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[SportsFan581]

A single season of a TV shows can hold an audience for months, and still cost less than a game that can be beat in a week.

Still, the biggest hurdle is that Netflix eventually reached profitability by massively expanding its audience to every single device with an internet connection on the planet. MS, even accounting for game streaming, doesn't have the same reach.

But how many AAA games do you need to release in a year to keep things going? How many AA to fill in the gaps? Netflix spends a $hit ton on content, both in the very expensive deals for older syndicated content and for all of their original content. https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/ne...s-than-entire-tv-industry-in-2005-1203441709/

That makes things very expensive.

 

[Tulipanzo]

The whole point of doing xCloud is to reach those people.

Thing with xCloud is that it's an unreliable and largely unpopular technology at the best of times.
There's also the issue of monetizing a service like that to a mobile audience, which is notoriously difficult.

I expect most people that will use xCloud will mostly be existing XBox owners on their home internet connection (as it is for me with PS4 game streaming).

 

[ManaByte]

Thing with xCloud is that it's an unreliable and largely unpopular technology at the best of times.

The beta works great. What are you talking about?

Just because stuff like Stadia is shit, it doesn't mean MS didn't come up with a better way to stream.

There's also the issue of monetizing a service like that to a mobile audience, which is notoriously difficult.

It's included with GamePass Ultimate. Again, people on mobile don't have a problem paying for Neflix.

I expect most people that will use xCloud will mostly be existing XBox owners on their home internet connection (as it is for me with PS4 game streaming).

Why the fuck would they do that when they can do it right now and stream at 1080p?

 

[wolffy71]

A single season of a TV shows can hold an audience for months, and still cost less than a game that can be beat in a week.

Still, the biggest hurdle is that Netflix eventually reached profitability by massively expanding its audience to every single device with an internet connection on the planet. MS, even accounting for game streaming, doesn't have the same reach.

What tv show do you watch for "months"?

 

[EverydayBeast]

Nobody knows what the hell xcloud or gamepass is, sounds good but it sounds like Microsoft lost control of their original xbox live eco system, SONY's PS Now, Plus and clear marketing plans makes Microsoft NERVOUS.

 

[wolffy71]

Nobody knows what the hell xcloud or gamepass is, sounds good but it sounds like Microsoft lost control of their original xbox live eco system, SONY's PS Now, Plus and clear marketing plans makes Microsoft NERVOUS.

Im not sure theres one thing in this post that makes sense. I dont say that to be a jerk but seriously what are you saying? Nobody knows what gamepass is? PSnow makes MS nervous? Lost control of their ecosystem? What does that even mean.

 

[Nikana]

Nobody knows what the hell xcloud or gamepass is, sounds good but it sounds like Microsoft lost control of their original xbox live eco system, SONY's PS Now, Plus and clear marketing plans makes Microsoft NERVOUS.

... They have 10 million game pass subs...

 

[ManaByte]

... They have 10 million game pass subs...

And they just added a million more with No Man Sky's release on GamePass.

 

[Nikana]

And they just added a million more with No Man Sky's release on GamePass.

Believe the story was the other way around. 1 million more no man's sky players because of game pass.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Yes, it's the future . You have to invest now to grow in the long term.I have ultimate and basically no need to buy games anymore .

This is why Gamepass is bad for gaming. It changes the spending habits for some people using the service

This wouldn't be sustainable for AAA gaming so I'll never subscribe to Gamepass again. I used it for 2 weeks if that

 

[ManaByte]

Believe the story was the other way around. 1 million more no man's sky players because of game pass.

Either way it kills the argument that no one knows about GamePass.

 

[oldergamer]

MS isn't hanging their hat on anything to be honest. They are testing the waters with xcloud.

 

[ManaByte]

MS isn't hanging their hat on anything to be honest. They are testing the waters with xcloud.

No they're absolutely hanging their hat on services.

That's why the boxed copies of Office went away in favor of an Office 365 subscription. Why pay $300 for Office when you can pay $10 a month to access the full office suite AND get a terabyte of cloud storage?

 

[JLB]

theres what? 40/50 titles that are undeniable commercial and critical success on the service? it will have day one all games of all 15 ms studios: halo infinite, hellblade 2, new rare game, forza motoorsport 8, forza horizon 5, new gears, new fable, new perfect dark, new obsidian AAA rpg, wasteland 3. And multiplayer, and 4 free additional games x month, and free xcloud... for 12 or so bucks?
and yet here we are debating the value of the thing.

 

[Nikana]

This is why Gamepass is bad for gaming. It changes the spending habits for some people using the service

This wouldn't be sustainable for AAA gaming so I'll never subscribe to Gamepass again. I used it for 2 weeks if that

Zero evidence to support this. In fact the evidence says otherwise as more people are playing more games and buying more.

 

[ManaByte]

theres what? 40/50 titles that are undeniable commercial and critical success on the service? it will have day one all games of all 15 ms studios: halo infinite, hellblade 2, new rare game, forza motoorsport 8, forza horizon 5, new gears, new fable, new perfect dark, new obsidian AAA rpg, wasteland 3. And multiplayer, and 4 free additional games x month, and free xcloud... for 12 or so bucks?
and yet here we are debating the value of the thing.

The PS5 is the first time in 25 years that I don't buy a PlayStation at launch and that's BECAUSE of GamePass. I can just get a Series X (which could still be cheaper than a PS5), and play all of the MS first party titles at launch via GamePass. I'd really only need to get any third-party titles I'd want to play. MUCH cheaper than buying a PS5 and then having to pay $60-70 for each launch title I wanted to play.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Zero evidence to support this. In fact the evidence says otherwise as more people are playing more games and buying more.

The evidence is the guy I just quoted who no longer buys games. It's the same reason why I canceled Gamepass in September and bought Gears 5 because I wanted to support traditional gaming not service gaming

 

[Nikana]

The evidence is the guy I just quoted who no longer buys games. It's the same reason why I canceled Gamepass in September and bought Gears 5 because I wanted to support traditional gaming not service gaming

Not buying a game but instead subscribing to a service to play the game doesn't magically make it bad for gaming because it's different.


What's best for gaming is more people playing more games.

 

[Flashy Wizard]

MS is in a great position to offer gaming at an affordable price to those who normally wouldn't be able to purchase such luxuries. Going all out on GP and Xcloud seems like a good idea as with most services around now, they employ the subscription model which gets the service provider a constant revenue stream. What effect that'll have on the future of gaming remains to be seen.

 

[ManaByte]

Not buying a game but instead subscribing to a service to play the game doesn't magically make it bad for gaming because it's different.


What's best for gaming is more people playing more games.

It makes it a bad thing because it's giving MS money, of course.

 

[Nikana]

It makes it a bad thing because it's giving MS money, of course.

Guess we need to stop buying android phones too then.

 

[synchronicity]

GamePass is great value, no doubt about it, but I'm still the type that doesn't want the Netflix type of gaming experience where things come and go. I have no issue with digital, but I want to have a library that is available to be played whenever I wish. So, I haven't subscribed. Personally, I prefer the steam/gog/etc. type of delivery method.

 

[NullZ3r0]

Love or hate it. These things are the future of gaming, and MS know it.

However, I think MS are getting ahead of themselves with Xcloud. We're still not quite ready (Maybe in five or so years).

I use Stadia and its very much ready. I've had no major issues since launch.

 

[Kerotan]

For themselves sure. They haven't games that sell day 1 like Sony and Nintendo so they've nothing to lose. It's good for them so now they can make cheaper GAAS type titles. But it's bad for the traditional console Gamer who let's be honest have been super satisfied by Nintendo and Sony's approach the last few years.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Not buying a game but instead subscribing to a service to play the game doesn't magically make it bad for gaming because it's different.


What's best for gaming is more people playing more games.

What's best for gaming is many more people supporting good games at $60 or $70 day one or we will start getting lesser quality if everything ends up on a service

 

[Nikana]

What's best for gaming is many more people supporting good games at $60 or $70 day one or we will start getting lesser quality if everything ends up on a service

Again, there's no evidence to support this. Did movies get worse when you could rent them? Did music get worse with Spotify?

 

[Iced Arcade]

Best thing to come out of this gen.


That post history, the dead Sea is missing ya bud

 

[Insert Disk Two]

The PS5 is the first time in 25 years that I don't buy a PlayStation at launch and that's BECAUSE of GamePass. I can just get a Series X (which could still be cheaper than a PS5), and play all of the MS first party titles at launch via GamePass. I'd really only need to get any third-party titles I'd want to play. MUCH cheaper than buying a PS5 and then having to pay $60-70 for each launch title I wanted to play.

I am in the same exact position like you. I owned all PlayStation systems so far. Having noticed that none of this generation's games I played were PS4 exclusives and with an Xbox Series X with GamePass I basically can stop buying games for a long while, it is very hard to resist.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Again, there's no evidence to support this. Did movies get worse when you could rent them? Did music get worse with Spotify?

Netflix has a lot more filler and is in major debt. I don't wanna see gaming companies in the same situation

 

[Nikana]

Netflix has a lot more filler and is in major debt. I don't wanna see gaming companies in the same situation

Debt is not an automatic indication of failure. There's a reason Netflix stock is worth $492 a share.

And the studios don't take the risk, the licensee takes the risk, in this case Microsoft.

And the game market is already packed with filler content. Open up steam, Xbox store, Nintendo store, or PlayStation store and tell me how many of those games you actually want to play or have heard of.

 

[teezzy]

I love Game Pass in theory. Especially as someone who owns both PC and Xbox. Same library across both devices.

In practice though, I don't play those titles as much as the ones I actually own, and even then - actualy owning them still prevails - even if in digital form.

Still - it's a nice price if you don't have a lot of Steam games or physical Xbox discs.

 

[Bryank75]

Gamepass works for Xbox... games like Yakuza and many others just don't sell on Xbox and putting it on a rental service at least gets the publisher a little extra cash.

The problem is, that it cuts into sales as we can see above from comments.... people do not buy games due to gamespass.

This is a strategy that can easily snowball, leading to developers going either timed or fully exclusive to PlayStation until it makes sense to go to gamepass.

We already see this with 2 Bethesda games.... Ghostwire and Deathloop going timed exclsuive cause they know the mentality on Xbox will be... 'oh this looks like it will be on game pass eventually'.

That's fine for now but what happens when Monster Hunter and tens of other games decide not to come to Xbox for years or ever?

Also streaming is not a longterm solution and not comparable to local / hardware gaming as hardware will always be pushing technologically forward and requiring more data going much faster without compression. This can only be done locally... the more raytracing, high quality textures and higher frames.... the less practical streaming becomes.

We have also seen that things like Covid can put massive pressure on the infrastructure and you do not want to be left without access to your games in such a circumstance..... the whole idea is fundamentally flawed and will be a disaster.

 

[Schmick]

Debt is not an automatic indication of failure. There's a reason Netflix stock is worth $492 a share.

And the studios don't take the risk, the licensee takes the risk, in this case Microsoft.

And the game market is already packed with filler content. Open up steam, Xbox store, Nintendo store, or PlayStation store and tell me how many of those games you actually want to play or have heard of.

Cant see why any gamer would be worried about the financials. Its for Microsoft to worry about. And besides does anyone think that developers/publishers are forced to sign up. I think its a phenomena that only started since the beginning of Game Pass.

10,000,000 subscribers @ $9.99 = $99,900,000 a month! Which developer would not want a piece of that!
Or even if we half $9.99 to take into account subscribers paying less than that, thats still $50,000,000 a month! $600,000,000 a year!

 

[Nikana]

Cant see why any gamer would be worried about the financials. Its for Microsoft to worry about. And besides does anyone think that developers/publishers are forced to sign up. I think its a phenomena that only started since the beginning of Game Pass.

10,000,000 subscribers @ $9.99 = $99,900,000 a month! Which developer would not want a piece of that!
Or even if we half $9.99 to take into account subscribers paying less than that, thats still $50,000,000 a month! $600,000,000 a year!

The subscription model is still relatively new and a lot of people still don't understand it but there's a reason so many companies are doing it. We have everyday essentials like food using it now. There's a reason for it.

 

[The Alien]

I havent seen a "GamePass Concern" thread in a bit.

Microsoft, and anyone using GamePass, have always said "it's the best VALUE in gaming".

Im not sure what the point on hardware waa. While OPs assumption that the majority of people on GamePass are running "potato spec PCs" or even an XBox S (compare to an X) may be true, I'd argue the vast, vast majority of people dont give a shit. I do, but most dont. Also, with the Series X coming out, these experiences wont suffer.

 

[MrS]

GamePass is working for them so good luck to them. They've had to diversify their offering and now they have a great product that makes them a shit ton of cash. Other platform holders should be innovating similarly. The value proposition is great when you consider how many games you'll get to play in a year for £120. The value will improve further when they add Xcloud to the mix. I think they're correct to be hanging their hat on GP.

 

[Bryank75]

Xbox's aim was always to take ownership of games away from the consumer.....

Back in 2013 they went all in with always online DRM and check-ins.

Now they have a different tack..... get people off buying games and onto Gamepass and Xcloud services (pretty much always online gaming.

Once they have converted all their 40 Million customer sand hwatever they think they can take from PC, Nintendo or PlayStation.... they will then lock them into subscription gaming and gradually increase the price. Game quality will not matter (Xbox's weakness) and they can perpetually harvest the players without doing too much.

No more Xbox consoles, sell off or shut down most of the studios and cruise.

 

[Schmick]

Gamepass works for Xbox... games like Yakuza and many others just don't sell on Xbox and putting it on a rental service at least gets the publisher a little extra cash.

The problem is, that it cuts into sales as we can see above from comments.... people do not buy games due to gamespass.

This is a strategy that can easily snowball, leading to developers going either timed or fully exclusive to PlayStation until it makes sense to go to gamepass.

We already see this with 2 Bethesda games.... Ghostwire and Deathloop going timed exclsuive cause they know the mentality on Xbox will be... 'oh this looks like it will be on game pass eventually'.

That's fine for now but what happens when Monster Hunter and tens of other games decide not to come to Xbox for years or ever?

Also streaming is not a longterm solution and not comparable to local / hardware gaming as hardware will always be pushing technologically forward and requiring more data going much faster without compression. This can only be done locally... the more raytracing, high quality textures and higher frames.... the less practical streaming becomes.

We have also seen that things like Covid can put massive pressure on the infrastructure and you do not want to be left without access to your games in such a circumstance..... the whole idea is fundamentally flawed and will be a disaster.

Why would raytracing and high quality textures negatively affect streaming?

 

[Bryank75]

Why would raytracing and high quality textures negatively affect streaming?

Because it all takes bandwidth, all that data has to be compressed and sent back and forth resulting in massive bandwidth usage. The more demanding techniques and higher detail, the bigger it gets.

You see netflix and all other streaming services had to lower their quality during this pandemic... same shit.

 

[Amiga]

I've tried GP and while its cool and all, is it really that amazing that MS should put all their focus on it? Sure, it has 300 games on there but they are mostly older titles or games that kinda bombed. MS's day one exclusives are obviously the main draw here but its not like MS is known for their amazing exclusives either.

GP also has a major draw back when it comes to next gen gaming. We are at the dawn of a new console generation and everybody is expecting MS and Sony to blow us away with amazing next gen experiences, experiences that'll require next gen hardware. How is MS supposed to show us those games when 99% of the GP users are running potato spec pc's and the whole point of GP is to not exclude anyone?

MS own servers so it costs them almost nothing. and adds value to few unused could clusters until somebody rents those servers and then MS goes to make new servers with xCloud until somebody rents them or MS keeps them if they do start to bring in significant revenue.

 

[Schmick]

Because it all takes bandwidth, all that data has to be compressed and sent back and forth resulting in massive bandwidth usage. The more demanding techniques and higher detail, the bigger it gets.

You see netflix and all other streaming services had to lower their quality during this pandemic... same shit.

You and I seem to have different understanding of streaming. Its compressed video that is sent to the gamer whilst the gamer provides the input (the controller). Resolution is the factor here.

 

[Nikana]

You and I seem to have different understanding of streaming. Its compressed video that is sent to the gamer whilst the gamer provides the input (the controller). Resolution is the factor here.

In theory the compressed video bit rate would need to increase as more effects are added to an image to keep it looking clean. But this isn't going to be a radical difference. If you are keeping the resolution the same, the difference in bandwidth is minimal.

 

[wolffy71]

The argument that gp stunts sales is silly. If ANY dev decides that gp will hurt their sales they will simply not put their game on gp. The truth is the service is shown to do the opposite, it increases revenue as we have seen a few devs mention already. And if that stops they will stop utilizing the option. Pretty simple really if dont try to overcomplicate things to attempt to make some nonsensical poin decs want to use it, they do. If not, they won't.

 

[jshackles]

Once they have converted all their 40 Million customer sand hwatever they think they can take from PC, Nintendo or PlayStation.... they will then lock them into subscription gaming and gradually increase the price. Game quality will not matter (Xbox's weakness) and they can perpetually harvest the players without doing too much.

Your concern only makes sense in a vacuum where Sony, Nintendo, Steam, Epic, Google, Apple, and others don't exist. Gamers are going to find the best value for their money. If Microsoft gradually increases the price of Game Pass subscriptions to $50/month (for example) people will be much less likely to stay subscribed and will instead spend that money in other ecosystems. One thing that Microsoft figured out this gen, is that most gamers have very little brand loyalty.

 

[haveagood1]

Remember when people thought Microsoft was crazy turning Office into a subscription service.

 

[Nikana]

Your concern only makes sense in a vacuum where Sony, Nintendo, Steam, Epic, Google, Apple, and others don't exist. Gamers are going to find the best value for their money. If Microsoft gradually increases the price of Game Pass subscriptions to $50/month (for example) people will be much less likely to stay subscribed and will instead spend that money in other ecosystems. One thing that Microsoft figured out this gen, is that most gamers have very little brand loyalty.

American consumers especially will go to the lowest bidder. Increasing prices simply because you can doesn't benefit you long term.

The value is most prevailing and if you remove that you might as well tell subscribers to leave

 

[Ymir]

I've tried GP and while its cool and all, is it really that amazing that MS should put all their focus on it? Sure, it has 300 games on there but they are mostly older titles or games that kinda bombed. MS's day one exclusives are obviously the main draw here but its not like MS is known for their amazing exclusives either.

GP also has a major draw back when it comes to next gen gaming. We are at the dawn of a new console generation and everybody is expecting MS and Sony to blow us away with amazing next gen experiences, experiences that'll require next gen hardware. How is MS supposed to show us those games when 99% of the GP users are running potato spec pc's and the whole point of GP is to not exclude anyone?

None of this post makes sense. Do you not use Netflix and other streaming services because there's crappy movies on it as well as more popular movies?

Also, only thing game pass does is make games free when you have a sub. That's it. Not sure how that means games next gen will look unimpressive when that has nothing to do with whether or not you subscribe to a subscription service that lets you play a selection of games for free.

 

[Schmick]

Xbox's aim was always to take ownership of games away from the consumer.....

Back in 2013 they went all in with always online DRM and check-ins.

Now they have a different tack..... get people off buying games and onto Gamepass and Xcloud services (pretty much always online gaming.

Once they have converted all their 40 Million customer sand hwatever they think they can take from PC, Nintendo or PlayStation.... they will then lock them into subscription gaming and gradually increase the price. Game quality will not matter (Xbox's weakness) and they can perpetually harvest the players without doing too much.

No more Xbox consoles, sell off or shut down most of the studios and cruise.

Sorry but this just seems like a conspiracy theory that you concocted trying to influence other gamers.

 

[deriks]

Yes

Not everyone can afford new games on launch date, also, stores are weird with prices overall. GamePass is a thing for those guys who just wanna try in first place - and maybe not even finishing the game, but that's ok. While Xcloud is more of a "pick and go" thing, which you can select some games that are not that deep into lore

Can you imagine getting into a hotel and playing Untitled Goose Game on your phone before sleeping with no problems? That's the dream

 

[pasterpl]

What's best for gaming is many more people supporting good games at $60 or $70 day one or we will start getting lesser quality if everything ends up on a service

you know, you can buy games that are on game pass, if you like a game nothing stops you from supporting creators and paying full price