In the cannon, Mycroft is just too lazy to check his work or argue his points. Just knowing that he's right is often enough, plus he doesn't like going outside.
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Sherlock Series 3 |OT| - THE Source for Fictions Cheekbone Fetish
- Thread starter PhoncipleBone
- Start date
In the cannon, Mycroft is just too lazy to check his work or argue his points. Just knowing that he's right is often enough, plus he doesn't like going outside.
VanquishUK
Member
And this, yes. I forgot about that.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Superior intelligence and deductive skills are different things. Mycroft has been outplayed by CAM and Moriarty, and although Sherlock was "outsmarted" by both of them he still came out on top.
VanquishUK
Member
Well yes, he's Sherlock Holmes. Wouldn't be much of a Sherlock Holmes Book/TV Show/Movie if he got beaten by everyone.
Moran wasn't actually established as having any link to Moriarty in this canon, was he?
VanquishUK
Member
If they make us wait for Moriarty and it isn't actually Moriarty, I'm going to be fucking pissed.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Mildly disappointed in this episode but still enjoyed it a lot.
The 5 minute scene where Sherlock saves his own life was pretty cool until you realized the whole scene was pointless because his murderer wasn't trying to kill him anyway.
The twist with Mary was only mildly interesting. Magnusson was an awesome villain but the way he went out wasn't so great. Magnusson probably should've seen the gunshot coming. And Sherlock's GPS plan really wasn't that clever, I was hoping Sherlock would have another layer of plan after he realized there were no vaults.
I don't know, it was a fun episode. Magnusson scenes were probably the best part.
The twist with Mary was only mildly interesting. Magnusson was an awesome villain but the way he went out wasn't so great. Magnusson probably should've seen the gunshot coming. And Sherlock's GPS plan really wasn't that clever, I was hoping Sherlock would have another layer of plan after he realized there were no vaults.
I don't know, it was a fun episode. Magnusson scenes were probably the best part.
The "Hey, you guys are lying, abusing pricks"/"Shut up John, you know you want it you masochist you" mechanic is getting a bit tiring. Watson isn't evolving, he's actually getting worse, and the show keeps picturing his neurosis as a funny/endearing trait. I'm not sure why, but I just find it irritating.
A good finale otherwise, apart from the underwhelming lack of consequences.
A good finale otherwise, apart from the underwhelming lack of consequences.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Well, let's put it this way: Sherlock's opponents (and I'm including Mycroft in this) underestimated him despite their supposed superior intelligence.
The difference between him and the others is how they use their mind. CAM and Moriarty are morally reprehensible psychopaths who only act to furthur their own interests. While Mycroft does apply his intelligence on a wider scale for the greater good it means he's willing to break a few eggs, even if one of them is his brother.
However, Sherlock seems to work on a much smaller scale and despite his frosty exterior seems to actually care for people in his life. I think that slight amount of selflessness is what makes him unpredictable and ultimately victorious.
Janine is extremely hot I agree.
I suspect that's what the viral marketing's going to be like in the run up to S4...
This has been alluded to several times in the series. He was in the military, remember.
You can blame Conan Doyle for those two.
I think those three examples are perhaps not the best you can choose.
aLaxLuthor
Member
Heres my theory.
Apologies if others have already summised as such, I couldn't see it here.
Moriaty is Holmes' half brother.
Sherlocks mum is a math genius, like Moriaty is in the books.
She was married to a Mr Moriaty before she married Mr Holmes.
Mary starts to tell John 'do you know why Sherlock brought us here?' when at their house. Its because she can tell that they've managed to put something in their past and move on.
Mycroft's mention of the other one, implying the torture he put James through.
It will be the senior Moriaty returning.
Sherlocks mum is a math genius, like Moriaty is in the books.
She was married to a Mr Moriaty before she married Mr Holmes.
Mary starts to tell John 'do you know why Sherlock brought us here?' when at their house. Its because she can tell that they've managed to put something in their past and move on.
Mycroft's mention of the other one, implying the torture he put James through.
It will be the senior Moriaty returning.
Ventilaator
Banned
Wait, am I reading this wrong, or do you think I had a problem with those things? I said that all of those things could have been there in an incredibly stupid way, but they were not. That's a good thing.
VanquishUK
Member
If it isn't actually Moriarty, BBC better prepare for a shit storm. People won't take it well.
My insane theory:
People will see new Moriarty scenes. But he won't be alive. Instead, it will be someone using Moriarty as a sort of virtual puppet, using info from all his television appearances as an actor to create the thing. He'll live solely on television and computer and tablet screens, and there will be an even greater villain behind it all.
But for the sake of fun, it will still basically be Moriarty and the audience will pretend he is. That way we'll get new Moriarty without cheapening his real death. Everyone wins. (or something.)
But for the sake of fun, it will still basically be Moriarty and the audience will pretend he is. That way we'll get new Moriarty without cheapening his real death. Everyone wins. (or something.)
So, thinking about it, I think Sherlock outsmarted Magnussen. He established in the canteen that Magnussen had a terrific memory, so all he needed to find out out was whether he kept records of his blackmail material or not. He knows in advance that John was packing a gun, so if it was established that everything was stored in Magnussen's head, all he needed to do was kill him and the threat would be eliminated. And that's what it happened. The initial plan, the one that the audience is aware of through Magnussen, was a thoroughly bad one if you think about it, and with Magnussen always thinking that all Englishmen are gentlemen, he didn't expect to be straight out killed by Holmes. The only plot hole is that Magnussen's security was conventiently absent.
Don't know if I'll consider a plan where Sherlock is forced to kill a man as Sherlock outsmarting him.
It's effective and accomplishes his goal. He protected Mary and by extension John. The only other solution was to find a way to imprison Magnussen in a high security prison so that he couldn't talk to anyone, but considering the extent of Magnussen's machinations, I doubt Sherlock could do that. Killing him was the only option available.
Princess Carl
Member
I agree with you.
cartoon_soldier
Member
By that time CAM believed he had their pressure points and nothing could be done to him.
Although, I don't think Sherlock outsmarted CAM.
Dirtyshubb
Member
We are talking about a man who has enough dirt on people to basically control the western world, a man that the government wont even touch because it would be too much trouble to take him out, plus we have a man who is considered a genius who hides all his dirt well enough.
Sherlock knew that CAM needed to be taken out, not only for the fact that it would benefit the world but in the end also because of what he had on Mary. For Sherlock to get CAM into a position where he valued Sherlocks reputation and abilities so little that he would divulge his great secret of
there actually being no files, just his memory
Now as stated before, the government wouldnt even interfere which means the only way of taking someone out in that situation is for some rogue to do the job himself, thus Sherlock decided to sacrifice himself for the greater good and to protect John in his new life with his wife by killing CAM.
It might not seem the best way for a super detective to solve a case but when there literally is no other way to stop them, and his best friend is not only in danger but his new marriage is too what else could he do?
Still funny, no frisk, goes around telling them everything is in his head, head blows up
Definitely did not outsmarted CAM, it's just a desperate move (which he gets away with, woohoo!).
But wait, if CAM
only had that information in his mental vault, wouldn't it have been pretty easy to flush him out? I mean sure he can publish it and people will believe it at first, but if he actually can never produce physical evidence, it wouldn't take too long before someone starts demanding more than his word, suing him for libel, and from then on his reputation (and therefore his intimidation and leverage power) would start to disappear quickly.
Once he passes for the guy who makes up shit but never have any evidence, he becomes what, a shitty tabloid owner?
Once he passes for the guy who makes up shit but never have any evidence, he becomes what, a shitty tabloid owner?
I read you incorrectly, sorry!
Or he could just blackmail the guy actually holding the evidence.
Wasn't there something about how
if he needs hard copies, he has knowledge and the leverage of how to procure them
That was the question Watson asked that prompted CAM to call him stupid and start flicking him lol. Watch the episode again for CAM's answer, he explains the leverage better than I can
beyond_death
Member
I fucking loved it. I actually liked that Sherlock resulted to just shooting CAM as it speaks to how dangerous the dude was, that Sherlock saw no other way out. I also got hype at Moriarty at the end.
I saw it as a way to fulfill his last vow (har har) at Watson's wedding. I imagine he would've let him live so he could beat him in a "proper way", had it not been for the fact he would most certainly destroy Watson's life in the meantime. Sherlock saw killing CAM as the only way to save Watson's marriage, and didn't hesitate pulling the trigger. He knew he'd either end up in prison or sent to die, but he had to protect Mary and Watson, because that's what he promised them.
Writers could have written in a way for that to happen if they wanted to.
This isn't real life where everything has to be 100% plausible.
I wouldn't really consider any of this "outsmarting" though.
Shooting CAM in the head was the only choice left because CAM was too brilliant a foe with his photographic memory. It was pure desperation from Sherlock because it was his only choice left, he had lost the battle of minds and only had force left, nothing clever about it. He pretty much did what Mary was going to do to CAM earlier in the ep anyways.
That backup plan that would have failed too if CAM just had one guard frisk them on the way in.
I don't really see this as a victory for Sherlock (unless he really does get off scot free at the end). It's good for the show and makes it more interesting when he doesn't win all the time.
But then people would be complaining about how the writers wrote around actually killing him and how unrealistic their solution was
Killing him works much better. It shows how far Sherlock is willing to go for his friends. I'm sure he didn't find it satisfying. It's just what had to be done.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
If you think about it, Sherlock did outsmart Charles Augustus Magnusson. He got him to reveal where Appledore was and destroyed it. He also rid the world of a horrible man and got off scot-free. Sometimes the simplest plans are the best.
Plus we know from the previous episode (who is the best man you know?) that Sherlock believes murders can be counterbalanced by other good deeds, so it is not a stretch to say that this murder couldn't itself be the best course of action.
EDIT: Also, at the start Magnusson says 'I have an excellent memory'. No kidding.
Plus we know from the previous episode (who is the best man you know?) that Sherlock believes murders can be counterbalanced by other good deeds, so it is not a stretch to say that this murder couldn't itself be the best course of action.
EDIT: Also, at the start Magnusson says 'I have an excellent memory'. No kidding.
He hesitated. He hesitated quite a bit.
APZonerunner
Member
I'm curious - how many of you Sherlock fans have watched Moffat's 'Jekyll'? It's very much the show that was the template for Sherlock in terms of updating a literary/TV classic, and in some ways I actually prefer it to Sherlock. Worth a look for those who haven't. Gatiss is in it as well.
i generally find online fan communities baffling but this made me guffaw
https://twitter.com/_Amy_Woodward/status/422499715662770177/photo/1
(from: http://www.buzzfeed.com/catesevilla/how-the-finale-of-sherlock-series-three-broke-twitter-emotio)
https://twitter.com/_Amy_Woodward/status/422499715662770177/photo/1
(from: http://www.buzzfeed.com/catesevilla/how-the-finale-of-sherlock-series-three-broke-twitter-emotio)
PhoncipleBone
Banned
I enjoyed Jekyll, but didn't love it. It was awesome seeing Denis "Wedge Antilles" Lawson in a meatier role though.
And the opening few minutes of the final episode
where we see just how badass that one soldier is, and then he meets Mr. Hyde
My favorite of Moffat's shows outside of Sherlock and Who has to be Coupling. Absolutely hilarious.
Prophet Steve
Member
I really enjoyed it until the last part, but most people do not seem to be very positive about it.
I really enjoyed it, too. Was sad it didn't get a second season.