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[Garlador]

So... who was responsible for this heinous act of patriotism?

 

[WascallyWabbit]

yes. much like a cop letting you off with warning instead of a speeding ticket, they don't have to pursue.

Certainly, I agree with you in your example that they can look the other way. However this was an extremely public instance of a law being broken and in this case with the publicity that it's generated, law enforcement has to uphold the law when people ask them about it. I don't think in this case they could have avoided making a public statement

Can you imagine if he said something like "screw it, we're not going to go looking for these guys"? That would be immediate grounds for dismissal as he'd be directly violating his sworn duty

 

[JettDash]

If I was on the jury, I would vote not guilty even if it was 100% certain to me that they committed a felony.

Fuck your confederate statue.

 

[Slayven]

Even the poorer population forced into the Confederate army through conscription?

I'm all for tearing down the monuments (which weren't erected in good faith in the first place) for the record. I'm just not seeing what makes every individual soldier a "horrible piece of shit". It's like condemning every foot soldier in the Nazi army

The fact both were fighting for the death of others....

 

[tmarg]

Certainly, I agree with you in your example that they can look the other way. However this was an extremely public instance of a law being broken and in this case with the publicity that it's generated, law enforcement has to uphold the law when people ask them about it. I don't think in this case they could have avoided making a public statement

Can you imagine if he said something like "screw it, we're not going to go looking for these guys"? That would be immediate grounds for dismissal as he'd be directly violating his sworn duty

It would be like that time those thugs refused to leave the whites only restaurants.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Suck a cactus, you traitor loving fucks. Care more about a statue than finding Nazis.

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

You'd have to be either blind or remarkably stupid to think there wouldn't be charges pressed over this.

 

[AtomskEater]

"Vote Democrat so maybe we can remove that law"

Voter registration shows majority of people are registered as Democrats.
http://www.dconc.gov/home/showdocument?id=20870
Dunno how to look up statistics for how many people are voting in various elections, though. But hopefully that law does get repealed.

Until then, I'm willing to look the other way for citizens removing the statues on their own initiative, they should have been removed forever ago (they should have never been put up).
Edit: Lol, I say I'm "willing to look the other way" but it's not like I'm involved with law enforcement or otherwise going to have direct control over how this turns out.

 

[Nekofrog]

Even the poorer population forced into the Confederate army through conscription?

I'm all for tearing down the monuments (which weren't erected in good faith in the first place) for the record. I'm just not seeing what makes every individual soldier a "horrible piece of shit". It's like condemning every foot soldier in the Nazi army

Yes? How is this a question? They fought and killed to continue the enslavement of an entire race of human fucking beings. Fuck every single person who ever put that uniform on. They're burning in the imaginary hell they believe in, with fire pokers up their kkk butts.

Not a single one of them deserves to be honored in public cities where those they fought to enslave still live and reside.

 

[lyrick]

How would this qualify as a felony?

 

[Albino_Yeti]

No there isn't a way to "honor the boys in grey" because they shouldn't fucking be honored. They should certainly be remembered as being horrible sacks of shit though.

Not every Confederate soldier supported racism. Just like not every German soldier supported Nazism. Many were just normal people either forced to fight, or pressured into fighting for their home state/ home country.

On the topic at hand, why is anyone surprised this is happening? I mean those guys tore down a public monument with no permission to do so. Noble cause or not, the law is the law.

They shouldn't have done it in the middle of the day, with everyone filming each others faces. Literally just creating evidence against yourself.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

"Find a better way to remove the statues" when a law went on the books in 2015 that they can't be removed or even altered without some historical society signing off on it.

The better way is to wear masks next time.

 

[Eusis]

How would this qualify as a felony?

Yeah, better not get further than a misdemeanor at worst. I can respect following the law in the sense that TECHNICALLY they did something wrong and need to be punished, but don't hang a fucking felony over their heads because some shitlords wouldn't permit a city to remove their own statues.

 

[Koomaster]

Ah I see, wink wink nudge nudge, tear down the statues in the middle of the night and when nobody is watching. Gotcha.

 

[Nekofrog]

Not every Confederate soldier supported racism. Just like not every German soldier supported Nazism. Many were just normal people either forced to fight, or pressured into fighting for their home state/ home country.

Who gives a shit? They still murdered for the enslavement of human beings just because of their skin color.

I don't care if they were great slave massas who never hit their slaves, no sir. We don't fucking honor these people regardless of who they were, we do not honor them because they did horrible things for horrible reasons.

 

[Oersted]

Not every Confederate soldier supported racism. Just like not every German soldier supported Nazism. Many were just normal people either forced to fight, or pressured into fighting for their home state/ home country.

Last time I check fighting for a cause means the support of a cause.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Yes? How is this a question? They fought and killed to continue the enslavement of an entire race of human fucking beings. Fuck every single person who ever put that uniform on. They're burning in the imaginary hell they believe in, with fire pokers up their kkk butts.

Yeah,It gets me that considering most these people saying it's honoring there ancestors are actually just pissing on them as there from the North your ancestors fought in the Union for fucks sake if they were even here. I got pissed at my Dad today for defending these statues as he being completely ignorant of this own family history ,His ancestors were Welsh Quakers from Pennsylvania aka people who were against slavery long before the civil war even started , He shouldn't have a fucking bone of Southern Pride in him.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Not every Confederate soldier supported racism. Just like not every German soldier supported Nazism. Many were just normal people either forced to fight, or pressured into fighting for their home state/ home country.

On the topic at hand, why is anyone surprised this is happening? I mean those guys tore down a public monument with no permission to do so. Noble cause or not, the law is the law.

They shouldn't have done it in the middle of the day, with everyone filming each others faces. Literally just creating evidence against yourself.

The vast majority of yeoman farmers and other non-slave holders supported slavery and the Confederate cause because they were afraid that if the slaves were freed, they'd lose what little privilege and power they had. At least with slavery there was always someone they could look down on .

 

[KHarvey16]

Again keep in mind the DA of the county this happened in is a democrat and an African American. The sheriff can write whatever he wants but the DA decides what charges are applied. I'm pretty confident that if the case is persued there won't be any kind of real punishment.

 

[Verelios]

That's bullshit.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

Last time I check fighting for a cause means the support of a cause.

Who gives a shit? They still murdered for the enslavement of human beings just because of their skin color.

I don't care if they were great slave massas who never hit their slaves, no sir. We don't fucking honor these people regardless of who they were, we do not honor them because they did horrible things for horrible reasons.

I didn't say they should be honored, but it's important to differentiate between the actual racists, and those who's friends all joined up so they did too, or those who literally had to join up because they got drafted and it was either join or be thrown in jail/executed.

The vast majority of yeoman farmers and other non-slave holders supported slavery and the Confederate cause because they were afraid that if the slaves were freed, they'd lose what little privilege and power they had. At least with slavery there was always someone they could look down on .

Sure, all I'm saying is it's unfair to say that literally 100% of Confederates were racists. History is more complex than that.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

All white police men are pretty much part of the KKK or some other White Supremacist group at this point.

 

[Zertez]

The fact both were fighting for the death of others....

That's pretty much every side involved in a war.

 

[Dhx]

How would this qualify as a felony?

I think you may be correct here unless there is another statute that I am unable to locate.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-132.html

Often, states have escalators tied to the amount of damage (similar to theft escalators), but I'm not seeing anything of the sort upon a cursory glance. Open season and class II misdemeanors (30 days to 6 months max) for all as long as you don't use an incendiary device.

All white police men are pretty much part of the KKK or some other White Supremacist group at this point.

I guess that's why the police force refused to stand by and went in wielding batons.

 

[Slayven]

I didn't say they should be honored, but it's important to differentiate between the actual racists, and those who's friends all joined up so they did too, or those who literally had to join up because they got drafted and it was either join or be thrown in jail/executed.


Sure, all I'm saying is it's unfair to say that literally 100% of Confederates were racists. History is more complex than that.

But the Confederacy was formed to maintain the institution of slavery, if they weren't racist, they were at least ok with it, which is the same thing

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I didn't say they should be honored, but it's important to differentiate between the actual racists, and those who's friends all joined up so they did too, or those who literally had to join up because they got drafted and it was either join or be thrown in jail/executed.


Sure, all I'm saying is it's unfair to say that literally 100% of Confederates were racists. History is more complex than that.

You know what else is unfair? 100+ years of slavery and 150+ years of oppression and terrorism.

Germany doesn't have monuments to the Wehrmarcht that weren't Nazis or Nazi Sympathizers, no reason the US should have monuments to the extremely tiny fraction of Confederate soldiers who weren't as bad as everyone else.

 

[psyfi]

We can't let any prosecution move forward, we can't let anyone be locked up for this. Fight.

 

[Maxinas]

Who cares. This mans authority means nothing.

 

[Slayven]

That's pretty much every side involved in a war.

Ok strawman

 

[DustyVonEric]

Stop snitchin'

 

[Reeks]

200 hours of community service each, to be spent removing the rest of them.

Beautiful

 

[Albino_Yeti]

But the Confederacy was formed to maintain the institution of slavery, if they weren't racist, they were at least ok with it, which is the same thing

That's possible, or they happened to live in the South and couldn't really do anything about it, because they were too poor to move, or their entire family lived in the South.

You know what else is unfair? 100+ years of slavery and 150+ years of oppression and terrorism.

Germany doesn't have monuments to the Wehrmarcht that weren't Nazis or Nazi Sympathizers, no reason the US should have monuments to the extremely tiny fraction of Confederate soldiers who weren't as bad as everyone else.

I didn't say we should have monuments for the Confederates.

 

[Enzom21]

Not all confederate or nazi soldiers are bad...
I don't know why shit like this surprises me, not surprised by who is posting it though.

 

[Nekofrog]

I didn't say they should be honored, but it's important to differentiate between the actual racists, and those who's friends all joined up so they did too, or those who literally had to join up because they got drafted and it was either join or be thrown in jail/executed.


Sure, all I'm saying is it's unfair to say that literally 100% of Confederates were racists. History is more complex than that.

All I'm reading is wanting to make excuses for vile racists. The number of people you talk about are so few and inconsequential (and long dead) that it bears repeating: fuck them all.

What's your real end game here? Because nobody could be arguing your point in good faith without having come to the realization that evil needs to be never honored. It doesn't matter how "innocent" your reasons are.

 

[Dhx]

That's possible, or they happened to live in the South and couldn't really do anything about it, because they were too poor to move, or their entire family lived in the South.

Take poor French settlers in Louisiana for example. You think they were leaving when many could barely speak or understand English? They lived on family farms for the most part and were not slave owners. Nuance is dead, unfortunately.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Last time I check fighting for a cause means the support of a cause.

Every soldier in Vietnam agreed with what we were doing there?

 

[kadotsu]

Take poor French settlers in Louisiana for example. You think they were leaving when many could barely speak or understand English? They lived on family farms for the most part and were not slave owners. Nuance is dead, unfortunately.

Show me their statues and I'll defend them.

 

[Slayven]

That's possible, or they happened to live in the South and couldn't really do anything about it, because they were too poor to move, or their entire family lived in the South.

I didn't say we should have monuments for the Confederates.

Doesn't excused their support of the system of Slavery, there are cases of people refusing to fight in the south.

One of reasons we are in this miss is people doing what you are doing. Inftantlizing and minimizing people's actions in the support of racism.

literally #notallracists

 

[The Kree]

We'll never run out of excuses for the executors and participants of institutional racism.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

All I'm reading is wanting to make excuses for vile racists. The number of people you talk about are so few and inconsequential (and long dead) that it bears repeating: fuck them all.

What's your real end game here? Because nobody could be arguing your point in good faith without having come to the realization that evil needs to be never honored. It doesn't matter how "innocent" your reasons are.

Once again, I'm not saying the Confederacy should be honored...

History is more complex than sweeping generalizations. Were all Confederates racist? No. Were most of them racist? Yea probably. So were a lot of Union soldiers. Should those Southerners who weren't racists and didn't support the secession leave the South? In a perfect world yea, but that's not always an option.

 

[Dhx]

Show me their statues and I'll defend them.

Well, this particular point wasn't about statues if you follow the discussion chain up. I agree the statues should have come down years ago.

Won't somebody think of the supporters of racism and inhuman treatment

#bothsides

Talk about straw men. Do you ever have a discussion in good faith?

 

[Slayven]

Once again, I'm not saying the Confederacy should be honored...

History is more complex than sweeping generalizations. Were all Confederates racist? No. Were most of them racist? Yea probably. So were a lot of Union soldiers. Should those Southerners who weren't racists and didn't support the secession leave the South? In a perfect world yea, but that's not always an option.

Won't somebody think of the supporters of racism and inhuman treatment

#bothsides

 

[Astral/H3X]

If they followed those orders then they agreed.

Fought bravely for the right to own, rape, and murder another human being. Real brave tstuff

Yeah, uh, let's not pretend that I get a choice if fuck face decides we go to war with Mexico. Being in the military, disobeying orders is punishable up to and including death. Draft time? Welcome to the Army, guy who *really* doesn't want to be here.
I could be wrong, maybe everyone who died on the confederate side was a racist shitbag, but I'd doubt it. Military isn't always voluntary.

Great, that's what a museum is for. These shitty statues were put up in public places like courthouses to intimidate.

Oh don't worry I wholly agree with taking the statue down, I was only speaking about the idea of remembering the people who died in, like, a general sense.

As a point, I can't remember his name (sadly), but there was a German WWII officer who was staunchly opposed to Hitler's Nazi-ism and refused to wear the Nazi uniform. Still had to contribute to the war.

 

[The Kree]

Once again, I'm not saying the Confederacy should be honored...

History is more complex than sweeping generalizations. Were all Confederates racist? No. Were most of them racist? Yea probably. So were a lot of Union soldiers. Should those Southerners who weren't racists and didn't support the secession leave the South? In a perfect world yea, but that's not always an option.

I can't figure out why this is a relevant or worthwhile argument to be making.

 

[theWB27]

Hadn't heard the what about individual soldiers argument. Scraping the barrels to shine some type of positive light on the confederates.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Hadn't heard the what about individual soldiers argument. Scraping the barrels to shine some type of positive light on the confederates.

Absolutely not. Fuck the confederacy.

But I'll have pity for random joe #65 who wanted nothing to do with anything but was conscripted and told to fight anyway.

 

[Slayven]

Yeah, uh, let's not pretend that I get a choice if fuck face decides we go to war with Mexico. Being in the military, disobeying orders is punishable up to and including death. Draft time? Welcome to the Army, guy who *really* doesn't want to be here.
I could be wrong, maybe everyone who died on the confederate side was a racist shitbag, but I'd doubt it. Military isn't always voluntary.



Oh don't worry I wholly agree with taking the statue down, I was only speaking about the idea of remembering the people who died in, like, a general sense.

As a point, I can't remember his name (sadly), but there was a German WWII officer who was staunchly opposed to Hitler's Nazi-ism and refused to wear the Nazi uniform. Still had to contribute to the war.

False equivalence, even with trump can you see the USA going to war to maintain the right to enslave?

Well, this particular point wasn't about statues if you follow the discussion chain up. I agree the statues should have come down years ago.



Talk about straw men. Do you ever have a discussion in good faith?

Inhuman rights are not a discussion. If you want to cosign rape, murder, and maiming. Do you, but I won't legitimize it by calling it a discussion

 

[theWB27]

Absolutely not. Fuck the confederacy.

But I'll have pity for random joe #65 who wanted nothing to do with anything but was conscripted and told to fight anyway.

"Im going to pick someone i don't even know existed and honor thy name."

 

[Slayven]

Absolutely not. Fuck the confederacy.

But I'll have pity for random joe #65 who wanted nothing to do with anything but was conscripted and told to fight anyway.

You don't support the confederacy's state charter racism, but you will random #joe 65's right to treat a black person as property?

You not defending the confederacy, by defending it?

 

[Astral/H3X]

False equivalence, even with trump can you see the USA going to war to maintain the right to enslave?

What I'm saying is, if Trump went to war against, Iunno California or some shit, it doesn't matter what my opinions are as an enlisted soldier -- Either I fight for Kaiser Fuckface, or I possibly face death. Personally? Might choose death. Best thing I can hope for is some sense befalls America and the shit just stops cold.

But like, if that were to happen, and I were to be killed, I'd sure hope I wouldn't be remembered solely as some cruel heartless bastard who fought to destroy California, or whatever horrendous thing I was forced to do.

You don't support the confederacy's state charter racism, but you will random #joe 65's right to treat a black person as property?

Never said that. Not even once, not for a single microsecond. I said I will support a shred of pity for those who died in a war they didn't support.