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[Smeg&TheHeads]

DF are fart huffing idiots who have anointed themselves the be all and end all on whether a game is good.

They amplify the worst aspects of gaming - the tech specs only. They might as well just post videos of themselves jerking off onto PCs, it would amount to the same thing.

 

[akira__]

The image quality isn't the same because of the overly aggressive sharpening in the performance mode. You even have Youtube comments of people who were fooled by the sharpening.

They stated in the video that image quality is the same when it's clearly isn't the same.

Then you try to explain why the image quality is different. But you can only try to explain that the image quality is different by disagreeing with DF who stated its the same. And then to top it off by saying PS5 has worse texture quality is the cherry on top.

You and the highly esteemed youtube comments may try to come up with reasons why it's different that is fine. But with that you have to agreed with the premise that DF wasn't correct by stating it is the same image quality.

As wise man once said.
Well done you played yourself

 

[nightmare-slain]

i stopped watching them years ago. you can easily tell where their bias lies.

 

[akira__]

Just a FYI, I think you mean computer engineering not computer science as they lean more into the hardware side of comparisons not programing as they really don’t have much insight into that more than at a high level. I think they do pretty well with what they have. There is always going to be a speculative side of this as they really only can judge from the results that they are able to emulate and collect data from with the product they are presenting and make assumptions from there. I just look at their presentation as another data point when making my own assumptions. It’s not the final word but another source of information.

If you don't understand computer science then you wouldn't understand what a float is, nor the difference between bandwidth and latency and thus TFLOPS is only a word.

Or as they would say bespoke terminology.

If you would understand TFLOPS then you would understand that is about theorical maximum floating point calculations and not gaming performance.

 

[Gaiff]

They stated in the video that image quality is the same when it's clearly isn't the same.

When? As far as I'm aware, he says the settings are the same, not the image quality. Besides, sharpening does nothing to the performance and the point of the comparison was to match the settings.

Then you try to explain why the image quality is different. But you can only try to explain that the image quality is different by disagreeing with DF who stated its the same. And then to top it off by saying PS5 has worse texture quality is the cherry on top.

I didn't hear where they said it's the same and it hardly matters. What matters is that the settings are the same, which they are. The PS5's textures are blurry for some reason and look like PC's Medium or Low at times. What are you arguing here?

You and the highly esteemed youtube comments may try to come up with reasons why it's different that is fine. But with that you have to agreed with the premise that DF wasn't correct by stating it is the same image quality.

As wise man once said.
Well done you played yourself

So, you aren't actually interested in the premise of your thread, context, or nuance. DF hurt your feelings because you think they deliberately tried to make your favorite plastic box look bad and you had enough and made a Gaf thread to rally people to your cause, but it didn't work as intended because a lot of us know better.

If you don't understand computer science then you wouldn't understand what a float is, nor the difference between bandwidth and latency and thus TFLOPS is only a word.

lmao

 

[SweetTooth]

DF should present the technical details without any bias (they used to be like this before)

They should present the raw data and leave their opinion out of it.

I think there was a YT channel that presented the raw data in excel format without any commentary

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

They’ve been biased in favor of Xbox ever since MS let them do the Series hardware breakdown. Acted like every ps5 advantage must be some glitch or bug on Xbox. It was only this year, 4 years later, that they looked into why ps5 has advantages in a lot of games.

 

[Dr.D00p]

---

---

Lol...Playstation fanboiz.

 

[YCoCg]

They’ve been biased in favor of Xbox ever since MS let them do the Series hardware breakdown.

So biased that in their most recent podcast they spent over an hour salivating over the PS5 Pro and talking about all the areas Sony have an advantage in and what they can push.

 

[diffusionx]

It's 10% less here, 10% more in some other game and identical in others.

6700 and PS5 GPU are not identical, plus you have different Api, drivers, operating systems etc. But 6700 is the closest match you can get.

Even in Wukong you see this:

Is that some major difference to you?

Same with XSX and PS5 comparisons, one game runs 5-10% better on one of the consoles and fanboys are like:

But when you have 100% better performance on PC:

Console fanboys are like...

So yeah, NO - they are not biased. Sony fanboys are just super insecure.

This dude thinks it’s a flex when a PC with a $450 CPU outperforms a $500 console.

 

[twilo99]

as biased as gaf

 

[poodaddy]

Nah, they're pretty great and unbiased outside of Alex, who really is a very intelligent and knowledgeable fella when it comes to PC technology but is such a sad, annoying little cuck. It just seems like you fanboys are real soft when it comes to accepting anything on your favorite piece of hardware isn't absolutely perfect. There have been tons of games where they pointed out that the Series X version was running worse than the PS5 version or had worse texture filtering or lighting, and it seems like no one's bothered by it, but the second a game has a messy PS5 port and they point it out here comes the whiny children brigade. Grow up.

 

[King Dazzar]

I enjoy their content. But in doing so, I know they have said some down right stupid things at times. I'm also aware from a trusted source that they have, at least historically, had some influencing relationship with MS. Which should at least make you be aware of potential bias. That doesnt stop me from gaining info from their analysis though and enjoying their takes at times.

 

[akira__]

I didn't hear where they said it's the same and it hardly matters. What matters is that the settings are the same, which they are.

It's not possible to have the same settings because it's on different hardware with different capabilities. And a complety different api, file streaming is different and one has shared memory and the other it's split. Only the dev and playstation know the actual settings.

They told us the videocard but not the model, nor the motherboard, cpu, ram plus ram config, cpu, etc are all missing.

Thus for comparisons we try to get the same performance and image quality.

It won't be exactly the same but it's conversation/debate starter.

And we can see that is big difference in image quality and performance is worse. Thus it's not like for like. Which is what they stated.

 

[mhirano]

You guys acting like 2 or 3 FPS difference is big difference over 30 FPS that you can declare a winner...

3 fps advantage on a 30fps target is a 10% improvement and can be the diffference between locked-smooth gameplay and stutterfest…

 

[teokrazia]

I don't know, I feel the 360 version has better lighting in a lot of scenes, aesthetically and realism wise.

It comes across as more naturalistic than the PC version in a lot of scenes, which was full of pretty but nonsensical bloom. It's less colourful as a result but more grounded.


This isn't true for all scenes of course and the PC version is still better looking, but it's not like the idea of the 360 version having better lighting is completely incorrect either.

I've played both versions and then compared them side by side on two screens in several different scenes.
Try to do the same thing instead of copypasting the same old screens.

Light on 360 has a lesser precision FP value and it shows all the time.
Let alone bloom and sunshafts quality, and the way these elements merge and interact.

Is the light behaviour and quality that are obviously lesser natural and fakey on 360.
Despite whatever artistic tweak to colors someone can prefere.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This dude thinks it’s a flex when a PC with a $450 CPU outperforms a $500 console.

And then will turn around and say that an enhanced console isn't worth it.

 

[Fabieter]

So biased that in their most recent podcast they spent over an hour salivating over the PS5 Pro and talking about all the areas Sony have an advantage in and what they can push.

Just because you do ps5 stuff as well which bring them clicks btw. Doesn't mean they aint biased.

 

[Gaiff]

It's not possible to have the same settings because it's on different hardware with different capabilities. And a complety different api, file streaming is different and one has shared memory and the other it's split. Only the dev and playstation know the actual settings.

WTF have APIs got to do with the graphics settings? The differences impact how the game is rendered, not the final look (or barely) which is all we care about. Does DF need to go to Microsoft and tell them to get rid of DX and attempt to get GNM/X to run on Windows so they can compare?

They told us the videocard but not the model, nor the motherboard, cpu, ram plus ram config, cpu, etc are all missing.

The model of the video card hardly matters unless it's a big overclocker, which this one evidently isn't. The rest is nonsense.

Thus for comparisons we try to get the same performance and image quality.

It won't be exactly the same but it's conversation/debate starter.

I like how you conveniently moved the goalposts. You said Rich said the image quality is the same when he never said that.

Anyone with working eyes can see it's not nearly the same image quality, and the framerate is 10% behind.

He also says the 6700 can lag behind by up to 10% at times but we also see them being identical. You conveniently forgot to mention that and tried to paint them as biased when they addressed this in the video. If anything, the OP proves that you are biased and this falls in line with some fanboys here who will blatantly ignore context to push a victim narrative. DF has their problems, but your OP ain't it. tl;dr you're full of shit.

 

[fatmarco]

I've played both versions and then compared them side by side on two screens in several different scenes.
Try to do the same thing instead of copypasting the same old screens.

Light on 360 has a lesser precision FP value and it shows all the time.
Let alone bloom and sunshafts quality, and the way these elements merge and interact.

Is the light behaviour and quality that are obviously lesser natural and fakey on 360.
Despite whatever artistic tweak to colors someone can prefere.

I've played both versions multiple times as well hahah.

The reason that screenshot is still a good example is because they're inside a siege tower, and the light passing through on the 360 version is casting realistic shadows through the gaps of the wood. On the PC version there is no light actually passing in and it's illuminated by a fake light source, creating the illusion that they're glowing from the light of a non existant nearby fire.

The point is that the bloom that illuminates some objects in the PC version is often times coming from no lightsource whatsoever, so obviously it comes across faker looking on PC in those specfic cases, and sometimes the 360 version has been corrected for that issue.

And yea, of course the 360 versions shadow quality is lower etc. It's just the game itself had numerous scenes retweaked and relit by CD Projeckt Red to either be more realistic relative to the context of the scene, or tweaked for purely aesthetic reasons, those of which can come down to preference.

But ultimately saying that Digital Foundry are liars for saying that at some points the 360 version has "better lighting" isn't at all a fair statement.

 

[akira__]

You said Rich said the image quality is the same when he never said that.

He did, he said they created pc which is like for like with ps5. That is the point of video.

He then said that ps5 has low texture quality when his like for like pc has worse.

 

[ManaByte]

DF are fart huffing idiots who have anointed themselves the be all and end all on whether a game is good.

They amplify the worst aspects of gaming - the tech specs only. They might as well just post videos of themselves jerking off onto PCs, it would amount to the same thing.

Why won't DF post on GAF?

 

[Fabieter]

Why won't DF post on GAF?

Yea df is crying on X for less than that.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

So biased that in their most recent podcast they spent over an hour salivating over the PS5 Pro and talking about all the areas Sony have an advantage in and what they can push.

4 years later like I said.

 

[Soodanim]

He did, he said they created pc which is like for like with ps5. That is the point of video.

He then said that ps5 has low texture quality when his like for like pc has worse.

DF: Here's our new video, titled "Black Myth: Wukong Controversy - Sony Exclusivity or Xbox Tech Issues?"
Akira_: The point of the video is saying low textures to discredit PS5 and I'm speaking up to defend devs doing overtime because DF might lose them money or something

Come on now, you're running with horse blinders on and are so hyper-fixated on a single phrase-not even the whole sentence-that you're not even paying any attention to the rest of the video you yourself are telling everyone to watch before they reply

 

[akira__]

DF: Here's our new video, titled "Black Myth: Wukong Controversy - Sony Exclusivity or Xbox Tech Issues?"
Akira_: The point of the video is saying low textures to discredit PS5 and I'm speaking up to defend devs doing overtime because DF might lose them money or something

Come on now, you're running with horse blinders on and are so hyper-fixated on a single phrase-not even the whole sentence-that you're not even paying any attention to the rest of the video you yourself are telling everyone to watch before they reply

Yes, that is the point of thread. Correct we are just focusing comparison that somewhat objective, while the rest of the video is subjective and everyone is allowed to have their opinion.

It's fine if they dislike the ps5 and the idea of the ps5 pro.

And they can say series s is brilliant move. While devs say the opposite.

But to ask of others to see what Richard is seeing where the ps5 has worse texture and you call it like for like. That is too far.

 

[Gaiff]

He did, he said they created pc which is like for like with ps5. That is the point of video.

No, he didn't say they were like-for-like, stop lying. He said they were very close because they used the 4800S desktop kit which has the same CPU as the Series X. I'm still waiting for the part where he said image quality is the same.

He then said that ps5 has low texture quality when his like for like pc has worse.

He said the textures on PS5 are medium or low "for some reason". Did you even listen to this video? The PC textures aren't worse, the PS5 is oversharpened. Look at this.

Oh, hey, clearly, Performance Mode has better textures and IQ than Quality or Balance, right? Wrong. They use the same textures except the sharpening is much more aggressive. Your ignorance might lead you to think the textures are worse in the other two modes, but they aren't. That's why you got tricked into thinking the IQ on PS5 is better than the 6700 when they both use 1080p native. You're here talking about computer science when you can't even grasp the basic premise of a video.

 

[Holographicman]

Biased YES, but all is good if you keep an open mind check multiple sources. I usually prefer the retrospective stuff.

 

[akira__]

He said the textures on PS5 are medium or low "for some reason". Did you even listen to this video? The PC textures aren't worse, the PS5 is oversharpened

You are making mods proud by adhering to your tag so closely.

 

[Smeg&TheHeads]

Why won't DF post on GAF?

The only reason I would want anyone from DF to come here is so I could tell them to piss off again.

 

[Bojji]

And I was going to say that unlike a PC, a PS5 is not trying to be a 120fp monster. Its trying to hit 60fps at best. And the PS5pro will bring it closer to that.

And I don't believe we are somehow dredging this up again, but I have sid before, that there are games that will still fall short of hitting that 60fps mark even on the Pro, but such games will be few and far in between. The majority of them will hit 60fps. And Sony would design their hardware to cater to a majority, not to cater to the odd one or two that are the exception.

Buy you clearly need "120fps monster cpu" to hit even 60FPS in some sections in this game. Pro GPU upgrade won't help with that, they still want to use rusty 5 years old parts here...

The image quality isn't the same because of the overly aggressive sharpening in the performance mode. You even have Youtube comments of people who were fooled by the sharpening like you.

When it's factual that the Quality Mode runs at a much higher resolution. 1440p vs 1080p.

As for the textures...

Gotham Knight is just poor CPU utilization. It's heavily single-threaded and also runs like shit on a top-tier PC CPU. It's not a CPU problem but a software issue. Jedi Survivor has been patched, so this doesn't matter. Starfield as far as I'm aware isn't GPU-bound in the 60fps mode? A Plague Tale I think you're right.

That's a tiny list of games when the consoles have been out for almost 4 years.

Jedi started to be 60fps when they removed CPU heavy RT, Starfield is well below 60fps in major citities. Plague Tale also is gutted in performance mode to not be cpu limited.

When it comes to cpu limits like Gotham Knights, you say it's software but it's both software and hardware. In theory every one of those games could probably be written to not be cpu limited even looking the same by competent coders but we know devs don's have that much time (and probably skill) to do this. Better CPU also fixes this problem.

This dude thinks it’s a flex when a PC with a $450 CPU outperforms a $500 console.

Again...

 

[Gaiff]

You are making mods proud by adhering to your tag so closely.

You’re literally lying about what they said. Quote them saying the image quality is the same. Quote them saying the PC and PS5 are like-for-like. Stop fucking lying.

 

[Topher]

You are making mods proud by adhering to your tag so closely.

Well.....is he wrong?

You are on GAF.

Of course people will agree with you.

Rule of thumb, if ResetEra likes it, GAF will usually be against it.

And yet there are people here disagreeing. There is no "GAF" entity that is collectively for or against anything. That's such a truly bad take and I'm amazed that people still repeat it.

 

[akira__]

Well.....is he wrong?

Yes he is. Because if you watch the video Richard is making the point that he has like for like pc. But yet our eyes see it's clearly not the same.

Some try to explain the difference that is fine, but you can only explain a difference when there is one.
so essentially he took 2 positions at the same time. Richard didnt say that and let me explain the difference.

As such that is proper gaslighting.

 

[Three]

Oh, hey, clearly, Performance Mode has better textures and IQ than Quality or Balance, right? Wrong. They use the same textures except the sharpening is much more aggressive. Your ignorance might lead you to think the textures are worse in the other two modes, but they aren't. That's why you got tricked into thinking the IQ on PS5 is better than the 6700 when they both use 1080p native. You're here talking about computer science when you can't even grasp the basic premise of a video.

This doesn't look like just sharpening. Performance mode may actually be a little less demanding than quality or balanced and can possibly afford higher quality textures/settings even. This wouldn't be strange because you must know that the performance mode has framegen on. So in hitting 60fps it's actually running at around 30fps internally whereas balance is hitting 45fps without framegen for 16% less latency.

 

[poppabk]

Astro Bot on PS5 - Virtually Flawless [but we aren't experts, possibly has multiple flaws]

 

[PaintTinJr]

Yes they are paid out by Nvidia. Literally....
They get sponsored by other brands but Nvidia seems to keep the lights on at DF

Digital Foundry

Digital Foundry specialises in game technology and hardware reviews, using bespoke capture and analysis tools to provide a unique look at the way games play. Video is just one dimension of what we offer - check out http://eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry for our articles and visit...

www.youtube.com

This is the one that's probably the most damaging aspect of DF as without competition in the GPU space there's major issues ahead for everyone that isn't Microsoft and Nvidia IMO.

What I found interesting since DF left Eurogamer and joined with IGN is that two friends of mine have been parroting the IGN/DF views on Microsoft sponsored SW Outlaws and yet previously deep into the 360/PS3 years Eurogamer always took DF's opinion lead into review - on any game they did major tech pieces on - and yet Outlaws has been given a very well written critical review on Eurogamer this time, with an effective avoid badge, and yet my two friends are still trying to convince me of the IGN/DF narrative which feels like I can actually see the bias first hand by proxy.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

So biased that in their most recent podcast they spent over an hour salivating over the PS5 Pro and talking about all the areas Sony have an advantage in and what they can push.

I am old enough to remember when PS5 Pro news first broke DF laughed at the notion of a pro console coming and then started getting aggravated once the rumors picked up more steam

 

[YCoCg]

I am old enough to remember when PS5 Pro news first broke DF laughed at the notion of a pro console coming and then started getting aggravated once the rumors picked up more steam

There's been a lot more Unreal 5 games being sub-720p since then, the whole "who is this for" question has been answered.

 

[Gaiff]

This doesn't look like just sharpening. Performance mode may actually be a little less demanding than quality or balanced and can possibly afford higher quality textures/settings even. This wouldn't be strange because you must know that the performance mode has framegen on. So in hitting 60fps it's actually running at around 30fps internally whereas balance is hitting 45fps without framegen for 16% less latency.

Doesn’t add up. Frame generation consumes more VRAM than non-frame generation. They have even less budget for textures in Performance Mode than in Balance. Besides, the PS5 has more than enough VRAM for such low quality textures. This game is light in VRAM.

 

[kevboard]

I honestly think you need to have some sort of mental disorder to even remotely see anything DF does as biased.
we should call that disorder Digital Foundry Derangement Syndrom

I already see blatant lies about them in this thread, blatant misrepresentations of their statements, and blatant misrepresentations of things they did.
it's very clear to me that something has to be wrong with these people

 

[Topher]

Yes he is. Because if you watch the video Richard is making the point that he has like for like pc. But yet our eyes see it's clearly not the same.

Some try to explain the difference that is fine, but you can only explain a difference when there is one.
so essentially he took 2 positions at the same time. Richard didnt say that and let me explain the difference.

As such that is proper gaslighting.

Better response than pointing out his tag, which doesn't even apply to the conversation. Carry on.

 

[akira__]

Better response than pointing out his tag, which doesn't even apply to the conversation. Carry on.

It does, because there was no need to throw out personal insults.

You alluded to him being correct yet when I provided the receipts you ignore that.

He is making multiple stances at the same time which can't be true all at once.

So it did apply to conversation at hand.

 

[kevboard]

It does, because there was no need to throw out personal insults.

You alluded to him being correct yet when I provided the receipts you ignore that.

He is making multiple stances at the same time which can't be true all at once.

So it did apply to conversation at hand.

texture setting differences are entirely irrelevant in the comparison they did.

the fact that you think it's not irrelevant instantly disqualifies you to speak on the matter

 

[Black_Stride]

No, he didn't say they were like-for-like, stop lying. He said they were very close because they used the 4800S desktop kit which has the same CPU as the Series X. I'm still waiting for the part where he said image quality is the same.

He said the textures on PS5 are medium or low "for some reason". Did you even listen to this video? The PC textures aren't worse, the PS5 is oversharpened. Look at this.

Oh, hey, clearly, Performance Mode has better textures and IQ than Quality or Balance, right? Wrong. They use the same textures except the sharpening is much more aggressive. Your ignorance might lead you to think the textures are worse in the other two modes, but they aren't. That's why you got tricked into thinking the IQ on PS5 is better than the 6700 when they both use 1080p native. You're here talking about computer science when you can't even grasp the basic premise of a video.

Why you have to do him like that?

 

[Zathalus]

Yes he is. Because if you watch the video Richard is making the point that he has like for like pc. But yet our eyes see it's clearly not the same.

Some try to explain the difference that is fine, but you can only explain a difference when there is one.
so essentially he took 2 positions at the same time. Richard didnt say that and let me explain the difference.

As such that is proper gaslighting.

That is factually correct, the PS5 has worse textures then the High setting on PC. This only applies to some objects though, and probably not anything you’d notice in the opening intro. Everything else is maybe due to sharpening differences. Immortal of Aveuem had the same issue, PS5 looked like it was running higher quality textures compared to the PC or XSX versions but the developer themselves confirmed it was the same setting on all of them. Turns out the PS5 version had aggressive sharpening applied via FSR while the XSX version did not, DLSS also did not have sharpening enabled for the PC version either.

 

[MarkMe2525]

The musings of a scorned fanboy. I'm not a huge fan of their work, but I don't find the accusations credible. Back in the XB1 and PS4 days, this accusation was all over the place. We had people calling them Sony fanboys for pointing out the obvious, and people calling them Xbox fanboys due to them not proclaiming that the XB1 was a pile of shit.

I think the more likely reality is that they occasionally just have a differing opinion than you and you let confirmation bias draw your focus to these instances so that they are overrepresented in your mind.

 

[Team Andromeda]

John taught me to appreciate modern and classic 2d games. Somehow I hadn't paid attention on indie games for years, but John's videos made me change my mind.

I don't always agree with some of his opinions and don't think he's quite the SEGA he makes out, but can't question his expertise with his videos . They are so well scripted and presented, John is the best in his class and field .


I do also like Olivers videos too

 

[Topher]

It does, because there was no need to throw out personal insults.

You alluded to him being correct yet when I provided the receipts you ignore that.

He is making multiple stances at the same time which can't be true all at once.

So it did apply to conversation at hand.

His tag references Sweet Baby Inc. That does not apply here at all, but if that was just tit for tat because you were offended then you do you. And no, asking if he was wrong is not alluding to him being correct.