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[Wowfunhappy]

Again, it wasn't "show offy" Sherlock time. It was "protect John at all costs, whatever the measure" time. As long as Magnussen was alive, even if he somehow managed to get incarcerated or otherwise subdued, Mary and John (and in utero Shirley Watson, any other name I shall not accept) would never be safe.

I understand why Sherlock did it within the context of the show, but from a story-writing perspective, it just makes for a really unsatisfying conclusion.

There was no buildup. No mystery. Sherlock just took out his gun and went boom.

Maybe if they had presented it better...

Maybe if there had been another mind palace scene, with Sherlock trying to think of a plan to protect John. Magnussen has information that can incarcerate Mary / "So destroy the document" / But it's in his mind, how can I erase a memory? / "All things can be erased Sherlock." / *Sherlock touches the gun in his pocket* Yes, but... / (John Watson's voice) "Of course you're showing off, that's all you ever do!" / "Sherlock, sometimes the best solution is—"

"The simplest one" Sherlock says allowed, as he fires the gun.

Or something like that. Something that builds up to the final moment and makes it feel meaningful.

 

[jackdoe]

One thing I liked about the finale was Sherlock convincing Watson to accept the humiliation. This pretty much convinced CAM that he had utterly won which allowed Sherlock to 100% verify that all the documents were in his head before shooting him.

 

[User 100115]

The look on Sherlock's face while CAM was flicking John was 100% pure murder. It was amazing.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I more felt for John. Fantastic performances from Freeman in this series, really.

 

[Zeppu]

Poor Watson. He really has been through a lot.

 

[Exterminieren]

How can people say that CAM wasn't evil, or not understand why Sherlock shot him?

Even if you ignore the sword of Damocles he had over John's entire life, Magnussen caused his previous client's husband to commit suicide. Sherlock was in deep, even before the big Mary revelation.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Definitely not enough Lestrade in this episode.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Definitely not enough Lestrade in this episode.

I smell spin-off with minor Sherlock characters to fill the gap whilst the Hollywood duo are off...

 

[Veelk]

I understand why Sherlock did it within the context of the show, but from a story-writing perspective, it just makes for a really unsatisfying conclusion.

There was no buildup. No mystery. Sherlock just took out his gun and went boom.

Maybe if they had presented it better...

Maybe if there had been another mind palace scene, with Sherlock trying to think of a plan to protect John. Magnussen has information that can incarcerate Mary / "So destroy the document" / But it's in his mind, how can I erase a memory? / "All things can be erased Sherlock." / *Sherlock touches the gun in his pocket* Yes, but... / (John Watson's voice) "Of course you're showing off, that's all you ever do!" / "Sherlock, sometimes the best solution is—"

"The simplest one" Sherlock says allowed, as he fires the gun.

Or something like that. Something that builds up to the final moment and makes it feel meaningful.

That is....basically what happened, they just didn't make it explicit. Show, don't tell.

 

[Finalow]

meh, I think that Mary is a

Spoiler

pretty believable killer. after all there were clues, she's a new character from this season and we didn't know much of her past or her life.

I'm happy to write that off as

Spoiler

Secret Assassin Magic

.

Spoiler

She's ditched a life where it was her job to get into sealed places and kill people. So... she got into a sealed place to kill someone. I think there's sufficient 'how' implicit in that.

sure but that was crappy nonetheless. I mean, they probably couldn't come up with something better since they didn't even bother to explain how she did it.
also,

Spoiler

that office was supposed to be super high security, that's how it was presented. that's also why Sherlock didn't find a better way to enter, he planned that for a long time as you can see from all of that girlfriend act.

anyway it's just a stupid minor thing, I enjoyed the episode quite a lot. the whole season? Not that much.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Best season as a whole I reckon. Series 2 is quite weak for me now they retroactively neutered Moriarty.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Magnussen mentioned Janine making weir noises(when getting flicked in the eye). The implication being she was pressured. Am I assuming correctly?


Really I'm mostly curious because I'd like to see more Janine, she's hot.

 

[Auron_Kale]

Definitely not enough Lestrade in this episode.

I smell spin-off with minor Sherlock characters to fill the gap whilst the Hollywood duo are off...

Lol.

Well, in the commentaries (they seem to allude to it in all of them), Moffat and Gatiss did say that they cast Rupert Graves specifically because he fills the role that would be the 'other side' of the Sherlock coin. As in, in Sherlock we specifically see the adventure through Watson & Sherlock's eyes but on the other side of the coin, you'd see Lestrade taking care of not only the police reports on their cases but just everything else in general that the Met has to deal with (assuming it's his division of Homicide & Serious Crimes).

That said, we did get a hint of Lestrade the show in the opening of TSOT (after all, the OST track is literally called Lestrade - The Movie) so... I'm all for the cop buddy antics with him and Donovan, with Anderson & his wife as the forensics team.

Off-topic, but had a bit of fun with my cousin as I have the Sherlock cast on my iphone as my wallpaper. Decided to ask her opinion on how old Rupert Graves was, as she was pretty good at getting Ben and Martin's ages, and she (like my friend) guessed 40. Blew her mind when I told her that he's 50 as she basically said: "Shut up. No way, really?!"

Even on the show, I don't think they've ever alluded to how old Lestrade is suppose to be but judging from the reactions of many people, they could easily say he's as old as John.

 

[TheGoddamn]

One thing I didn't really understand was the thing with his glasses: when Sherlock took the glasses and it turned out they WEREN'T Google Glasses, I actually assumed he had a fake robot eye or a contact lens.

I was glad that his glasses weren't really Google Glass. Classic misdirection! Although the robot eye thing-- when the show shows that something isn't high-tech and farfetched, why would you jump to a conclusion that's more high-tech and farfetched? It's odd that people would think that, especially in the context of this show.

Sherlock's not the only one with "Sherlock vision".

That is....basically what happened, they just didn't make it explicit. Show, don't tell.

And they took the time throughout the third series to (sometimes painfully) explain how Sherlock thinks, so that they wouldn't have to during the climactic decision. He was standing dead still after CAM showed them the vault, and verbally confirmed that the vault was in only one place.

 

[SKINNER!]

Episode 3 is clearly the best in the series. Villain was sinister as fuck. Did however see the "It was Watson that was on the wheelchair and not Sherlock" twist from a mile away. Not entirely sure if it was deliberate or sloppy writing. Meh, merely nitpicking. So delighted to see Moriarty is back.

 

[User 100115]

Episode 3 is clearly the best in the series. Villain was sinister as fuck. Did however see the "It was Watson that was on the wheelchair and not Sherlock" twist from a mile away. Not entirely sure if it was deliberate or sloppy writing. Meh, merely nitpicking. So delighted to see Moriarty is back.

I think that was a way to trick people who've read the books. We all immediately pegged it as a dummy (at least I did) and were surprised when it turned out to be John

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I think that was a way to trick people who've read the books. We all immediately pegged it as a dummy (at least I did) and were surprised when it turned out to be John

Personally I felt everything was telegraphed from a mile away. I guessed all the big plot spins way before the reveal and felt a little sad when they revealed happened because I was right. Predictable moffat from Doctor Who seemed to be in full force this time around.

That said I enjoyed the episode.

Has the "you know what happened to the other one" comment from mycroft been discussed at all? Was he referring to Sherrinford?

 

[bearythebear]

I understand why Sherlock did it within the context of the show, but from a story-writing perspective, it just makes for a really unsatisfying conclusion.

There was no buildup. No mystery. Sherlock just took out his gun and went boom.

Maybe if they had presented it better...

Maybe if there had been another mind palace scene, with Sherlock trying to think of a plan to protect John. Magnussen has information that can incarcerate Mary / "So destroy the document" / But it's in his mind, how can I erase a memory? / "All things can be erased Sherlock." / *Sherlock touches the gun in his pocket* Yes, but... / (John Watson's voice) "Of course you're showing off, that's all you ever do!" / "Sherlock, sometimes the best solution is—"

"The simplest one" Sherlock says allowed, as he fires the gun.

Or something like that. Something that builds up to the final moment and makes it feel meaningful.

That would have made it so much more satisfying. Doesn't even have to be half as long as the Sherlock getting shot Mind Palace scene.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

I think that was a way to trick people who've read the books. We all immediately pegged it as a dummy (at least I did) and were surprised when it turned out to be John

Agreed. They're toying with folks who have read the books, to still keep it surprising and interesting for them. It's refreshing.

 

[Taruranto]

Because John would have automatically been a suspect. Sherlock being shot would give him motive. He wouldn't be convicted or anything, since there weren't two guns, but being a suspect is enough.

That's exactly what she did... both Sherlock and John would have been implemented

I'm afraid I'm not following. :S I thought John would have been a suspect if both Sherlock and Magnussen would have been dead. No one to testify for him=John gets screwed.

But by just incapacitating Sherlock (which is what she did just... in a very debatable way) he could have testify for John later. Or not?

 

[Konka]

I think that was a way to trick people who've read the books. We all immediately pegged it as a dummy (at least I did) and were surprised when it turned out to be John

Yep.

 

[nOoblet16]

Wait people actually thought he was wearing tech glasses?
I knew it was just graphics because it seemed similar to how Sherlock visualises stuff. Beside it'd be absurd to have that kind of technology on this show, which is why that TV screen bugged me out.

I had a friend act as an extra in the meeting scene of this episode at the beginning, wish he had a speaking part.

 

[Auron_Kale]

I think that was a way to trick people who've read the books. We all immediately pegged it as a dummy (at least I did) and were surprised when it turned out to be John

I actually thought it was possibly John at first but due to the stillness, I started thinking it was a dummy. Turns out my gut instinct was right though I was glad that they had kept me guessing. And yes, I have read the books but it's been ages since I had read them last.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Wait people actually thought he was wearing glasses?
I knew it was just graphics because it seemed similar to how Sherlock visualises stuff.

The implication was certainly google glasses. Sherlock even talks about it saying flashdrive or 4g? He believes the "dead eyes" is him reading the glasses when in fact it was him accessing his mind palace. It was clear from the second visit to "appledor" that it was a mind palace. The same exact camera and sorting angles screamed it. The lack of any tech behind the glasses confirmed it. It's a shame because it feels like that was the real big plot twist.

 

[jackdoe]

Wait people actually thought he was wearing tech glasses?
I knew it was just graphics because it seemed similar to how Sherlock visualises stuff. Beside it'd be absurd to have that kind of technology on this show, which is why that TV screen bugged me out.

I'm with you on this one. I completely thought that it was all in his head from the start as well. So I was more surprised that Sherlock thought it was something like Google Glasses.

 

[mclem]

sure but that was crappy nonetheless. I mean, they probably couldn't come up with something better since they didn't even bother to explain how she did it.
also,

Spoiler

that office was supposed to be super high security, that's how it was presented. that's also why Sherlock didn't find a better way to enter, he planned that for a long time as you can see from all of that girlfriend act.

On which note, from the original canon,

Spoiler

How did the person who shot Milverton *there* get in?

 

[mclem]

Episode 3 is clearly the best in the series. Villain was sinister as fuck. Did however see the "It was Watson that was on the wheelchair and not Sherlock" twist from a mile away. Not entirely sure if it was deliberate or sloppy writing. Meh, merely nitpicking. So delighted to see Moriarty is back.

I guessed it wasn't Sherlock, but just thought it was a dummy - because that's what happened in The Empty House. As a twist on how things took place in The Empty House, it's excellent.

In The Empty House:

Spoiler

* Sherlock believes that Moran will attack the dummy
* Moran has the opportunity to shoot what he believes is a vulnerable Holmes, and does so.
* The trick is revealed; Moran is apprehended (by the bullet embedded in the dummy)

In His Last Vow:

Spoiler

* Sherlock believes that Mary is not inherently evil but wants to prove it, and at the same time reveal the truth to Watson.
* Mary has the opportunity to shoot what she believes is a vulnerable Holmes, and does not do so; instead shooting a coin out of the air.
* The trick is revealed; Mary reveals all, but Sherlock (and later Watson) know that she's not simply a brutal killer.

 

[nOoblet16]

The implication was certainly google glasses. Sherlock even talks about it saying flashdrive or 4g? He believes the "dead eyes" is him reading the glasses when in fact it was him accessing his mind palace. It was clear from the second visit to "appledor" that it was a mind palace. The same exact camera and sorting angles screamed it. The lack of any tech behind the glasses confirmed it. It's a shame because it feels like that was the real big plot twist.

I know that it was implied and it was why Sherlock asked it, but I was surprised to see that they brought it up. It clearly felt like a visualisation from the start, even the tech virgins would notice that if they have been watching the show since it frequently uses those sort of visualisations.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I know that it was implied and it was why Sherlock asked it, but I was surprised to see that they brought it up. It clearly felt like a visualisation from the start, even the tech virgins would notice that if they have been watching the show since it frequently uses those sort of visualisations.

I dunno, I bought the google glass tech. I think people are aware of it in the real world and some leeway can be taken with fiction. That said It wouldn't be impossible for something like that to exist today just ridiculously hard.

Google Glass with Camera streaming to a face database which cross references available records. I mean It would be something a billionaire could prototype granted with a bigger form factor. I don't think any other visualizations in the show have been shown in that way it was very "code" looking.

 

[pigeon]

On which note, from the original canon,

Spoiler

How did the person who shot Milverton *there* get in?

Spoiler

She posed as a servant and made an appointment to sell him some blackmail information.

 

[nOoblet16]

I dunno, I bought the google glass tech. I think people are aware of it in the real world and some leeway can be taken with fiction. That said It wouldn't be impossible for something like that to exist today just ridiculously hard.

Google Glass with Camera streaming to a face database which cross references available records. I mean It would be something a billionaire could prototype granted with a bigger form factor. I don't think any other visualizations in the show have been shown in that way it was very "code" looking.

xcept google glass requires a big battery which they never show in images. Those glasses were too thin, and almost frameless so I never bought that implication lol

 

[StalkerUKCG]

xcept google glass requires a big battery which they never show in images. Those glasses were too thin, and almost frameless so I never bought that implication lol

Again, Fiction and Billionaire power. Good for you that you never bought it but I know people that did. It was way less telegraphed than any of the other big reveals and implied the direct opposite a few times.

 

[LuffyZoro]

Tumblr fandom

Spoiler

I kid, Fiction

 

[Veelk]

And they took the time throughout the third series to (sometimes painfully) explain how Sherlock thinks, so that they wouldn't have to during the climactic decision. He was standing dead still after CAM showed them the vault, and verbally confirmed that the vault was in only one place.

With this dramatic moment, you can read what is happening on Sherlocks face. He had 3 possible ways of destroying Appledore: 1. Destory the glasses. Once he realized they were ordinary spectacles, that was out. So he was betting on 2. Expose the vaults. But when he realized those didn't exist, he was left with 3. Kill Magnussen. The reason he hesitated is twofold: 1. He needs to the police to see he was the one who did it so that John wouldn't be complicite and 2. he's...you know...he's murdering another human being. We've known Sherlock's "I have no emotions" thing was bullshit for a long time and while he's perfectly fine with bodies that are already dead, he's always reacted with shock and horror at the killing of another human being, even the ones he deems insignificant (old woman from season 1) or evil (Moriarty). He is not someone who wants to see people die, so killing even Magnussen is something that gives him pause. It took literally him literally being pushed as far up the wall as he could possibly go to get him to that point, and we do not need some expository dialogue saying "I exhausted every other option" like a robot because we can determine what he is thinking just by the fact that we've known this character. That's how you make good writing.

Edit: I misread that post entirely and thought you were disagreeing with me somehow. Nevermind.

 

[Jables Swan]

My rankings:

The Reichenbach Fall
A Scandal in Belgravia
The Sign of Three
A Study in Pink
His Last Vow
The Great Game
The Empty Hearse
The Hounds Of Baskerville
The Blind Banker

 

[Imm0rt4l]

On the other hand, they don't explain a lot either. Off the top of my head, Sherlock knows both Johns and Magnussen's schedule. Why? "I just do.", because there is no reason to waste time explaining a minor detail.

With this dramatic moment, you can read what is happening on Sherlocks face. He had 3 possible ways of destroying Appledore: 1. Destory the glasses. Once he realized they were ordinary spectacles, that was out. So he was betting on 2. Expose the vaults. But when he realized those didn't exist, he was left with 3. Kill Magnussen. The reason he hesitated is twofold: 1. He needs to the police to see he was the one who did it so that John wouldn't be complicite and 2. he's...you know...he's murdering another human being. We've known Sherlock's "I have no emotions" thing was bullshit for a long time and while he's perfectly fine with bodies that are already dead, he's always reacted with shock and horror at the killing of another human being, even the ones he deems insignificant (old woman from season 1) or evil (Moriarty). He is not someone who wants to see people die, so killing even Magnussen is something that gives him pause. It took literally him literally being pushed as far up the wall as he could possibly go to get him to that point, and we do not need some expository dialogue saying "I exhausted every other option" like a robot because we can determine what he is thinking just by the fact that we've known this character. That's how you make good writing.

I assumed that's because Janine, which we found out shortly after Watson asked. Explaining how he knew would have spoiled that little surprise of his relationship being a ruse.

 

[bearythebear]

With this dramatic moment, you can read what is happening on Sherlocks face. He had 3 possible ways of destroying Appledore: 1. Destory the glasses. Once he realized they were ordinary spectacles, that was out. So he was betting on 2. Expose the vaults. But when he realized those didn't exist, he was left with 3. Kill Magnussen. The reason he hesitated is twofold: 1. He needs to the police to see he was the one who did it so that John wouldn't be complicite and 2. he's...you know...he's murdering another human being. We've known Sherlock's "I have no emotions" thing was bullshit for a long time and while he's perfectly fine with bodies that are already dead, he's always reacted with shock and horror at the killing of another human being, even the ones he deems insignificant (old woman from season 1) or evil (Moriarty). He is not someone who wants to see people die, so killing even Magnussen is something that gives him pause. It took literally him literally being pushed as far up the wall as he could possibly go to get him to that point, and we do not need some expository dialogue saying "I exhausted every other option" like a robot because we can determine what he is thinking just by the fact that we've known this character. That's how you make good writing.

Edit: I misread that post entirely and thought you were disagreeing with me somehow. Nevermind.

Sherlock is a very explicit show. Everything from the text popups, to the mind palace scenes, to the flashbacks is meant to show the viewer exactly how Sherlock's mind works. Heck, there's a lengthy sequence of what is going on in his head when he got shot in the episode. Not visualizing what is going on in Sherlock's head when he shoots CAM is a missed opportunity, and the episode ends kinda flat.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Sherlock is a very explicit show. Everything from the text popups, to the mind palace scenes, to the flashbacks is meant to show the viewer exactly how Sherlock's mind works. Heck, there's a lengthy sequence of what is going on in his head when he got shot. Not visualizing what is going on in Sherlock's head when he shoots CAM is a missed opportunity, and is kinda flat.

I assumed he always planned to kill Magnusson, that's why there were no visualizations. No figuring anything out. No pause to be clever moment.

He went there, ready to kill Magnusson. He had John bring the gun, brought a GPS tagged laptop so everyone could see Sherlock was the one to do it. He was just biding his time till he had a public audience.

Plus, while Sherlock probably doesn't wanna kill anyone, Magnusson is a special case. A reptilian slimy thing pretending to be a man who will destroy his friends just because.

 

[Konka]

Sherlock is a very explicit show. Everything from the text popups, to the mind palace scenes, to the flashbacks is meant to show the viewer exactly how Sherlock's mind works. Heck, there's a lengthy sequence of what is going on in his head when he got shot in the episode. Not visualizing what is going on in Sherlock's head when he shoots CAM is a missed opportunity, and the episode ends kinda flat.

I think you're making out to be a much bigger deal than it is. He went there to kill him.

 

[Veelk]

Sherlock is a very explicit show. Everything from the text popups, to the mind palace scenes, to the flashbacks is meant to show the viewer exactly how Sherlock's mind works. Heck, there's a lengthy sequence of what is going on in his head when he got shot in the episode. Not visualizing what is going on in Sherlock's head when he shoots CAM is a missed opportunity, and the episode ends kinda flat.

Those things are explicit because they need to be. Sherlock's mind process is a very complicated thing that virtually nobody would be able to pick up on if not told. Honestly, who the hell would have ever guessed that Sherlock falling back was intentional if they only saw him being shot and falling back like pretty much a normal person. Even if they did guess it, people would consider it reaching at best. Not because it's untrue or out of character, but because they have no basis on which to prove that was what sherlock was thinking as opposed to nothing whatsoever. Without going inside his head, we would basically have no idea what he's thinking whenever he does not or can not say so. The only alternative is assuming that he's some omniscient god that knows everything all the time. Is Sherlock just drinking tea or is drinking that tea going to disable the nuclear device in Mrs. Hudson's lawn? Maybe it is, but who the hell knows if we're not told. And that scene served multiple purposes anyway. It showed how much of an inferiority complex he has against his brother (a vulnerability he never shows in real life), how he makes him feel like a child. Similarly, we see for the first time what appears to be his very first connection, Redbeard. Then we see that even after his death, Moriarty still haunts Sherlock's dreams, which allows us to imagine how he must feel at the news that he's returned. There's probably more with how he represents various categories of knowledge with the people he knows and now respects, but I think I've made my point.

It simply does not follow that just because the show is explicit in some parts (usually those it needs to be explicit about) that it ought to be explicit in all parts. So, with the Magnussen situation, not only was the entire episode building up to it, it took build up from the series as a whole (his reactions to muders he witnesses). While yes, the show is explicit when it needs to be, it can also be subtle and this is one of the ways how. We need sherlock to visualize or explain what we don't know. We don't on what we do know or can figure out.

 

[UrbanRats]

I assumed he always planned to kill Magnusson, that's why there were no visualizations. No figuring anything out. No pause to be clever moment.

He went there, ready to kill Magnusson. He had John bring the gun, brought a GPS tagged laptop so everyone could see Sherlock was the one to do it. He was just biding his time till he had a public audience.

Plus, while Sherlock probably doesn't wanna kill anyone, Magnusson is a special case. A reptilian slimy thing pretending to be a man who will destroy his friends just because.

When Magnusson exits the little white room, there's a clear close up of Sherlock's face where he realizes he has to kill the man.
You see him close his eyes in distress, after Watson asks him if he has a plan.

I believe killing CAM was ONE of his possible plans, but only in that moment he realized he had to do it.

 

[TheGoddamn]

I misread that post entirely and thought you were disagreeing with me somehow. Nevermind.

Nope!

We need sherlock to visualize or explain what we don't know. We don't on what we do know or can figure out.

Yep! Tell when you must, show when you can. Alternately, Sherlock really did go there to kill him. He'd already accounted for the vault being intangible, and that was one possibility. His reaction to the revelation that the vault was a mind palace was him steeling himself for murder.

Edit: URBANRAAAAATS

 

[nomis]

Definitive Uber Power Rankings of the Forever

 

[a secret-boss]

that was disappointing episode.
the whole case is pretty simple complicated by the whole dream sequence which got thrown out when Mary didn't actually shot a vital part.
Complicated by Mary being a spy which I think didn't really bring much. At the end all it did is Mary is safe. Mary could have been kidnap and villain's death would made her safe

Bringing these convoluted scenarios to make it look like a good episode

 

[Showaddy]

That's pretty much mine really expect I'd drop Sign of Three below Great Game. I liked the wedding but no way is it better than Reichenbach.

 

[nomis]

That's pretty much mine really expect I'd drop Sign of Three below Great Game. I liked the wedding but no way is it better than Reichenbach.

The "drunk deductions" stole my heart because as soon as Sherlock took a sip of alcohol I was waiting for it to happen and it didn't disappoint.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Scandal in Belgravia first? You're good people

 

[Fireblend]

IMHO:

Scandal > Reichenbach = His Last Vow > Study in Pink = Sign of Three = The Great Game > Empty Hearse > Hounds > Blind Banker

 

[Auron_Kale]

Definitive Uber Power Rankings of the Forever

I think I'd swap places with TSOT and HLV, but other than that, I agree with this ranking actually.

 

[Tunic]

This show. I can't get enough! The Last Vow was amazing. I am ordering the blurays of Series 1 and 2 right now on Amazon just so I can rematch everything again. Man, I can't get enough! So freakin' good!