Support NeoGAF

[chifanpoe]

I may have found a bug in the game. In the cyberware shop it will not let me upgrade my cyberleg (basic) to cyberleg (Alpha). They cost the same essense (2) and I have plenty of Nuyen.

I was able to upgrade my Mag Eyes from normal to Alpha no problem.

Anyone else run into this?

 

[Miletius]

I had a few hours this afternoon to sit down and dig into the game and I'm liking it so far. There are certain annoyances (chief being the lack of a save anywhere system) but overall the game seems to be fairly well crafted considering their budget and just having honest to goodness lots of different options when it comes to character building is really just tweaking my nose in the right way.

About an hour or so in, playing a dwarf machinist (robot controller).

 

[DiscoJer]

This is a very enjoyable game but I can't help noticing that it is also a very.......none-hardcore game.

The developer clearly aimed at the very mass market audience. Perhaps because that is their strength.

I hope and wish that this seemingly successful launch open the possibility of a more involved and complex sequel.

Well, bear in mind, I've seen more than a few complaints about dying in this thread, and one guy giving up on the game because it's too hard for him to progress.

That coupled with the save system that makes you replay stuff if you die, well...probably better to err on the side of easy. Especially since you can always make the game harder for yourself by not spending all your karma, not upgrading gear, and so forth.

I have to confess that it feels a bit awkward at the way so much random Japanese keeps popping up in normal conversation, especially when some of it is a bit misused (especially their use of "omae"). I'd figure any future where the Japanese haven't birth-rated themselves into extinction and the world isn't taken over by China is high fantasy indeed. (Just a joke, don't take it seriously)

Bear in mind, the Shadowrun universe was developed in the 1980s. I believe they eventually retconned the Soviet Union falling into the SR universe, but that was a minor background element. Japanese had been fairly well integrated into the game's slang.

 

[Dennis]

Well, bear in mind, I've seen more than a few complaints about dying in this thread, and one guy giving up on the game because it's too hard for him to progress.

lul wut

 

[vinicius]

If anyone else runs into this, you can press Ctrl-Alt-` (the key with the ~ on it) to enable debug mode, and then type "manualturnmode off" in the console in the top left. Press enter and you should go back to normal mode, and press Ctrl-Alt-` again to disable debug mode.

You can also just type "manualturnmode" to enter turn-based mode outside of combat, if you ever wanted to.

Great tip. Any other console tips commands that could be useful? I'm playing as a rigger and it seems my drones (got two of them) can't remember they have 4 AP, the first time I change scene they respawn with only 2.


Also the hud sometimes bugs with me (I think it's because I switch drones on/off a lot) and some portraits vanish.

 

[Decado]

Where is the manual for this game? No link to it in steam...please don't tell me it is in-game only.

 

[sk3tch]

The save system is bad and the devs themselves are aware of it. If they have the resources to (hopefully they will since the game seems to be selling really well) they will no doubt fix it at some point. I don't see the point of anyone attempting to defend what is a technical problem. It's stupid.

I don't think most fans asking for a better save system are demanding multiple save files, or even saving during battles. What most people expect and want is a manual system which allows you to save the game when you feel like quitting, instead of being at the mercy of a checkpoint system. If you've finished a mission and you're hanging around the safehouse talking to people, buying stuff, customizing your character, etc - you SHOULD be able to save when you're done and quit the game without feeling pressured to continue on with the story immediately just to hit a checkpoint to make the game save.

There is literally NO actual advantage to the current save system which cannot be retained while still allowing manual saving when not in combat or not in a run. None. Every single "accidental" advantage anyone can come up with to defend why the save system "isn't so bad" can still be retained with a manual save system without annoying people who want such a system.

Yikes. Need to track this. I can't stand checkpoint-based save systems due to the way my life works haha...kids, work, etc. - one reason I dump so much time into Borderlands 2! Very forgiving save system.

 

[HiddenWings]

Where is the manual for this game? No link to it in steam...please don't tell me it is in-game only.

Ok, then. I won't tell you.

 

[zkylon]

I blame tablets for all the shortcomings of this game

because art and story are very good, and all the problems are either interface, tech or design being too simple

 

[Decado]

Ok, then. I won't tell you.

What were they thinking! It's an RPG...who the fuck (besides Bioware) is dumb enough not to provide a proper manual?

 

[Zeliard]

The save system is bad and the devs themselves are aware of it. If they have the resources to (hopefully they will since the game seems to be selling really well) they will no doubt fix it at some point. I don't see the point of anyone attempting to defend what is a technical problem. It's stupid.

I don't think most fans asking for a better save system are demanding multiple save files, or even saving during battles. What most people expect and want is a manual system which allows you to save the game when you feel like quitting, instead of being at the mercy of a checkpoint system. If you've finished a mission and you're hanging around the safehouse talking to people, buying stuff, customizing your character, etc - you SHOULD be able to save when you're done and quit the game without feeling pressured to continue on with the story immediately just to hit a checkpoint to make the game save.

There is literally NO actual advantage to the current save system which cannot be retained while still allowing manual saving when not in combat or not in a run. None. Every single "accidental" advantage anyone can come up with to defend why the save system "isn't so bad" can still be retained with a manual save system without annoying people who want such a system.

Nailed it. It goes beyond some perceived measure against save scumming and ends up intruding on one's flexibility and comfort in going through the game. You shouldn't have to feel forced into hurrying things and getting to the next auto-save point when you are toiling around between combat missions and simply want to exit the game.

It's understandable why saving is the way it currently is from a tech & QA standpoint, but I'm not sure why anyone would defend it from a gameplay standpoint.

 

[LuchaShaq]

Is the save issue going to be the same on mobile?

I can't imagine ever willingly playing a handheld or mobile game that doesn't let me save anywhere.

If I was a backer I would be fucking pissed about this.

 

[Lingitiz]

I hate the save system but the game is excellent so far. The writing is strong and the combat is excellent. This game is going to outlive the first campaign though, so I'm looking forward to what people come up with.

 

[Blizzard]

Great tip. Any other console tips commands that could be useful? I'm playing as a rigger and it seems my drones (got two of them) can't remember they have 4 AP, the first time I change scene they respawn with only 2.


Also the hud sometimes bugs with me (I think it's because I switch drones on/off a lot) and some portraits vanish.

I'm not sure about those things, sorry. I didn't even realize drones could get 4 AP, lol.

 

[AColdDay]

How do you set overwatch?

 

[Munin]

Is the save issue going to be the same on mobile?

I can't imagine ever willingly playing a handheld or mobile game that doesn't let me save anywhere.

If I was a backer I would be fucking pissed about this.

I don't think it's relevant because you can simply suspend the game in the background?

 

[TrueMenace]

I'm 8 hours in. My major gripes are that the combat, mechanics, and pretty much everything else is very simplified and not complex. The combat is barebones, animations are poor making combat not that fun to experience. I'm playing on hard and it's not...hard, actually too easy. The variety of weapons/spells is lacking. I wish the combat was more fleshed out and animations were better and such.

 

[Ogimachi]

Is the save issue going to be the same on mobile?

I can't imagine ever willingly playing a handheld or mobile game that doesn't let me save anywhere.

If I was a backer I would be fucking pissed about this.

At least they warned people about it 3 months ago.

 

[Grayman]

How do you set overwatch?

Click the .) icon near your weapon. It only works if you have spent the karma up to the level that unlocks overwatch for that weapon though.

 

[cj_iwakura]

For it being 'non-hardcore', it does pretty much throw you right into the deep end of the Shadowrun universe. No primers.

 

[LuchaShaq]

I don't think it's relevant because you can simply suspend the game in the background?

On my ipad if you don't go back to it quick enough games often lose their suspend state.

 

[impirius]

Put a datajack on my mage just for fun since it said I'd have the same amount of Essence remaining afterwards and only later realized that it ate up an Essence point after all. D'oh. Don't trust the purchase screen!

 

[Nanashi]

The worst part for me was that the in-game help doesn't even describe what leylines actually do and why you would want to see them. No stranger to trial and error though.

Still, I grew up on RPGs where you could break someone's skull with the manual (especially the baldur's gate 2 manual) - miss those.

 

[Ken]

npc character models look better than my character

 

[Geoff9920]

For it being 'non-hardcore', it does pretty much throw you right into the deep end of the Shadowrun universe. No primers.

True, but they do include a glossary and bunch of other info in the help section of the menu.

 

[Grayman]

I finished the story and now can look at what has been put up on the steam workshop.

 

[Zeliard]

Put a datajack on my mage just for fun since it said I'd have the same amount of Essence remaining afterwards and only later realized that it ate up an Essence point after all. D'oh. Don't trust the purchase screen!

Also in case people aren't aware, reducing Essence by 1 also increases Cooldown by 1 turn on all spells, so consider that before putting cyberware on a magic user (especially since you can't remove cyberware after installing it, short of reloading).

 

[DiscoJer]

For it being 'non-hardcore', it does pretty much throw you right into the deep end of the Shadowrun universe. No primers.

I think the intended audience isn't so much video/computer game players, but Shadowrun fans. Specifically fans from the 80s and 90s versions.

 

[The_Monk]

Been reading some opinions from fellow GAFfers the few pages back and I'm quite loving what I've been reading so far.

The first time I saw this game gave me such a nostalgia from the first time I played Fallout 1 & 2 on my very old PC, back in the days. Now, with this game I feel I can lost myself in another world and spent countless hours playing it.

It's my first on my Wishlist and I really wish it could be a little cheaper. It's not that I can't get it right now but it's more of having other things that are a priority for my wallet right now, which is a shame but it is what it is. I was also a great surprise because I was not expecting to like this game so much.

Saw the Quick Look from Giant Bomb and loved it, might check someone streaming (if there are) since I keep thinking about this game.

Enjoy it fellow GAFfers! Hope to be able to join you all soon in this fine discussion.

 

[Unicorn]

Installing the game now, but does your character you make for campaign carry over into custom campaign stuff?

 

[erragal]

Nailed it. It goes beyond some perceived measure against save scumming and ends up intruding on one's flexibility and comfort in going through the game. You shouldn't have to feel forced into hurrying things and getting to the next auto-save point when you are toiling around between combat missions and simply want to exit the game.

It's understandable why saving is the way it currently is from a tech & QA standpoint, but I'm not sure why anyone would defend it from a gameplay standpoint.

Cute. Reprehensible, but cute. I personally just love knowing that people will have to repeat things over and over and over because they can't save exactly where they want. As long as that's the case it ultimately makes the game better. The core gameplay is not negatively impacted by the save system, simply the user experience. I personally don't judge games too heavily on how much they cater to the user experience; it's simply not a factor to judge a game by to me.

Now you are sure why someone would defend it though, so you're quite welcome.

 

[Eusis]

The problem seems to arise from a lack of resources to implement a save system whcih can track all the elements in the game state and restore them on load without introducing more bugs into the game. The checkpoint system ensures that there are basically no triggers or changes in the current game state to be tracked, since they are all placed when you first enter a fresh area. They don't have to track who you have already talked to, what you have done, etc. It only saves your character data and story progression.

It's not so much that making manual saves is impossible, but rather that it would be time consuming on the part of the programmers and it would also require much more testing and QA after implementation to make sure nothing is accidentally broken when loading such saves. The complexity would directly translate to more cost and more delays.

We'll see what happens in a week or so, since by then there should be a good indication of how successful the launch of the game is. I'm sure they'll address improvements to the game and discuss the Berlin campaign based on how well the game is selling. Fingers crossed!

Depending on how well the game did I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they opted to just make a Shadowrun Returns 2 that DOES have a proper save system, but that depends on how they coded this and if they can ever properly address it. Other games in the same engine are managing it it sounds like so I've got a little hope there, but I'm just going to assume we won't see it.

Bear in mind, the Shadowrun universe was developed in the 1980s. I believe they eventually retconned the Soviet Union falling into the SR universe, but that was a minor background element. Japanese had been fairly well integrated into the game's slang.

Japan stuff's also traditionally been a pretty big part of cyberpunk, so even if that was an aspect born from the 80s when it looked like Japan really was set to take over the economic world, only to implode on themselves and make that look dated instead, it's still a key part of the flavor in my eyes and isn't as outright wrong as the USSR kicking around. Plus you can definitely argue the style angle, and at any rate they still are pushing technological boundaries so it's not wholly unreasonable that they'd at least be SIGNIFICANT even if not DOMINATING.

 

[Sothpaw]

You know what fuck it. Not worth playing with this save system.

 

[garath]

Cute. Reprehensible, but cute. I personally just love knowing that people will have to repeat things over and over and over because they can't save exactly where they want. As long as that's the case it ultimately makes the game better. The core gameplay is not negatively impacted by the save system, simply the user experience. I personally don't judge games too heavily on how much they cater to the user experience; it's simply not a factor to judge a game by to me.

Now you are sure why someone would defend it though, so you're quite welcome.

Talk about repeating yourself over and over. Thought you were all about the intelligent discourse. Calling peoples' opinions shallow and reprehensible doesn't really drive your point home either.

 

[Psychoward]

Cute. Reprehensible, but cute. I personally just love knowing that people will have to repeat things over and over and over because they can't save exactly where they want. As long as that's the case it ultimately makes the game better. The core gameplay is not negatively impacted by the save system, simply the user experience. I personally don't judge games too heavily on how much they cater to the user experience; it's simply not a factor to judge a game by to me.

Now you are sure why someone would defend it though, so you're quite welcome.

The gameplay is what the user experiences by playing the game.... The save system definitely affects the gameplay. Take a look at Xcom Enemy Unkown, people who played that on Ironman mode (no reloading saves) probably approached the game differently than people who were able to save all the time.

 

[Achtius]

stupid question, when you hire people on a contract,do you keep them forever or just for that mission ?

 

[Gvaz]

There are checkpoints, no manual saves?

:|

Sometimes I may have to simply get up and do things and be an adult, otherwise my alternative is to press escape to the main menu and leave my computer on running the game until I can get back to it.

Also I'm hearing about permadeath? ugh.

 

[Lime]

Oh man, some of the remixes of the old songs are pretty catchy and cool to listen to. I really like the new "Morgue" remix. Here's the old one for comparison

Sinatar, I now know what you meant by the similarities to the Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries soundtracks of old. Some of the rock tunes are definitely reminiscent of the guitar riffs coupled with the synth.

 

[MrCunningham]

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Current  Peak (today)
93,306 	397,368 	  	Dota 2
54,051 	62,095 	  	Sid Meier's Civilization V
50,829 	65,598 	  	Team Fortress 2
29,286 	38,149 	  	The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
26,540 	31,616 	  	Garry's Mod
25,384 	29,517 	  	Borderlands 2
23,636 	36,560 	  	Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
23,313 	41,888 	  	Football Manager 2013
18,461 	33,128 	  	Counter-Strike
16,652 	24,329 	  	Shadowrun Returns

One day after release, and it is still the tenth most played game on Steam right now. I would love ti know what the sales numbers for this game are. It's still number 1 on the Steam sales charts.

 

[eznark]

so...is there a known save bug?

Huh, looks like it. Gonna have to recommend people steer clear of this one.

 

[zkylon]

There are checkpoints, no manual saves?

:|

Sometimes I may have to simply get up and do things and be an adult, otherwise my alternative is to press escape to the main menu and leave my computer on running the game until I can get back to it.

Also I'm hearing about permadeath? ugh.

not really permadeath, if you die you get kicked to the last checkpoint

sometimes that makes you lose 15 minutes, which is annoying

 

[Data West]

This is a very enjoyable game but I can't help noticing that it is also a very.......none-hardcore game.

The developer clearly aimed at the very mass market audience. Perhaps because that is their strength.

I hope and wish that this seemingly successful launch open the possibility of a more involved and complex sequel.

I don't know. No manual saves sounds pretty hardcore to me.

That said, straight up, this game could be an adventure game. Easily.

 

[Sinatar]

A HBS employee posted a temporary fix for the audio popping/hitching issue.

Add this to your launch properties: -force-gfx-st

 

[Blizzard]

so...is there a known save bug?

Huh, looks like it. Gonna have to recommend people steer clear of this one.

As far as I can tell from people talking about lost saves, if the game crashes or is closed via alt-F4 or task manager, it might happen. I'm not sure I have seen any reports of a save being lost when someone saw "Game Autosaved" and was able to quit the game through the main menu exit option, but of course there may be some I am not aware of.

 

[eznark]

As far as I can tell from people talking about lost saves, if the game crashes or is closed via alt-F4 or task manager, it might happen. I'm not sure I have seen any reports of a save being lost when someone saw "Game Autosaved" and was able to quit the game through the main menu exit option, but of course there may be some I am not aware of.

I finished the first mission, walked around the apartment, then quit to main menu and exited the game. Loaded it up and I'm starting all over.

 

[Mackenzie 92]

so...is there a known save bug?

Huh, looks like it. Gonna have to recommend people steer clear of this one.

Haven't had any problems here. Great game.

I finished the first mission, walked around the apartment, then quit to main menu and exited the game. Loaded it up and I'm starting all over.

Ah, probably doesn't autosave until you leave the apartment. It is pretty stupid not to have save anywhere feature.

 

[bhlaab]

Is there a config file somewhere or a command prompt I can use to disable gamepads? The camera automatically scrolls to the top left and it's a pain to have to unplug everything just to play and then replug everything afterwards.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I don't know. No manual saves sounds pretty hardcore to me.

That said, straight up, this game could be an adventure game. Easily.

It is an adventure game.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Is there a config file somewhere or a command prompt I can use to disable gamepads? The camera automatically scrolls to the top left and it's a pain to have to unplug everything just to play and then replug everything afterwards.

I've had that happen on mouse too.

 

[zkylon]

I don't know. No manual saves sounds pretty hardcore to me.

That said, straight up, this game could be an adventure game. Easily.

yeah I really enjoy that part of it, takes me back to the snes game.

I wish it was a bit more open like the snes version, tho