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[akira__]

Let's start by acknowledging that everyone has biases and preferences, and that's fine.

While it's acceptable for Digital Foundry to have a bias, there's a threshold for acceptable levels, and the video in question clearly exceeds that.
Just a few days ago, they claimed they created similar PC settings and achieved comparable performance with Wukong.

They used an RX 6700, FSR, and 1080p resolution.

Anyone with working eyes can see it's not nearly the same image quality, and the framerate is 10% behind.
Yet they keep acting as if it's the same performance, which is really bizarre.



Richard even mentioned PS5 has low textures, maybe it's for new glasses.

Lately they have been passing that bespoke threshold of acceptable bias reporting.

They didn't study computer science, and are often confused of their own results. Experts aren't usually confused by the outcomes.






Edit: I'm not making the case that anyone shouldn't enjoy their content. WWE can be very entertaining, yet it will be with a clear understanding of the reality of the content.

Please watch the video before stating they are not biased.


EDIT 2: Should they be treated as vgzcharts? Or maybe a step above?

EDIT 3:
TheAssist assisted with a suggestion for a disclaimer for DF.

"Digital Foundry not experts but much better then the average online poster"


EDIT 4:
Dear overlord mods, please edit the title of the thread. Should've ended with question mark instead of a dot.

EDIT 5:
The goal was to start a serious discussion, This comment creates a great summary of the issues at play.

We shouldn't forget that there are real people creating games. Having narratives and biases pushing them out can have real and lasting effects.
On studio's and the people that work for them.

EDIT 6:
Special thanks to E evanft for actually reading the thread.

> Five edits on a post is wild.

Serious discussion. Should DF be treated as biased source?

As mentioned, I got home and took two screenshots. Both are max settings, with FSR set to 100% in both cases. Frame generation is disabled as well. The only difference is sharpening, one has it enabled at the default setting while the other has it disabled. I think it's quite clear what...

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[Nitty_Grimes]

He (Richard) should relaunch Mean Machines with Julian Rignall.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

why watch them? everyone knows their extreme bias for years now, it's nothing new. giving clicks keeps them in the business, so vote with your... attention

 

[Ozzie666]

100% yes.

Sometimes I think they do more harm than good and fuel the flames.

They avoided the difficult review likes Hogwarts didn't they due the preceived poltical hot potatoe? Guess what, your there to do a technical unbiased review, it shouldn't matter outside the game.
Wukong was okay though?

Alex is unbearable, Sony obviously hurt him personally and he is so jaded. The man can't bare to compliment Sony, it would kill him.
John is great for retro and when he doesn't suddently back down to possible backlash from the modern audience, but he doesn't play open world games ..

Paritally kidding, I do appreciate what they do, but I do think at times they are Bias, not Cold Eastwood level though.

 

[Fabieter]

Alex also loves comparing things with his 2070s while using DLSS performance mode, which makes any comparison pointless. However, I stopped caring about Digital Foundry when I found out that Alex is highly political on social media. It's also the main reason I dislike him on general.

 

[RagnarokIV]

No, Wichard is a top geezer.
Mr potato head is alright too, most of the time.
Is the school girl guy who is most biased.

 

[Success]

You are on GAF.

Of course people will agree with you.

Rule of thumb, if ResetEra likes it, GAF will usually be against it.

 

[winjer]

Let's start by acknowledging that everyone has biases and preferences, and that's fine.

While it's acceptable for Digital Foundry to have a bias, there's a threshold for acceptable levels, and the video in question clearly exceeds that.
Just a few days ago, they claimed they created similar PC settings and achieved comparable performance with Wukong.

They used an RX 6700, FSR, and 1080p resolution.

Anyone with working eyes can see it's not nearly the same image quality, and the framerate is 10% behind.
Yet they keep acting as if it's the same performance, which is really bizarre.



Richard even mentioned PS5 has low textures, maybe it's for new glasses.

Lately they have been passing that bespoke threshold of acceptable bias reporting.

They didn't study computer science, and are often confused of their own results. Experts aren't usually confused by the outcomes.

Your mistake is thinking they are tech experts.
But yes, DF is biased in several ways.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

John Linneman is the only thing I like about DF these days.

Alex squirming at PS5 Pro analysis over the next few months should be fun though

 

[akira__]

why watch them? everyone knows their extreme bias for years now, it's nothing new. giving clicks keeps them in the business, so vote with your... attention

I don't think it's widely known. For example every now and again we still see vgcharts pop up. Even though that has been clear for a decade.

Should df get the same treatment as vgcharts?

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

I don't think it's widely known. For example every now and again we still see vgcharts pop up. Even though that has been clear for a decade.

Should df get the same treatment as vgcharts?

Honestly I have no idea why vgcharts is banned here, haven't been there for ages and ages, but always seemed somewhat reliable for sales data. Definitely a lot worse the type of misinformation digital foundry spreads. Not in favor of bans though as a general rule.

 

[Fabieter]

I don't think it's widely known. For example every now and again we still see vgcharts pop up. Even though that has been clear for a decade.

Should df get the same treatment as vgcharts?

 

[MacReady13]

Alex also loves comparing things with his 2070s while using DLSS performance mode, which makes any comparison pointless. However, I stopped caring about Digital Foundry when I found out that Alex is highly political on social media. It's also the main reason I dislike him on general.

Yeah Alex is a fuckhead. Not a fan at all. The other main guys are ok (John is a bit of an overly sensitive sook) but other than that, I don’t take much of what they say too serious. Frame rates and zooming in on backgrounds to see inconsistencies?! No thanks! I’ll enjoy playing games and not studying the screen

 

[DAHGAMING]

No, Wichard is a top geezer.
Mr potato head is alright too, most of the time.
Is the school girl guy who is most biased.

Im with you, there top boys, all i wear now days is there Bespoke merch hehehe. Love there testing on the old Frankenshtine pc hohoho.

 

[Soodanim]

I've seen people allege that DF are biased to towards every side you could think of, so I tend not to put much stock in these opinions.

The only bias I know exists is the one against DF.

 

[Fahdis]

They all need to brush and fix their teeth.

 

[Zug]

Every source should be treated as a biased source, until scientifically proven otherwise (which is way too resource-intensive for most topics, especially video games)

 

[PeteBull]

There are times DF has stupid takes and can be biased, thats why as an inteligent human being and veteran gamer just look at their work/info they provide but draw ur own conclusions.
Examples of their most biased/stupid vid is how they recommend and praised series s


And how they thought ps5pr0 isnt needed(ofc they changed their opinions only few months later

there were also stupid takes from alex and john about ps5pr0 in one of the df directs but i dont feel like looking for it atm, u guys can find it on ur own tho xD

 

[akira__]

I've seen people allege that DF are biased to towards every side you could think of, so I tend not to put much stock in these opinions.

The only bias I know exists is the one against DF.

Two questions. did you see the video in question? If yes how is your eyesight?

Seriously question, like I said there is threshold. Within that threshold we can have fun and games. But that video is pure fanboy level drivel.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

I've seen people allege that DF are biased to towards every side you could think of, so I tend not to put much stock in these opinions.

The only bias I know exists is the one against DF.

the constant ball washing they give microsoft and their xbox consoles is quite a sight to behold... it's not biased to point it out when it's obvious to see

 

[Stu_Hart]

They never appeared as overly biased to me. I don't agree with everything, but they are not that bad. I enjoy their vids.

 

[Fabieter]

Yeah Alex is a fuckhead. Not a fan at all. The other main guys are ok (John is a bit of an overly sensitive sook) but other than that, I don’t take much of what they say too serious. Frame rates and zooming in on backgrounds to see inconsistencies?! No thanks! I’ll enjoy playing games and not studying the screen

I always enjoyed John's retro stuff tho.

 

[T-0800]

He (Richard) should relaunch Mean Machines with Julian Rignall.

I came to post almost the exact same thing.

 

[Bernardougf]

Yes they are bias, just like 98% of the mainstream media, for one reason or another, just collect any kind of info you think is valid and ignore any "opinion" they might have where their bias would influence.

 

[Parazels]

Not Digital Foundry, but "Dictator" is very obsessed with PC games.
It's annoying, because I literally hate PCs, except Apple's devices.

 

[Bojji]

Let's start by acknowledging that everyone has biases and preferences, and that's fine.

While it's acceptable for Digital Foundry to have a bias, there's a threshold for acceptable levels, and the video in question clearly exceeds that.
Just a few days ago, they claimed they created similar PC settings and achieved comparable performance with Wukong.

They used an RX 6700, FSR, and 1080p resolution.

Anyone with working eyes can see it's not nearly the same image quality, and the framerate is 10% behind.
Yet they keep acting as if it's the same performance, which is really bizarre.



Richard even mentioned PS5 has low textures, maybe it's for new glasses.

Lately they have been passing that bespoke threshold of acceptable bias reporting.

They didn't study computer science, and are often confused of their own results. Experts aren't usually confused by the outcomes.

It's 10% less here, 10% more in some other game and identical in others.

6700 and PS5 GPU are not identical, plus you have different Api, drivers, operating systems etc. But 6700 is the closest match you can get.

Even in Wukong you see this:

Is that some major difference to you?

Same with XSX and PS5 comparisons, one game runs 5-10% better on one of the consoles and fanboys are like:

But when you have 100% better performance on PC:

Console fanboys are like...

So yeah, NO - they are not biased. Sony fanboys are just super insecure.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I used to like Alex but he's just goes off on endless rants these days it's so off putting . John's video are always top class even with his SONY bias and fake SEGA talk , but still his videos are a top class and quality production

Still have some time for Rich , but the trouble is they need likes & subs to make money and so you can't always be truthful and instead need to say what you think the audience wants to here with IGN paying the bills it will only get worse .

 

[M1chl]

Terminal virginity

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

But when you have 100% better performance on PC:

Console fanboys are like...

So yeah, NO - they are not biased. Sony fanboys are just super insecure.

the 100% increase is literally with the best gaming CPU available out there (with v cache), what are you trying to prove? Fuck knows what GPU they paired it up with in that screenshot above.

 

[TheAssist]

Experts aren't usually confused by the outcomes.

Thats not even remotely true. You should read up on some scientific literature and see how often groups are puzzled by their own findings. Or just pick up programming and see how often things just kinda work or dont without you knowing whats happening, even tough you call yourself a decent programmer with a degree and 10 years of experience (which I dont).

On topic. I really dont care enough. They make their points and they deliver more evidence than any single person on here. Almost everyone posting in this thread will say their opinion without watching the video in question. They just see a quote or a gif and then decide whether or not that fits their current world view and answer accordingly. How are you going to have a meaningful discussion with all these people?

Hardly anyone in here will be interested in an actual discussion, it will just come down to randomly blaming them for some self perceived bias towards....I actually dont know what exactly they are accused of, since that does seem to change from thread to thread, again, it depends whether or not they confirm ones bias or not.

Having read a few comments now, I still dont know what they are supposed to be biased towards, because as I stated above, everyone just throws a blame hammer without anything to back it up.

This is pointless. For what its worth, I think DF is less biased than most people on GAF, therefor I rather trust their "expert" opinion than most people on here.
Dont get me wrong, this is a fun place, at least most of the times, but its not a place to get an unbiased, scientific opinion on games or gaming related tech. So I dont really get why we would need this particular discussion in the first place, other than to "officially" dismiss everything DF says, unless it suddenly confirms the bias of the larger GAF hivemind.

 

[Hrk69]

Whatever you are trying to achieve

This ain't it

 

[Fabieter]

the 100% increase is literally with the best gaming CPU available out there (with v cache), what are you trying to prove? Fuck knows what GPU they paired it up with in that screenshot above.

Not only that Alex claimed years ago that the 5700 or 2070s should be considered equal and we are using 6700xt now.

Edit 6700

 

[Big Baller]

I hate their stupid thumbnails

 

[geary]

You guys acting like 2 or 3 FPS difference is big difference over 30 FPS that you can declare a winner...

 

[tommib]

There are times DF has stupid takes and can be biased, thats why as an inteligent human being and veteran gamer just look at their work/info they provide but draw ur own conclusions.
Examples of their most biased/stupid vid is how they recommend and praised series s


And how they thought ps5pr0 isnt needed(ofc they changed their opinions only few months later

there were also stupid takes from alex and john about ps5pr0 in one of the df directs but i dont feel like looking for it atm, u guys can find it on ur own tho xD

That last video is indeed sad as fuck. 13 minutes crying about how we don’t need a Pro as there are supply chain issues and no real next-gen games. Well, next-gen is here and it’s running at 720p.

Why wouldn’t you even want new hardware? Isn’t that supposed to be their thrill as tech enthusiasts?

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Not only that Alex claimed years ago that the 5700 or 2070s should be considered equal and we are using 6700xt now.

Edit 6700

That dude is definitely the biggest dipshit in there. And every time he's proven wrong, instead of admitting it, just pushes forward like a smug prick. Some people eat it up though, that's on them

 

[Shifty1897]

Getting a PC to run within 3 frames per second of a console is comparable and fine. The image quality is another situation altogether, but I don't understand the vitriol. DF does a good job telling you if a version of a game has a deal breaker in the graphics or performance department. I don't always agree with them (including Dragon Quest 11 in the Switch "best third party graphics" video when that whole game looks like someone spread icing all over my screen was a WTF moment) but I appreciate their work.

 

[Fabieter]

That dude is definitely the biggest dipshit in there. And every time he's proven wrong, instead of admitting it, just pushes forward like a smug prick. Some people eat it up though, that's on them

He knows his audience that's probably part of the reason.

 

[akira__]

It's 10% less here, 10% more in some other game and identical in others.

6700 and PS5 GPU are not identical, plus you have different Api, drivers, operating systems etc. But 6700 is the closest match you can get.

Even in Wukong you see this:

Is that some major difference to you?

Same with XSX and PS5 comparisons, one game runs 5-10% better on one of the consoles and fanboys are like:

But when you have 100% better performance on PC:

Console fanboys are like...

So yeah, NO - they are not biased. Sony fanboys are just super insecure.

So for everyone information. Even though we are looking at DF editing compression, YouTube compression, and then your image compression, there's still a huge difference in image quality seen at the belt of the giant.


Richard said ps5 version had low texture quality, to top it off...

 

[DJ12]

Of course they are biased, they've been comparing the series x, which is MS's pro console according to old phil, to the base ps5 since it was released.

 

[Bojji]

the 100% increase is literally with the best gaming CPU available out there (with v cache), what are you trying to prove? Fuck knows what GPU they paired it up with in that screenshot above.

What I was trying to prove is that console fanboys will fucking fight with themselves over some small differences when in reality, few % difference is... irrelevant.

 

[Von Hugh]

You guys acting like 2 or 3 FPS difference is big difference over 30 FPS that you can declare a winner...

That's not the point. The point is that the image quality is not the same. The PC would probably run even worse with actual comparable settings.

 

[Zathalus]

Just watched the video, Richard literally says it is similar performance but up to 10% behind at times, so not sure what your supposed point is here? Game runs at 1080p with FSR on PS5 as well, and it has much more aggressive sharpening.

You just sound salty because they dare point out how PS5 performs in comparison to PC hardware. It’s not their fault that Black Myth is a technical mess on PS5.

 

[Parazels]

John's video are always top class even with his SONY bias and fake SEGA talk , but still his videos are a top class and quality production.

John taught me to appreciate modern and classic 2d games. Somehow I hadn't paid attention on indie games for years, but John's videos made me change my mind.

 

[skneogaf]

Richard even mentioned PS5 has low textures, maybe it's for new glasses.

The whole game has low textures, and playing on 4k with cinematic settings! I tweeted the developers to ask for a higher texture download to be available, I'm sick of seeing rocks that stick out like a sore thumb.

My 4090 24GB of ram is not used enough even with all the settings on full.

 

[CellarDoor81]

I enjoy John's tech-breakdowns. Nice to listen to while playing...

 

[Bojji]

So for everyone information. Even though we are looking at DF editing compression, YouTube compression, and then your image compression, there's still a huge difference in image quality seen at the belt of the giant.


Richard said ps5 version had low texture quality, to top it off...

That's not the point. The point is that the image quality is not the same. The PC would probably run even worse with actual comparable settings.

Most likely difference in sharpening strength or DoF quality. Even PS5 version alone has different sharpness settings:

 

[vkbest]

They were comparing PC games to consoles with DLSS activated with no mention at all, at the same time they were always announcing how PS4 Pro was using Checkerboard instead native resolutions.

 

[Bojji]

They were comparing PC games to consoles with DLSS activated with no mention at all, at the same time they were always announcing how PS4 Pro was using Checkerboard instead native resolutions.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

They didn't study computer science, and are often confused of their own results. Experts aren't usually confused by the outcomes.

Is this pixel counting equivalent of “I never said I was a journalist”? Bunch of school failures got lucky with YY algo.