RAM cart. This also happens with Metal Slug Saturn.
I wrote it up here: http://typicalgeek.blogspot.com/2012/06/saturn-metal-slug-another-look.html
Yes, the cart does fix the massive slowdown of the game. (even the slow down was random.)
Sometimes it would be slow, sometime it would run right. Just weird.
But, using the cart it runs and looks great.
I repeat, the Action Replay works just fine. (bear in mind I am playing the import of that. It's been a while since I've had my hands on the US version)
The JPN version is stupid cheap. I got mine for about $8
ExitPlanetDust
Member
I was thinking of posting that one, too. Probably the best version of her theme. I was so disappointed when they changed it in Alpha 2 Gold.
Genesis Knight
Member
Have you compared against the 1MB RAM card?
I find it difficult to believe that the JP version would be any different in this front. The game has massive amounts of slowdown regardless of whether you have the 1MB setting turned on. Just check out Spidey's stage, it's a joke.
Seven Force
Banned
Great writeup.
Genesis Knight
Member
Thanks!
I just played it last night actually. I haven't really noticed any.
I guarantee you that if you recorded footage of the Spidey stage with and without the 1MB option, no one would be able to tell the difference.
RoryDropkick
Member
Weird, I thought it was only MSH that had the 1m option, Xmen was brought out well before the 1m's existence.
As it is, I'm glad I just own the CPS2 board for MSH
came with the arcade cabinet my wife bought me last year Seven Force
Banned
Weird, I thought it was only MSH that had the 1m option, Xmen was brought out well before the 1m's existence.
As it is, I'm glad I just own the CPS2 board for MSH
It doesn't, I was just talking about the Saturn version in general. CoTA has loadig on startup and a bit of loading between matches, but is otherwise a pretty decent port. It's a shame that Activision having exclusive rights to the X-Men license is keeping Capcom from re-releasing CoTA or XvSF.
Once again, I am going by the JPN version. There are difference between the US and JPN versions.
I've owned both and yes, the US version does run like crap... as I mentioned. I can't say the JPN version runs like that.
I dont get into the really analytical parts of it. But the JPN version running in the 3MB mode on does run a hell of a lot smoother and quicker than the US versions (I've owned that game at least 5 times now in varying forms. It's literally one of my all-time favorites.)
I don't have a way to access the Capcom issued 1mb card, just the Action Replay that I've owned with every Saturn I've had in the past.
RoryDropkick
Member
Right, that's more what I remembered. As it were, MSH got swept under the rug quote quickly once XvsSF. The anime meeting we had when that game got released was pretty spectacular, we had about 4 tv's with the game running, the local import store did mad business with that game *lol*
RoryDropkick
Member
It almost seemed like they tried to comment out the 1mb part of it on the US version since we were never going to get the cart to begin with, but just did a crappy job at it.
Frickin Sega.
I would have GLADLY bought it for US releases of everything, but hey, they twisted my arm.Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. C'mon, you're telling me that only the US version of MSH shits the bed with the Action Replay cart, and the JP version doesn't? The NA version released one month after the JP version!
Hey, Im not the only person who's said that.
There's nothing extraordinary about it. IT's possible there was a minor coding change for the US version. I'm not a programmer, so who's to say.
I just know from personal experience, as I've owned both the US and JPN version that the JPN version does run much smoother.
Here's some others that have had the same experiences...
http://segasaturngroup.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=games&thread=5234&page=2
"I'm not trying to start any debates here, it's just that there is a lot of confusion over MSH and RAM carts. And I hate hearing people badmouth the Saturn port of Marvel Super Heroes because it's so slow. Only the english versions are slow because they're coded differently and don't use the extra RAM required to run well.
Basically, if you want to play MSH then get the Japanese release if you're able to play them."
Genesis Knight
Member
I will test the JP version of MSH tonight with the 1MB Cart, 4MB Cart, and Action Replay 4M Plus Auto.
Do you have the US version to compare against?
Thats one thing I dont have access to right now.
Genesis Knight
Member
I can, yeah. Maybe not tonight though.
ExitPlanetDust
Member
Awesome write-up, Genesis Knight. It makes perfect sense... I assume the different carts use different types/brands of memory causing varying access times that may lead to the slowdown issues in Metal Slug.
For anyone interested in a comparison between the US PS1 and Saturn versions of Marvel Super Heroes, CD AGES did a pretty good write-up over at the Racketboy forums.
For anyone interested in a comparison between the US PS1 and Saturn versions of Marvel Super Heroes, CD AGES did a pretty good write-up over at the Racketboy forums.
Valkyria
Banned
On gamefaqs there are several text guides with all the text translated into English. I'm about to start playing it one of theses days. You can take a look into Sakura Taisen V which was officially translated, but it's said to be worst of the series, although it's an OK game.
Dragon1893
Member
Did anyone here play Deep Fear? God that game was amazing, up there with the PSone REs. Last Saturn game I bought back in the day.
Valkyria
Banned
I finished it a few weeks a ago. I think the production values are low even for its time, compared with RE2 it look like an older game.
I'm planning on taking out my old Matrox G400 system to record some Saturn games. Anyone here interested in seeing a specific game captured with a s-video cable?
This will be the last hurrah for this capture card, which is running on a old windows 98 machine, it will soon be taken apart and sold on eBay. It was used over the years to record most of the videos at Shenmue Dojo.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC38057D9B1A7E953
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5D819C6F41C2B4A4
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFE05BDD6BEDEAF17
This will be the last hurrah for this capture card, which is running on a old windows 98 machine, it will soon be taken apart and sold on eBay. It was used over the years to record most of the videos at Shenmue Dojo.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC38057D9B1A7E953
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5D819C6F41C2B4A4
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFE05BDD6BEDEAF17
Awesome list so far, much better than mind a couple pages back =p
What do you think of Cyber Speedway? I only got it since it was $1 and I was still disappointed. I remember watching videos of the game back when I first got the saturn and remember it looking better lol. Now it looks and plays horrible, can barely keep off the walls.
Hmmm this game doesn't ring a bell, but I love classic RE type games. I'll have to look it up, thanks!
Man, I loved visiting Shenmue Dojo when there was still a semblance of hope for Shenmue 3. =/
Hmm. . . this is interesting. I remember using the 4MB RAM cart with a US copy of MSH, and noticing how painfully slow things ran (Hulk on Blackheart stage). I always wondered why anyone would want to trade game speed for more animation frames.
I didn't know that the game version and RAM cart version affected performance. I will have to try the JPN version/1MB RAM cart combo sometime and check it out, see if it runs decently.
To be honest... I havent played it yet!
I bought it because it was cheap mainly.
I saw a store locally that has a US copy of "In the Hunt" for $20 that I'm thinking about snagging. It usually brings about $40-50 on Ebay...
Genesis Knight
Member
Okay, so I tested my JP AND US copies of Marvel Super Heroes.
JP:
No Cart = Cut animation, average slowdown.
Action Replay = Full animation, worse slowdown.
4MB Cart = Full animation, worse slowdown.
1MB Cart = Full animation, average slowdown.
The normal game cuts animation to run "smoothly", the 1MB cart adds animation and still runs "smoothly", while the 4MB/AR adds the animation and then has some sort of memory address issues (just like Metal Slug) and gets additional slowdown. It also accounts for all the Saturn users who have been playing the import version with an AR over the years. They use the AR for the import unlock, but they get the botched RAM support with it. End result is a slower game.
US:
No Cart = Cut animation, worse slowdown.
Action Replay = Full animation, worse slowdown.
4MB Cart = Full animation, worse slowdown.
1MB Cart = Full animation, worse slowdown.
This is what I don't get. Adding the RAM carts did restore the cut animation (I used Hulk for this and the JP tests), but not only did slowdown not improve across the different carts, it seemed universally worse than the JP version of MSH. This wouldn't be the first time that a US version of a game on Saturn had worse slowdown than the JP version (see Saturn Doom for an example), but I guess I expected the US and JP code for MSH to be the same.
Based on this anecdotal testing, I would say that the ranking of the ways to play MSH on Saturn goes like this:
1: The JP version with a 1MB RAM cart.
2: The JP version with any other type of cart.
3: The JP version without a cart.
4: The US version with any cart.
5: The US version without a cart.
Someone more familiar with the game than me might disagree, though. I probably don't have the best eye for this type of testing.
Make sure to not plug in your controller until after the Kokopeli logo or 75% of the time it will freeze.
JP:
No Cart = Cut animation, average slowdown.
Action Replay = Full animation, worse slowdown.
4MB Cart = Full animation, worse slowdown.
1MB Cart = Full animation, average slowdown.
The normal game cuts animation to run "smoothly", the 1MB cart adds animation and still runs "smoothly", while the 4MB/AR adds the animation and then has some sort of memory address issues (just like Metal Slug) and gets additional slowdown. It also accounts for all the Saturn users who have been playing the import version with an AR over the years. They use the AR for the import unlock, but they get the botched RAM support with it. End result is a slower game.
US:
No Cart = Cut animation, worse slowdown.
Action Replay = Full animation, worse slowdown.
4MB Cart = Full animation, worse slowdown.
1MB Cart = Full animation, worse slowdown.
This is what I don't get. Adding the RAM carts did restore the cut animation (I used Hulk for this and the JP tests), but not only did slowdown not improve across the different carts, it seemed universally worse than the JP version of MSH. This wouldn't be the first time that a US version of a game on Saturn had worse slowdown than the JP version (see Saturn Doom for an example), but I guess I expected the US and JP code for MSH to be the same.
Based on this anecdotal testing, I would say that the ranking of the ways to play MSH on Saturn goes like this:
1: The JP version with a 1MB RAM cart.
2: The JP version with any other type of cart.
3: The JP version without a cart.
4: The US version with any cart.
5: The US version without a cart.
Someone more familiar with the game than me might disagree, though. I probably don't have the best eye for this type of testing.
Make sure to not plug in your controller until after the Kokopeli logo or 75% of the time it will freeze.
I'm going to play some MSH here shortly. I swear I have not noticed any bad slowdown....
Now in the past, I've owned the US version on two separate occasions and that thing just never ran right.
Most times it would run about half speed.... unless I were to turn the system off and on a few times... and then one time it would run normally.
It was the weirdest damned thing. I never had that problem with the import.
Maybe it's just that I've played the game so much over the years that I just never noticed...
Now in the past, I've owned the US version on two separate occasions and that thing just never ran right.
Most times it would run about half speed.... unless I were to turn the system off and on a few times... and then one time it would run normally.
It was the weirdest damned thing. I never had that problem with the import.
Maybe it's just that I've played the game so much over the years that I just never noticed...
sixteen-bit
Member
Whoa, thanks for the exhaustive rundown GK. I don't have a 1M cart, but If I ever do (AFAIK some games require it and won't accept the 4M) I'll be sure to pick up JP MSH.
Holy cow! I've been dealing with this issue for over a decade, not knowing what the problem was. I thought my Saturn was fritzing out. Never knew it was a known issue. Man, thanks for the info!
Hightower, definitely pick up In The Hunt. I love that game. Has a Metal Slug feel to it, with all the detailed destruction. The subs do move slowly, but I like it despite that fact.
Genesis Knight
Member
Yup! I really wish In the Hunt ran better on Saturn, as it was developed by a team that would soon become the Metal Slug team. Their art style and attention to detail is brilliant.