And women in the US at the turn of the last century were arrested for showing any skin at beaches.
SHOCKING NEWS: Tweets About Prophet Muhammad Spark Saudi Death Threats
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And women in the US at the turn of the last century were arrested for showing any skin at beaches.
Oh yeah, right, "subjects". Either way, I thought most Saudi "subjects" lived pretty well.
maniac-kun
Member
Mob mentality.
I'm watching it, but it seems like most of the people shown aren't Saudi "subjects".
Trust me, I'm not trying to downplay it, as I do know that the lives of a good percentage of Saudi people is pretty bad, but my point is that for those with influence in the population, it's pretty good, and thus, they see no reason to change.
Once again, not everyone living in Saudi Arabia, even if they've been living there for years, and we may not consider them to be foreign workers anymore are still deemed so, and they don't get real help from the govt. Those people are marginalized, and they're opinion doesn't mean much. I'm trying to answer your question as to why the Saudi population doesn't just have an Arab Spring of their own.
From what I've learned, Saudi Arabia is like two separate worlds. One of old Saudi families that are wealthy with thousands of well off "subjects", and another world of foreign workers and their descendants who don't live too well off. Yes, I know there is a naturalization process, but I believe that unless you're very well qualified, or more importantly, have a true Saudi male relative, then you don't have much of a chance of becoming a "subject" (citizen).
In fact, I was once told by a Saudi that I know that most of the population of Saudi Arabia isn't even technically Saudi, if that makes any sense.
Sorry Soulplaya but you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of poverty in Saudi Arabia, and the middle class is shrinking and less well off. We've also got high unemployment. Altogether, it's not the rosy picture you paint.
BTW naturalised Saudis tend to be well off, as generally only highly skilled professionals or people with connections get offered naturalisation.
BTW naturalised Saudis tend to be well off, as generally only highly skilled professionals or people with connections get offered naturalisation.
Where the fuck am I denying poverty? Where? In fact, I said, "lives of a good percentage of Saudi people is pretty bad".
He's asking why isn't there an Arab Spring in Saudi Arabia? I said (and this isn't the only reason), those with influence in Saudi Arabia, are very wealthy, live a very comfortable life, and don't want things to change. How is that statement wrong?
And your point about the naturalization process is the one that I just made in my last post. Holy shit, I'm sorry for being pissed, but this has been happening to me a few times over the last few days.
EDIT: OK, here are some REAL numbers. The population of Saudi Arabia is 27,000,000. 8 million of which are non-nationals. They, from my understanding, aren't considered "subjects", and get little help from the government. That's what I've been saying. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Saudi_Arabia#UN_estimates.5B5.5D
Pollux
Member
There are so many things wrong with this post.
The slave trade and colonialism were not because of Christianity.
And the rise of extreme Christian evangelicalism has little to nothing to do with the Bush Administration and more to do with the religious right rising up after Roe v. Wade and politicizing.
What's the bible's stance on slavery? Is it condemned anywhere?
Pollux
Member
The African slave trade did not come about because those people viewed it as God's will, but because they were greedy and racist, viewing the Africans as sub-human, and then using religion to justify it. Yea the Bible says slavery is OK. So what? There's a difference between the type of slavery practiced in the Roman Empire and the African slave trade. I'm not OK-ing either but just saying that neither types of slavery were BECAUSE of Christianity. Justified by it, sure, but not the root cause.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
It isn't on the same level bro. Not in the current climate. Radical Islam is a big problem.
In the OT, it is condemned when owning another Jew, but that mainly pertains to Mosaic law that DOES NOT apply to Christians.
In the NT, what I remember from Bible classes, is in a letter from Paul to Philemon, where he said that he was returning an old slave of his (Philemon's slave who ran away), Onesimus, to him, but Paul wanted Philemon to accept him as a brother of his, and no longer as a slave. Legend holds that Philemon indeed listened to Paul and freed Onesimus.
EDIT: I also believe that in Corinthians, Paul told slaves to seek their freedom.
Why couldn't they view it as god's will if the bible states slavery is ok? If they choose to use the word of god as a moral compass, wouldn't that mean they were justified in believing it was morally justified if the good book did not explicitly say otherwise?
What other religion has even a fraction of the developmentally damaged sociopaths?
And then you look at coutnries that can be labeled by their predominate belief system. Christian nations, Buddhist nations, Atheist nations, etc. no real issues in them for the most part but Islamic nations? Oh boy.
I just read the tweets. Is the guy an atheist?? The article mentions that some the angry clergymen called him an atheist, and the tweets seem to suggest that.
I would have a problem if he was trying to spread his views to other young people, because it contradicts Islamic values. But the reaction that this is receiving is unreal. These people getting riled up and calling for his death need to calm down. This needs to be approached in a rational way. But I guess, it is too much to ask for.. since we are talking about a country raised on the wahabi version of Islam.
He is a 23 year old guy!! We all make mistakes when we are young. If these people really want justice, they would talk to him and find out why he feels that way about the prophet. Maybe he just doesn't quite understand what Islam is about, or the history of the prophet. Try to educate him.
What these clergymen are doing is ignorant, and goes against everything the prophet preached. (God is the most forgiving)
But in the end, this is the result of what happens when you take something to the extreme. Saudi Arabia is taking Islam, twisting it and trying to promote an extreme version of it. They have been doing this for decades, and as a result people are going to the other extreme and leaving Islam.
Islam is supposed to be a moderate religion. God says that muslims are supposed to be stand in the middle, to not be taken to extremes.
What is happening right now, is the exact opposite.
I would have a problem if he was trying to spread his views to other young people, because it contradicts Islamic values. But the reaction that this is receiving is unreal. These people getting riled up and calling for his death need to calm down. This needs to be approached in a rational way. But I guess, it is too much to ask for.. since we are talking about a country raised on the wahabi version of Islam.
He is a 23 year old guy!! We all make mistakes when we are young. If these people really want justice, they would talk to him and find out why he feels that way about the prophet. Maybe he just doesn't quite understand what Islam is about, or the history of the prophet. Try to educate him.
What these clergymen are doing is ignorant, and goes against everything the prophet preached. (God is the most forgiving)
But in the end, this is the result of what happens when you take something to the extreme. Saudi Arabia is taking Islam, twisting it and trying to promote an extreme version of it. They have been doing this for decades, and as a result people are going to the other extreme and leaving Islam.
Islam is supposed to be a moderate religion. God says that muslims are supposed to be stand in the middle, to not be taken to extremes.
What is happening right now, is the exact opposite.
Number of atheist/christian/hindu/buddhist/etc. nations that regularly prosecute, execute, etc. non-believers or those seen as going against or slighting said belief system: 0
Number of islamic nations that regularly prosecute, execute, etc. non-believers or those seen as slighting said belief system: several
So sure, not all of them, but the fact that there's a significant and noticeable number that do is disgusting
What did he do wrong? He just has different views on a historical and religous figure.
Sutton Dagger
Member
what
VariantX04
Loser slave of the system :(
UPDATE3: Some good news. Turns out the newspaper reports of Hamza's apprehension were false. He's still out there somewhere and locals are thirsting for blood. A liberal Saudi blogger with sources close to Hamza confirms that he's been targeted for a while as some sort of attempt by the ultra-conservatives to make an example out of a list of people on Twitter (some were even told they were being watched). This is life here, GAF.
But, just to be clear, you still wouldn't support death threats, arresting him or otherwise taking action against him, correct?
Insisting on uniformity of religious opinion (Islamic values) across an entire state is extreme in itself.
No, he shouldn't be receiving death threats. If he is an apostate, then it is up to God to punish him, not me, unless he starts spreading his idea and organizing some kind of religious war.
I guess I should have clarified what I was talking about. I would have a problem with him promoting his ideas to young people, because it goes against Islamic unity. You should know by now that Islam is a way of life, and it is not just some set of rituals you do at home.
Let's say that there is someone in the USA ( or any country) who preaches to people about how being American is terrible and that he is constantly promoting for people to revoke their rights as citizens and secede. Isn't that a danger to the country as a whole? Wouldn't you want to stop him from spreading his ideas?
So, imagine living in a muslim country.... and you will get the idea.
What kind of question is that?? Man, some people on this board just love asking silly questions. And I say that with respect.
What kind of question is that?? Man, some people on this board just love asking silly questions. And I say that with respect.
Well you did say it was up to God, not you, to punish him unless he starts spreading his ideas to other people, meaning that if that did indeed happen, you would bring it upon yourself to punish him. What I said isn't really out of context with the phrasing of your post.
I think you know what I meant. I can't fight a war by myself!!! What I meant was that it is up to God to punish him, unless he starts gathering people and wages a war, then we have problem. We obviously can't just stand aside and watch. And by we, I mean muslims.
ah, I see. The chances of that ever happening though are 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% x 0
It has happened before though.
example?
I don't know the exact name of the person that started it. But it happened a loooong time ago. I will try to find it later.
So, if he went around and started telling other Muslims that they should leave their faith, then he should be punished?
Freezie KO
Banned
Smellycat scares the shit out of me.
Religion of peace.
Religion of peace.
It's sad that just believing in God isn't considered extreme yet. Humanity has so far to go... I get depressed knowing I'll never see it truly grow up.
I strongly agree with the suggestion that you can't get angry about people who don't share your religious views doing something that may go against your own beliefs.
Thankfully, all the Muslim people I know are far more tolerant and rational than these Saudi knobs who take things to extremes.
Thankfully, all the Muslim people I know are far more tolerant and rational than these Saudi knobs who take things to extremes.
I'm Hindu. AFAIK there wasn't much backlash for caricatures of Hindu deities in american cartoons. Indian cartoonists frequently depict our deities in comics in newspapers, though not in an unfavorable light.
The religious loonies in the country live in rural areas or parts of northern India where Hindi is the major language. They wouldn't know what a Simpson is. The biggest religious backlash to my knowledge happened when a Muslim painter (M.F.Hussain) drew nude depictions of Hindu deities.
Mhmmmmmm
krypt0nian
Banned
Wait until May!
This behavior is expected now. I feel bad for everyone indoctrinated into this life.
Make it a month. Make it like RP Jan.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
They have to. SA has the holiest shrine/place in Islam, and the Saudi family are afraid that if they don´t take a hard line in regard to these things, they would be overthrown by their population or at least by extreme elements of their population.
what did the first round achieve?
Apparently, not enough. Perhaps more effort is required next time, maybe some mainstream media participation.
Some muslims need to learn that islamic rules and norms are completely irrelevant to non-muslims (and some muslims!). If it takes some hardcore offence to teach them that, so be it.
fabricated backlash
Member
Islam needs it's own "Life of Brian".
Freezie KO
Banned
Clay Davis
Member
dedicating a day to insulting the prophet isn't going to achieve that, it will only make them more hardline.
enaging them on the fact that they've made the prophet into a idol would bare more results.
what is this I don't even
Absolutely not. That person should have the right to say those things.
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