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Papa_Wisdom
Member
I don’t even like the game but I can appreciate its art style and think it looks amazing, even on ps4. It can still pump out some quality visuals.
I started gaming on the zx spectrum and still get impressed with Dreamcast graphics tho so maybe my option is just not valid
I started gaming on the zx spectrum and still get impressed with Dreamcast graphics tho so maybe my option is just not valid
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Papa_Wisdom
Member
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Papa_Wisdom
Member
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Papa_Wisdom
Member
DelireMan7
Member
ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
What are you talking about? It's a last gen game. Everyone played ps4 version of it on Ps5. It's even playable on a Steam Deck! Wait for the next one if you want a next gen only From game, this is not it.
thief183
Member
Yea but imagine that with a better framerate, IQ, and visual effects, having a better engine doesn't mean that the arr should be scrapped.Same as Atlus, FROM's art direction more than makes up for not having high tech graphics.
Just looks at this.
Its fucking gorgeous! Why the fuck should I care if its not "high tech" or not?
sankt-Antonio
Banned
Then you forgot, the DLC made it possible to fly above the clouds, seamless diving with the mount in water, less fog overall -> bigger draw distance , higher quality textures etc. Some of these aspects, as per Sony, are not possible on base PS4.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Elden Ring wasn’t good looking to you?
What would you gain from cutting out PS4/Xbox One? A couple extra effects that current consoles can’t even handle well?
What would you gain from cutting out PS4/Xbox One? A couple extra effects that current consoles can’t even handle well?
Bojji
Member
You can see it in full 4k 60 on pc. Their art is amazing and in 4k elden ring looks really, really good.
They could have fixed performance mode on consoles, there is no reason for it to run in ~50fps, they have auto settings and dynamic resolution that for some stupid reason don't target 60fps but some lower number.
Faust
Perpetually Tired
Everything in game design is interconnected, not separated like you seem to believe. Higher resolution models would require more time for rigging and animation, which would require alterations to the combat and weapons/apells, which may require changes in fidelity and speed due to possible slow down for chasing graphical trends.
Everything has give and take in game design.
CamHostage
Member
You can imagine a lot of things, but the reality is that they already did engine improvements for the PS5 version and got what they got.
The idea that there is some "next-gen power" left locked up in the system which is magically unleashed when you go exclusive to the current gen is not the case. You would need to rewrite the base engine on new tech approaches, which requires research and program alterations and testing and a lot of work and money and time. Plus, even after that investment, not a lot of those approaches, with the way that games are made these days so far into this gen, form a barrier beyond a certain downscale threshold. RT and Nanite and other tech systems are additively great, but they still often have fallbacks if they need to for lesser hardware.
I'm not saying that you can't do things with PS5 that couldn't be done on PS4, but listing off basic graphical feature improvements and saying the engine should be better is not talking about capitalizing on the next-gen divide, that's just hard work which would benefit any platform the game is on.
Bigger draw distance, higher quality textures, and less fog just means using the extra space and drive timing to use the assets and effects, but the PS4 version had its own limitation levels that they'd simply work within; it's not like one package had to work for both consoles. Flying above the clouds or diving with a mount, the PS5 certainly made things easier and let them explore the capacities better once past-gen was cut, but this DLC was unlikely to have been greenlit completely after sales analysis of the base version; it's likely they were planning this for both (and they had already made major improvements to Horizon tech system even for PS4 between 1 and 2, like the diving and additional time settings, these improvements would much like Frozen Wilds they would have taken that extra production cycle on the DLC to bring out experiments planned for engine as a whole.) Going PS5-only freed them up to push their new systems even further, but it's not like they overhauled the whole engine for the DLC the way they'll be doing for Death Stranding 2 and assumedly Horizon 3 and other games now that this project is done. This is still the Horizon 2 core, with extra development time and some experimental new engine technology.
Pigenator
Member
How would they take advantage of the current gen consoles with their old ass engine and Elden Ring infrastructure?
They'll just offer 4K, better textures etc, loading times and best case scenario some better RT tech.
It has a huge player base on last gen consoles, not capitalizing on that is a bad business choice for them.
They'll just offer 4K, better textures etc, loading times and best case scenario some better RT tech.
It has a huge player base on last gen consoles, not capitalizing on that is a bad business choice for them.
sankt-Antonio
Banned
I really don't think so. Zelda's Character and NPCs have better rigging and animation than anything in Cyberpunk.
Quality of animations can be really high in a shitty locking game too, see the last guardian etc.
JimboJones
Member
I imagine pushing people to newer consoles isn't really at the top of from softwares priorities, that's Sony's job.
If they can get the game running on last gen consoles then they benefit from the larger install base.
If they can get the game running on last gen consoles then they benefit from the larger install base.
Lupin25
Member
Lol people aren’t graphic’s whores, just because they have a differing opinion of wanting higher quality in-game assets/visuals, akin to Demon’s Souls Remake, or better performance in general.
Doesn’t make their art direction or games any less great.
Faust
Perpetually Tired
Did you quote the wrong person? No where did I make mention of “graphic whores”.
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Lupin25
Member
I agree.
After playing Demon’s Souls Remake, I would love a graphical upgrade. There’s no harm in stating that. Still love their games, they’re still the best in the industry. Their combat, art direction, is impeccable.
They probably won’t do so and i wouldn’t care, but yeah announcing that on this board is heresy.
CamHostage
Member
That's not what Faust is saying. He's saying that to change a game's level of detail at the core level changes the game.
You can overlay more textures or effects, you can optimize graphics to run smoother or output at a higher resolution, that's all fine on the surface. But some of the ideas about how this DLC should have basically been a brand new game are off-base of what DLC is. (To be fair, a very few "DLCs" have been this case of rewriting everything, but just in the examples given of CP, Horizon FW, & FF7R, one was a huge change because the overall project was rushed and disastrous, another was a first-party project with the console manufacturer making it easy to go with just the currently-selling console, and the third skipped past-gen only seemingly because the sequel wasn't past gen, but little of the tech changed and the PC content didn't alter the specs.) (Also, all examples were over a year later, which is unusual for DLC. Endtree is also unusually almost two years later, but From is kind of a busy studio as most can see, something seemed to happen to delay this content release.)
The Souls games could eventually get improvements through new tech, maybe, but these games are as good as they are because the teams are intimately familiar with how to work with them and what they can get out of them. There's a reason why Souls was locked at 30FPS due to character movement even in remasters despite when new platforms allowing faster framerates, and why it took a few engineering tricks (some of which was worked out in the pre-Remaster hacks) to increase framerate. Use too many new-fangled substitution solutions for things they're doing by hand and you risk losing some qualities of what Souls fans expect from your games.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I personally HATED the design changes in Demon's Souls Remake, you can say it has better "tech" but I was not really fan of Blupoint's art direction.
This is why I value aesthetics over tech any day.
sankt-Antonio
Banned
And I still disagree. Its a budgetary allocation/management decision.
You can play a decade year old game like Skyrim with a shit ton of gfx mods. Its still the same game just looks a lot better. Like a lot a lot. Same gameplay, same animation same everything just looks better.
Or Diablo II remastered, the base game runs at its 24fps in the background (you can switch between the classic mode and the new overlayed gfx) while rendering the gfx overlay at whatever framerate you choose with moders gfx. The game logic, hit detection etc is 1:1 like the original.
Eldenring DLC could have simply used better effects, more geometry, etc. Nothing else would have had to me changed.
Fake
Member
Thats why I dislike Demons Souls remake.
I rather stick with a remaster from the same company that did the original game.
And I not against graphic fidelity games, but I don't like people there are obsessed with graphics trying to push this ideia into art direction games.
I guess is getting useless this type of conversation because is the same bullshit we have with 'all games digital' freaks. Is not enough games have an option for digital, but they also want physical media to end as well.
I rather stick with a remaster from the same company that did the original game.
And I not against graphic fidelity games, but I don't like people there are obsessed with graphics trying to push this ideia into art direction games.
I guess is getting useless this type of conversation because is the same bullshit we have with 'all games digital' freaks. Is not enough games have an option for digital, but they also want physical media to end as well.
Faust
Perpetually Tired
Graphical overlays don’t make the animations look any less jank. If anything, it accentuates the jank and makes it more out of place.
Sure you could just add more mods to Skyrim to improve animations, but that changes hit timing, combat, and the minute to minute gameplay.
This isn’t just budgetary constraints for pushing graphical fidelity, it ties into everything else in the game itself. I would suggest educating yourself on how games are designed.
“Better effects” changes how the game is designed. Will the new spell effects alter player visibility of the boss and its mechanics? Now that needs to be retooled to keep it fair and balanced. More geometry? That changes level design and could add more points of contact for a player to sequence break or get stuck. Same with enemies.
CamHostage
Member
In the first cited text, you were not disagreeing, you are making side arguments; arguments that I don't necessarily contend against, but when you say, "Zelda's Character and NPCs have better rigging and animation than anything in Cyberpunk," you are saying that Erdtree should replace fundamental aspects of its system to catch up to games you perceive as better. And those changes would change the game systems, which is a potential tipping of a domino for a game developer.
Yes, overlay. You can overlay on top of what's there. And they do, and they did. Elden Ring looks better on PS5 than PS4, it has many layers of enhancement and higher detail in the assets and increased effects and advanced technology for the more powerful/capable hardware. Heck, it has an option to turn on raytracing. (And if you've used that mode, you know that more horsepower and "better effects" can still have huge drawbacks.) Fromsoft is doing the things you're asking for, and they're doing it while still profiting from support of old platforms as well.
If you want to talk about rewriting everything to gain significant gains in performance or visual complexity, that's possible, but typically not on a DLC budget/management schedule of production and testing. Those gains are also not necessarily going to come from crossing out the lower end of supported hardware; they can come from that, if that's how the engine rewrite works out and that's what you could not connect with for your old engine, but again, that's not always how tech evolves anymore. UE5 contains revolutionary advances in virtualized geometry and texturing plus global illumination, yet it's flexible from current-gen and beyond to meager cellphones and handhelds.
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
I got no skin in the game but if it's a really big expansion and From isn't charged with pushing the newer hardware, why would they cut their audience in half or more?
Sure Horizon had current gen only DLC...but that helps push PS5 sales.
I don't think Phantom Liberty would run well at all on last gen consoles plus CD Projekt REd for months had been pushing Path Tracing and RTX reconstruction. They made higher end hardware their very focus.
Also what's FF7 Intermission? I have Intergrade...with the Yuffie missions.
Sure Horizon had current gen only DLC...but that helps push PS5 sales.
I don't think Phantom Liberty would run well at all on last gen consoles plus CD Projekt REd for months had been pushing Path Tracing and RTX reconstruction. They made higher end hardware their very focus.
Also what's FF7 Intermission? I have Intergrade...with the Yuffie missions.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Your several posts indicate otherwise because it is hyperbolic in nature and designed to get a rise out of people.
Usually that comes in the form of a sound argument. Not ''This game could be on PS3''.
sankt-Antonio
Banned
You have to read all my messages on this topic in sequence. You are misinterpreting what I said and how and where I quoted people.
In essence I want the DLC to look a lot better - that's all.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Sadly he's right ..look at the ps5 version of Elden Ring ..still stutters and runs poorly. Modders discovered last year that Fromsoft failed to do some standard optimizations during the development that, had they done it properly would've prevented the stuttering issues. So, after this news broke did they go back and fix it? Put out a patch? Nope!
They suck when it comes to tech
CamHostage
Member
That's fine. To get that, you either need a bigger budget with more time/staff (which you're generally not going to get on a DLC,) or you need a rewritten engine with previously-unavailable technology (which again is a big ask in a DLC, especially if it's additive on the base game.) You don't get it purely from increasing the minimum required specs.
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FoxMcChief
Gold Member
mitch1971
Member
So, what power does here wield against the gaming industry?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
you say this but then you see big developers who had enough big budget to hire high profile celebrity and yet they end up releasing a game that was downright broken.
Heck I even heard the next gen patch for Witcher 3 released was also broken...and most Bethesda game release their game has game breaking bugs.
Elden Ring might not have "perfect" tech but it never was broken.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
I’m playing GOW Ragnorak now and it’s a great looking game but it definitely looks a step behind something like Phantom Liberty, and it is full of the “shimmy through a crack in the rocks” stuff that is obviously used to segment levels so everything can stream from a 5400 rpm hard drive. Even though the game only came out in 2022 it feels like a relic in that area.
I don’t know how Elden Ring could benefit from not being tied to 11 year old hardware but the idea that it cannot at all is ludicrous.
I don’t know how Elden Ring could benefit from not being tied to 11 year old hardware but the idea that it cannot at all is ludicrous.
CamHostage
Member
Eh, the "shimmy through the crack to load" has been vilified ever since a developer talked about one of the main reasons for doing them being loading, but they have other purposes. They establish the zones and allow for subtle changes of lighting and materials and ToD, they control the pace and enemy ranges, they allow for great immersion views once you emerge, etc. In a game that allows for cutscenes, it's often unnecessary since many of the same needs of game design can be handled in a cutaway, but the current GoW pretends to be a seamless experience and so it has to follow its own rules. Other ways of doing this are to add a cave/tunnel/building, board a train/vehicle, come into and out of fog, or add "mountains" or other blocking devices which form borders between areas as you traverse from one locale to another. (In the old days, it would be an elevator or locked door, since you'd be down to single rooms or small spaces to load at a time, but now you can have much bigger zones at a time and can stream omnidirectionally if the game is designed that way.) Even in an open-world game built for SSD speeds using an advanced world partition system, you still need some tricks to designate your zones.
You haven't seen the last of the crack shimmy trick, even in current-gen games. They're a crutch for game designers that they try not to use anymore since there are other ways and/or the tech allows them to do alternate methods (and also gamers have caught on and are tired of it,) but sometimes they just work for what you need.
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