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September 2010 NPD "Results" [Up3: Dead Rising 2, Metroid, Kingdom Hearts Numbers]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
PhoenixDark
Banned
:lol
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
iammeiam said:
It's been said before, but please, how exactly would have NPD releasing full sales data have had any change to the verifiability of European sales figures?
Psychotext
Member
Second, last time was (unsurprisingly) September 2009.gofreak said:
les papillons sexuels said:
les papillons sexuels said:
Oh, come on.les papillons sexuels said:
Do you work at "the chartz"?
In any case, you do know that the one that started that site (ioi) was originally a member from here and was banned from here for that very same reason? (well one of the reasons at least).
Is part of why the site is also banned from here.
So the "proof" is way beyond the already posted pictures of different numbers, etc. There is a history with the "founder" from there; from way before that site was even created. So is not like many decided to one day hate on it.
Rocket Punch
Member
Fuck NPD!
Look what you have done! Look at us!!!
R.I.P. Sales Age. We hardly knew ye.
Look what you have done! Look at us!!!
R.I.P. Sales Age. We hardly knew ye.
perfectchaos007
Member
gofreak said:
nah if they beat the Wii they would have released their numbers for sure!! But I guess we'll never know.
fernoca said:Oh, come on.
Do you work at "the chartz"?
In any case, you do know that the one that started that site (ioi) was originally a member from here and was banned from here for that very same reason? (well one of the reasons at least).
Is part of why the site is also banned from here.
So the "proof" is way beyond the already posted pictures of different numbers, etc. There is a history with the "founder" from there; so is not like many decided to one day hate on it.
But they do. It seems like the cool thing to do, regardless of the many things that have changed in the past months there..
B-Rad Lascelle
Banned
Just for the sake of playing devil's advocate and all.
No one is going to argue that "the other site" has provided atrociously inconsistent data with NPD historically. They have.
They're even inconsistent as recently as this month... tracking Metroid: Other M ahead of Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep as one example.
But I have to think that if I was running such a site and generating quite a lot of site traffic and web ad revenue that I would make a concerted effort to improve my reporting. To get it AS accurate as possible given the limitations of certain data streams being locked out by NPD anti-competition moneyhats and other shady practices.
Can we really argue that isn't being done? Despite the inconsistency above, the other site DID track Top 10 sales for a PSP title in September. So they're not just pulling these numbers out of their ass.
Anyone quoting that site's data as gospel deserves to be mocked and ridiculed. They're banned from GAF for a reason. But I have to think some of the unmitigated RAGE some of you have for them is a little overboard as well.
If people want to go there and take whatever numbers they can get. Even wrong ones. Even ones that get corrected when proven wrong. Then let them. It's not like they're joining a cult or preaching racial intolerance or anything else. They're simply seeking out a lesser resource now that the primary one has collectively told us to fuck the hell off unless we pony up 120K.
No one is going to argue that "the other site" has provided atrociously inconsistent data with NPD historically. They have.
They're even inconsistent as recently as this month... tracking Metroid: Other M ahead of Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep as one example.
But I have to think that if I was running such a site and generating quite a lot of site traffic and web ad revenue that I would make a concerted effort to improve my reporting. To get it AS accurate as possible given the limitations of certain data streams being locked out by NPD anti-competition moneyhats and other shady practices.
Can we really argue that isn't being done? Despite the inconsistency above, the other site DID track Top 10 sales for a PSP title in September. So they're not just pulling these numbers out of their ass.
Anyone quoting that site's data as gospel deserves to be mocked and ridiculed. They're banned from GAF for a reason. But I have to think some of the unmitigated RAGE some of you have for them is a little overboard as well.
If people want to go there and take whatever numbers they can get. Even wrong ones. Even ones that get corrected when proven wrong. Then let them. It's not like they're joining a cult or preaching racial intolerance or anything else. They're simply seeking out a lesser resource now that the primary one has collectively told us to fuck the hell off unless we pony up 120K.
They still post innacurate numbers. They still have an archive of innacurate numbers.confuziz said:
But they are getting more exposure, so for many that's what matters.
ioi is probably laughing in there (or here?) because of all of this.
Soon, quoting in box-covers "6.5 million -VGChartzz"; "Game of The Year -IGN".
I do agree with this. More exposure, more revenue, more sources, more accurate numbers (maybe?).B-Rad Lascelle said:
If anything, with time it will provide some pressure to NPD to get their head out of their assess.
fernoca said:They still post innacurate numbers. They still have an archive of innacurate numbers.
But they are getting more exposure, so for many that's what matters.
ioi is probably laughing in there (or here?) because of all of this.
Soon, quoting in box-covers "6.5 million -VGChartzz"; "Game of The Year -IGN".
I don't care HOW bad it is at this moment. It's getting better and in a few months if the big 3 don't release sales at all, it's prety much everything we got, and for FREE.
We should use the GAF predictions numbers (The top guys on those threads were damn good) - massaged by suitable statistical magikery. Without getting some correcting feedback from the actual numbers we will veer off, eventually, to happy land, but sure GAF is mostly there already. We might as well put our hands behind our head, feet up on the dash, and enjoy the ride.
Sales-Age is dead; long live Sales-Age...
Sales-Age is dead; long live Sales-Age...
perfectchaos007
Member
B-Rad Lascelle said:
doesn't NPD do some guestimating themselves? I don't think they get numbers directly from Wal-Mart and a few other outlets if I'm not mistaken. All I know is that NPD is not the omnipotent source for gaming sales data. No source is because of the lack of having information from all retailers. I'm sure on some occasions ioi got closer on the actual numbers than NPD did. We will never know however, because it's near impossible to know exactly how many units of an item were sold accross the country.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
iammeiam said:
Actually, it says 1.5 million "(Move) units", which, again, might or might not include subcontrollers (if I was in their shoes, I'd count them, why not?).
But let's not forget that NPD numbers didn't go away, they are just not public anymore. It leaves more room for spin, sure, but if someone goes overboard with it, competing NPD customers will certainly call them out.
Psychotext
Member
They seem to mention wal-mart quite a bit on their site. Are we sure they don't track them these days?perfectchaos007 said:
http://www.npd.com/corpServlet?nextpage=entertainment-categories_s.html
perfectchaos007
Member
Psychotext said:
maybe they do now, I haven't gotten updated on that. Doesn't matter any more though for us *sigh*
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Fucking pathetic. Now there's even less transparency in this forsaken industry.
The worst thing of all though is not only that we have less numbers to work with, but now VGchartzz is gonna become even more widely utilised.
How utterly terrifying is it to think that a publisher as large as Square Enix would even resort to using VGchartzz numbers (and this was back when we were getting NPD figures at least!)
Only gonna get worse from here on out.
Still, to keep on topic. Bravo to Microsoft, they've really managed to turn their monthly sales around (no doubt buoyed by Halo Reach).
As for Sony, their actions are very telling. Their European numbers for Move are only shipments (and probably include the subcontroller, the Move console bundle and the Starter Pack on top of the solus pack) and they've mentioned nothing regarding US sales. Their software sales in Europe for Move have also been disappointing (with only Sports Champions selling decently. Oh and while we're at that, where are any of the Move games on this chart here? - hell it's even favourable to worse selling games since SKUs are combined!)
I'm not gonna join in on the conspiracies here
The worst thing of all though is not only that we have less numbers to work with, but now VGchartzz is gonna become even more widely utilised.
How utterly terrifying is it to think that a publisher as large as Square Enix would even resort to using VGchartzz numbers (and this was back when we were getting NPD figures at least!)
Only gonna get worse from here on out.
Still, to keep on topic. Bravo to Microsoft, they've really managed to turn their monthly sales around (no doubt buoyed by Halo Reach).
As for Sony, their actions are very telling. Their European numbers for Move are only shipments (and probably include the subcontroller, the Move console bundle and the Starter Pack on top of the solus pack) and they've mentioned nothing regarding US sales. Their software sales in Europe for Move have also been disappointing (with only Sports Champions selling decently. Oh and while we're at that, where are any of the Move games on this chart here? - hell it's even favourable to worse selling games since SKUs are combined!)
I'm not gonna join in on the conspiracies here
(psst, it's probably Sony)
I wonder if they could use a loophole to release competitors data?
Say for example Microsoft were to go "we sold 483,989 units of the Xbox 360 this month, which was 41% higher than PS3" or something similar. Technically they wouldn't be releasing any actual sales figures but we could all figure it out.
Say for example Microsoft were to go "we sold 483,989 units of the Xbox 360 this month, which was 41% higher than PS3" or something similar. Technically they wouldn't be releasing any actual sales figures but we could all figure it out.
Sorry, I know someone is just going to respond to this with a gif or something but I can't see a definitive comment on the subject...
Are we now only ever going to get this stupid combined, all formats software chart?
They won't even do the old individual formats version? Thereby making direct comparisons to previous weeks impossible?
Are we now only ever going to get this stupid combined, all formats software chart?
They won't even do the old individual formats version? Thereby making direct comparisons to previous weeks impossible?
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Nuclear Muffin said:
Wouldn't you think that large publishers such as Square Enix are already paying NPD customers? Why would they have to resort to using the Chartz numbers?
Well, at least internally, I'm sure they would be more than happy to quote inflated Chartz numbers to the public.
MightyHedgehog
Member
That wouldn't happen, Sean. A third party leak is all we're probably gonna get if the publishers and manufacturers don't share. I figure that this is only going to be this annoying for a limited amount of time before leaks become commonplace and big, like they once were in the happier NPD days of GAF.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
They used Chartz numbers in a financial report back in 2009 (and I remember seeing VG Chartz as a source in one of their investor relations slides but I can't seem to find it right now)
I don't know why they would not use NPD numbers - unless they thought that the VG Chartz numbers were real (GOD FORBID!) and that they would save money by just using the Chartz numbers, but the fact of the matter is that it has already happened on a number of occasions.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Nuclear Muffin said:
Ouch. It's strange that such a big company can be so unprofessional, that can only hurt their business.
Nuclear Muffin said:
Even if Sony was behind this, you really think this was some last minute rush to hush-up September numbers specifically?
This is the month they beat Wii :lol Move software not charting doesn't tell us anything about its performance since the SC bundle was categorised as an accessory, not counted as software. Even if NPD had done their normal data release we'd be none the wiser about it, its performance would still have been obsfucated for all intents and purposes.
So I'm not sure what Sony would be trying to hide here.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
gofreak said:
Exactly. And even if we got the exact Move numbers, we would still only have limited insight into the level of its success. What matters to publishers is how many households are equipped with the accessory, and there's no way to know how many people bought more than one controller. It's going to be much simpler with Kinect, although we might not get those numbers either.
I'm sure NA Move sales were reasonably good, but not spectacular. If it was a smash hit, Sony would be shouting from the rooftops. But conspiracy theories were funny before with Microsoft, and they're funny now with Sony.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
gofreak said:
Well Move accessories were still outsold by 360 and PS3 point cards (but that wasn't really hushed up) Not exactly indicative of good sales (plus Sony have not mentioned anything about US shipments of Move at all)
Well, I'm done here. I'm not joining in on the conspiracy discussions anymore since there's nothing else to talk about (and big brother is watching)
All we can do is pray for leaks.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Nuclear Muffin said:
Is that surprising, though? Those cards are $20 products that a lot of people buying stuff on Live or PSN need, sometimes more than one per month. I don't have the numbers myself, but does anyone know when was the last time some accessory outsold a MS point card?
MightyHedgehog
Member
And why not? At the point that it's out (anywhere on the internet), it has then become public knowledge which only the original person or persons responsible should be held liable. The cat's out of the bag at that point, proprietary info or not, practically impossible to police and shush up on the instant global communicator and repository for any and all information passed through it, the internet. Oh well.Sean said:Even if the numbers do leak out though, we're not allowed to discuss it here. So I guess that's that
Psychotext
Member
360 and Wii controllers have done it a few times. I'm sure someone will be bored enough to trawl the old data for exact info.REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Edit - PS3 controllers did it as well in February 09. I'd guess on other occasions too.
B-Rad Lascelle
Banned
I don't know. I think I'd rather cut back on costs at this point and use the free data instead of spending 120K/year on extortionists.REMEMBER CITADEL said:
It's not like anyone is going to know you're using the slightly less accurate/more bogus sales performance data anyhow. Unless they're also paying 120K to extortionists.
Somehow I doubt Square Enix investors are doing that. They'd prefer to spend more money on Square Enix stock and Square Enix would rather spend more money on non-interactive CGI movie sequences.
(Sure sounds like FFXIV could have used the extra 120K.)
vicissitudes
Banned
Edit: reposting on a new page.