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Sherlock Series 3 |OT| - THE Source for Fiction’s Cheekbone Fetish

Jak140

Member
There are very few unrealistic devices in the sherlock world though. Even the fictional elements mostly have real life basis. Almost all the logic he presents in the show would have equal application if the props were real objects.



The answer to that is very simple: She would be giving up control. She would be placing herself in Sherlock's mercy, to damn or save her as he pleased. This is a big risk to normal people, but if she is a sociopath like I suspect, then this kind of surrender is unthinkable. She doesn't want to kill him, but she wants the greatest guarantee of his silence possible and as much control as possible. Incapacitating him is the best she can do then. But letting sherlock decide her fate when she can still have a shape in making it herself? Nu-uh.
We'll just have to disagree on our interpretations of what is possible within the fictional world of Sherlock.

But the thing is, she is giving up control to him anyway. She let him live; that is giving up control because she knows she can't monitor him 24/7 and she knows he could out her if he awakens while she isn't there. In reality, shooting him confers her no additional control, it only changes the circumstances and makes them less ideal for her purpose of convincing Sherlock.
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
The idea of Holmes acting as a deep cover operative going around the world "dismantling" Moriarty's network (read: assassinating foreign nationals without due process) always struck me as a little odd. He's not Jack Bauer or a member of Seal Team Six and nothing else in the series really demonstrates that he has the kind of skills necessary to perform those roles. That transforms his role from genius consulting detective who occasionally helps out Scotland Yard to black ops deep cover field agent. The series is basically asking us to believe he has single-handedly been covertly conducting a bunch of bin Laden assassinations (well, maybe more like bin Laden henchmen) for two years without attracting the attention of either foreign governments or rogue criminal elements and that, you know, that's just the kind of thing he does.

Yes, I have thought about this too much.

I also disliked this. Along with the rescue of the Woman, it is probably the worst part of the show. He shouldn't be a secret agent, he should be a detective. His action abilities should be very limited. I do realise that Sherlock Holmes was a skilled proponent of 'baritsu', was it? But that was some bullshit excuse to feign death.
 

xenist

Member
I also disliked this, along with the rescue of the Woman, it is probably the worst part of the show. He shouldn't be a secret agent, he should be a detective. His action abilities should be very limited. I do realise that Sherlock Holmes was a skilled proponent of 'baritsu', was it? But that was some bullshit excuse to feign death.

And a skilled boxer and a great shot. Doyle didn't create Holmes, or Watson, as an exclusively intellectual hero.
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
And a skilled boxer and a great shot. Doyle didn't create Holmes, or Watson, as an exclusively intellectual hero.

I have no problem with any of those remaining in the show. I didn't mind him fighting with people in his apartment, etc. or being skilled with a gun. I just didn't like him going all Spooks/James Bond. He's a gentleman, he should be able to compete one-on-one, but he isn't and shouldn't be a secret agent.
 

duckroll

Member
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I just finished His Last Vow. Wow. This is totally superhero nonsense now isn't it. There have always been shades of this in the previous seasons, but I guess they finally decided to go all out with it. I hope Season 4 is just Death Note: London - Featuring Sherlock Holmes.

Lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.
 

Veelk

Banned
But the thing is, she is giving up control to him anyway. She let him live; that is giving up control because she knows she can't monitor him 24/7 and she knows he could out her if he awakens while she isn't there. In reality, shooting him confers her no additional control, it only changes the circumstances and makes them less ideal for her purpose of convincing Sherlock.

Okay, look, we've been going around in circles, and the problem is that you seem to think in absolutes. If she didn't have a plan that she was positively sure was going to work out unambiguously in her favor, then you fail to see why she should try to do anything at all.

Of course, shooting him confers more control of the situation. Delaying the conversation itself is a form of control. Otherwise, it would have been up to sherlock to continue the conversation later or expose her there. Then the situation would have been in Sherlock's control. Shooting him, whether to kill him or not, is control. Changing the circumstances itself is control, just not total control.

Second, the thing she did wasn't that she was 100% sure it would work out the way she wanted to. It was a gamble, she knew that. Again, staying there for a minute longer, john would be finding out, that was a certainty in her mind. And her convincing sherlock to do things her way wasn't a certainty. The only certainty she had is that shooting would at the very least delay the conversation.

And when that happened, if Sherlock survived, she might be able to catch him in bed. It didn't work out that way, but there was a chance, and a reasonable one. Certainly better than waiting for John to walk up or begging Sherlock to have mercy on her. In the end, he managed to get out, but that doesn't mean that she had to be monitoring him like the NSA. He could have just been awake when she went to visit him like she did when it was discovered he escaped. At that point, she would have gotten a chance to talk to him.

And you are again arguing that sherlock would be upset at having been shot. Again, sociopaths, which she indicated familiarity with and seems to be one herself, they just don't care about things like that. Far greater was that Sherlock would listen to her story. And she was right. Sherlock thanked her for shooting him, in fact. Shooting him in the chest was not something that Sherlock would resent. Not just from her, but from anyone.

Lastly, what Sherlock did was TAKE control away from Mary in the end by tricking her. That is a stark difference between her giving it up willingly.

Honestly, this could all be summed up like this: She liked her chances in a later conversation better than she liked them in that moment. And given the circumstances and how much she was fucked, she's pretty much right, those were better odds, even if they didn't work out for her all the same.
 

Jak140

Member
Okay, look, we've been going around in circles, and the problem is that you seem to think in absolutes. If she didn't have a plan that she was positively sure was going to work out unambiguously in her favor, then you fail to see her trying to do anything at all.

Of course, shooting him confers more control of the situation. Delaying the conversation itself is a form of control. Otherwise, it would have been up to sherlock to continue the conversation later or expose her there. Then the situation would have been in Sherlock's control. Shooting him, whether to kill him or not, is control. Changing the circumstances itself is control, just not total control.

Second, the thing she did wasn't that she was 100% sure it would work out the way she wanted to. It was a gamble, she knew that. Again, staying there for a minute longer, john would be finding out, that was a certainty in her mind. And her convincing sherlock to do things her way wasn't a certainty. The only certainty she had is that shooting would at the very least delay the conversation.

And when that happened, if Sherlock survived, she might be able to catch him in bed. It didn't work out that way, but there was a chance, and a reasonable one. Certainly better than waiting for John to walk up or begging Sherlock to have mercy on her. In the end, he managed to get out, but that doesn't mean that she had to be monitoring him like the NSA. He could have just been awake when she went to visit him like she did when it was discovered he escaped. At that point, she would have gotten a chance to talk to him.

And you are again arguing that sherlock would be upset at having been shot. Again, sociopaths, which she indicated familiarity with and seems to be one herself, they just don't care about things like that. Far greater was that Sherlock would listen to her story. And she was right. Sherlock thanked her for shooting him, in fact. Shooting him in the chest was not something that Sherlock would resent.

Lastly, what Sherlock did was TAKE control away from Mary in the end by tricking her. That is a stark difference between her giving it up willingly.

I'm not sure how you're estimating the probability of Sherlock waking while she isn't there as less than the probability of him denying her request if she simply said "Please don't tell John or the police, just give me a chance to explain when we're safe." It's fuzzy math either way, but only the second option let's her reason with John without the additional baggage of having shot Sherlock should it come to that. Even barring everything else, that makes it the more logical option, because either way, she has a slim chance of accounting for everything. At least the second option doesn't make her situation worse.
 
Apparently someone's updating that imgur album I posted yesterday, it's up to 42 images now.

Yes, I'm still dying.
Sherlock lol
1A4ttwi.jpg
 

Risible

Member
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I just finished His Last Vow. Wow. This is totally superhero nonsense now isn't it. There have always been shades of this in the previous seasons, but I guess they finally decided to go all out with it. I hope Season 4 is just Death Note: London - Featuring Sherlock Holmes.

Lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.

So you enjoyed it then? I can't parse the meaning from your subtle post. Perhaps next time you should be more clear.

:)
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Oh shit, Mary & John's wedding song lyrics.

"You know, I didn't even know her name"

That has to be a coincidence, because that song fits so well as it is.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I just finished His Last Vow. Wow. This is totally superhero nonsense now isn't it. There have always been shades of this in the previous seasons, but I guess they finally decided to go all out with it. I hope Season 4 is just Death Note: London - Featuring Sherlock Holmes.

Lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.

While I do think this is a little over the top, I am leaning towards agreeing with you. He just knows and is able to do so much it is beyond absurd and far too cute. Getting into the office, as one example, is something that could have been a difficult but high achievement but it was just bullshitted through.

I'd have loved it if we had half an episode of him doing detective work while in the fragile state he was in at the apartment. There was too much JOHN YOU LOVE IT REALLY BRO and the bromance between the two was over-stated.
 
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I just finished His Last Vow. Wow. This is totally superhero nonsense now isn't it. There have always been shades of this in the previous seasons, but I guess they finally decided to go all out with it. I hope Season 4 is just Death Note: London - Featuring Sherlock Holmes.

Lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.

The sad thing is season 3 nearly retroactively makes seasons 1 and 2 worse for me.
 

pigeon

Banned
I realize that Watson has been addicted to danger since the first episode. Him realizing it for the second or third time isn't character development, it's a rerun of what has already been established.

The realization here isn't that Watson is an adrenaline addict, it's that Watson (and by extension people) is incapable of change. He says so explicitly -- Mary was supposed to be different. People attempting to change who they are, and failing, is basically the character theme of this season -- Molly and Tom, Sherlock at the wedding, John and Mary, Mary and Mary's own past. You might not like this theme -- it's certainly not a theme likely to lead to a lot of character growth -- but it is pretty consistent.

Oh. In that case, I agree. Up until the last episode, she didn't even know what a mind palace was. She just shot him in the place he was most likely to survive in. She had no certainty it'd work out, that much is true.

The mind palace isn't relevant in itself. The point is that Mary knows that if she sets things up so that Sherlock can survive, he'll do it, and she has a pretty good view of Sherlock's capabilities. (Mary's explicitly better than Sherlock at understanding how people will behave.)
 
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I just finished His Last Vow. Wow. This is totally superhero nonsense now isn't it. There have always been shades of this in the previous seasons, but I guess they finally decided to go all out with it. I hope Season 4 is just Death Note: London - Featuring Sherlock Holmes.

Lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.

Damn, it affected you to the point of retardation it seems. Maybe seeing as you are a moderator you should act less like an idiot troll and hold yourself to a slightly higher standard in your posts?
 

ganon

Member
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I just finished His Last Vow. Wow. This is totally superhero nonsense now isn't it. There have always been shades of this in the previous seasons, but I guess they finally decided to go all out with it. I hope Season 4 is just Death Note: London - Featuring Sherlock Holmes.

Lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.

...Wow... Although I too am disappointed with S3, but this is another level of over the top reaction...
 

ganon

Member
I just read that Martin Freeman is doing that Fargo show, so he's going to be even busier, huh? Is it really possible for the show to be back on December this year? :(
 
I guess we should start begging for the gritty (would it actually need to be gritty?) cop drama spinoff with Lestrade and his crew at NSY...

It'll occasionally need some fashion catwalk music injected into each episode though.
 

Feran

Member
I just randomly realized yesterday that Rupert Graves is the lieutenant in V for Vendetta. I've watched it so many times, I don't know how I never saw it before ahhhh
 

bengraven

Member
I think my only three complaints about this season (which I feel is trying very hard to be my favorite):

1) not enough Lestrade
2) I'm not a fan of Sherlock getting famous - I was hoping after death he would be more down low
3) not enough Lestrade
 
I just randomly realized yesterday that Rupert Graves is the lieutenant in V for Vendetta. I've watched it so many times, I don't know how I never saw it before ahhhh

Now I bet all the V for Vendetta jokes mixed in with TEH on tumblr make sense... Heh heh lol

SHERLOCK: Miami

Would it really need to be Miami? I'd just want them to storm the Milan runway on a bust personally.

I think my only three complaints about this season (which I feel is trying very hard to be my favorite):

1) not enough Lestrade
2) I'm not a fan of Sherlock getting famous - I was hoping after death he would be more down low
3) not enough Lestrade

I saw more of Lestrade in Many Happy Returns (a freaking 7 min. mini episode) than in both TEH and HLV. He was in TSOT a good amount but that's because most of it revolved around the Best Man speech. He did also get the pair out of the drunk tank and had his opening movie. Therefore, TSOT is one of my fave episodes. :p
 

TrueBlue

Member
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I just finished His Last Vow. Wow. This is totally superhero nonsense now isn't it. There have always been shades of this in the previous seasons, but I guess they finally decided to go all out with it. I hope Season 4 is just Death Note: London - Featuring Sherlock Holmes.

Lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.

lol oh duckroll
 
Actually I don't think I've seen that yet. This is almost as mindblowing as the time I randomly realized that guy in Criminal Minds is Inigo Montoya.

I'll say this, people were having their minds blown last Nov. 5th on tumblr while watching V for Vendetta. The number of people who were going: OMFG DOMINIC = LESTRADE?! was hilarious.
 

duckroll

Member
...Wow... Although I too am disappointed with S3, but this is another level of over the top reaction...

As befitting the show!

I wasn't disappointed with S3 though. I liked most of it. I can laugh at something for being over and the top and ridiculous, and enjoy it too. :)
 
Re: the Mary-shooting-Sherlock debate, how about this?

Mary knew that her shot wasn't especially fatal to Sherlock, but Sherlock, at the time, didn't.

Thus the Molly/Anderson/Mycroft sequence. Sherlock only figured it out later.
 

fireside

Member
Re: the Mary-shooting-Sherlock debate, how about this?

Mary knew that her shot wasn't especially fatal to Sherlock, but Sherlock, at the time, didn't.

Thus the Molly/Anderson/Mycroft sequence. Sherlock only figured it out later.

Even with Sherlock's precautions, his heart stopped beating and the heart monitor made the flatlining noise. That's TV code for "dead". It was only Sherlock's love for John that brought him back to life.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Episode 3 redeemed the first two 100%, in my opinion. It's still the weakest season overall, but the final episode is so good. Probably the 2nd-best episode of the entire run, after the finale of Season 2.
 

Ashhong

Member
So I'm wondering, why weren't they prosecuted for treason? I understand it's Sherlock and all, but this was a major crime. Just because Sherlock killed CAM doesn't mean he didn't still drug Mycroft and take his government laptop. John looked like he got off free too.
 
The only thing I can really think of is your expectations happened...because Season 3 is just as critically acclaimed as the other seasons.

Well it wasn't bad by any means and definitely had some great moments, but not anywhere near the first two series'. Wasn't a big fan of the final episode.
 

Showaddy

Member
So I'm wondering, why weren't they prosecuted for treason? I understand it's Sherlock and all, but this was a major crime. Just because Sherlock killed CAM doesn't mean he didn't still drug Mycroft and take his government laptop. John looked like he got off free too.

Everyone wanted CAM gone and with Mycroft & Lady Smallwood on the council/enquiry it would have been pretty easy to swing that Sherlock just took the laptop as bait rather than actually wanting to sell it.
 

nin1000

Banned
Finished watching every episode as i got recommended this series over a friend and i have to say that i like it very very much.

Does someone know if there exists the message sound that is used in "A Scandal in Belgravia" like the woman sound :p ? Would love to have such a nice message tone haha
 
D

Deleted member 102362

Unconfirmed Member
Watched all three S3 episodes in a row. It felt like a transition season between 2 and 4, like 4 is where the action is going to ramp up again.

I enjoyed it - it just felt so different from seasons 1 and 2.
 
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