-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
September Wrasslin' |OT| because Triple H is good for business
- Thread starter Kaladin
- Start date
Their attendance plummeted, their buy rates tanked, they owed millions of dollars in make up ads both from the ratings dropping like a stone and from cutting that hour from Nitro, they had a ton of people on payroll, tons of failed media partnerships, almost no take from houseshows, a ton of really expensive, really bad celebrity contracts (Master P made more money then everyone besides Hogan, Swoll was in the top twenty) and many more things. They easily could have lost that much money all on their own. No one bought WCW merch at all in 1999 and 2000.
Watching NXT right now. Is it wrong that Corey Graves' pants preclude me from ever taking him seriously?
Woods has a similar problem with his Morphin' Time shout before his big moves (isn't that copyright infringement?) but that feels like something developmental will weed out in time.
Woods has a similar problem with his Morphin' Time shout before his big moves (isn't that copyright infringement?) but that feels like something developmental will weed out in time.
Lol, this crowd is on fire for Breeze.
Yup, I've SEEN the PPV's from 1999 and 2000, you can't say that was even watchable.
It's what med school does to you.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Stevie Ray and Scott Norton were both making over $1 million.
Also, WCW paid Lanny Poffo a total of almost $2 million to do absolutely nothing from 1995-1999. He didn't show up on WCW TV once ever.
Also, WCW paid Lanny Poffo a total of almost $2 million to do absolutely nothing from 1995-1999. He didn't show up on WCW TV once ever.
I have 3 people inside of me, 3 voices.
They all came out one at a time and gave you minus 5 stars.
You're out of the roster Soul.
WCW also lost money in 1998. I can understand losing money in the last 2 years, but 1998? I think they might also have barely made money in 1997. I think there was some tax shenanigans going on. Then again, they were TERRIBLE at scheduling house shows from a travel stand point. Nitro would be in Houston and a house show the next night would be in Arkansas. Shit like that happened all the time. And they ran the smallest places possible for house shows. There was nothing at all rare or unusual for them to run a place like the Astro Dome or Georgia Dome for Nitro, and run a 1200 seat place the next night.
Money gets eaten up rather quickly when it's not properly budgeted. I forget who made the comment but WCW, for all it's size and spending from Tuner, still acted like a regional promotion with such big show/small show planning or with a merchandise centre actually just someone's home in Georgia state for a long time and then poorly outsourced later on.
WWE was smart because it tried to do as much as it possibly could internally. It spent the money to learn how to film for themselves, it took the time to have it's own pyro crew, it set up exactly how to manage a national and then international system for merchandise, video, etc. WCW rented services, hired contractors, had a huge turnaround of people for technical jobs due to poor working conditions, etc. The joke about Jericho's toys ringing up as Hogan's or Nash's figure instead wasn't top talent keeping a young guy down, it was a symptom of horrible logistics.
I don't want any more WCW shoot videos from bookers or wrestlers, I want some from those who ran the merchandise, the videos, the music, the runners (guys who get paid to go buy, rent, service, whatever for talent). From what little we do have, it was Business 101 of how not to do it. WCW didn't even make money off any of the video games and they were quite successful.
If someone could have just reigned it all in, controlled the spending, not constantly hired people who would be fully paid no matter what, constantly spent money on things they didn't need (useless pyro, constant minor set changes, free beer for a lot of the talent, random hired models to stand around the stadium for "looks", etc), it's amazing to think just how big WCW could have been. Especially if they only wanted to compete with WWE, not drive them out of business.
WWE was smart because it tried to do as much as it possibly could internally. It spent the money to learn how to film for themselves, it took the time to have it's own pyro crew, it set up exactly how to manage a national and then international system for merchandise, video, etc. WCW rented services, hired contractors, had a huge turnaround of people for technical jobs due to poor working conditions, etc. The joke about Jericho's toys ringing up as Hogan's or Nash's figure instead wasn't top talent keeping a young guy down, it was a symptom of horrible logistics.
I don't want any more WCW shoot videos from bookers or wrestlers, I want some from those who ran the merchandise, the videos, the music, the runners (guys who get paid to go buy, rent, service, whatever for talent). From what little we do have, it was Business 101 of how not to do it. WCW didn't even make money off any of the video games and they were quite successful.
If someone could have just reigned it all in, controlled the spending, not constantly hired people who would be fully paid no matter what, constantly spent money on things they didn't need (useless pyro, constant minor set changes, free beer for a lot of the talent, random hired models to stand around the stadium for "looks", etc), it's amazing to think just how big WCW could have been. Especially if they only wanted to compete with WWE, not drive them out of business.
Let's see how well Soul holds up eight months from now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GijYu648aRc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GijYu648aRc
Serpentine
Banned
I kinda wonder how most of these people's gimmicks will go once they get called up, like Woods, Bo, Emma, etc. Maybe Graves and Breeze, too, if crowds decide that they're too similar to Punk and Fandango respectively.
He's essentially wearing jeggings, so it's most definitely not wrong
Not quite everyone, but just about. A lot of guys who show up in hope that they would be used and half the time they would be paid just for being there or at least be taken care of for food, beer, sometimes board.
I can't find any credible sources for WCW's profits. According to Bischoff they made around 50 million in 1998. Death of WCW doesn't give a figure but mentions that they pre sold every house show from late 1997 until the middle of 1999 within minutes of announcing, and that the buyrates and gates were especially good.
The Frankman
Banned
EVERYONE hates Russo, but somehow Bischoff escaped the same scorn.
TOM f'N CRUISE
Member
where do i sing up??
I hate Russo a lot but guess what? The half of 99 without him booking and the period in between his times helming the company are far, far worse. Rudderless, pointless, directionless,
It's part of the reason why I want stro to do 1999. It's the real most interesting year in the WCW saga.
It's part of the reason why I want stro to do 1999. It's the real most interesting year in the WCW saga.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Kevin Nash booking WCW from January 1999-August 1999 was the exact opposite of Russo's chaos. A total snoozefest.
Graves < Punk but Breeze is a better Fandango than Fandango. He knows how to talk to another human being while in character. All Fandango ever does is pull up a Mass Effect style conversation wheel where the only two options are "(dance poorly)" and "It's FAN! DAHN! GOH!" But yeah, WWE will probably side with the guy they spent all of that money on for the in-ring pyro frame, regardless of said wrestler's ability to do anything worthwhile in said ring. It still baffles me that, solely due to a bored New Jersey crowd, the WWE invested more in the guy whose unofficial gimmick is unnecessary intentional countouts than they did in the other guy who got a major reaction that night.
I can see both Bo and Emma's gimmicks making it to RAW. Bo's is custom made for his lack of charisma and getting him a first-night cheap US title victory (ala Curtis Axel's debut) would be a good way to have some hilarious face-v-fauxce interactions that would actually breathe some life into that title scene. Emma's gimmick is completely inoffensive to the current state of affairs. Free spirit doing her thing while political
Woods' gimmick...it's interesting, but also flat and uneven. Man's got some in ring charisma, but his stupid somersault clothesline requires no-selling neck, leg and arm injuries when he does it and it's Kofi-level in terms of buildup and payoff. I can't imagine the gimmick as it stands right now won't see some changes inside NXT, let alone before hitting RAW.
Which is such bullshit because the free fall started in the middle of 1998 and was unsalvageable by the Summer of 1999, which was before Russo ever showed up. And once Russo took over, ratings actually went up a little. Then he was gone by January, back in April, and gone by October or November. He gets so much blame for WCW, and I'm not a fan of him, but dude has been railroaded for years over his role in an already near death WCW. Vince McMahon himself couldn't save WCW.
Mr. Enigma
Member
lol yeah. After about a month, nWo 2000 was Jeff Jarrett & The Harris Brothers.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Yep, you're right. Russo's first WCW run from October 1999 to January 2000 was actually watchable, mainly because he had a lot of people up top to filter him. The rating for the last Nitro before he showed up was a 2.6 and the rating for the final Nitro he did was a 3.4.
But then he came back, all the up-top people were fired, and was given complete control of everything, even hiring/firing people.
Serpentine
Banned
Maybe Emma should debut as a heel, like in NXT, and let the audience catch on themselves. At the same time, i think Bo would actually get over as the underdog babyface they want him to be, unless i'm underestimating the WWE Universe.
Woods is pretty one-dimensional, yeah, but he seems to be waaaaaaaaaaaaay more charismatic than dudes like Kofi Kingston, which will go a long way. But i'm sure he'll develop more while he's on NXT, it's not like he's getting called up tomorrow. And yeah he should totally stop doing that somersault clothesline
It's possible that a true genius and a lot of hard work (and budget cutting) could have seen WCW through in 1999. Not remotely likely, but possible. I do agree completely that a lot of the damage was done by the end of 1998, especially ruining Goldberg, but it was really the first month of 1999 that painted the picture for the eventual failure.
Bischoff had a deal in place with NBC (who actually had quite a nice ratings boost during the bits with WCW in 1998) for six primetime sunday shows that would air on NBC against various WWF ppvs. The first one was going to air against St. Valentine's Day Massacre. So as part of the lead up to this he goes out on the first Nitro after tentatively signing this deal and starts acting quite a bit like he did in 1996; namely by spoiling the results of a taped RAW and reforming the NWO. We all know how that turned out. Then a few weeks later the NBC deal falls through. This is also when WCW starts really increasing the amount of pre taped backstage nonsense that they were never any good at and decided to not show any of this to the announcers making them sound like buffoons. This is also the height of the NWO B Team. I hope you like Stevie Ray promos (To be honest, I do! Dude is hilarious!)
WCW was savable when Russo took over, but only just barely. They still had a great young roster and a proper version of the new bloods storyline with, you know, the old guard as heels and pushing the right members of the mid card could have worked.
They still would have been fucked in the end by no longer having the aegis of uncle Ted but it wouldn't have been the total disaster it turned out to be. Would have come closer to breaking even then the 15 million they lost that year.
I don't think I can handle it. I really don't. It's so mentally exhausting, which becomes emotionally exhausting. If I could get paid to do it, I would. But I really don't want to put myself through that shit. I did it once years ago and, as I've said before, late Spring-Summer WCW in 1999 is about the most awful shit ever.
The Frankman
Banned
Positives about WCW 1999:
Rap is Crap
Torrie Wilson Debuts
Lil Naitch nickname
Scott Steiner no showing a "surprise" steroids test due to a back problem that magically cured itself the next day.
Crazy Ric Flair (the best part of the entire year, youtube these if you haven't seen it before)
international objects
Sid's winning streak.
Bret/Benoit's Owen tribute match
Kevin Nash's final show as booker is hilarious.
Dr. Claw Russo.
Rap is Crap
Torrie Wilson Debuts
Lil Naitch nickname
Scott Steiner no showing a "surprise" steroids test due to a back problem that magically cured itself the next day.
Crazy Ric Flair (the best part of the entire year, youtube these if you haven't seen it before)
international objects
Sid's winning streak.
Bret/Benoit's Owen tribute match
Kevin Nash's final show as booker is hilarious.
Dr. Claw Russo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EEolERSdpc
This doesn't do a great job of showing it but Vince Russo in 1999 didn't appear on camera, well, most of him didn't. Only his hand and his voice.
He was the "Powers that Be' with his enforcers, the great and talented Harris Brothers as his "Creative Control"
This doesn't do a great job of showing it but Vince Russo in 1999 didn't appear on camera, well, most of him didn't. Only his hand and his voice.
He was the "Powers that Be' with his enforcers, the great and talented Harris Brothers as his "Creative Control"
When Russo first took over, he did this thing where he was "The Powers That Be" and was only on screen by voice. Wrestlers would have meetings with him, but we'd only see the meetings from his point of view. Occasionally you'd see his hands. He didn't appear on screen until the reboot.
I'd do WCW 1999 if I got paid/legitshook.com got ads that got Sunny paid and he paid contributors. I don't think I can handle it for free.
Also, GTA5 is exactly what I was hoping for with GTA4.
I'd do WCW 1999 if I got paid/legitshook.com got ads that got Sunny paid and he paid contributors. I don't think I can handle it for free.
Also, GTA5 is exactly what I was hoping for with GTA4.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Always forget how hot Kimberly was.
Reneledarker
Banned
Gaming GAF is so ridiculous, the guys expecting MH frontier for the Vita to save the system are so sad. They don even know what MH frontier is XD
Anyway, good NXT show.
Anyway, good NXT show.
Explains how random the WCW mid-card and low-card was sometimes.
Holy crap that's wacky.
Isn't this around the time Hogan started using his real name and stuff or was that the reboot?
The worst WCW stable to me has to be the various Dungeon of Doom/Faces of Fear/First Family group. I consider them to be a continuation of the same group. They were all terrible. As much as I like Meng and Barbarian knocking the shit out of people, they weren't that good in WCW. This is particularly a bummer since Barb was a highly capable big man. But when you add Beefcake, a decade past prime Sullivan, Kamala, Zeus, Bane, ultra green Giant, THE YETAAY, way past prime Earthquake, and whatever ex WWF guys they could bring in, it easily is the worst to me.
NWO Silver is probably a close second since it so quickly became Jeff Jarrett and the Harris Brothers.
Really, all nWo groups after 1997 count as terrible to me.
That was during the reboot.
NWO Silver is probably a close second since it so quickly became Jeff Jarrett and the Harris Brothers.
Really, all nWo groups after 1997 count as terrible to me.
That was during the reboot.
British Monsoon
Member
The mystery CMLL guy on the upcoming New Japan iPPV is Mascara Dorada, so now the match is; Togi Makabe, Mascara Dorada, Tomoaki Honma & Captain New Japan vs BULLET CLUB (Karl Anderson, Rey Bucanero, Bad Luck Fale & Tama Tonga).
Plus, Prince Devitt vs Hiroshi Tanahashi will now be a 'Lumberjack Deathmatch' - they've had one before in New Japan, it's pretty much just a lumberjack match, but the lumberjacks can use weapons. Tanahashi has said that to defeat Devitt he'll be wearing his face-paint again, becoming 'rude Tanahashi' (there has to be a better translation, lol), which I guess means he's super serious, or something;
Plus, Prince Devitt vs Hiroshi Tanahashi will now be a 'Lumberjack Deathmatch' - they've had one before in New Japan, it's pretty much just a lumberjack match, but the lumberjacks can use weapons. Tanahashi has said that to defeat Devitt he'll be wearing his face-paint again, becoming 'rude Tanahashi' (there has to be a better translation, lol), which I guess means he's super serious, or something;
aLaxLuthor
Member
In the Steve Austin podcast Nash mentions that Turner had WCW set up to lose money, implied it was a tax thing.
I don't know what the specifics of it are, but they did seem to spend a huge amount. I mean just to spend $80 million in one year would be a challenge, but to lose it when you have revenue coming in seems insane.
I'm not saying it was well run, and I'm sure he was known as ATM Eric for a reason, but I am willing to say that there's more to it than meets the eye.
Also nWo silver was the worst. It had potential because it had top level people in it (minus the Harris brothers), but the wheels came off pretty damn quick,
I don't know what the specifics of it are, but they did seem to spend a huge amount. I mean just to spend $80 million in one year would be a challenge, but to lose it when you have revenue coming in seems insane.
I'm not saying it was well run, and I'm sure he was known as ATM Eric for a reason, but I am willing to say that there's more to it than meets the eye.
Also nWo silver was the worst. It had potential because it had top level people in it (minus the Harris brothers), but the wheels came off pretty damn quick,
Mr. Luchador
Member
Legitshook.com the place to put our wrestling recaps now?