We have to protect our families from the war of northern aggression! I imagine young, uneducated people were just as easy to manipulate back then. But it's a moot point. The people might not all have been racist but the service they joined was. There's no reason they should be honored for being part of the confederate army. Why would you honor people for their terrible decision making skills?
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Sheriff pursuing felonies after Confederate statue torn down
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
Astral/H3X
Member
"Joined" and "decision" are strong words for "Conscripted".
Once again would the 2017 go to war to defend slavery?
You are defending people that fought to keep others in chains, if that is not support i don't know what its. People don't say John Wayne Gacy was a serial killer sure but he was a hell of a birthday clown.
Astral/H3X
Member
"Wow, people were killed after being forced to take part in a war they didn't want, wanted no part of, over something they didn't want (slavery). Man, you know, it really sucks to be dragged into something like that, when you really didn't agree with it. It's kinda sad you know?"
"You're a racist!"
"You're a racist!"
If the people you claim were good people, why weren't black people welcome with open arms after the war? Why did reconstruction fail? Why did Jim Crow come into being?
They didn't have a musket to their head 24 hours a day for 60 years.
You are absolving people of an evil they proudly committed and worked hard to evolve and refine in new ways
Too many of you are being obtuse. While I agree that there should be no monuments, the responses to that post is pretty shameful.
Only in a perfect world would most people that been drafted or were desperate for cash would still reject it. I didn't agree with the Iraq War, but if there was a draft for it or I was already in the military, I wouldn't disobey orders to go into Iraq. That isn't a decision one grunt can make unless it is an obviously unlawful order.
Yes, there were "normal" people who wasn't exactly fighting for those things specifically that were in the confederate army. We can argue that those guys were in the minority and not truly worth mentioning when speaking of the confederacy.
You're arguing a dumb point that nobody brought up in the first place. We are currently in the throes of a massive right wing Nazi facist resurgence and you want to coddle racist Southerners by saying "not all y'all ancestors were racist, I get it!" In the face of their violence and murder.
Do you see a problem here?
And to the post above: nobody is being fucking obtuse. We are telling you that your argument is irrelevant in today's society.
Only thing shameful is people willing to give evil the benefit of the doubt
Such a ludicrous characterization. You have been very quick to decry other posts as logical fallacies while steadfastly charging forth with your own.
Astral/H3X
Member
Page 1:
""I've walked by this statue several times in the last few weeks. And I've wondered, if it is appropriate," said Emily Yeatts, an attorney in Durham. "If there IS a way to remember and honor, as it says, 'The boys who wore the gray,' without also lending some legitimacy to the cause for which they fought. This statue has struck me as out of place in Durham, for some time. And while I was surprised to see the news footage last night, it seemed right.""
Me: "Okay yeah, I can see remembering the people who were dragged into that war completely against their will (and possibly moral compass), but statues aren't really appropriate for it"
GAF: "You're a racist and love the confederacy!"
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Posts like this are why things will never truly improve in America and why we lose people like Heather Heyer
They could have fought for America instead of turning their back on their country because they loved slavery so much. Stop acting like they just woke up on a battlefield wearing gray.
Nobody in the Confederacy deserves to be honored, accidental racist or not. You can advocate for accidental racists all you want, that's your call to arms, not mine.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Are you really trying to "both sides" the fucking Civil War?
Jesus Fucking Christ.
Astral/H3X
Member
God, I *REALLY* hate to go here, but if ISIS straps a bomb on some kid and blows them up, we don't call the child ISIS do we?
Can we really not recognize that choice and individual morals don't apply when drafts are flying around? You don't exactly get to opt out of that shit.
Since *apparently* I have to say this, I fucking hate the KKK, fucking hate the Nazis, fucking hate the confederacy, and my blood is absolutely boiling over the press conference.
Albino_Yeti
Member
Literally my only argument is that not all Confederate soldiers were horrible people, which I said in response to a poster who said that all Confederate soldiers were "horrible sacks of shit." The Confederacy itself was a sack of shit, but some people were forced to fight in a war they didn't support. Like Vietnam. Or Iraq. Are they horrible people because they were forced to do something they didn't want to? No, I don't think so. The horrible people were the actual racists that willingly joined up so they could keep the slaves in their place. Was that most of the Confederate army? Yea, sure. I didn't say that wasn't true. I'm just saying it's important to realize that not every Confederate soldier was a supporter of the Confederate's ideals.
But apparently I support racism and the Confederacy so whatever.
No, actually, I'm not.
yanipheonu
Member
There is a difference between what is Right and what is Legal.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Not remotely the same, but if that's how you see it then there's really no point in trying to convince you otherwise
Psychoward
Banned
Bruv we got that on gaf, one of the most solidly liberal large forums on the Internet.
LiquidSword
Member
How about fuck you and your racist idols. It's time to finally finish reconstruction
Dash_Riprock
Member
Oh, wont someone please think of the poor white oppressors!?
We're not talking about children here.
Psychoward
Banned
The statue literally made a reference to preserving anglo-Saxon culture and was made to intimidate civil rights activists. It was not honoring confederate soldiers who were drafted against their will so you guys can miss me with that bs.
Astral/H3X
Member
So I guess all the people drafted and sent to Vietnam hate the Vietnamese? All the guys we send to Iraq and Afghanistan hate brown people? Is that it? We can't separate individuals from a military entity?
Holy shit really? You might wanna mention the mentally handicapped too, but since you know that children and the mentally handicapped can't make that kind of decision knowingly, it's an incredibly dishonest argument.
That is very nice, except that isn't how real shit goes down. People couldn't just willy-nilly walk from their home en masse to join the U.S. The people who did escape were in the minority because they were willing to risk everything and even abandon their families for it and I applaud them, but condemning those who can't or didn't as if they were completely for it is silly.
Did reading comprehension fail you or are you just too emotional and not thinking?
Umm.. no you all have shameful posts.
Astral/H3X
Member
YOU CAN'T MAKE A DECISION DURING A DRAFT.
IT IS NOT A CHOICE.
DO YOU GUYS NOT KNOW HOW A DRAFT WORKS
Psychoward
Banned
The statue was honoring that entity.
Lots of Republican politicians did. Fuck out of here with your shit. Sorry they fought for the wrong side, they don't deserve to be remembered except as the Confederacy should be. Evil. By the way I know how a draft works, I've served in the military.
Astral/H3X
Member
And, as I said in my very first post, a statue isn't appropriate.
I literally said, let's remember those few guys who died for something they didn't believe in.
You're right, rich people who could pay someone to be a substitute, or had enough slaves to be considered important, could opt out.
That's not everyone.
Albino_Yeti
Member
No one (I think) is saying that the statue should have stayed up.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Chuckling at people clearly ignorant of history pretending to be smart
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I mean, this isn't really surprising. Tearing down government property was bound to lead to legal issues for the people involved.
They probably should have worn masks.
They probably should have worn masks.
The woman in the article is asking how it's possible to honor "the boys who wore the gray" WITHOUT ALSO lending legitimacy. As in it can't be done. She's expressing doubt because the statue explicitly states "the boys who wore gray." She makes that obvious by sharing her thought that she thought it should have been removed a while ago.
She is not wondering about soldiers who were "dragged" into war because this statue isn't making a point about that. Her mixed feelings are about how it was removed.
You've been off base from the start.
Astral/H3X
Member
If there is information that clearly defines that literally everyone who was in the Confederate Army agreed with the notion of slavery and splitting the country for it, then okay! I'm wrong. If we know that everyone there was a shit bag, then yup, they are all shit bags, and as soon as presented the evidence that everyone who died in a gray uniform shared those views then okay.
But I'd be much more willing to bet that we know definitively that there were people vehemently against it that died fighting on that side.
I still can't figure out why this is a relevant or worthwhile argument to be making right now.
oh really what eighteenth century conflict did you serve during
No, I don't agree.
I will say, I don't like the fact that the Confederate statues are out in the public eye. But let's face it, eventually they will come down and go to museums, where they belong.
People should not be breaking the law and/or pissing other people off, especially in times like these, when so many are on edge and acts like these could incite more violence. They should follow legal, civil, and non-violent means to remove the statues.
HyperCroutons
Member
How would this qualify as a felony?
I just got into this thread so it may have been answered but they might charge the ones who toppled the statue with Criminal Mischief second degree which is a felony depending on how much the statute cost. But I'm only familiar with NY state law so not sure if its the same in NC.
Hint: it's not. It's a stupid tangent. These statues were erected to intimidate black people and honor soldiers who consciously fought in the war to support slavery.
There's a thing called military history. We study as well as serve while training. Try and be a bit less snarky though, it was hard to read through the frothing rush to try and gotcha post
Psychoward
Banned
The war was morally wrong from day 0. The confederacy didn't have a strong national court and many people sued state courts for conscription practices. Even if you refused you weren't lined up in a firing squad. That doesn't take in to account trying to relocate to the north or the comparisons to what slaves had to do just to survive. People who served in the confederacy willingly or not do not deserve to be honored.
Astral/H3X
Member
I interpreted her message as honoring the fact that fighting in a war is fucking terrifying, right wrong or indifferent, it's fucking terrifying. I added, okay, you know, some people probably got thrown in there, so I can understand wanting a level of rememberance of them. BUT NOT WITH A STATUE
Because if you show empathy for anyone who died for something they didn't agree in, no they actually agreed in it wholeheartedly and were a piece of shit, and I'm a piece of shit too!
fluffydelusions
Member
Looks like they arrested someone already
http://wncn.com/2017/08/15/durham-s...-protesters-who-tore-down-confederate-statue/
http://wncn.com/2017/08/15/durham-s...-protesters-who-tore-down-confederate-statue/
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