Subpar Spatula
Banned
Did I say I would tell them I don't believe them? Quote me on that shit or move on. If you think being there for someone is casting blame on someone then you have no idea what I'm talking about or never been there.
Sexual assault and the porn world: Stoya accuses James Deen of rape
- Thread starter hodayathink
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Did I say I would tell them I don't believe them? Quote me on that shit or move on. If you think being there for someone is casting blame on someone then you have no idea what I'm talking about or never been there.
I never said anything about telling them you did not believe them. I asked about you believing them. Which you said you would not.
And there is that "casting blame" thing again. If someone tells you they were raped, they are either lying, or were raped. There is not much room for grey.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Do I say I believe them? Again, quote me on that shit or move on. This is more telling about how experienced you are with trauma.
We are not talking about dealing with trauma victims. We are talking about your internal thought processes.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
You still do not understand how to comfort someone. That's your hangup, you want me to slip by saying, "I don't believe her cause reasons". It isn't going to happen.
You have zero argument on whether or not it's a legit accusation. Come back with something that can be talked about.
Monster Zero
Junior Member
Even if you believe your family, you would of course still go to the police to get evidence, you don't expect to carry out vigilante justice right? Not without proof you wouldn't I would hope
...I don't get why you are talking about comforting anyone. That's not what this discussion is about. I never presented it as such. We are talking about what you think.
And again, I'm not trying to get you to slip up. I really want to understand your thoughts on this subject.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I've already said what I think: these are loose allegations. What else is there to say? What do you want me to say?
Of course not. Who said otherwise?
KurtSloane
Banned
Now, now that's not how kangaroo courts work.
First accusation of rape means a man is guilty, even though we have stories of false convictions and women lying about rape.
An accusation does not mean someone is immediately guilty.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Monster Zero
Junior Member
Then why the rhetoricals about someone believing a family member has been raped, really? What do you want someone to say to that. I don't know what's being argued
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It's why a lot of those who challenged then bailed. They had nothing. Just came in to be moral.
I was curious if Spatula's statement that he would not believe a rape allegation without "proof" applied in all situation, including the rape of someone he otherwise trusted. Apparently it does.
The potential silverlining would be that there is definitive proof in the full tape and probably a bunch of witnesses. But it seems unlikely that it would be the case.
The sad truth.
I hope she has. It's important for credibility of the accusation, producing updated and "real" crime statistics about rape and is helpful if there is ever another victim coming forward.
Always fill a report, even if it doesn't help the person doing in any way it can potentially help other victims.
I don't get what you are trying to say.
If you are into rough sex you have raped someone aka they are a rapist?
or
If you are into rough sex you may potentially rape someone aka they are not a rapist at present?
I find both of them to be messed up views.
I think all we can assume is that they have had rough sex at some point. If two people have established a safe word it should be respected even during vanilla sex.
I think interviews and twitter is as bad to cast light on a porn actors real life character as it is basing it of their scenes. Unlike regular actors they operate as a single "persona" so I would suspect they use these arenas to front their brand, especially if they are interviewed under their stage name. But this is just assumptions as I don't follow any porn actors.
Yes, you get a lot of horror stories from regular people not being believed by the police and even partially blamed for being rape by them. It can therefore be much harder for someone who uses their sexuality to go to that step when they know what regular people can go through. Hopefully there will be improvements with the officers who deal with rape cases.
I don't get what you mean, how is advising the right legal procedure part of rape culture?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
And? You actually applied it as a blanket statement. My personal beliefs are not important if I want to cast blame.
lol, yes they are. Our personal beliefs are the what our judgments are based on.
Funyarinpa
Member
I would try to hold back any immediate judgment, yes. I would probably be unable to keep my bias out of my opinions. Would still be sympathetic, though.
The fact that we do make these sorts of judgments without evidence doesn't mean we SHOULD, especially when it is something as potentially life-ruining as a rape allegation.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Then you don't have the ability to separate. That is your issue and shouldn't be cast on others.
If I was on a jury, I would agree. I should go into the courtroom without bias and render an impartial judgment. But as an individual, if someone I trust tells me something, I am going to believe it. Doesn't mean I can't change my mind later, if appropriate.
No, see, you're wrong. Making judgments based on your beliefs (I believe this person is trustworthy, etc.) is human. What would be bad is not having the ability to re-evaluate those judgments if appropriate.
17 Seconds
Banned
I hope Jezebel feels stupid.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
We've reached the "human" part of the discussion. You can hand wave whatever you want but I'm done. Come back with something more substantial as discussing this stuff is meaningless overall. It's the argument of not wanting to discuss the issue but the morals of others and laying blame based off that IE I'm not up to par therefore your argument is stronger so James Deen is in the wrong.
I don't care for this.
Funyarinpa
Member
That's a valid take on judgments and beliefs I guess, but honestly I don't find personal belief to be enough basis to think of somebody as a rapist or treat them as such, which some people are doing in this thread ("lock him up" etc).
I never said anything about the guilt of James Deen.
And that's fine, but saying that people don't have the right or the ability to make judgments for themselves based on the information they have is what I had a problem with.
You do realize this is the porn industry we're talking about right? You think they care? Do you know how many women are abused, beaten in the industry? How many are taken advantage of? People only see the glamour because that's what they show you. One of the worst industries in the world, especially for young women.
17 Seconds
Banned
Honestly most of the guys who do porn are probably like that. That IS the business.
plasmawave
Banned
He likes to slap and choke women in his videos so this isn't surprising.
Not really a fan.
Not really a fan.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
he's like the bill cosby of porn.
Who the fuck cares if it is "a twitter post". Seriously? How much more characters do you need other than the ones describing a rape by the victim's perspective?
Yeah, she could be lying, yeah. We do not know that. Oh wait, except for the fact that she has nothing to gain by lying about something like this, and EVERYTHING to lose by coming out like this. Which is, ironically, evidenced by one quarter of this very thread.
Someone saying "my friend was murdered" or "I was raped" or "I stole something" on TWITTER does not make this information less accurate or important. What platform should she have used to be heard? TwittLonger? A Tumblr post authorative enough? Or write a book about her life and mention it there? A Public statement, carefully prepared by a pr firm? What?
As it has been said a billion times in this very thread, what they do or appear to like to do on film is usually not indicative of their personal sex lives, and even if it is, what's done on film is usually consented by all parties involved, and is generally scripted to some degree.
Comments like this are basically like saying "Well Jack Nicholson likes to chase and kill people with axes in The Shining, so this isn't surprising" if Jack Nicholson actually murdered someone.
Comfort Jones
Banned
Yeah it's sad how many times this has been stated in this thread alone.
"Well he liked to play those shooting games" every fuckin Fox news analyst after a mass shooting.
Seriously people you're equating consensual sex as something close to rape just because it's weird to you. Following this horribly flawed logic you might as well say Stoya wanted to be rape seeing how she enjoys rough sex as well.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
What glamour, if the porn industry is anything it's not glamour. Not when there's an entire genre based on tricing women to have sex in model shoots, and tricking women in general
SuperBanana
Banned
Calling all men in porn rapists is just ridiculous. And no, raping women isn't the business.
That's a really shitty way of thinking
Funyarinpa
Member
Just because you don't KNOW if she could have a motive doesn't mean that she doesn't. Moreover, "But she had nothing to gain!" isn't conclusive evidence for convicting a person for RAPE, one of the worst possible crimes one can commit.
Aaaaand James Deen/Stoya porn ruined.
Doesn't even matter if he did it or not, I don't want to think about stuff like that while fapping. And now that I've read it I can't forget it and every time I see his/her face I have to think about it.
It's like this glass shattering thing from How I Met Your Mother.
Doesn't even matter if he did it or not, I don't want to think about stuff like that while fapping. And now that I've read it I can't forget it and every time I see his/her face I have to think about it.
It's like this glass shattering thing from How I Met Your Mother.
1) Just because someone "has nothing to gain" does not automatically mean they're telling the truth.
2) Going to social media accomplishes nothing in the way of actual legal justice and may actually harm her case if there is one, by giving the defense a way to question her motives and integrity.
...who is "convicting" anyone?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
From what I've read, Deen's entire appeal is the "relatable, guy next door" type of shit. If people know he's raping people on set I doubt he'll get many more jobs.
Right? I got banned a month for joking about Jared Folge (didn't know beforehand that was a bankable offense and wasn't given a warning).
Funyarinpa
Member
I'm sorry, that was incorrectly worded. I meant being sure that this guy is a rapist.
oneils
Member
What is this about?
Vincent Grayson
Member
Then you're a shitty friend.
I honestly can't believe some of the shit you guys are saying here.
I think this was not on a porn set but in real life. Stoya and James Deen were in a personal relationship apparently. So apparently these allegations could also be why they broke up. Also, quite a few actors over the years have taken it 'too far' in scenes, but very little is done because of the sheer cost and money involved. Some girls agents lie to them about what the scene entails until they're already there, need the money, and can't leave, some stars sometimes take it too far, and girls are hesitant because they don't want to be seen as too difficult. But if you speak to or read any interview from a porn star, a lot of them have 'no lists' about stars, directors or agents who are abusive or violated their trust somehow.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Also, the former editor-in-chief of Gawker's former porn site Fleshbot says there's more accusations coming.
https://twitter.com/LuxAlptraum/status/670705616726433793
Think we have another Bill Cosby situation on our hands here?
Demoskinos
Member
There are companies that do yes. However in many cases especially with the larger more respected companies woman weild significantly more power and make more money. Kevin Perieria did a pretty fantastic interview on his podcast with April O'Neil and I believe at one point if I remember right they actually broach this subject.
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