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[Lonewolf_92]

This project fully funded and is over 2x it's initial asking budget. The scale is not the same but in both cases, there is no need to lock out content from day 1 buyers.

I doubt very much this will be "locked out content". More likely it will be a mission we'll plug into the game just like any fan made mission that comes out afterward. Hell, a few months after it's released I doubt any two peoples version of the game will be exactly the same thanks to the fact that it's coming with the editor to make our own missions. Where were all you bleeding hearts when this KS started? $30 tier pledge offers "a SPECIAL ABILITY only available to backers". THAT is locked out content, but we didn't hear a peep out of you then. The mission is more like me making one and giving it only to people who post on NeoGAF and send me a PM for it, meaning it would be content ONLY people on NeoGAF has access to.

"spindoctor" indeed.

Wasn't this in production before the kickstarter? they acquired the license to do something with it.

They acquired the license (from Smith & Tinker, another company Jordan Weisman owns) before launching the KS, but nothing was out of the planning stages before the KS started. In fact they were crunching to finish a unrelated project.

 

[Kayhan]

I can't wait until EA latches on to this idea. "Hey guys, pay us so-and-so amount of money 2 years before we release a game and you will get exclusive DLC content that no one else ever will". I'm sure all the people who are defending this idea will be just as supportive of that EA initiative too right?

Except of course that gamers are not idiots and will just laugh at EA......and then pledge to a Kickstarter game that deserves.

Kickstarter could revolutionize gaming. At least the kind of niche games I care about.

Shadowrun, Wasteland 2, Double Fine adventure game, Jane Jensen game etc.

 

[Zeliard]

Aren't pre-order bonusses - as we know them - ultimately things that reward the *publisher*?

In which case, isn't the parallel actually spot-on?

No, there's no parallel, and I covered that in the other post.

Likening it to publisher-driven pre-orders as some are doing is just weird, though, and feels pretty knee-jerky. Both the intention and the ultimate effect are very different. Pre-order bonuses are meant to aid retail chains and occasionally DD services in standing out in the marketplace, and to drive up initial sales. They aren't a "reward" to anyone as you are still losing out on content regardless of pre-ordering, since it tends to be spread out between various stores to help them differentiate themselves.

This, on the other hand, is a reward to backers in an attempt to incentivize greater funding that will simply ensure the game is bigger and better for everybody in the end. It has nothing to do with any outside influences shoving their noses into it.

Do people not realize these Kickstarter companies have no obligation to even do anything with the extra money, beyond the original scope of the project? Once they hit their original goal of 400k, Harebrained could have just largely pocketed the rest of the money and simply created the game they had originally promised to make. In this case they are attempting to get more money so they can make a better game. How satanic.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I can't wait until EA latches on to this idea. "Hey guys, pay us so-and-so amount of money 2 years before we release a game and you will get exclusive DLC content that no one else ever will". I'm sure all the people who are defending this idea will be just as supportive of that EA initiative too right?

EA would never do Kickstarter because it would not be in their interest to do so. They don't need it. It's not even on their radar.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I think the number on the kickstarter page doesn't include paypal donations, correct?

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I think the number on the kickstarter page doesn't include paypal donations, correct?

The number on the Kickstarter page does not include PayPal donations.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The number on the Kickstarter page does not include PayPal donations.

Is there a page that does, such as with WL2?

 

[mclem]

No, there's no parallel, and I covered that in the other post.

It all seems to boil down to benefitting the funding source in the end, though:

Likening it to publisher-driven pre-orders as some are doing is just weird, though, and feels pretty knee-jerky. Both the intention and the ultimate effect are very different. Pre-order bonuses are meant to aid retail chains and occasionally DD services in standing out in the marketplace, and to drive up initial sales.

Incentivising them to make orders (or more orders) -> ultimately benefiting the publisher.

It all boils down to benefits for the funding party. In the traditional model's case it's intended to result in more revenue for the publisher; in the Kickstarter model's case it's intended to result in more content for the donator.


(I should add that I'm one of those people who doesn't regard any of the various DLC initiatives as a problematic thing; I'm not stating this as something *negative* that Harebrained is doing. I'm completely happy that they're doing it!)

 

[Zeliard]

Incentivising them to make orders (or more orders) -> ultimately benefiting the publisher.

It all boils down to benefits for the funding party. In the traditional model's case it's intended to result in more revenue for the publisher; in the Kickstarter model's case it's intended to result in more content for the donator.

But that's a significant difference, no? One is beneficial to the publisher, the other to the consumer. It's the great thing about Kickstarter - the funding party are the consumers and the people who will ultimately play and enjoy the games.

Traditional (i.e. modern) pre-order bonuses don't benefit anybody outside of the publisher and those who deliver the product. Every consumer is getting the short end of the stick there to some degree, as even those who get the bonus from one offer tend to miss out on another offer.

In this case, even the people who aren't getting the exclusive mission still largely benefit from that incentive. Weisman specifically says in the video that the 500k is being used towards the game as a whole, with the mission simply as incentive to get it to that point.

 

[mclem]

But that's a significant difference, no? One is beneficial to the publisher, the other to the consumer. It's the great thing about Kickstarter - the funding party are the consumers and the people who will ultimately play and enjoy the games.

One is beneficial to the funder, the other is beneficial to the funder. Neither is particularly beneficial to the final *consumer*. The risk here is conflating the funders - the people who *fund* the project - with the consumers - the people who *purchase* the project. Indeed, I'm not quite certain consumers is the right word, because the funders will consume it too. I guess 'purchasers' will do.

The whole hoo-hah about the 'free mission' initiative is the fact that it benefits the funders but not the purchasers. The whole hoo-hah about preorder DLC is the fact that it benefits the funders but not the purchasers.

I'll admit that there is a difference in that right now you have the choice between being a purchaser and a funder, a choice that was never extended to traditional retail models (Well, short of setting yourself up as a publishing company!) - but that choice will go away down the line, at which point - from the perspective of a *purchaser* - it'll be no different from the preorder bonuses system.

In this case, even the people who aren't getting the exclusive mission still largely benefit from that incentive. Weisman specifically says in the video that the 500k is being used towards the game as a whole, with the mission simply as incentive to get it to that point.

And you can extend exactly the same argument to preorder bonusses. The increased revenue that they are intended to promote should in turn allow an increased budget for the game as a whole.

 

[Zeliard]

One is beneficial to the funder, the other is beneficial to the funder. Neither is particularly beneficial to the final *consumer*. The risk here is conflating the funders - the people who *fund* the project - with the consumers - the people who *purchase* the project. Indeed, I'm not quite certain consumers is the right word, because the funders will consume it too. I guess 'purchasers' will do.

You are essentially purchasing, unless you pay lower than the $15 amount. You are purchasing the game and you are purchasing whatever goodies that tier comes with. As charitable as some people are, these Kickstarters wouldn't be as successful as they are without the tiers to support them. People are making value judgments in deciding which tier they want to support. Take away the tiers and that will become quite evident.

The funders in this case are also the consumers (or "purchasers" if you prefer). That's the whole point behind Kickstarter. The consumers = the publishers. You are taking away the actual publishers, the middle men, and creating a direct line from developer to consumer.

The whole hoo-hah about the 'free mission' initiative is the fact that it benefits the funders but not the purchasers. The whole hoo-hah about preorder DLC is the fact that it benefits the funders but not the purchasers.

Again, it benefits everybody. The funders get a mission and that *also* in turn benefits future purchasers, as the mission incentivizes additional funding for the game that everybody gets! Everyone benefits from it.

And you can extend exactly the same argument to preorder bonusses. The increased revenue that they are intended to promote should in turn allow an increased budget for the game as a whole.

In this case it is literally and directly helping to increase the actual budget of the game behind made. There is a direct correlation between increased Kickstarter funding and more substantial games (even though there doesn't even have to be). I'm not sure how that applies to pre-order bonuses. Those are intended to increase initial sales and to throw a bone to retail chains, which may or may not ultimately have any positive bearing on anything from a consumer standpoint, and in the short-term only harms the value.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

The number on the Kickstarter page does not include PayPal donations.

We could easily be looking at 1.3 million or more even though they currently list around 1.1 mil.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Where do you get the extra $2M?

 

[mclem]

In this case it is literally and directly helping to increase the actual budget of the game behind made. There is a direct correlation between increased Kickstarter funding and more substantial games (even though there doesn't even have to be). I'm not sure how that applies to pre-order bonuses. Those are intended to increase initial sales and to throw a bone to retail chains, which may or may not ultimately have any positive bearing on anything from a consumer standpoint, and in the short-term only harms the value.

Boxed-product budgets are based on predicted revenue.

There is a direct correlation between increased predicted revenue and increased budgets (and in turn, more substantial games) (even though there doesn't have to be).


Or at least, there should be. It's fair to also add that many pubs are *really* bad at realistic predictions!

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I would rather that the exclusive free mission to funders become purchasable to everyone at some point.

 

[Slappers Only]

I have to stop reading this thread now. The internet can turn even the most incredible and fortunate experience into a hissy about entitlement.

 

[Alexios]

Hmm I just realised I haven't backed it yet. I'm wondering if that special $30 tier skill is gonna be worth it or it's just gonna be 4th wall type bs, in game characters having skill checks that acknowledge you're a backer in their dialogue etc. And if that doc wagon thing is gonna feel like a cheat, or an actual streamlining of a process you'll do anyway or something. I'm debating if this stuff is worth it or I should just wait for the game to be done and see what I like of it and if there's DLC. But the backer only stuff may be worth having and those may not become available as DLC because by then there will also be game price cuts and backers may feel ripped off that others got all their content and more for less money. Eh. I'm gonna go with $15, I'd like to give $60 but that range should really include at least a basic physical copy in my opinion, Wasteland 2 has it right. Their $125 is too much.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

It looks like the whines of the Internet were heard:

Are you aware that many of us don't want the special SNES/SEGA tie-in mission to be ONLY for Backers?

Definitely! And we appreciate the way the community is supporting one another. We'll definitely address it in our next video update, this week!

I expect them to move to a "free for backers; paid content for everyone else" approach.

Also, some possible candidates for the second city:

We've hit our $1M stretch goal! Huzzah! What cities will we have to choose from? When do we choose?

Good questions!

We'll run a backers-only survey after our Kickstarter time period ends (4/28/2012). (Kickstarter doesn't allow backer-only surveys before then and we want to be sure to keep the decision purely for backers.)

As we scan your posts across the boards and forums, a few cities seem to rise to the top: Berlin, Chicago, Denver, London and Washington DC. We're still listening and there's still plenty of time left for debate.

 

[Keasar]

I want Stockholm.

I am actually pretty interested in knowing how my country fairs in the future of the Shadowrun world. Are we still a neutral nation? Have the rebirth of magic meant the return of the viking lore giants? Does the scandinavian trolls roam the woods? Is Stockholm still a pretty old city now with lots of futuristic architechture built around it? Are we now known for our blonde scandinavian bikini elves?

 

[Victrix]

All over some place european or otherwise non american (or tokyo, too damn obvious)

 

[Xater]

All over some place european or otherwise non american (or tokyo, too damn obvious)

Exactly. Every game ever is already set in the US. We need other locations. I know I'll be voting for Berlin.

 

[Victrix]

Dear game developers: Even americans are tired of america

 

[Dice]

If that's it, Berlin all the way. I'd like Hong Kong but ANYTHING (not that Berlin is bad, plus SR is apparently big in Germany) would be better than a US city.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Now that Wasteland 2's party is officially over, hopefully the fundraising fun moves to Shadowrun.

 

[painey]

I want London or Chicago seeing as Minneapolis isn't an option.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Being able to frag a Troll Senator on his way home from the Elven titty bar in Washington, DC sounds like fun too.

Lincoln's monument would also make an excellent backdrop for a firefight... or National Treasure style conspriacy set in the Shadowrun universe.lol

 

[Mejilan]

Decided upon my first ever KS an hour ago.
This one is now my third.
Woops.

 

[randomkid]

I'm a little confused. Is this new game going be like the SNES one where you can run around and explore the city and chat with people? Or is this going to be a set of missions you select from the map like Front Mission or other strategy RPGs?

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I'm glad that they are going to talk about the exclusive mission issue. Hope it's for the better.

Anyway, London sounds as a good city! Would like to see it in a cyberpunk future.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Locations I'd like to see for the 2nd city:

Beijing/Shanghai/Hong Kong
New Dehli
Egypt

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Decided upon my first ever KS an hour ago.
This one is now my third.
Woops.

It's awful. I blame Tim Schafer for my newfound addiction.

 

[A Human Becoming]

It's awful. I blame Tim Schafer for my newfound addiction.

Same. I'm controlling myself to not buy this watch.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I'm a little confused. Is this new game going be like the SNES one where you can run around and explore the city and chat with people? Or is this going to be a set of missions you select from the map like Front Mission or other strategy RPGs?

It will be similar to Fallout. You can enter a zone and walk around freely, until you enter combat. Then, it becomes turn based.

 

[Confidence Man]

I hope it looks good. :/ If it has a cartoony aesthetic with oranges and purples and greens everywhere I'll be kind of pissed.

 

[Str0ngStyle]

Don't want to jump on the fuck america bandwagon, but yea. Please no US city

 

[randomkid]

It will be similar to Fallout. You can enter a zone and walk around freely, until you enter combat. Then, it becomes turn based.

Awesome, I couldn't find that info anywhere and they kept talking about discrete missions and stories so I wasn't sure if even minimal exploration was gonna be there. Also wasn't sure if being targeted for tablets would affect things.

I wish I could see a screenshot too, even just a mockup one. There's a lot of awesome art in that big PDF bible they released (very generously I might add) but also some not so awesome art, I'd love to get a taste of what the game would look like.

Edit: Oh and since they seem to be reading feedback on messageboards, non-US city for me too! Someone posted a huge list a while back and I liked Dubai, Nairobi and Tenochtitlan/Mexico City.

 

[MrCunningham]

Don't want to jump on the fuck america bandwagon, but yea. Please no US city

I agree, they already have Seattle which is good enough. it is also a nice underused location that you don't see in video games often. But for the second city, somewhere out side of America would be nice.

 

[Shaheed79]

No Grim Dawn KS topic? Titan's Quest was a great game.

 

[Dice]

No Grim Dawn KS topic? Titan's Quest was a great game.

They made a kickstarter? Fantastic! They were really struggling. And it has enough time that I'll be able to back it, sweeeet!

 

[EviLore]

No Grim Dawn KS topic? Titan's Quest was a great game.

Click search

Type in grim dawn

First result.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

And... We've crossed the 1.2mil mark! I hope this makes it to 2 million. Do we know how much they've received via Paypal?

 

[Shaheed79]

Click search

Type in grim dawn

First result.

I thought search was disabled a long time ago because of server limitations. Good to know it's actually working again. I've been using domain search commands from google for a while now.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Same. I'm controlling myself to not buy this watch.

I... do not have your control

 

[Aselith]

Same. I'm controlling myself to not buy this watch.

21,000,000 dollars!

 

[Zeliard]

Heh yeah that thing is a juggernaut.

 

[DTKT]

Kickstarter is really dangerous. I'm about to spend 400$ of things I will see in 2 years.

Oh god.

 

[Aselith]

Shadowrun crew really need to do something... anything...on their page. They haven't updated in 3 days and the pledges are flatlining.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Shadowrun crew really need to do something... anything...on their page. They haven't updated in 3 days and the pledges are flatlining.

I believe theyre prepping a video update for this week.

 

[frequency]

I'd like to see something about the actual game other than promises.

Like, even a mock up screenshot. Right now, I really have absolutely no idea what the game is supposed to be.

I like the SNES Shadowrun game and the world is really interesting. But I'm not going to blindly throw money at something.

 

[Somnia]

Just pledged $125, wonder if this has any chance of hitting $2 million.