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[7DollarHagane]

how many people in your anecdotal experience actually lives/lived with their parents though?

No idea, but the article is more about independence and being an adult.

Getting a decent entry level job and just disappearing after two weeks with no explanation isn't being an adult.

I do feel like a lot of young adults feel like they should start out at 20 with all the comforts and established lifestyle of a 35-40 year old. Cable tv, high end cell phone and expensive data plan, new car, big apartment or house, etc etc.

You can look at it the other way and when kids look at 40-50 year old people who have some of these things and don't realize that when they were 20 they used a rotary phone and went to the library for something to do.

 

[theWB27]

I mean young retail workers are flakey as shit. When has that not been the case? They'll learn as they get older and grow.

It was like this since forever.

I've worked retail quite awhile over my years. 12-15 sounds like some temp service dump a bunch of people and see who sticks type of turnover. I'm not doubting dollar....just asking.

 

[7DollarHagane]

It has nothing to do with the work environment that makes the turnover rate that insanely high at starbucks?

If they're keeping 2-3 then they'd still eventually have enough employees at some point unless my math is wrong?

People move stores, graduate college, move away to college, get another job, switch to part time, change availability. Places like that are always hiring and staff is always shifting around. The idea is that they have to overhire and plan for a certain number to burnout. That seems wrong to me.

 

[Foffy]

Cause then as a senator he'd have some tough questions to answer..

It's an answer they must address. The current system is literally failing for the masses.

Ignoring it doesn't change the fact it's broken down.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I've worked retail quite awhile over my years. 12-15 sounds like some temp service dump a bunch of people and see who sticks type of turnover. I'm not doubting dollar....just asking.

I mean I just remember retail in my early 20's and it just sounds familiar. I don't mean 12-15 specifically as I have no doubt that might be a specific thing but the general just of young workers being undisciplined and unreliable? Oh yea. Tale as old as time. I was there once. 7$ an hour didnt buy much loyalty from me.

 

[theWB27]

People move stores, graduate college, move away to college, get another job, switch to part time, change availability. Places like that are always hiring and staff is always shifting around. The idea is that they have to overhire and plan for a certain number to burnout. That seems wrong to me.

That temp service strategy...geez

I mean I just remember retail in my early 20's and it just sounds familiar. I don't mean 12-15 specifically as I have no doubt that might be a specific thing but the general just of young workers being undisciplined and unreliable? Oh yea. Tale as old as time. I was there once. 7$ an hour didnt buy much loyalty from me.

Yo...neither did the 5.50 I started out at.

 

[Deepwater]

No idea, but the article is more about independence and being an adult.

Getting a decent entry level job and just disappearing after two weeks with no explanation isn't being an adult.

I do feel like a lot of young adults feel like they should start out at 20 with all the comforts and established lifestyle of a 35-40 year old. Cable tv, high end cell phone and expensive data plan, new car, big apartment or house, etc etc.

You can look at it the other way and when kids look at 40-50 year old people who have some of these things and don't realize that when they were 20 they used a rotary phone and went to the library for something to do.

but that sentiment is only there because their parents and their parent's friends kept going on about how they moved out at 18 and instantaneously found gainful employment

when a young person's closest proximity to adulthood is giving them half truths that don't stand up anymore, of course they expect adulthood to be easy.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

It's an answer they must address. The current system is literally failing for the masses.

Ignoring it doesn't change the fact it's broken down.

I completely agree. It's only getting worse. I feel bad as shit for young people growing up now. Especially as I transition to middle age. Personally I think you put in 40 hours you should have a bare minimum standard of living. Even if it's just a damn studio apartment. Something.

Especially in expensive places. Shit, doubly so.

 

[Acorn]

Stop fucking crippling my generation then you cunt.

 

[Vicetrailia]

No idea, but the article is more about independence and being an adult.

Getting a decent entry level job and just disappearing after two weeks with no explanation isn't being an adult.

I do feel like a lot of young adults feel like they should start out at 20 with all the comforts and established lifestyle of a 35-40 year old. Cable tv, high end cell phone and expensive data plan, new car, big apartment or house, etc etc.

You can look at it the other way and when kids look at 40-50 year old people who have some of these things and don't realize that when they were 20 they used a rotary phone and went to the library for something to do.

Retail jobs are largely seen as distractions and not careers. You get in thinking about when you're gonna get out.

 

[Aaron Strife]

God Sasse is such a prick.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Stop fucking crippling my generation then you cunt.

Tell your generation to get the fuck off Snapchat and vote. Y'all won't learn till you're older. Like everyone else does. Then the cycle continues.

 

[Sianos]

Well, then I certainly hope they don't expect their children to pay for their healthcare. Guess they'll have to hope their kids don't follow their example, or else their retirement home conditions might mirror their expectation for how the poor should live.

 

[leroidys]

I only read what's quoted in the OP since the article is behind a paywall. Does he make any reference to the job market, wage stagnation and the housing markets, or just fill up the entire op-ed with empty platitudes?

 

[Foffy]

I only read what's quoted in the OP since the article is behind a paywall. Does he make any reference to the job market, wage stagnation and the housing markets, or just fill up the entire op-ed with empty platitudes?

He's a Republican.

You know he doesn't..

 

[BajiBoxer]

As he points out, the economy is a big factor, but many young people prioritize expensive cell phones, electronics, gym memberships, and other things that could be cut from your budget if you really want to be independent and move out.



This guy isn't old and hasn't been in office long.

That's true for some, but is there reason to think this is more than a small minority? It also depends a great deal on what the housing market is like. Some nice elctronics and entertainment is pretty damn cheap and a fraction of the cost of rent in many places. In some places it's live at home and contribute some to a higher quality of living, or be homeless.

 

[tearsintherain]

One big issue that I think gets glossed over way too much is the fact that there are a lot of young people who get college degrees just because everyone expects them to.

I don't know the percentages nowadays but when I was growing up a college degree usually meant a plan, like you were going to college to get a degree in engineering, finance, law, medicine, etc then use that to get a job. If you weren't interested in that you either started work right away or did a trade school (electrical, plumbing, etc) and started work. No one went 100k into debt on a liberal arts degree that had very little applicable work relevance. I'm in my 40s too so just one generation behind, not two like my dad where it was even fewer people had college degrees - out of my mom and dad's siblings, only 4 of them went to college, compared to 6 out of my and my wifes 11 siblings. 100% of my kids and all my brothers and sisters kids have gone to college or will be, which is a massive shift.

With the huge change in college tuition fees - I paid $2k/year for a fantastic UC California education, my daughter paid over $30k/yr for basically the same thing 25 years later - the shift has been really dramatic I think in how much college costs and how it can be so important to figure out BEFORE you go whether its going to help you financially over your life, or drag you down hard.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

One big issue that I think gets glossed over way too much is the fact that there are a lot of young people who get college degrees just because everyone expects them to.

I don't know the percentages nowadays but when I was growing up a college degree usually meant a plan, like you were going to college to get a degree in engineering, finance, law, medicine, etc then use that to get a job. If you weren't interested in that you either started work right away or did a trade school (electrical, plumbing, etc) and started work. No one went 100k into debt on a liberal arts degree that had very little applicable work relevance. I'm in my 40s too so just one generation behind, not two like my dad where it was even fewer people had college degrees - out of my mom and dad's siblings, only 4 of them went to college, compared to 6 out of my and my wifes 11 siblings. 100% of my kids and all my brothers and sisters kids have gone to college or will be, which is a massive shift.

They took trades out a lot of schools and I'm convinced that's a huge reason why there are a lot of people with degrees that don't truly need them. The entire paradigm of higher education needs to be rebuilt for the 21st century.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Well, I read the entire article.

Outside of the opening paragraphs, it's actually really benign. All it actually says is:

- Learn that buying things isn't a solution to your problems
- Get a job when you're a teenager
- Do volunteer work for old people
- Travel so you see how other people live
- Read books

If it weren't for the rather unfortunate part quoted in the OP, it would be like the most generic parenting advice article ever, and it's advice that hasn't changed for many decades.

There's nothing to get angry about here.

 

[Lord Fagan]

You can look at it the other way and when kids look at 40-50 year old people who have some of these things and don't realize that when they were 20 they used a rotary phone and went to the library for something to do.

You can also use basic math to figure out that people around 40-50 years old were twenty-somethings living in the very late 80s and early 90s. Don't pretend they were using "rotary phones" and spending wild Friday nights getting hammered at the library.

One generation is suffering from a delusion of just how well off they have been, and how they are largely responsible for the direction of the world for the last couple of decades. The really interesting thing is how this isn't actually a new phenomena, and old people have been bitching about youth having it too easy since time immemorial. Their parents did it to them, having fucking subcommittee hearings in the Senate over goddamn comic books, and we'll do it to our children.

Because youth is wasted on the young, and other timeless butthurt, amirite?!

 

[Psychoward]

Well, I read the entire article.

Outside of the opening paragraphs, it's actually really benign. All it actually says is:

- Learn that buying things isn't a solution to your problems
- Get a job when you're a teenager
- Do volunteer work for old people
- Travel so you see how other people live
- Read books

If it weren't for the rather unfortunate part quoted in the OP, it would be like the most generic parenting advice article ever, and it's advice that hasn't changed for many decades.

There's nothing to get angry about here.

There is when you consider the context of the person writing it and what his policies are.

 

[Izayoi]

Alright, we'll start with the original Pew research that marked the point where it was more common for 18-34 year olds to live with their parents. Important to note that this was just the point where it moved over to being more common, and had been a growing trend for some time. They note there is a connection between it and the trend in less marriages, but also:

Section 4 is specifically about the job market and goes into greater detail.

...

Bookmarking this post. Great job, man - thank you!

 

[Unknown Soldier]

There is when you consider the context of the person writing it and what his policies are.

I don't know anything about this guy other than I'm supposed to hate him because GAF tells me to. I read the article strictly without any of this knowledge, and it wasn't all that exciting to me. It's really the kind of stuff I would make my kids do if I had any, like get a job in high school (preferably a shitty one like at McDonalds) so they know what shitty jobs are like. And read books.

 

[dakini]

Yep, that's my senator.

 

[Reeks]

Yah fuck that. I don't live with my rents, but I wish I could sometimes. I had a full ride to undergrad but still had to take out loans for living expenses etc. I owe about 30k and my loan repayment is killing me- over 150 a month and it won't be payed off for like 25 years. That and living in LA alone costs me 1300 a month- and that's a fucking steal. I live here for grad school, so fuck anyone saying I'm not an adult, same if I lived with my parents- maybe then I wouldn't be drowning in debt despite doing everything that was forced down my throat growing up, "education is key!!"

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

My wife and I make almost 200k and can barely afford a house in a decent school district in Atlanta. The housing prices are through the roof. Any decent home is sold in hours for 30k over an already inflated asking price.

 

[nullref]

The economy has something to do with it, of course—but social and cultural developments do too.

"Let me genuflect towards quantifiable economic factors, but then get past that so I can harp on people's moral failings."

I'd argue that even having the temerity to write and publish such an article – making broad moral judgments about how people should be living, and how parents should be raising their children – is probably evidence enough that the author has a sub-par mind, and is an asshole to boot. Basically a bunch of bullshit meant to appeal to people's worst "kids these days" and "everyone is a bad parent but me" impulses.

 

[Kite]

I have several co-workers in their late 20s who make $60,000 a year and still live with their parents which is definitely enough to move out in Texas. They save $$ by paying almost nothing in rent and utilities, have a hot meal and someone doing their laundry. One guy finally moved out.. to an apartment a mile away and his Asian parents drop off groceries, meals and laundry every week or two.

 

[nullref]

I have several co-workers in their late 20s who make $60,000 a year and still live with their parents which is definitely enough to move out in Texas. They save $$ by paying almost nothing in rent and utilities, have a hot meal and someone doing their laundry. One guy finally moved out.. to an apartment a mile away and his Asian parents drop off groceries, meals and laundry every week or two.

Different cultures have different ideas about multi-generational households and what parents should provide for their kids. I was raised with the idea that self-sufficiency and financial independence are virtues, so not striving for that is a little strange to me. But I ultimately don't feel justified in judging it too much.

 

[Team Alucard]

The WSJ is such a shit-tier rag

I have several co-workers in their late 20s who make $60,000 a year and still live with their parents which is definitely enough to move out in Texas. They save $$ by paying almost nothing in rent and utilities, have a hot meal and someone doing their laundry. One guy finally moved out.. to an apartment a mile away and his Asian parents drop off groceries, meals and laundry every week or two.

Where in Texas? Because 60k isn't a lot in DFW.

 

[SaviorX]

Different cultures have different ideas about multi-generational households and what parents should provide for their kids. I was raised with the idea that self-sufficiency and financial independence are virtues, so not striving for that is a little strange to me too. But I ultimately don't feel justified in judging it too much.

I'd imagine in some cultures, these parents have been in the workforce for decades. Just because their children moved out doesn't mean they don't want to hear from or see their adult children anymore.

It doesn't behoove someone to spend $1500 a month on rent food and travel if mom is willing to let them stay a while and save money.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I have several co-workers in their late 20s who make $60,000 a year and still live with their parents which is definitely enough to move out in Texas. They save $$ by paying almost nothing in rent and utilities, have a hot meal and someone doing their laundry. One guy finally moved out.. to an apartment a mile away and his Asian parents drop off groceries, meals and laundry every week or two.

I work with a guy in his 30s making that money who still lives at home with his parents. He seems to spend all his money on his motorcycle. Which seems stupid here in Michigan where you can't drive it a third of the year.

 

[Omadahl]

That's my stupid fucking senator for you. He's been all talk on Trump as well.

 

[entremet]

Paywall

 

[Biske]

America... keep being dumb as hell.


Why band together with your family, pool your resources and care, when you can be shamed into living alone and be much worse off, its the american way!



Its always hilarious hearing friends talk about how poor they are and how they can't afford shit, all while living in a luxurious shoebox filled nothing, but that sweet sweet independence.


Perhaps.. things change as time goes on and we shouldn't hold to some asinine standard.

 

[Amory]

America... keep being dumb as hell.


Why band together with your family, pool your resources and care, when you can be shamed into living alone and be much worse off, its the american way!



Its always hilarious hearing friends talk about how poor they are and how they can't afford shit, all while living in a luxurious shoebox filled nothing, but that sweet sweet independence.


Perhaps.. things change as time goes on and we shouldn't hold to some asinine standard.

The idea is to make your own money and live well and still not live with your parents

 

[entremet]

The idea is to make your own money and live well and still not live with your parents

He's saying this is how immigrants have built wealth. They also destroy non immigrant Americans in net worth.

These immigrants kids arent pissing their money away. They're saving.

Funny enough, Americans are headed in that direction.

 

[The Greek Freak]

Until I started a small risky (but going well) business with my wife.

I had a similar education to my father but it literally cost 20 times more.
I had a similar level job after leaving college as my father but adjusted for inflation it piad 25% less.

Once you factor in rent/housing costs in the area I wouldn't have been able to move out if I wasn't with my then gf and we could split costs.

 

[nullref]

It doesn't behoove someone to spend $1500 a month on rent food and travel if mom is willing to let them stay a while and save money.

It's definitely economically rational; I wouldn't argue with that. I'd maybe argue that some economic hardship and distance has some value in terms of personal growth, but that's a pro/con choice people can make for themselves.

 

[suaveric]

My wife and I make almost 200k and can barely afford a house in a decent school district in Atlanta. The housing prices are through the roof. Any decent home is sold in hours for 30k over an already inflated asking price.

I thought Atlanta had pretty reasonable housing costs, especially compared to other larger cities. At 200k a year you should be able to comfortably afford a 450-500k house, does that not get you a lot anymore?

 

[FyreWulff]

sasse needs to shut his ignorant ass mouth, considering he's in a heavily immigrant state which has always run 3 generations deep in each house for social and practical reasons. can't wait until we unelect his ladder ass

 

[Foffy]

The idea is to make your own money and live well and still not live with your parents

It's an increasingly bad and insoluble idea to harp it today.

Think of all of the other ideas that go along with it: owning property, owning a car, having a stable full-time job.

All of the above is more decoupled from Millennials than their previous generations, by a significant margin.

How can one live well in the usual ideals of "individual freedom" when one's life is increasingly precarious? People start blaming themselves for the failings, but not systemic trends.

The archetypes for the "good life" in America are nothing more than myths and flukes today, not norms. People like Sasse do not get this.

 

[Biske]

The idea is to make your own money and live well and still not live with your parents

Why does that preclude living with your family?

If its possible to live well with my own money (which is increasingly a fairytale tossed out to poor people, bootstraps!)

Why not all of us live together and live super well!


A lot of my friends get help from.... their parents all the time, they go off on their own, get massive debt, get sick, car breaks down, whatever and they are in need of a massive bail out. We can pretend its independence and great for everyone.

But seems far better to stick together and create your own safety net for each other.

Why struggle to buy my own house, as my parents are struggling to buy theirs still, and on and on and on. Its not a sustainable system.




I know the meme is just some fat right wing idiot living in the basement with no job, but turns out you can work and contribute to the families expenses and build a nice life.


Or all be in massive debt desperately and lonely. Eh.

 

[Karsticles]

I came for insight, and found conservative memes.

 

[wrestleman]

Perpetual adolescence

I feel like this shit is what gets me the most. LMAO, oh yeah, because the problem is that people are immature. Okay. K. Good job, guys.

 

[makingmusic476]

economicanxietyeconomicanxietyeconomicanxiety

But our kids? Nah, they're just poor decision makers.

 

[yanipheonu]

Disregarding economy is straight up laughable. They really are out of touch.

It does strike me that the culture of America has little in place for “coming of age". People don't seem to become adults, they simply graduate and do the same thing they were doing before.

What is maturity? When is someone actually an adult? There's drinking ages, and legal statuses as adults, but its not exactly a grand launching point for the rest of your life.

I remember having a bit of a crisis post-high school of not knowing if I was an adult or not. And when you look at cultures actually having coming of age ceremonies and having cultural weight over adulthood, I realize America has done a poor job of instilling what it means to be an adult in people.

Doesn't help that supposedly mature people do some childish stuff. Adulthood doesn't really mean anything to me. I'm more concerned with people's intelligence and wisdom. Maturity doesn't seem to mean anything.

 

[YaBish]

On the plus side of all this, I found out there's a lot more of Nebraska-Gaf than I thought existed.

On the down side, Sasse is still our senator :/

 

[Biske]

Disregarding economy is straight up laughable. They really are out of touch.

It does strike me that the culture of America has little in place for “coming of age". People don't seem to become adults, they simply graduate and do the same thing they were doing before.

What is maturity? When is someone actually an adult? There's drinking ages, and legal statuses as adults, but its not exactly a grand launching point for the rest of your life.

I remember having a bit of a crisis post-high school of not knowing if I was an adult or not. And when you look at cultures actually having coming of age ceremonies and having cultural weight over adulthood, I realize America has done a poor job of instilling what it means to be an adult in people.

Doesn't help that supposedly mature people do some childish stuff. Adulthood doesn't really mean anything to me. I'm more concerned with people's intelligence and wisdom. Maturity doesn't seem to mean anything.

When our president is 70 years old and still not an adult, being an adult in America is indeed truly meaningless. All the values and morality they spout has led directly to Donald Trump.


"fuck you, got mine" That's the only concept that matters in America. I'll be damned if I'm going to listen to some republican shit heel tell me what being an adult is when his party's president is Donald Trump. All these white glass house motherfuckers can shut the fuck up about every issue and step off the soap box.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

I think this analysis also misses the extent to which the parents are living in the kids home as much as the kids are living in the parents home. All the problems besetting young people - increased rents, stagnant wages, poor economy - hit the adults at least partially. The upper middle class kids going back home after college are probably moochers to a significant extent, but I know more than one millennial working service jobs that contribute as much income to the household as their parents. My boyfriend's mom is moving in with us in a few weeks because the alternative is to stay in a trailer park.

The economics of the situation is that the optimal household size is somewhere from 3-6 people. People doing well economically can pay if they'd rather live alone before starting a new a family, but the rest of us are going to have to make do. You can do roommates, but on the whole, a family member that you've known for years is going to be much more reliable, less of a security risk, and at least for some of us more pleasant to be around.