Facism
Member
Now it just sounds like you're using the current Israel situation to push your own issues. Tell us more about these evil Turks.
Shifa hospital and Al Shati refugee camp attacked by IDF
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Now it just sounds like you're using the current Israel situation to push your own issues. Tell us more about these evil Turks.
Terra Firma
Banned
How many Kurds has Turkey killed lately? How many times has America voted against Turkey or said something against Turkey as compared to how many times America has voted against Israel or said something against Israel?
And what about the Egyptian government? There's no history of suppressing and mass murdering a minority group in Egypt. And even then, America has not been slow in criticizing the government.
Now, tell me just how critical America is of Israel. Israel has been getting away with mass murder for a very, very long time. Turkey and Egypt wish they were that lucky to get away with whatever they are supposedly getting away with.
How many posts and threads on Gaf were there for Sudan?
Name the conflict and ask yourself that question.
I dont think they deserve that much attention, there are much bigger problems in teh world that actually has sides that can behave like adults.
Want a fix? Hamas can renounce violence, stop firing rockets.
Israel has no excuse then. None.
Instead we have people blithly defending them, 'well they dont kill many people!'... etc...
No violence. None. No tunnels to ferret missiles.
What have they achieved? What will they achieve?
You give Israel a tonne of excuses to act, and it does, then tell us to be shocked? It doesnt work that way.
The problem is the right in Israel and groups like Hamas, want to make Israel a parriah state? Stop throwing punches, that do nothing at all, and start simply living?
Israel will always have an excuse, and Hamas will always give it to them. And in the end? This will happen a few years from now, and after that, and after that.
And nothing will change. Because no one seems to care about changing.
And the pattern will repeat, and repeat, as it has already. And people will forget a few months from now, and Hamas will go back to launching rockets soon afterwards.... etc...
They are. How many dead do you think there would be if the others were there?
Now imagine how many would be living if any democracy were there as well.
Oh yeah, because there certainly wasn't any oppression of the Palestinians before Hamas existed!
makingmusic476
Member
Maybe I wouldn't be so obsessed with Israel's actions if we, the US, didn't give them more aid than any other country every year, if our politicians didn't get up on stage with Israeli politicians and brag about our close ties and them being our closest ally all the time, if Israel wasn't praised as some bastion of secular freedom in an otherwise tyrannical, theocratic Middle-east, and if we didn't have their back in every fucked up thing they do.
The fact that I have a friend on the West Bank right now also has me very tense.
The fact that I have a friend on the West Bank right now also has me very tense.
Didn't know soul had an alt. account.
West Bank tried that, it didn't work. Israel just moved to more subtle methods like destroying homes and starving people to death.
I said that!
So what is your argument then exactly? Israel has treated Palestine like shit for decades even before Hamas existed, but now you think that they'll suddenly stop if Hamas stops.
Except people would be, the world over, more sympathetic to their cause. And that actually matters. Non violence actually works much better then randomly shootin rockets into a country hoping to hit an errant Jew or two.
Sadly the Palestinians are now two facitons ruling two different areas. Pretty much perfect from an opponents point of view.
No. But why do we care so much? Ive seen people get passionately angry about the issue. Why not the others?
Terra Firma
Banned
Please, please educate yourself before making yourself look like an even bigger idiot. Hamas came into existence in the late 80s. Israelis have been terrorizing the Palestinians since at least the 1920s.
It's also a situation that we directly (and before that indirectly) created.
Nothing you just said negates what I said, nor is there any indication that I did not know what you said.
m_shortpants
Member
Not really. As seen in the WB Israel is perfectly content with maintaining the status quo. The world will forget because their treatment of the people there is a slow burn rather than abrupt and 'flashy' like what is happening right now in Gaza.
Are you fucking serious? A 1000 people just got slaughtered, hospitals and UN shelters bombed and your only contribution is "why do you guys care so much?". Fuck you, thats why.
makingmusic476
Member
People barely pay any attention to the West Bank.
Gaza only gets in the news when it's getting bombarded.
Yes aparantly that's what Israeli apologists demand. Never mind the fact that nobody fucking supports Sudan's geonocide. But I guess we need to create a thread to say "Bad Sudan!" Before we can talk about gaza. Then when the Sudan thread dies because everyone agrees it's terrible we will have to create more threads because you know it's not talked about enough.
That's why ......
IDK. I don't be surprised there aren't too much in functional form by now. Also, the only powerplant is not working at full capacity and from today's bombings who knows what else is missing.
But hey!! Why we care so much rite!?!
Are you suggesting that it's impossible for a discussion on this topic on NeoGaf or elsewhere to change someone's mind about this conflict?
Because I can tell you first hand that's not true.
This as well as the fact that once Sudan is used a point of reference for behavior, Israel is then incapable of being used to pivot any moral stand on.
They dont, thats my point.
And any of this has what to do with the IDF attack on the hospital? The only people here who are defending war crimes are you and soul.
I don't think he has one.
Hmm...what are you suggesting here?
zer0blivion
Member
Does Israel have the right to defend itself?
No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/8799/no-israel-does-not-have-the-right-to-self-defense-
Now you're going to say "But we pulled out of Gaza."
Is Gaza Still Occupied and Why Does It Matter?
http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/8807/is-gaza-still-occupied-and-why-does-it-matter
Now what?
Israel/Gaza: Attacks on medical facilities and civilians add to war crime allegations
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/isra...ivilians-add-war-crime-allegations-2014-07-21
15 more Gazans killed in Israeli aggression
At least 15 people have been killed in the latest Israeli strikes on the besieged Gaza Strip, as the number of Palestinian casualties continues to rise in the coastal enclave.
The Israeli military pounded Gaza on Tuesday after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called for the continuation of the military attacks on the Palestinian sliver.
In the latest development, Israeli aircraft fired a missile at the house of Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Palestinian resistance movement of Hamas, before dawn on Tuesday, causing damage but no casualties, according to Gaza authorities.
Hamas said its broadcast outlets, Al-Aqsa TV and Al-Aqsa Radio were also targeted. The television station continued to broadcast, but the radio station could not.
In a televised address on Monday night, Netanyahu said Israel needs to be prepared for a protracted campaign.
Earlier on Monday, at least 10 people, mostly children, lost their lives in an Israeli strike on Shati refugee camp on the edge of Gaza City. Israeli forces also targeted al-Shifa Hospital in the city.
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri denounced the attack on the refugee camp as a massacre.
Since July 8, Israeli warplanes have been pounding numerous sites in the Gaza Strip, demolishing houses and burying families in the rubble. Israeli tanks also began a ground offensive against the impoverished Palestinian land on July 17.
Nearly 1,100 Palestinians have been killed so far in the Israeli attacks and over 6,500 others injured.
The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs said in a report released on Sunday that 226 children have been killed and 1,949 others injured in the Israeli onslaught.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/29/373195/israel-offensive-claims-15-more-lives/
At least 15 people have been killed in the latest Israeli strikes on the besieged Gaza Strip, as the number of Palestinian casualties continues to rise in the coastal enclave.
The Israeli military pounded Gaza on Tuesday after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called for the continuation of the military attacks on the Palestinian sliver.
In the latest development, Israeli aircraft fired a missile at the house of Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Palestinian resistance movement of Hamas, before dawn on Tuesday, causing damage but no casualties, according to Gaza authorities.
Hamas said its broadcast outlets, Al-Aqsa TV and Al-Aqsa Radio were also targeted. The television station continued to broadcast, but the radio station could not.
In a televised address on Monday night, Netanyahu said Israel needs to be prepared for a protracted campaign.
Earlier on Monday, at least 10 people, mostly children, lost their lives in an Israeli strike on Shati refugee camp on the edge of Gaza City. Israeli forces also targeted al-Shifa Hospital in the city.
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri denounced the attack on the refugee camp as a massacre.
Since July 8, Israeli warplanes have been pounding numerous sites in the Gaza Strip, demolishing houses and burying families in the rubble. Israeli tanks also began a ground offensive against the impoverished Palestinian land on July 17.
Nearly 1,100 Palestinians have been killed so far in the Israeli attacks and over 6,500 others injured.
The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs said in a report released on Sunday that 226 children have been killed and 1,949 others injured in the Israeli onslaught.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/29/373195/israel-offensive-claims-15-more-lives/
Im not defending war crimes. Ive barley referenced it.
Israel is conducting a military operation in a very highly populated area with an enemy that isnt above using dirty tricks. Innocents die, thats the tragedy of conflict, if only combatants died conflict wouldnt be tragic.
My point was, nothing would be happening there if Hamas hadnt launched (so many) rockets at Israel.
Yes it does. Now what?
Israel is conducting a military operation in a very highly populated area with an enemy that isnt above using dirty tricks. Innocents die, thats the tragedy of conflict, if only combatants died conflict wouldnt be tragic.
My point was, nothing would be happening there if Hamas hadnt launched (so many) rockets at Israel.
Yes it does. Now what?
Point me to the posters on GAF that support Sudan's geonocide. Also do these supporters of Sudan make excuses for them. Maybe the people in Darfur were just being human shields?
Now let's do the same for people that support Israel...... Now let's see what actually stokes passionate responses. I'm going to go out on a limb here to point out the obvious but I'm guessing its due to all the excuses and support that Israel gets.
zer0blivion
Member
You're clearly trolling.
They are attacking a hospital and known UN shelter in broad daylight, that isn't tragic, it fucking criminal.
Your point is crystal clear, why are we talking about it. Because we are human and we have the right to be critical of any government. Why the fuck do we care about anything.
Civil disobedience in NY: http://normanfinkelstein.com/ Finkelstein: "If one hundred people either sign up to get arrested or to be there in solidarity, I'll be there too."
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Do you expect them to live in hell without fighting back in anyway? Their situation won't change, Israel will keep on oppressing them.
"Shit happens in war" is no excuse for the negligence that the IDF has been displaying. If someone you want to capture or kill is holding an innocent hostage you don't shrug your shoulders and fill them both with buckshot.
Nor would anything be happening if Israel hadn't invaded the West Bank on false pretenses and displaced or arrested hundreds of people. Nor would anything be happening if rogue Palestinians didn't kidnap Israeli settlers. Nor would anything be happening if those settlers never decided to live on stolen land. ET CETERA.
You can try to shift the blame to Hamas, and the Palestinian civillians all you want. The IDF is the one pulling the trigger, the responsibility for their actions lies with them. I would agree with their cries of "self-defence" if they showed some measure of regret or restraint for what is happening, or awareness of how this situation came to be, but they're not. The IDF, both governments and the settlers all get no sympathy from me for continuing to escalate this nonsense. The innocents on both sides deserve better, and the fact that the US is keeping peacekeepers out is criminal.
This has gone on far too long, everyone on both sides draws a different line when figuring out who started it. The best way to stop this is to do our jobs and break them up before Israeli "revenge" wipes out the entire population.
You're unbelievable. I'm tempted to think you're payed to do this.
This is from the other day when the IDF attacked the UN shelter:
Deny everything:
Finally forced to admit:
Then claimed the school was empty and noone died.
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/offic...-unrwa-commissioner-general-pierre-krähenbühl
Deny everything:
Finally forced to admit:
Then claimed the school was empty and noone died.
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/offic...-unrwa-commissioner-general-pierre-krähenbühl
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