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Sherlock Series 3 |OT| - THE Source for Fiction’s Cheekbone Fetish

Enosh

Enosh

Member
this is all an elaborate hoax and the real episode is next week right? right?

because the main villain being killed by Sherlock in this way is the stupidest thing I've seen on this show
a villain who was being hyped up in first third as being so security conscious he has his own lift and key card, his personal body guards etc not bothered to fucking check the pockets of Watson is just beyond stupid

and don't give the "he underestimated Sherlock" bullshit, it's not him doing the basic security checks it's his goons, so his opinion of Sherlock has fuck all to do with basic security procedures

edit: sorry we need to spoiler tag aired stuff now? why is every posting in spoilers :p
 
P

PhoncipleBone

Banned
It already aired in its home country, so we shouldn't have to spoiler tag. Otherwise this entire thread would be a giant black bar until the end of the month.

Only thing that should be black barred from now on is stuff from promos and casting news for series 4, and we know that is a long ways off. Speculation based on what has already aired should not be black barred because it is simply that: speculation.
 
B

bigboss370

Member
Overall thought it was a weak season with some strong moments. Actually thought the villain was pretty weak too...

Excited for Moriarty's return!

Greyface said:
Spoilers:

I call dibs on the obvious conspiracy theory that Moriaty is really dead and Sherlock is actually behind the conveniently timed video stunt which saved himself from embarking on a deadly assignment. (Sherlock did infiltrate Moriaty's network afterall and we've already seen Sherlock pull off a similar stunt sending a mass message to cellphones)
Click to expand...

I like that theory.

Feran said:
Pretty good ep, wish we could have seen more of CAM though. Really creepy dude. I do agree the ending was a bit of a let down, where they were building all this up and then it just gets waved away. Reminded me of Korra S1 finale haha.

I made a bit of fanart again here!
Click to expand...

well damn, that art is freaking amazing. It is now my background wallpaper :D

faceless007 said:
The pacing felt really weird. Thought things were coming to a climax with the Mary reveal, then it's Christmas and then we're back to CAM suddenly. Even for an hour and a half it felt like this episode tried to do too damn much.

Still, almost everything about the Mary reveal--mind palace, Leinster gardens (nod to Lauriston Gardens?), confession back at Baker Street was phenomenal. The scene when they get back to the flat and John blows up was the most intense of the whole episode for me.

CAM was a fantastic villain and I'm disappointed they killed him so soon, but then it seemed like an obvious solution if everything that makes him dangerous is stored in his head. You'd think he would have planned for that.

Something I didn't get--after he revealed his mind palace he said something like "You two will be arrested for trying to sell state secrets to me." Why would he think that would happen? He knew about the plan between Sherlock and Mycroft already, and Mycroft would never believe that.

Oh, and not really up for more Moriarty. He was good but he served his purpose.
Click to expand...

yeah I don't get that either...
 
D

Demon Ice

Banned
bearythebear said:
Ending was weak. Sherlock usually beats the villain more cleverly than just shooting them in the head...
Click to expand...

People seem to be missing the point of the episode title.

His Last Vow.

Sherlock vowed to keep Mary and John safe.
As long as CAM was alive, that could not be accomplished, because CAM has incriminating information against Mary.

Sherlock did not immediately jump to killing CAM because he thought CAM kept physical copies of the incriminating information, but once it was revealed that it was all in CAM's mind palace he really had no other choice.

I guess we're spoiler tagging stuff now?
 
T

TheKaeptain

Banned
bigboss370 said:
yeah I don't get that either...
Click to expand...

He controlled the media. Control the media control the view of those that read it. He also had the resources to frame Sherlock because all the politicians were in his pocket.



About Sherlock being dumber than Mycroft. I think everyone is looking at it wrong.

Mycroft is like a roided bodybuilder than works for mass. Sherlock is a bodybuilder that works for functionality.
 
N

Napalm_Frank

Member
What I hope doesn't happen:

Moriarty is alive

What I hope does happen:

Moriarty is dead but he is pulling the strings from the grave and appears via videotapes. Could make for an excellent first episode for S4 and then bury the character for good.

What I think happens:

It was just Sherlock (or hell, maybe even Mycroft?)
 
F

Finalow

Member
bigboss370 said:
yeah I don't get that either...
Click to expand...
well I think
that even with Mycroft on Sherlock's side they couldn't have done much since he had nothing there. then yes, he could have made those 2 arrested after that, not directly by Mycroft.

Enosh said:
this is all an elaborate hoax and the real episode is next week right? right?

because the main villain being killed by Sherlock in this way is the stupidest thing I've seen on this show
a villain who was being hyped up in first third as being so security conscious he has his own lift and key card, his personal body guards etc not bothered to fucking check the pockets of Watson is just beyond stupid

and don't give the "he underestimated Sherlock" bullshit, it's not him doing the basic security checks it's his goons, so his opinion of Sherlock has fuck all to do with basic security procedures

edit: sorry we need to spoiler tag aired stuff now? why is every posting in spoilers :p
Click to expand...
uhm, I don't agree.
he didn't check or anything because 1. he already knew their plan, he thought he had them. 2 he never could have tought that Sherlock was going to shoot him, he probably thought that he was confident with his plan. so yeah, in a way, he underestimated him.
That first scene of searching them, well, I guess it was mostly done for laughing at the fact that Watson had those weapons.

he actually won against Sherlock in the "intellectual" fight, that's why it ended like that. Sherlock was, of course, prepared, unlike CAM.
I loved it, everything of it. great episode.

there are some things that probably could have been explained better (or explained at all), mostly I didn't understand (if it's my fault) how the fuck
Mary gets into his office, "Janine let her in" doesn't make sense.
also, I'd have liked more background and info about CAM.

about the ending,
I think we can say that he can't be back. the theory that it could be Sherlock's plan
it's pretty legit.
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
Dennis said:
Could be Mycroft - alone or together with Sherlock - setting that up to get Sherlock a pardon for murder - "Britain needs Sherlock to take on Moriarty"
Click to expand...

What? And how would they themselves out of that, exactly?

They'd need some 9/11-inside-job level bullshit.
 
T

TheKaeptain

Banned
Guys, what's with the spoiler bars.



Oh and the bad guy did have a place where he keeps the physical evidence.


He said something along the lines of: "I'll send for it"
 
C

colt92

Neo Member
I don't know why everyone is spoiler tagging about the episode, and since the OP says that an aired episoded is fair game, I don't think we should at all.

About "Sherlock not being Sherlock", I don't think that's accurate. I'd say that Sherlock is not being Sherlock towards John and Mary. In fact, in this very episode Sherlock acts totally like the Sherlock of S1 and S2 in two moments.
First, when Molly does the drug screening. His reaction towards her is to avoid her question and remark that she is no longer engaged.
Second, the whole fake relationship that Sherlock had built with Janine. When Sherlock and John are on the elevator on the way to CAM's office, Sherlock clearly states that he is going to tell Janine the truth in a pretty straightforward way.
 
R

Rodney McKay

Member
Really liked this episode. Didn't think the badguy was perfect, but he was satisfactorily creepy and threatening. One thing I didn't really understand was the thing with his glasses:
when Sherlock took the glasses and it turned out they WEREN'T Google Glasses, I actually assumed he had a fake robot eye or a contact lens. I still thought that after he described his mind palace (I thought he might have been lying) so when Sherlock killed him I thought there was someone behind the scenes who REALLY had all that info.



I was never a fan of this show's Moriarty character (or Doctor Who's Master, for pretty much all the same reasons), so I'm not overly thrilled at the possibility of his return. Both were just too manic for my liking. I prefer arch-nemesis character to be give off an air of being threatening, as apposed to being over the top to the point of goofiness.

Not to say I'm surprised, his death last season felt kinda... off to me. IMO it could still go either way about him being dead for realz or not. I'm sure there's some reason they could give for how he faked his own death (fake brain splatter, twin brother, etc.), but I'd still like to believe he's down for good.
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
If you haven't seen it yet, more fool you for coming in here. I'll spoiler tag when appropriate, but this isn't one of those times.

Again, it wasn't "show offy" Sherlock time. It was "protect John at all costs, whatever the measure" time. As long as Magnussen was alive, even if he somehow managed to get incarcerated or otherwise subdued, Mary and John (and in utero Shirley Watson, any other name I shall not accept) would never be safe. Especially if Sherlock was imprisoned. There was never that danger with Moriarty, because he was fixated upon Sherlock. Remember, when Moriarty put John in the firing line, Sherlock threatened to torture him (more or less).

A clever way to bring Moriarty back would be the beyond-the-grave thing. It's exactly what a fiendishly clever villain would do, find a way to fuck over his nemesis from beyond the grave. Time-sensitive booby-trapped Baker Street? Who knows. But it'd be a good first episode to show that Moriarty, or at least what Moriarty represents, will never die. As long as Sherlock continues to pull himself up above those his inferior, he will inevitably come up against his equal or better. And he will have to do things he would not usually consider, such as shooting a man point blank in the head.
 
S

Shahadan

Member
I laughed really hard at Mary being an assassin. They picked the least convincing actress to play one. She looked so ridiculous in her criminal outfit. Maybe she kills her victims with laughter.
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
TheKaeptain said:
I'm thinking the person behind the ending is this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Moran
Click to expand...

He was the guy behind the Guy Fawkes bombings in Empty Hearse, or a "Colonel Moran" was anyway. Might rule him out.
Shahadan said:
I laughed really hard at Mary being an assassin. They picked the least convincing actress to play one. She looked so ridiculous in her criminal outfit. Maybe she kills her victims with laughter.
Click to expand...

That is what I believe they call the point. She managed to deceive Sherlock remember.
 
J

Joni

Member
Also, a shout-out to Benedict Cumberbatch's parents for their awesome job as the Holmes parents. You ask your son to visit and you get an entire camera crew as a present.

colt92 said:
About "Sherlock not being Sherlock", I don't think that's accurate. I'd say that Sherlock is not being Sherlock towards John and Mary. In fact, in this very episode Sherlock acts totally like the Sherlock of S1 and S2 in two moments..
Click to expand...
John is just that important to Sherlock, who never had a human connection before. Sherlock without Watson is like Mycroft: spending that first Christmas alone. Sherlock with Watson has evolved so much he is willing to spend it with his parents. The tearjerker page at the TV Tropes Wiki goes really in-depth on how broken Sherlock and Watson are at the very start of the show, and you really see them evolve quickly. Sherlock will literally go through fire for Watson.

TheKaeptain said:
Oh and the bad guy did have a place where he keeps the physical evidence. He said something along the lines of: "I'll send for it"
Click to expand...
There is no physical place. He can just blackmail the holder of the physical evidence to get it.

Shahadan said:
I laughed really hard at Mary being an assassin. They picked the least convincing actress to play one. She looked so ridiculous in her criminal outfit. Maybe she kills her victims with laughter.
Click to expand...
Well, they did pick the best actress to play someone Martin Freeman would fall for though.
 
V

vgJames

Banned
In regard to his last vow all he's done is eliminate the threat of Magnussen. There is still documents in the wild of Mary's past, hell the fact that she has such a past means she'll always be in shakey territory.

Just eliminating Magnussen doesn't neatly clean up Mary's past.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
vgJames said:
In regard to his last vow all he's done is eliminate the threat of Magnussen. There is still documents in the wild of Mary's past, hell the fact that she has such a past means she'll always be in shakey territory.

Just eliminating Magnussen doesn't neatly clean up Mary's past.
Click to expand...

No, but how many other people will have the balls to even try. Look what Mary did to CAM and he had armed guards and an insane security system. You don't mess with someone like Mary unless you need to.
 
S

Shahadan

Member
MasterBalls said:
That is what I believe they call the point. She managed to deceive Sherlock remember.
Click to expand...

No I mean, a good actress would have been convincing or at least look menacing at the right moment, show she is a good liar. She was just laughable.
You can't just throw anybody and describe her as a secret assassin. There was no substance. Even if Mrs Hudson of all people would have been revealed as a secret spy she would have done a better job.
 
Z

Zeppu

Member
vgJames said:
In regard to his last vow all he's done is eliminate the threat of Magnussen. There is still documents in the wild of Mary's past, hell the fact that she has such a past means she'll always be in shakey territory.

Just eliminating Magnussen doesn't neatly clean up Mary's past.
Click to expand...

The point is that CAM knew who Mary was. Lots of people may know about Mary's past but they don't know where Mary is or what she's doing. He only got to Mary as a way to get to Mycroft, via John and Sherlock.
 
D

Deadly

Member
faceless007 said:
Something I didn't get--after he revealed his mind palace he said something like "You two will be arrested for trying to sell state secrets to me." Why would he think that would happen? He knew about the plan between Sherlock and Mycroft already, and Mycroft would never believe that.
Click to expand...
I don't think Mycroft was in on it. Even though Mycroft wouldn't believe it, evidence would show otherwise.
 
S

Secret Fawful

Member
I hope
Moriarty is alive
. I don't care if they go for the stupid, nonsensical plot anymore since they kind of threw that out the window with this season. Just give me whatever is the most entertaining.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Very, very nice. Undoubtedly had the shine taken off it for me by the fact that I GOT SPOILED ABOUT MARY SHOOTING SHERLOCK IN THE CHEST, but still loved it.

RANKINGS:
The Sign of Three
The Reichenbach Fall
A Scandal in Belgravia
His Last Vow
A Study in Pink
The Great Game
The Empty Hearse
The Hounds of Baskerville
The Blind Banker
 
F

Famassu

Member
Why do people think Sherlock got off without any consequences? I'm sure he'll have to deal with what he has done. I mean, wasn't he to be sent on some suicide mission, so he wasn't getting off the hook even if he wasn't called back? And even if he was called back, why do you people assume that there will be no backlash? He's just there to get rid of one of the greatest criminal masterminds & lunatics in the world, who seems to be back (probably isn't...).
 
B

bigboss370

Member
Never bought the villain's "villain-ness". Didn't think he was creepy or dangerous like other people....he didn't really do anything. Maybe its the fact that his whole leverage/blackmail thing is maintained without any physical or real records, that's just too absurd for me.
 
A

AkuMifune

Banned
Sherlock created the looping Moriarty .gif as a contingency in case they sent him away for killing CAM. It was the only clever thing he did the whole episode and I'm glad it paid off. ;)
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
bigboss370 said:
Never bought the villain's "villain-ness". Didn't think he was creepy or dangerous like other people....he didn't really do anything. Maybe its the fact that his whole leverage/blackmail thing is maintained without any physical or real records, that's just too absurd for me.
Click to expand...

Being poked in the eye is pretty painful.
 
P

Prompto

Banned
My rankings:
The Reichenbach Fall
The Sign of Three
A Scandal in Belgravia
A Study in Pink
His Last Vow
The Empty Hearse
The Great Game
The Hounds Of Baskerville
The Blind Banker

And I've enjoyed pretty much every episode so it's not like I think The Blind Banker is terrible.
 
T

TrueBlue

Member
Shahadan said:
No I mean, a good actress would have been convincing or at least look menacing at the right moment, show she is a good liar. She was just laughable.
You can't just throw anybody and describe her as a secret assassin. There was no substance. Even if Mrs Hudson of all people would have been revealed as a secret spy she would have done a better job.
Click to expand...

...why would she have to show that she is a good liar when she's just been caught? She's obviously a good enough liar to have come that far. Besides, there's no definition for what qualifies as a secret assassin. They don't have to look menacing.
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
The Reichenbach Fall is pretty much retroactively a non-episode for me now. Might as well re-title it "Sherlock knew, Moriarty's an idiot, and you know nothing John Watson".
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
bigboss370 said:
Never bought the villain's "villain-ness". Didn't think he was creepy or dangerous like other people....he didn't really do anything. Maybe its the fact that his whole leverage/blackmail thing is maintained without any physical or real records, that's just too absurd for me.
Click to expand...

It is not really without physical records... they are found by his network of news men and he remembers them. The records don't matter when the blackmailer owns large portions of the media. He would destroy you or find the way to have it done.

Also, how on earth was he not creepy? Did you watch the show?! He was vile.

EDIT: Assassins aren't superheroes. They just kill people, usually covertly. Sometimes the best disguise is to look innocuous, like a pregnant woman.
 
A

AkuMifune

Banned
JonStark said:
What are your deductions ?
Click to expand...

From your username I surmise an appreciation for Western RPG's, but your avatar clearly displays a love of Japanese games. It would be difficult to deduce whether you like Skyrim or P4G more from these two, but as you are in the Sherlock thread and therefore have good taste, you must clearly like P4G more.

I got nothing.
 
B

bigboss370

Member
vcassano1 said:
It is not really without physical records... they are found by his network of news men and he remembers them. The records don't matter when the blackmailer owns large portions of the media. He would destroy you or find the way to have it done.

Also, how on earth was he not creepy? Did you watch the show?! He was vile.
Click to expand...

I still have a hard time buying he got access to an ex CIA agent's file though...like where or how would he have leverage to get that? I thought Mycroft said he doesn't affect the real important people...


and yeah I didn't think he was creepy...I believe its because there really wasn't enough time to build his character, so some things looked forced. Oh nooo he pissed in the fireplace? How viiile....
 
F

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
bigboss370 said:
I still have a hard time buying he got access to an ex CIA agent's file though...like where or how would he have leverage to get that? I thought Mycroft said he doesn't affect the real important people...
Click to expand...

Edit: Nevermind. Reread your statement.
I'm sure there's plenty of bureaucracy within the CIA that CAM would be able to get a hold of Mary's files. It's not like the Director of the CIA would even know who she is.
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
bigboss370 said:
I still have a hard time buying he got access to an ex CIA agent's file though...like where or how would he have leverage to get that? I thought Mycroft said he doesn't affect the real important people...


and yeah I didn't think he was creepy...I believe its because there really wasn't enough time to build his character, so some things looked forced. Oh nooo he pissed in the fireplace? How viiile....
Click to expand...

Him "torturing" Janine is pretty vile.
 
M

mclem

Member
Finalow said:
there are some things that probably could have been explained better (or explained at all), mostly I didn't understand (if it's my fault) how the fuck
Mary gets into his office, "Janine let her in" doesn't make sense.
also, I'd have liked more background and info about CAM.
Click to expand...

I'm happy to write that off as
Secret Assassin Magic
.

She's ditched a life where it was her job to get into sealed places and kill people. So... she got into a sealed place to kill someone. I think there's sufficient 'how' implicit in that.
 
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