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[ElectricBlanketFire]

So what are we debating here? If this woman says she was raped, then she believes she was raped and there needs to be an investigation.

Personal sexual preferences between consenting adults has nothing to do with a rape accusation.

 

[hodayathink]

And all of this reminds me of something she said a while ago comparing James to John Lennon (I'll link it if I can find it). It made a little sense then, but it makes a lot of sense now.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Affirmative consent isn't sexy and isn't needed? The hell?

If you think asking someone if they want to keep going or have something done to them has a chance of them telling you no or them stopping so you avoid doing so, you're not having consensual sex with them.

I use affirmative consent all the time. Every single one of my partners has liked it. You're not dryly going "DO YOU WISH TO HAVE SEXUAL COPULATIONS WITH ME IN THIS INSTANCE?", all it takes is whispering into their ear "you want some more?" or "you ready for some dick?" or letting them bring your hand to their neck first, an unspoken form of affirmative consent.

If you don't think affirmative consent is "needed" then you are not qualified to speak on consent. At no single moment in time does anyone ever have a default right to someone's body.

Going by the other post you know that safewords exist then. Why are you misreading the other poster on purpose then?

 

[Takuan]

Yes, it's a ridiculous statement. So is saying you've seen him fuck because you've watched his scenes.

Unless you were in the room while James Dean was fucking in his private time, you haven't seen him fuck.

Wow, a lot of people don't know how much of porn is a performance.

Considering that it's pornography you are watching, it's an ignorant statement.

It doesn't seem all that ignorant, based on the women stepping forward. Smoke where there's fire, etc.

How do you guy feel about Max Hardcore? Was that a performance?

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

What a piece of shit if true. Hopefully if it is they put his ass in jail for it.

 

[Cloyster]

Affirmative consent isn't sexy and isn't needed? The hell?

If you think asking someone if they want to keep going or have something done to them has a chance of them telling you no or them stopping so you avoid doing so, you're not having consensual sex with them.

I use affirmative consent all the time. Every single one of my partners has liked it. You're not dryly going "DO YOU WISH TO HAVE SEXUAL COPULATIONS WITH ME IN THIS INSTANCE?", all it takes is whispering into their ear "you want some more?" or "you ready for some dick?" or letting them bring your hand to their neck first, an unspoken form of affirmative consent.

If you don't think affirmative consent is "needed" then you are not qualified to speak on consent. At no single moment in time does anyone ever have a default right to someone's body.

I like how you oh so conveniently took out the words "in the moment" and "always" from my sentence.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Lock his ass up. Sad.

 

[hodayathink]

It doesn't seem all that ignorant, based on the women stepping forward. Smoke where there's fire, etc.

How do you guy feel about Max Hardcore? Was that a performance?

Max Hardcore was arguably a deplorable human being who wasn't acting in scenes so much as being given a license to give in to his most depraved ideas, but that being said he shouldn't have gone to jail for what he did.

Preying on girls who think they can't say no either because they're desperate for money or because they think it'll affect future jobs is one thing (and it's a pretty bad thing). But it's still not the same as outright refusing to stop when someone says "stop".

 

[Silphonica]

What more do you need? The whole thing is that she used her safe word and the sex continued. Hence she is calling it rape.

Maybe you are right, but I am free to hold my skepticism.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here.

I'm not saying what happened wasn't rape. However, what I am saying is that, making such a claim is very important. I feel until we all know all the info, you should treat it like the jury of a court case and only make a decision until all the facts are presented. At this stage you have a very brief description of what happened. Maybe its not our place to know, but then why make this public rather than go to the authorities.

It started off as consensual, so my question is the boundaries, of what caused the safe word to be spoken (what boundaries where crossed) and why after it happened this actress is only going to the public with it and not pressing charges.

Like I said, I'm not pro-porting to be right, but until all info is out, I think we and everyone else cannot make judgement.

 

[FyreWulff]

I need more posts telling me I misread a statement that I specifically quoted. Yes, I know the poster said they got consent themselves. A separate statement was made afterwards that affirmative consent is not sexy and not always needed. A safeword is a form of affirmative consent, and always goes along with a discussion about what is wanted and allowed before the fun begins.

It takes a couple all of a few minutes to discuss what they want out of sex, what they desire, and their limits. A safeword allows you do certain things a person has affirmatively consented to prior with more roleplay involved. And even at that point, if you have even the slightest hunch they don't want to continue but they haven't used their safeword, you stop. If you think this an issue then I don't know what else to say at this point.

I like how you oh so conveniently took out the words "in the moment" and "always" from my sentence.

No I didn't. They're right there in the quote. There is no excuse for not making sure you have affirmative consent. It doesn't matter if someone has fucked you before, if you're married to each other, etc. If it's clear that you have their consent, that's affirmative consent.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

maybe its not our place to know, but then why make this public rather than go to the authorities

Because rape victims are often scared of going to the authorities for fear of having to relive a traumatic event and/or not being believed.

For someone who wants to hear all the facts before passing judgement, you sure are quick to cast doubt on her accusation.

 

[Silphonica]

I need more posts telling me I misread a statement that I specifically quoted. Yes, I know the poster said they got consent themselves. A separate statement was made afterwards that affirmative consent is not sexy and not always needed. A safeword is a form of affirmative consent, and always goes along with a discussion about what is wanted and allowed before the fun begins.

It takes a couple all of a few minutes to discuss what they want out of sex, what they desire, and their limits. A safeword allows you do certain things a person has affirmatively consented to prior with more roleplay involved. And even at that point, if you have even the slightest hunch they don't want to continue but they haven't used their safeword, you stop. If you think this an issue then I don't know what else to say at this point.

If you are referring to me, thats not really what I have a problem with.

Because rape victims are often scared of going to the authorities for fear of having to relive a traumatic event and/or not being believed.

For someone who wants to hear all the facts, you sure are quick to cast doubt on her accusation.

Eh right the same applies to going public.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Bret Easton Ellis throwing his two cents in can't be far behind.

 

[Cloyster]

No I didn't. They're right there in the quote.

I'm saying your response completely ignored them. Those words completely invalidated your point, because I never said anything towards the contrary. If you got "sometimes someone has a default right to someone else's body" out of what I said, then I don't really know what else to say.

 

[Trident]

It takes a couple all of a few minutes to discuss what they want out of sex, what they desire, and their limits. A safeword allows you do certain things a person has affirmatively consented to prior with more roleplay involved. And even at that point, if you have even the slightest hunch they don't want to continue but they haven't used their safeword, you stop. If you think this an issue then I don't know what else to say at this point.

This is completely compatible with what he said. Maybe you should get affirmative confirmation that you actually understand the posts you reply to.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

I need more posts telling me I misread a statement that I specifically quoted. Yes, I know the poster said they got consent themselves. A separate statement was made afterwards that affirmative consent is not sexy and not always needed. A safeword is a form of affirmative consent, and always goes along with a discussion about what is wanted and allowed before the fun begins.

It takes a couple all of a few minutes to discuss what they want out of sex, what they desire, and their limits. A safeword allows you do certain things a person has affirmatively consented to prior with more roleplay involved. And even at that point, if you have even the slightest hunch they don't want to continue but they haven't used their safeword, you stop. If you think this an issue then I don't know what else to say at this point.



No I didn't. They're right there in the quote. There is no excuse for not making sure you have affirmative consent. It doesn't matter if someone has fucked you before, if you're married to each other, etc. If it's clear that you have their consent, that's affirmative consent.

That's not at all what you said before mate. Unless I'm misreading something, which you can clear me up on.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Eh right the same applies to going public.

You think tweeting and going to the police with a rape accusation are the same thing to a victim of sexual assault?

 

[Silphonica]

You think tweeting and going to the police with a rape accusation are the same thing to a victim of sexual assault?

Consequential parity is different than two acts being the same thing.

 

[Airola]

He's always choking girls in his video.

Yeah, I bought the Seinfeld Parody DVD and initially thought this guy seems to be a nice fellow. Had quite a good sense of comedy and did his Seinfeld role pretty well.

Then his scene with "Elaine" began. I was already put off by the complete drop from characters and the surprisingly good parody of Seinfeld changing into mediocre modern porn aesthetics, but then he started choking her and I lost my interest totally. I couldn't understand what the appeal of that is and pretty much fast forwarded that and all the rest of the porn scenes.

Overall what comes to these modern porn parodies, they completely lose their magic as soon as the sex starts. To me they mostly are good and fun when there is still that anticipation of these movie/tv-series characters getting on with it, but the actual sex and how it's filmed pretty much always ruins the whole thing. This modern style of putting unnecessary roughness into the scenes ruins it even more.

I watched tons of these movies when doing my bachelor's thesis on the subject. I thought I'd have fun with it, but this modern stuff always let me majorly down. And especially that choking scene with James Deen got stuck in my mind and is one of the biggest examples on why modern pornography can be stupid.

I'm not surprised at all by these accusations, which is sad because he seems like a nice guy outside of sexual stuff. He should be put on trial and he should seek therapy as he clearly seems to have lost his power of self-control what comes to sex, and his sense of what is right has become twisted.

I'm not familiar with Stoya at all but I hope she'll be allright. That's very good of her to be brave to bring this thing to light.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

You think tweeting and going to the police with a rape accusation are the same thing to a victim of sexual assault?

Perhaps he/she is saying "coming out" as the victim of rape is the same type of experience? I think the type of stimga, pressures, and feelings can definitely apply to victims in both cases. But I don't know at all firsthand so I don't know.

 

[Cloyster]

Yeah, I bought the Seinfeld Parody DVD and initially thought this guy seems to be a nice fellow. Had quite a good sense of comedy and did his Seinfeld role pretty well.

Then his scene with "Elaine" began. I was already put off by the complete drop from characters and the surprisingly good parody of Seinfeld changing into mediocre modern porn aesthetics, but then he started choking her and I lost my interest totally. I couldn't understand what the appeal of that is and pretty much fast forwarded that and all the rest of the porn scenes.

Overall what comes to these modern porn parodies, they completely lose their magic as soon as the sex starts. To me they mostly are good and fun when there is still that anticipation of these movie/tv-series characters getting on with it, but the actual sex and how it's filmed pretty much always ruins the whole thing. This modern style of putting unnecessary roughness into the scenes ruins it even more.

I watched tons of these movies when doing my bachelor's thesis on the subject. I thought I'd have fun with it, but this modern stuff always let me majorly down. And especially that choking scene with James Deen got stuck in my mind and is one of the biggest examples on why modern pornography can be stupid.

I'm not surprised at all by these accusations, which is sad because he seems like a nice guy outside of sexual stuff. He should be put on trial and he should seek therapy as he clearly seems to have lost his power of self-control what comes to sex, and his sense of what is right has become twisted.

I'm not familiar with Stoya at all but I hope she'll be allright. That's very good of her to be brave to bring this thing to light.

I do completely agree that James Deen obviously has a problem.

But a lot of people like rough sex and choking, men and women. There is a very scary trend in this thread and quite a few others towards the continued demonization of BDSM. I didn't ever notice it until I got more into the scene and on the internet, but it's really quite upsetting.

 

[Henchmen21]

I've found that the people who say there aren't attractive men in straight porn usually don't watch much straight porn outside of what they randomly find on tube sites.

Well to be fair most people watching str8 porn are str8 men who don't exactly care how good the guy looks. If they did guys like Ron Jeremy would never have made it into the industry.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Wonder what the statute of limitations is on rape wherever this happened. She should just go to the authorities IMO.

This will probably not hurt his career unless there's criminal charges.

 

[Exodust]

That's terrible. Never was a "Fan" of James Deen, or any male pornstar, but since he was the one who had some strange crossover appeal I'd at least would have thought he was an alright guy.

Porn industry stay housing some of the worst fuckers on the planet.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

I'm not all that shocked. The way he and other male porn stars carry themselves in interviews and on social media you can see very aggressive behaviour or thinking like they are above their female counterparts. Probably goes to their head that they are the dominant ones in control 99% of the time in scenes.

Can you link something. I've never gotten that vibe ever.

 

[hodayathink]

Well to be fair most people watching str8 porn are str8 men who don't exactly care how good the guy looks. If they did guys like Ron Jeremy would never have made it into the industry.

Ron Jeremy wasn't unattractive when he came into the industry. He just let himself go a few years after he got in, and at that point he was so well liked and dependable as a male performer that people kept hiring him.

 

[Oersted]

Wonder what the statute of limitations is on rape wherever this happened. She should just go to the authorities IMO.

This will probably not hurt his career unless there's criminal charges.

This might be one of the very rare cases where it might hurt, due to his, atleast to this point, enormous crossover appeal.

 

[Staccat0]

It would be nice if the OP included the fact that they were a couple, just so people wouldn't keep assuming it's from a scene.

What a sad thing if true. She always seemed like a great lady.

I don't really have any thoughts on Deen, however, people shouldn't be quick to saying sex negative stuff about those who enjoy rough/dominating sex. That cuts both ways and is a round-about version of a troubling argument you could make about women who enjoy being dominated or who safely engage in rape fantasies.

James Deen is just as capable of being a rapist as a guy who has vanilla sex can.

 

[Takuan]

Max Hardcore was arguably a deplorable human being who wasn't acting in scenes so much as being given a license to give in to his most depraved ideas, but that being said he shouldn't have gone to jail for what he did.

Preying on girls who think they can't say no either because they're desperate for money or because they think it'll affect future jobs is one thing (and it's a pretty bad thing). But it's still not the same as outright refusing to stop when someone says "stop".

I agree on most of this except for the jail thing; I don't know what they actually booked him for, so I can't really speak to that.

It's just really strange to suggest the two are completely unrelated because porn is just acting. It's not at all uncommon for an actor to lose him/herself in a role, whether it's television or pornography - and pornography is arguably more intimate in nature.

Wonder what the statute of limitations is on rape wherever this happened. She should just go to the authorities IMO.

This will probably not hurt his career unless there's criminal charges.

I'm guessing it's either too late for physical proof to exist, or people won't believe her because she and him engaged in rough sex and it'd be impossible to prove the exact point any physical trauma occurred. It'd be her word over his.

 

[hodayathink]

Wonder what the statute of limitations is on rape wherever this happened. She should just go to the authorities IMO.

This will probably not hurt his career unless there's criminal charges.

She's probably not going to go to the authorities because this arguably the hardest type of rape to prove, because the physical evidence wouldn't mean anything (especially if the sex was rough and consensual to start).

And this will absolutely hurt his career, as there are going to be directors that refuse to work with him after this (either because they want to themselves, or because social media pressure will force them to). He still has his website/production company to retreat back to, and he'll probably still be able to find performers that he knows personally that will work with him (and new girls who don't know about all this), but his days of being the biggest name in porn are pretty much over.

Edit: Especially given that a lot of his work comes from places that like to consider themselves female-friendly or are actually run by women (X-Art/Collete, EroticaX/Mason), and those are the consumers that would react most negatively to this news.

I agree on most of this except for the jail thing; I don't know what they actually booked him for, so I can't really speak to that.

It's just really strange to suggest the two are completely unrelated because porn is just acting. It's not at all uncommon for an actor to lose him/herself in a role, whether it's television or pornography - and pornography is arguably more intimate in nature.

They booked him for obscenity based on a scene that the female performer completely consented to being in, and use the "local standards" guideline to get him. It's why there are certain places in the US that you can't actually get porn shipped to. They tried to do the same thing to John Stagliano over a trailer to one of his movies viewed over the internet, actually.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Lock his ass up. Sad.

Based solely on testimony? You aren't interested in a legal process at all?

 

[Takuan]

And this will absolutely hurt his career, as there are going to be directors that refuse to work with him after this (either because they want to themselves, or because social media pressure will force them to). He still has his website/production company to retreat back to, and he'll probably still be able to find performers that he knows personally that will work with him (and new girls who don't know about all this), but his days of being the biggest name in porn are pretty much over.

I feel like Erik Everhard stopped getting as much work when a lot of pornstars came out saying he was too rough to work with, but that's not even close to being a rape accusation. I feel like Deen can keep working (provided he doesn't wind up in jail) and have some success if he cuts out the rough scenes entirely. And if he can't, he's probably fine money-wise; I've heard and read he's a low-key person and keeps his life simple.

They booked him for obscenity based on a scene that the female performer completely consented to being in, and use the "local standards" guideline to get him. It's why there are certain places in the US that you can't actually get porn shipped to. They tried to do the same thing to John Stagliano over a trailer to one of his movies viewed over the internet, actually.

Wow, someone really had it out for him. I can't say I blame them, but it does seem questionable that he's in jail if in fact the girl had consented all the way through. Thanks for that bit of info.

 

[Oersted]

Based solely on testimony? You aren't interested in a legal process at all?

Going out on a limp, but he is probably not responsible for a legal process.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

She's probably not going to go to the authorities because this arguably the hardest type of rape to prove, because the physical evidence wouldn't mean anything (especially if the sex was rough and consensual to start).

And this will absolutely hurt his career, as there are going to be directors that refuse to work with him after this (either because they want to themselves, or because social media pressure will force them to). He still has his website/production company to retreat back to, and he'll probably still be able to find performers that he knows personally that will work with him (and new girls who don't know about all this), but his days of being the biggest name in porn are pretty much over.

Edit: Especially given that a lot of his work comes from places that like to consider themselves female-friendly or are actually run by women (X-Art/Collete, EroticaX/Mason), and those are the consumers that would react most negatively to this news.



They booked him for obscenity based on a scene that the female performer completely consented to being in, and use the "local standards" guideline to get him. It's why there are certain places in the US that you can't actually get porn shipped to. They tried to do the same thing to John Stagliano over a trailer to one of his movies viewed over the internet, actually.

I hope it does hurt his career. Scumbag ignored the consent established before. I'm glad others are supporting her then.

 

[hodayathink]

I feel like Erik Everhard stopped getting as much work when a lot of pornstars came out saying he was too rough to work with, but that's not even close to being a rape accusation. I feel like Deen can keep working (provided he doesn't wind up in jail) and have some success if he cuts out the rough scenes entirely. And if he can't, he's probably fine money-wise; I've heard and read he's a low-key person and keeps his life simple.


Wow, someone really had it out for him. I can't say I blame them, but it does seem questionable that he's in jail if in fact the girl had consented all the way through. Thanks for that bit of info.

More than likely, he's going to issue some sort of press release on Monday sounding apologetic (because denial is a bad idea unless he can actually prove she's lying), not shoot for anything except his website for the next few months, and hope all of this blows over. Which it might or might not, depending on how much the mainstream media picks up on this.

 

[Maximus.]

If true, what a piece of shit. I hate aggressive male talent. I don't find it appealing when the girl is getting slapped, choked, etc.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

If James Deen did indeed sexually assault her, what she should have done was initiate criminal proceedings against him.

I don't see how going on Twitter and saying someone raped you while offering no evidence and initiating nothing legally is a positive first step. In today's day and age and with the reality of these situations being "guilty until proven innocent", it's just dangerous for both parties.

He now has to suddenly fight against such an accusation without first having his right to legal advice and she opens herself up to a libel lawsuit if she can't prove it happened in court.

And by the way, just from what I know now I'm inclined to believe her, but this is not the best way to handle the situation.

If true, what a piece of shit. I hate aggressive male talent. I don't find it appealing when the girl is getting slapped, choked, etc.

Personally I think practicing such acts in a controlled, consenting environment helps you gain a much higher level of sexual empathy . I doubt this happened on set. They were together at one point and it's likely it happened in private.

 

[ExVicis]

I do completely agree that James Deen obviously has a problem.

But a lot of people like rough sex and choking, men and women. There is a very scary trend in this thread and quite a few others towards the continued demonization of BDSM. I didn't ever notice it until I got more into the scene and on the internet, but it's really quite upsetting.

As someone whose relationship is very much characterized sexually as BDSM I have to agree. I see people very much just labeling all acts like this as disgusting even though it's between two consenting adults who, if they're like us, discussed and talked over it many many times. There is no reason to demonize BDSM except out of being close-minded.

 

[liliththepale]

This sucks if true. Nothing good can come of it.

Going out on a limp, but he is probably not responsible for a legal process.

This is a fucking great Freudian slip here.

 

[hodayathink]

If James Deen did indeed sexually assault her, what she should have done was initiate criminal proceedings against him.

That sounds nice, but the truth of the matter is that nothing would have happened if she did, because it would have been a near impossible case to prosecute.

 

[NomarTyme]

He seems like a cool dude when I heard him on a podcast. Let's see how this plays out.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Based solely on testimony? You aren't interested in a legal process at all?

No, I think a fair trial is for chumps.

Spoiler

Of course I'm interested in the legal process, I'm working on the assumption that he's eventually found guilty of something. If he isn't, then nothing can be done legally.

I thought it was fairly obviously implied in my post.

 

[Oersted]

If James Deen did indeed sexually assault her, what she should have done was initiate criminal proceedings against him.

I don't see how going on Twitter and saying someone raped you while offering no evidence and initiating nothing legally is a positive first step. In today's day and age and with the reality of these situations being "guilty until proven innocent", it's just dangerous for both parties.

He now has to suddenly fight against such an accusation without first having his right to legal advice and she opens herself up to a libel lawsuit if she can't prove it happened in court.

And by the way, just from what I know now I'm inclined to believe her, but this is not the best way to handle the situation.

Innocent until proven innocent is a legal term which belongs to the courtroom. To give a prominent example:

Strauss Kahn, former head of IMF amongst other things, was accused of adultery, background being he participated in massive sex orgies with hookers, sponsored by states and companies to bribe him. He claims that he was not knowing they were hookers.

We all know he is lying. We know he is guilty as they come. But it wasn't possible to prove he did know they have been hookers.

As a important side, opening up/talking about it is the hardest thing.

 

[Future]

James Deen pretty much does simulate what stoya described in a lot of his vids. Doesn't surprise me that he wouldn't listen to a girls refusal

 

[ryutaro's mama]

No, I think a fair trial is for chumps.

Spoiler

Of course I'm interested in the legal process, I'm working on the assumption that he's eventually found guilty of something. If he isn't, then nothing can be done legally.

I thought it was fairly obviously implied in my post.

It just seemed like you had already convicted him in court of public opinion.

 

[Dicer]

Not Shocked, that said I never liked him in porn, never watched anything with him in it...

Feel bad for Stoya, she seems genuinely nice outside the work.

 

[Future]

It just seemed like you had already convicted him in court of public opinion.

As is what usually happens in cases like these. Sadly what stoya said probably can never be proven. if he didn't do it, he's slandered for no reason. If he did do it, nothing will happen to him since no one will prove it. This shit is always fucked up

 

[Count Dookkake]

I stand with Stoya.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

Innocent until proven innocent is a legal term which belongs to the courtroom. To give a prominent example:

Strauss Kahn, former head of IMF amongst other things, was accused of adultery, background being he participated in massive sex orgies with hookers, sponsored by states and companies to bribe him. He claims that he was not knowing they were hookers.

We all know he is lying. We know he is guilty as they come. But it wasn't possible to prove he did know they have been hookers.

This is not even close to being a comparable situation, I don't know why you chose it as an example.

That sounds nice, but the truth of the matter is that nothing would have happened if she did, because it would have been a near impossible case to prosecute.

As a important side, opening up/talking about it is the hardest thing.

You think I'm not aware of these facts?

It does not change the situation - she used a globally open medium to accuse a man of the worst crime next to murder while offering no evidence at all. She could have written a statement. She could have chosen to tell her story and give us a reason to support her other than pure faith. She could have done this through a lawyer.

Instead, she just did a drive-by on the internet and potentially ruined someone's life and career. Regardless of whether they are guilty or not, there are laws in place to protect both parties from situations like this for a reason.

 

[Oersted]

This is not even close to being a comparable situation, I don't know why you chose it as an example.





You think I'm not aware of these facts?

It does not change the situation - she used a globally open medium to accuse a man of the worst crime next to murder while offering no evidence at all. She could have written a statement. She could have chosen to tell her story and give us a reason to support her other than pure faith. She could have done this through a lawyer.

Instead, she just did a drive-by on the internet and potentially ruined someone's life and career. Regardless of whether they are guilty or not, there are laws in place to protect both parties from situations like this for a reason.

I did compare it, so yeah, it very much is.

Opening up about rape is not a driveby.