sixteen-bit
Member
I read that he and Marlon Brando fucked, that true?
Sexual assault and the porn world: Stoya accuses James Deen of rape
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I read that he and Marlon Brando fucked, that true?
Should I be ashamed that I knew exactly who both these people were before even clicking on the thread. Anyway, I am pretty sure they were in a relationship right?
Glad she has the courage to speak out as James Deen has a pretty huge fanbase. Will be interested to see the outcome of this.
Glad she has the courage to speak out as James Deen has a pretty huge fanbase. Will be interested to see the outcome of this.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
In regards to believing accusers and false allegations, the reason why people are more inclined to believe than not to is that statistically false allegations make up a very small faction of rape cases that make it to court, in the realm of 10% or under depending on the study/location.
Some stats courtesy of Wikipedia, along with some notes on the complications with the data and police reporting.
And it must be noted that these are only cases with official court proceedings, which are only a fraction of rapes as most go unreported. If anyone has ever worked for a rape support group or knows someone who does, you will be aware of the disturbing amount of stories that go unheard as rape is so hard to prove, is still stigmatised and - as most happen amongst friends/family - often burdened with deeply personal complications.
So, yes, innocent until proven guilty still applies.
But the prevalence of false allegations is dangerously and deliberately overblown, often used as a "devil's advocate" excuse for "objectivity" in sexual assault cases that, in reality, are another mechanism to place doubt on women speaking up.
The dark corners of the internet are eager to give false allegation stories the spotlight to construct a conspiracy of women using rape as a means to take down innocent men. It's poisoning the discussion.
Some stats courtesy of Wikipedia, along with some notes on the complications with the data and police reporting.
And it must be noted that these are only cases with official court proceedings, which are only a fraction of rapes as most go unreported. If anyone has ever worked for a rape support group or knows someone who does, you will be aware of the disturbing amount of stories that go unheard as rape is so hard to prove, is still stigmatised and - as most happen amongst friends/family - often burdened with deeply personal complications.
So, yes, innocent until proven guilty still applies.
But the prevalence of false allegations is dangerously and deliberately overblown, often used as a "devil's advocate" excuse for "objectivity" in sexual assault cases that, in reality, are another mechanism to place doubt on women speaking up.
The dark corners of the internet are eager to give false allegation stories the spotlight to construct a conspiracy of women using rape as a means to take down innocent men. It's poisoning the discussion.
Inferno313
Banned
That's the vibe I've gotten too from various interviews/documentaries/etc. In the big name corporate porn companies, the girls are treated very well and wield a considerable amount of power.
The abusive side of the industry often comes from the smaller companies doing "amatuer" and "teen" porn with no-name girls. These are the type of companies that documentaries like "Hot Girls Wanted" tend to focus on. Not really the "Brazzers" and "Naughty Americas" of the world.
VanquishUK
Member
The guy was always a creep to me anyway I'm not that surprised.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
That's exactly what it is. If one of your ex's accused you of rape via Twitter would you be OK with everyone just assuming you're guilty because she said so?
True Savior
Member
It's natural sexual empowerment. Typical domination/submission stimulus. It's pretty normal. It has nothing to do with non-consented sex.
Yes its ridiculous because you are trying to correlate non-consented sex with all dominative sexual behavior.
Captain_Spanky
Member
Let's not start the thread on that note. BDSM is not abuse, the fantasies are common and have no bearing on whether someone chooses to ignore consent.
ElfArmy177
Member
Google searching says these two are dating? Fuck that guy if he really raped her, but just a quick Google search shows these two banging like crazy in very aggressive ways...
Tread lightly
Go on...
Insane Metal
Member
Noooooo... Stoya 
Alpha Centauri
Member
Let's try and catch you before you fall.
Aggressive banging, bdsm, rape play is not Rape. Rape occurs when you have no consent. Just because they have had sex before, no matter how aggressive or rapey, doesn't mean she can't get legitimately raped in the future.
Think of it like MMA. If Holly Holm beats Ronda Rousey's ass in the ring in a competition, that doesn't give her the right to beat her ass out of the ring.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I take it there is almost a zero chance of a prosecution?
spindashing
Banned
Curiously, I checked his Twitter.
Ah, he's one of those guys.
Ah, he's one of those guys.
Curiously, I checked his Twitter.
Ah, he's one of those guys.
Rape is horrible, he is a disgusting human being, but this...makes him even worse.
Edit:
Jail this bastard
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
dude like the solution to all this like, fuckedness, is to, like, breed better people.
typical stoned californian porn star with no grasp on reality...probably with a euphoric sense of being able to get away with almost anything due to being at the top of the porn food chain.
typical stoned californian porn star with no grasp on reality...probably with a euphoric sense of being able to get away with almost anything due to being at the top of the porn food chain.
Yeah, I wish. Deen being a shithead isn't breaking news to anyone in the porn industry but he'll continue getting work because he has a large fanbase.
Silphonica
Banned
Making a judgement based on very limited information is very dangerous and close-minded.
We make judgements everyday based on the limited information available to us. If not, these forums might as well not even exist because with that logic there would be very little to discuss because very rarely is it possible to know everything about any event. Forming an opinion does not mean having one's mind closed. I can take the side of the alleged rape victim while still maintaining it's possible the accuser is innocent.
As Matt pointed out, I am not in a court of law nor am I taking any action in regards to this other than forming my own opinion and discussing it.
SodiumBenzoate
Member
Uh, why is James Deen featured as the first post on the front page of Stoya's porn company website?
E: and the description of the video is quite rapey too, this is..... Weird.
E: and the description of the video is quite rapey too, this is..... Weird.
Rough sex porn is quite popular. But it is consensual. There are safe words used to stop the sex. When a person says no, it means no. It doesn't matter what has happened leading up to that point, it stops.
In the scenario, rough sex was occurring, and perhaps got a little too rough, the woman decided she had had enough, used the safe word and told the man to stop. The man ignored it and continued the sex. In this scenario rape has occurred. Assuming the scenario occurred.
I mean, he was tweeting rape joke three years ago, so this doesn't really surprise me. If you look at some of Cosby's stuff, he made creepy sex jokes too. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation, yes, but it's a hell of a coincidence.
SodiumBenzoate
Member
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said, but don't you think the decision to go public with this, while simultaneously making/continuing to make money off of his likeness and work is a little strange?
Especially one about Deen 'leveraging his status to breach Dana's physical boundaries'...
Silphonica
Banned
You seem to have your wires crossed, discussion and opinions are not the same as stating conclusions. Theres a big difference and we are talking about different things here.
Also the sentence I bolded, I don't understand what your point is, both parts of the sentence state the same thing but the language suggested is that the former and latter points are contradictory.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
I suppose it matters how much control she has on the company and if she talked to the web site master before laying out what happened on twitter (I'm guessing no)
My guess is it will be gone on Monday.
I'm sorry I just can't stand the internet mob mentality in cases such as this. I feel a lot for the victim's in such cases but I have to play devils advocate in such things. If you have a legitimate claim then take it to the police. You can't just accuse someone on a public platform with no proof or chance for the other person to refute such claims. It's not fair on anyone.
Brianimaniac
Banned
We can still find that stuff disturbing, consensual or not.
UFC fights are consensual, and I still find them to be barbaric and troubling.
Demoskinos
Member
Yeah. A lot of the women who get exploited are ladies looking to break into the industry and fall into the trap of a lot of these really skeezy fly by night operations that lure women who don't know any better.
The power women wield in porn should be evident by people like Asa Akira and Terra Patrick who have made huge empires for themselves. And now both are on the production side making movies under thier brand with other talent.
Sorry I as referring to your comment about how the description sound rapey.
What exactly is a conclusion to you then? Is it some kind of declaration that the rape did occur and nothing said will convince said person otherwise. I'll agree that the people that are demanding this guy goes to jail and what have you are drawing conclusions but people like myself that are taking the side of the alleged victim are not. Because it's possible to feel more strongly about one side than the other. I can assume in my mind that the rape did occur and go from that point in discussion while still allowing the possibility that it did not occur even if I believe it likely did.
You implying because I feel strongly one way or the other is close minded is what I have a problem with. Are you implying that you are 100 percent neutral on the topic and are not leaning one way or the other?
Of course.
Silphonica
Banned
You literally answered the question for me.
Edit: And yes, I am 100% neutral on the subject. Because until we have facts, it's all conjecture. Similar accusations have ruined people's lives in the past and believing what she has said when she has not gone to police or provided evidence is dangerous. I'm not saying shes lying. I'm just saying innocent until proven guilty, not the other way round. You can lean one way if you want, but it's well within my right to consider it close minded. If you have a problem with that, it doesn't really bother me.
I think that's where we disagree. I don't think there is anything wrong with automatically taking the side of an alleged victim, at least in open discussion. As I stated, I am not in a court nor am I taking any kind of action like petitioning that this man be jailed nor am I spreading information about him outside of the discussion in this thread. If I was 100 percent neutral I'm not even sure what the point of me being in this thread would be other than to tell people that if they form an opinion without having been there to see whether it happened or not, they are close minded.
If that tweet all we have to go on? Was it on-set or off?
If this blows up it will raise a ton of interesting moral questions regarding porn and rape (and how common it is in porn), the nature of consent when under financial incentive and having to 'perform' to produce a saleable product, and also the moral difference between 'not-stopping' rape vs 'beginning without consent rape' which (and I know this is a highly controversial opinion) I see as having different levels of moral repulsiveness, though both are clearly and obviously wrong.
It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.
If her company is still making money off Deen videos and then she accuses him of rape in a public forum then that's pretty bizarre behaviour, imo, but it's early days and she may not have actual control over the company, but may be licensing her name / likeness to them etc.
Good post. There are sado-masochism clubs where people genuinely hurt and damage each other. It's all consensual, but I don't approve of it and think anything that causes lasting injury should not be capable of being consented to in a sexual context.
Likewise people are perfectly within their rights to find bdsm or 'rape-like' porn videos troubling.
If this blows up it will raise a ton of interesting moral questions regarding porn and rape (and how common it is in porn), the nature of consent when under financial incentive and having to 'perform' to produce a saleable product, and also the moral difference between 'not-stopping' rape vs 'beginning without consent rape' which (and I know this is a highly controversial opinion) I see as having different levels of moral repulsiveness, though both are clearly and obviously wrong.
It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.
If her company is still making money off Deen videos and then she accuses him of rape in a public forum then that's pretty bizarre behaviour, imo, but it's early days and she may not have actual control over the company, but may be licensing her name / likeness to them etc.
Good post. There are sado-masochism clubs where people genuinely hurt and damage each other. It's all consensual, but I don't approve of it and think anything that causes lasting injury should not be capable of being consented to in a sexual context.
Likewise people are perfectly within their rights to find bdsm or 'rape-like' porn videos troubling.
EnlightenedMint
Member
Here is a video of ex porn star Jessie Rogers talking about a veteran male porn star almost killing her one night, very graphic and hard to listen to, be warned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymWVWHOgDFM#t=4m24s
I don't know if she was talking about Deen or not, but it will be interesting to see if the future accusations that seem to be coming line up with this at all.
I don't know if she was talking about Deen or not, but it will be interesting to see if the future accusations that seem to be coming line up with this at all.
Silphonica
Banned
You say that like that opinion has no place in such a discussion. The reason I don't take sides is because when you back one side, pre-facts your opinion becomes biased. Yeah you can discuss it, but from that point onwards your opinion will be biased to the point where you might not even look at the evidence the same way. Yeah we are not in a court of law, and yeah you are not petitioning for him to be hung or whatever, but that does not mean your bias does not play a part to the mob mentality.
As far as I am concerned, my opinion on the matter is just as valid in this discussion as how you feel about the validity of yours.
Absolutely it is. Though I'm not insulting you for having your opinion.
For people playing devil's advocate, is it really that surprising that a shitty industry based on glorified sex would exploit women and abuse them in ways that aren't ok?
I'm isually of the mindset of you know what you're getting into, don't be surprised it's a horrible industry. But rape between two people who dated even if they are porn stars is not cool. I get thinking there's more than one side to this story but it really doesn't take a lot for me to believe that rape happened in this instance. And yes, I understand that the same line of thought could fit into the other side. But she came out in a much different way for me to believe otherwise. Of course I hope no rape happened but I sadly don't believe so.
I'm isually of the mindset of you know what you're getting into, don't be surprised it's a horrible industry. But rape between two people who dated even if they are porn stars is not cool. I get thinking there's more than one side to this story but it really doesn't take a lot for me to believe that rape happened in this instance. And yes, I understand that the same line of thought could fit into the other side. But she came out in a much different way for me to believe otherwise. Of course I hope no rape happened but I sadly don't believe so.
So the guy is quite popular in the business right? And so have been people like Stoya and others he's done movies with or dated. So if the accusations start to mount up is the porn business likely to do anything? You know, not have him so much, black list him. Would they do that to such a well known name? Or would they wait until a possible court case before handling matters. Not sure how they do things but always thought in some ways the well known ones and people that make this stuff were fairly tight knit. But those who know more about the industry than I probably know better and have greater insight.
Curiously, I checked his Twitter.
Ah, he's one of those guys.
Everyone should carry a rake.
Silphonica
Banned
Right, but the thing is. You feeling insulted is a by-product of my opinion in general, I can't change that. You might feel like I am insulting you or other members personally. However, that's not really the case, that just happens to be the consequence of my opinion on taking a bias in this situation, one of the reasons for me having this opinion in the first place.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
They're capitalizing on the drama.
They dont have ethics regarding this sort of thing and unfortunately, this is probably a huge payday.
The ethics of the porn industry are a completely different discussion from what happened here.
I think the conclusion we can draw from our debate is that we are both free to have our own opinions on the topic which I can agree with. So I'll continue to feel sympathy towards the alleged victim even if such a thing is close-minded and dangerous.
Way I see it, either James Deen is guilty of rape, or Stoya is guilty of making a false rape accusation and publicly making libelous statements about James Deen at no real benefit to herself and colluding with others to make further false accusations. Occam's razor.
I'm supporting Stoya. Devil's advocate all you like, but there's a lot of data about false rape accusations you should read.
I'm supporting Stoya. Devil's advocate all you like, but there's a lot of data about false rape accusations you should read.
Not surprising in the least. Pricks love to discredit rape victims.
Wish I could say I'm shocked.
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