I mean, it was $120 Australian. Our dollar suuuuucks.
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Shin Megami Tensei Community Thread: Be Your True Demon
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
- Start date
I mean, it was $120 Australian. Our dollar suuuuucks.
What's crazy to me is that there's a demon that was ONLY in SMT: NINE (that Xbox game that was supposed to have an MMO component that got cancelled) will be appearing in Deep Strange Journey.
Maria
There's an Xbox SMT game?
Yep. It had an MMO Component that was cancelled, but it still released (only in Japan of course).
I haven't played, but based on the general consensus, you aren't missing much.
Weird.
links pls
NeonZ
Member
I'm actually really curious about how they'll be handling her. She was just an AI in Nine, rather than the actual Maria, so this could actually be her first appearance as an actual direct interpretation.
They mentioned Maria in SMTIV as a human that rose to the realm of the gods, but then Apocalypse didn't seem to mention her at all, likely because it didn't fit with how they handled the YHVH and "Messiah" plot points.
Anyway I can order these from a site that's in English, or a walkthrough of what to click on these sites?
The listings are pretty recent and I haven't seen these books with their new release dates on any English website so far. Just wait until Amazon Japan lists them since it's pretty easy to order through them if you don't know Japanese.
I'll wait and do that. Googling the yen to USD, seems like a good price for both.
That's what's up, thanks!
Trying to remember the last time I pre-ordered an artbook without weird unexplained delays and mysterious release circumstances and coming up empty, I have no clue why it always works out this way haha.
An empty orange sphere doesn't seem like it would have been too difficult to make on the 3DS, haha.
Honestly, I liked IV's atmosphere more than Nocturne's. The NPC's went a long way to making the world feel like an oppressive post-apocalyptic world, meanwhile Nocturne's NPC's are just hanging around as if the world has always been like that and they generally don't mind.
SJ is better than both though.
Nocturne gave it more of a "wibbly wobbly" feel in a good way. One day you're just a high school kid taking the subway home, then your teacher asks you to go see her in the hospital and suddenly the world folds in on itself and shit goes sideways.
Unfortunately, it all just made me not really care. The gameplay kept me around until the end, but I was never invested in what happened to the world. I feel it would have benefited from having a longer opening section, showing us different aspects of the world that would eventually lead to the other characters making their reasons as well as motivating us to pick a side(or reject all of them,
Neutral would still be the best ending storywise
cj_iwakura
Member
Still no word on just what's going to be IN the next Kaneko Works?
There's SJ and, what, his light novel stuff?
I've heard the same, The biggest resource on it is likely the HG101 article. I happened to see the LE for sale at Nakano Broadway in Tokyo. They wanted way too much for it (like 8000Y).
Nocturne's an exercise in minimalist storytelling, and there's a lot of depth if you know where to look. We had fun times debating the identity of the Maiden in Black at PA once.
There's SJ and, what, his light novel stuff?
I've heard the same, The biggest resource on it is likely the HG101 article. I happened to see the LE for sale at Nakano Broadway in Tokyo. They wanted way too much for it (like 8000Y).
Nocturne's an exercise in minimalist storytelling, and there's a lot of depth if you know where to look. We had fun times debating the identity of the Maiden in Black at PA once.
eyeball_kid
Member
I agree that Nocturne was minimalist in its storytelling, but I think the lack of NPCs was likely due to technical limitations of the PS2. It was supposed to be Tokyo overrun with demons, but instead it felt empty. The fact that that created a certain atmosphere of dread and isolation that appealed to many people was just a happy accident. I would love to see a remaster-ish version of Nocturne with the amount of crowds in Persona 5. Demons just walking around everywhere.
Kaneko is credited for "Scenario Drafts" in SMTIV and that and "World Settings Planner" in Apocalypse. Perhaps environments from the SMTIV universe?
Maybe V is SMT Switch??? Maybe there's something to that rose petal theory?
cj_iwakura
Member
SMTIV seems pretty much like what the end result would be. Demons rule everywhere that isn't underground.
Who says an expanded opening before the end of the world couldn't be minimalist?
snow in jamaica
Member
The game sets up their roles at the start. Yuko is "the nurturer" and protects her students, Hijiri is a journalist, Chiaki keeps the group in check, Isamu wanders alone, and Hikawa enjoys stillness and peace. The distortions that take place in the Vortex World handle the rest.
Also I never got the impression the Vortex World was supposed to feel densely populated.
Also I never got the impression the Vortex World was supposed to feel densely populated.
I don't think so either, which is why I would have liked to see an expanded opening instead of more NPCs after the end. As it is, the game doesn't give me enough time to get invested in the old world so I'm not interest in what happens to it, which is a problem because the Vortex World exists in order to decide the fate of that world.
That's my problem with Nocturne's atmosphere, I think the setting is a really creative and interesting idea, but I think it needed to spend some time letting me get to know the old world so that I would want to see how it turns out. In failing to do that, Nocturne's world became nothing more than a playground for me to break the press turn battle system.
eyeball_kid
Member
From the Nocturne strategy guide via Wikipedia:
It's partially just speculation on my part, but it wasn't like there were just a handful of demons who took over Tokyo, aside from all the Manikins. I think if they had made Nocturne today, it would visually be much more overrun with demons like P5, or SMTIV as cj_iwakura said.
I mean, the "old world" is modern Tokyo. Considering Nocturne was primarily made for a Japanese audience, the beginning was more like "imagine your world, and now imagine it being gone". They didn't need to explain much about the original world because it's unimportant to the story. I do think it probably failed at connecting you with the NPCs that survive, but it would've been an hour or two of exposition to do that, and the SMT series is not really big on slice of life storytelling.
Wondering the same thing.
Between the first three Kaneko Works and Digital Devil Apocalypse, they already covered a lot of his art. What will they fill two books with??
Yeah, the "old world" is our world, but I disagree that showing it off would be unimportant to the story. Without doing so it's hard to look at most of the surviving NPCs as anything but completely insane.
Compared with SJ, while we are just dropped right into the Schwarzwelt at the start, we get to see the horrible things that ultimately lead Jimenez and Zelenin to choosing their extreme paths for the world. The negative side of humanity is on complete display here while we are also trapped with innocent people who show off the good of humanity. Everything is set up to justify the choices at the end, getting us invested in not only the fate of the world, but of everyone involved as well.
That made the difference between wandering aimlessly in one game and pushing forward to see it through in the other for me.
Not just hardware limitations but things like screen size and such. Although if they could recreate the feel and look of the PS2 titles in the 3DS, I wonder why they just didn't go with that. IV's visuals leave a lot to be desired, while Nocturne and DDS have much stronger art direction, which goes a long way in stablishing atmosphere.
To each their own, but the minimalistic presentation and the sparseness of the world is precisely what I like so much about Nocturne's atmosphere. The fact that the NPCs are largely apathetic only contributes to that feeling of surrealness and isolation (in a sense, it reminds a bit of the first Dark Souls). It feels unique in a way IV's more standard apocalyptic scenario doesn't. I don't really need to care about what happened to the old world as I'm much more immersed in this new one.
Add to that the conversations with the man in the wheelchair, the soundtrack, the manikins, and Nocturne's world just works better for me.
I've yet to play SJ so I can't comment about that, but like I said, visuals are important to me as far as atmosphere is concerned, so a DS game might struggle a bit on that front, though I'm sure it compensates on others.
Pretty much. I'd like to make it clear that I'm not trying to change anyone's view of Nocturne, I just find it very interesting that the aspect of the game I thought was the weakest when I was done with it is also one of the things praised about it the most around here. It just makes me want to talk about it
Not just hardware limitations but things like screen size and such. Although if they could recreate the feel and look of the PS2 titles in the 3DS, I wonder why they just didn't go with that. IV's visuals leave a lot to be desired, while Nocturne and DDS have much stronger art direction, which goes a long way in stablishing atmosphere.
To each their own, but the minimalistic presentation and the sparseness of the world is precisely what I like so much about Nocturne's atmosphere. The fact that the NPCs are largely apathetic only contributes to that feeling of surrealness and isolation (in a sense, it reminds a bit of the first Dark Souls). It feels unique in a way IV's more standard apocalyptic scenario doesn't. I don't really need to care about what happened to the old world as I'm much more immersed in this new one.
Add to that the conversations with the man in the wheelchair, the soundtrack, the manikins, and Nocturne's world just works better for me.
I've yet to play SJ so I can't comment about that, but like I said, visuals are important to me as far as atmosphere is concerned, so a DS game might struggle a bit on that front, though I'm sure it compensates on others.
I'm more likely to forgive limitations like resolution, but I think the reason SMTIV is different from Nocturne is that they just wanted to go in a different direction with it. Dragon Quest VIII is on the 3DS after all, it might not look as good as on the PS2 but I think it's safe to say they could have had something similar to Nocturne's style if they wanted. SMTIV may not be very impressive visually, but I personally think that it doesn't harm its atmosphere, the gritty post-apocalyptic setting along with the phenomenal soundtrack makes it work for me.
SJ will probably work for you more than SMTIV. While it doesn't have the loneliness of Nocturne, it has a great sci-fi horror setting that works wonderfully with the SMT formula. However, I am also biased because this is the direction I would want the SMT series to go in, so take it however you want, haha.
Hopefully DSJ turns out well.
cj_iwakura
Member
SJ is a very creepy game, especially with how merciless the game is. You don't feel like a hero, you're a marine who is WAY out of his element.
That is very much a demon realm that wants you dead.
Really bummed the remake appears to be going Full Anime.
Also, Kaz worked on P5 as a 'supervisor' for the HDization of the demons. It shows, they look fantastic.
That is very much a demon realm that wants you dead.
Really bummed the remake appears to be going Full Anime.
Also, Kaz worked on P5 as a 'supervisor' for the HDization of the demons. It shows, they look fantastic.
Yeah, I'm a bit iffy on the remake adding elements that seemingly clash with the original's feel. SMT I, Soul Hackers and DDS
are currently higher priority so I'll probably have enough time to read lots of feedback regarding DSJ. If most people feel like the additions are detrimental to the experience, I'll just play the original regardless of whatever gameplay improvements the remake might bring. Specially if they really dumb down the difficulty.
(this might be sacrilegial for a SMT fan but I never got to finish the duology as my PS2 died in the middle of my playthrough of the first game. I bought both on the PS3 but am still a bit hesitant to start considering all the complaints about performance)
I'm not convinced yet, not nearly enough info.
I haven't finished DDS for the same reason, haha.
cj_iwakura
Member
The new art and the new character are proof enough. They've already destroyed the original character aesthetics.
Sequence Six
Member
I'm interested in the remake to Strange Journey because even though I love basically everything about the original game I find the endings to be...not terribly worth my time, I guess? No matter how well they fit the tone of the game I don't get a lot of satisfaction from them. So the idea of having a version with another ending to aim for is really intriguing for me. I should probably re-hunt down one of the last copies of the original in my area before I'm left at the mercies of rising online prices but I think I'm going to wait for news of a localization for the remake with a bit of hope in my hands.
cj_iwakura
Member
Core SMT endings are usually awful. The only ones that ever felt fulfilling were SMT II's and Apocalypse's.
Sequence Six
Member
I'm fine with endings that make you feel hollow inside but sometimes/a lot of times mainline endings make me feel manipulated not by circumstance but by the guy writing the plot who wants me to know exactly how much he's frowning at the moment.
I keep hearing great things about II. I should throw that on my backlog.
I've said it before, I don't really care for most of Kaneko's modern human designs, so the art change isn't a big loss(nor an improvement) over what the original game had.
As for the new character, we know nothing about her yet...
cj_iwakura
Member
Betting that she's waifu bait is easy money. She's a demon that's taken on a human form and the MC can show her the value of humanity and love. Calling it now.
I thought SJ's simple designs were miles above exaggerated multi-expression art most JRPGs have.
That one static portrait conveys volumes.
This is quite cynical, haha.
Mastema is a demon. I think Kaneko's demon designs are great.
It's the lifeless humans that tend to not work for me.
eyeball_kid
Member
Yeah, that's a fair point. We don't really get to see this supposed stagnation in the world's life energy:
The initial concept of a triggered rebirth to prevent stagnation was suggested by Kaneko upon seeing a change in fashion: after a period of flashy or gaudy clothing tastes, people had begun wearing plain suits. Using this, he thought up the concept of this signalling a stagnation in the world's life energy, necessitating a drastic change.
People always talk about Kaneko's faces, but the constant creativity and unique style in his designs alone is a reason why he's a big loss for SMT. I can understand why people wouldn't like his naturalistic-yet-spooky style (especially people who prefer current anime trends), but his costume designs blow away any other Atlus artist. He has an eye for high fashion that really sets SMT characters apart from other series. From what I've seen of SMT IV, though the character designs are serviceable, they suffered from his absence.
cj_iwakura
Member
Kaneko's women always appear especially classy. He has an eye for modest fashion.
I think this is actually a good point, and something I haven't put much though into before.
I said that I don't care for most of his humans in his modern artstyle, with one exception being the main characters in Digital Devil Saga, who I think are fantastic. Looking at the elaborate outfits in the image you posted, as well as the countless demon designs I enjoy, I think I have a better idea as to why I tend to not care for his human designs...
I think his current artstyle is wasted on a modern setting. With plain clothing, and more natural hairstyles, his designs end up feeling more dull and lifeless compared to the otherworldly demons. Even the Raidou games benefit from being set in a different time period. So I guess I must disagree with your last part, I don't think mainline SMT needs Kaneko anymore, but rather that Kaneko needs a new IP to work with that wont restrain him.
ASilentProtagonist
Member
Destroyed? I wouldn't say the new art is that radical of a change. I'm looking forward to playing SJ after the heaps of praise i've seen on here. I hope they do a great job with the remake.
SJ's new art strips away everything that made Kaneko's art unique, so I disagree with that. Doi's new demon designs are pretty good, but I prefer the additional eeriness that Kaneko's style gave the demons. It's a real shame that Kaneko produced less and less art for the series, especially since his designs got so much better over time. His DDS and Raidou stuff is full of creativity.
I can't wait for the funny hijinks between Louisa and Datass-chan. Which one will manage to sway Marine-kun's heart to their cause?
Tightass: "I...If it's for you, then I guess I could fight for humanity or whatever... N-not that I care about you or anything, baka!!!"
Louisa: "
Let us rule hell together as king and queen, my love
Personally, I like Louisa-chan's classyness, but it's hard to resist an ass like that. uguu~
Personally I think Deep Strange Journey will be a good taste of what's to come for the series. I mean the art style change (even though it's not as bad as it could have been) is awful, and the focus on a new teenage girl looking character is a huge red flag, but I wonder how much of the tone they'll change or how much the new scenario will differ from the rest of the game.
If they go and make even SJ, the game with the most eerie and oppressive atmosphere in the series, anime then there's truly no hope for the series ever going back to its glory days IMO. To me at least SMT is simply not SMT without Kaneko, but I'm at least hoping it can retain some of its seriousness without him on board, and IV and especially Apocalypse aren't a good sign.
If they go and make even SJ, the game with the most eerie and oppressive atmosphere in the series, anime then there's truly no hope for the series ever going back to its glory days IMO. To me at least SMT is simply not SMT without Kaneko, but I'm at least hoping it can retain some of its seriousness without him on board, and IV and especially Apocalypse aren't a good sign.
I really think the hate for DSJ is overblown. Yes, the art is downgrade from Kaneko, and is a really bizarre decision to change it for everyone. If they had the new character alongside the old artwork, I don't think it would clash that badly.
However, the art doesn't look that bad, the characters are still very adult, including the new one. People saying she is a teenager really need to go look at the rest of the series again. Nanashi, Asahi, Toki, and 90% of the casts from P3, P4, and P5 are teenagers. Alex from DSJ is (appearing like, because she is definitely a demon of some type) an adult. I seriously doubt her story would be "showing her what love is" or whatever while you build you social link with Zelenin. Alex looks to be about the same age as Zelenin. I think the story will be fine, and still be oppressive like the original, but it will be diminished somewhat due to the art changes. Then again, I think a some of the things people made big deals about being "anime" in IV and Apocalypse were also really overblown. The thing about Isabeau and the manga made prefect sense because of the clash of cultures, and the themes of people in Mikado being introduced to literature they had never seen before. The manga would technically be considered a "relic" and part of the game was about the people of Mikado learning about Tokyo.
Simply put: I think many of you are judging DSJ when we know so little about it. My main concerns for the game are not as much with the story, but with the difficulty. I hope the save anywhere is more like a modern Fire Emblem "casual" mode than being imposed on everyone. If it is something you have to choose at the start and can't change, I am fine with it. A friend and I disagree on modern Fire Emblem casual mode all the time, but I think it is a thing that makes what can be a super intimidating game to the point where they don't want to play more games in the series, something they can give a try, get a better grip on it, and take off the training wheels for future games or a replay.
Strange Journey is well known as one of the more difficult Megaten games, and I think they want to reach a wider audience with the difficulty with this one, I just hope they keep the original audience in mind and make they optional. The art change, I don't really get though, as using the same art worked fine for Devil Survivor Overclocked and Record Breaker (granted always never cared for the way the humans in the Devil Survivor games are drawn).
However, the art doesn't look that bad, the characters are still very adult, including the new one. People saying she is a teenager really need to go look at the rest of the series again. Nanashi, Asahi, Toki, and 90% of the casts from P3, P4, and P5 are teenagers. Alex from DSJ is (appearing like, because she is definitely a demon of some type) an adult. I seriously doubt her story would be "showing her what love is" or whatever while you build you social link with Zelenin. Alex looks to be about the same age as Zelenin. I think the story will be fine, and still be oppressive like the original, but it will be diminished somewhat due to the art changes. Then again, I think a some of the things people made big deals about being "anime" in IV and Apocalypse were also really overblown. The thing about Isabeau and the manga made prefect sense because of the clash of cultures, and the themes of people in Mikado being introduced to literature they had never seen before. The manga would technically be considered a "relic" and part of the game was about the people of Mikado learning about Tokyo.
Simply put: I think many of you are judging DSJ when we know so little about it. My main concerns for the game are not as much with the story, but with the difficulty. I hope the save anywhere is more like a modern Fire Emblem "casual" mode than being imposed on everyone. If it is something you have to choose at the start and can't change, I am fine with it. A friend and I disagree on modern Fire Emblem casual mode all the time, but I think it is a thing that makes what can be a super intimidating game to the point where they don't want to play more games in the series, something they can give a try, get a better grip on it, and take off the training wheels for future games or a replay.
Strange Journey is well known as one of the more difficult Megaten games, and I think they want to reach a wider audience with the difficulty with this one, I just hope they keep the original audience in mind and make they optional. The art change, I don't really get though, as using the same art worked fine for Devil Survivor Overclocked and Record Breaker (granted always never cared for the way the humans in the Devil Survivor games are drawn).
You think she looks like a teen? odd.
I think the HD project would be a better sign of what's to come than DSJ. A quick remake doesn't seem like the best way to judge the future of the series, some people did the same with Etrian Odyssey, fearing that future games would be story focused with pre-built parties after the Untold games, then EOV is made and it sticks with the classic style.
Do we even know who is working on the scenario for DSJ?
snow in jamaica
Member
That's what they are. The Vortex World is a world of disorder that affects its inhabitants.
She doesn't look like a "teen" the same way Nanashi or Asahi do, but she'd be right at home in P5. Those "teens" are pretty much young adults in a school uniform.
I can't fault anyone for being concerned about DSJ considering Atlus' latest outputs, specially from team Maniax. The problem with the new girl is that she kinda reeks of Marie. "We need a selling point for this port... How about a waifu?"
Do I get bonus points if she ends up being a tsundere?
I agree with you concerning IV's tone though, I don't really have an issue with it.
I thought the scene with Yaso Magatsuhi was hilarious tbh, and his clay-ish design is so goofy please bring him back Atlus 'kay