Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Game preservation is an important thing. The need to own them is a different argument than making sure they are lost in time due to distribution models.
Should MS really hang their hat on Game Pass and Xcloud?
- Thread starter MrMiyagi
- Start date
Game preservation is an important thing. The need to own them is a different argument than making sure they are lost in time due to distribution models.
Of course Series X can and will take advantage of SSD and Ray Tracing - but just like pc - they will always have to make sure the games will still look and play on par on platforms without SSD and a RTX gpu. Which means something like the SSD can only really be used for faster loading on Series X, while ps5 games can use it for actual core level and game design - as shown with the world switching in Ratchet & Clank. Like I said, Sony has to show us a lot more why they're convinced SSD is such a game changer but it would be weird if HZW, or most of their AAA exclusive, will not showcase it in one way or another.
We'll see about Halo Infinite but if its true what they're saying and it will be 4k/120fps on Series X, then I don't see how it will be a completely different experience than the Xone version running in 30fps and 900p.
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Again...simply...not...true... You can say it as many times as you want, but that doesn't make it true. Also called it that you would use R&C as an example and then completely disreguard the argument against it.
Also if you are saying that a 30 FPS game plays the same as a game at 120 FPS you are sorely mistaken. If you're saying that the design will be compromised by this as well, again, simply not true. Its up to the developer to decide this.
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UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Is it the right thing to do? Yes.
MS is too far behind Sony to win the console game, and it's not going to exist long term anyways. They were bleeding money and the Xbox division was close to being shuttered before this.
Services is the way of the future. In gaming, music, movies and all other consumption media.
MS is too far behind Sony to win the console game, and it's not going to exist long term anyways. They were bleeding money and the Xbox division was close to being shuttered before this.
Services is the way of the future. In gaming, music, movies and all other consumption media.
No they weren't.
cerealbuster
Member
Netflix always made profit?
2B profit last year, and over the last then 10 years it was like 0.5 and grew. Same with their revenue they made 20 billion revenue last year. Like they never had negative profits if I see that even right. Also of course they have a debt, with debt you pay less taxes. Also I really can't see the took years to make any profit when they did it since day1 and it was always at least in the 0.xxx billion range.
Do I think that this is not good and game devs will go more and more to Gaas + micro transactions ? Yes absolutely! Do I also think that sometimes Gaas is actually great? Yes I do.
Generally I wish we would go away from those Triple A market and go to more AA with more frequent releases. It's not like there are games that are critically received well, sell well, while also beeing AA don't exist.
Netflix Gross Profit 2010-2025 | NFLX
Netflix annual/quarterly gross profit history and growth rate from 2010 to 2025. Gross profit can be defined as the profit a company makes after deducting the variable costs directly associated with making and selling its products or providing its services. <ul...
www.macrotrends.net
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
The traditional console model is dying, so it makes perfect sense. Everything is moving to a service model and MS is ahead of the pack by leagues.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Netflix always made profit?
2B profit last year, and over the last then 10 years it was like 0.5 and grew. Same with their revenue they made 20 billion revenue last year. Like they never had negative profits if I see that even right. Also of course they have a debt, with debt you pay less taxes. Also I really can't see the took years to make any profit when they did it since day1 and it was always at least in the 0.xxx billion range.
Do I think that this is not good and game devs will go more and more to Gaas + micro transactions ? Yes absolutely! Do I also think that sometimes Gaas is actually great? Yes I do.
Generally I wish we would go away from those Triple A market and go to more AA with more frequent releases. It's not like there are games that are critically received well, sell well, while also beeing AA don't exist.
Netflix Gross Profit 2010-2025 | NFLX
Netflix annual/quarterly gross profit history and growth rate from 2010 to 2025. Gross profit can be defined as the profit a company makes after deducting the variable costs directly associated with making and selling its products or providing its services. <ul...
They do indeed have a positive operating margin which is why the debt really isn't a concern at this point. Debt does not automatically mean its bad.
Of course I am using R&C when Sony hasn't showed us much. But even that 1 game already proves that Sony can have games that simply wouldn't work on last gen consoles. Sure, they could do it with 30 seconds loading screens on the ps4, but then it wouldn't make sense to put the mechanic in the game in the first place. It would have been a completely different game.
This whole "all inclusive' strategy with GP practically means that Series X won't be able to do much more with the Series X hardware than run current gen games in 4k/60- or even 120 fps. Its why that's all they've been taking about and why we probably need to watch the 20/20 stream in 4k/60fps to notice the difference between current and next gen games.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
It's amazing how much you refuse to listen and comprehend how games are actually made while literally contradicting yourself.
I tried. Have a good one.
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
I'm guessing you're a Dev. Like, you actually work in the games industry?
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Dude? Where are you getting this bogus information?? You are patently wrong! 4 more days... Alls I'm sayin...
TBiddy
Member
just report and move on.
lastmessiah
Member
We already have three confirmed titles that won't run on current gen: The Medium, Scorn, and Flight Simulator. So the "holding back next gen" argument is dead as dust. Time to move on.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Flight sim is cross gen. Just am FYI.
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lastmessiah
Member
You're right, but I would argue that the experience would be so scaled back that it is practically not the same simulator.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Tough to say until we see the ports.(see what I did there)
The PC version suggests a SSD.
lastmessiah
Member
Everyone who games on PC knows that recommenced or ideal specs really means minimum specs for an enjoyable experience. "Minimum specs" means you can't really run it.
bUt ThE XbOneE iS HoLdInG BaCk eVeRYoNe!
Self High Five
Member
The fact that you posted this with no reasoning to back it up suggests you're projecting more than anything. If third parties can get millions of Xbox gamers to pay full prices (now $70 USD) for their games they're not going to piss that away because some random dude on a message board really likes gamepass.
Your "own fanboi mentality" isn't prioritized over basic math, sorry.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
No they weren't what? Calling to shutter the Xbox division? It may be that you don't follow business news and therefore didn't know about it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the reality.
Check this out or Bill Gates discussing it here. There's also more information Here.
Why did you link to the front page of the Washington Post.
And Gate hasn't had any say in MS for years. He's too busy being Doctor Evil.
MarkMe2525
Banned
Well I do, so having the option to utilize it is nothing but a win. I just don't see how this could be contrived into a fault. Maybe that wasn't your point, but then I don't understand the original comment. Btw I'm in deep south Mississippi and we aren't known for having fantastic technical infrastructure.
MarkMe2525
Banned
So you use a known inferior product. (I have used psnow as well and it is indeed inferior on the latency) and use that experience to draw conclusions on a competing completely built from scratch product. Good luck with that.
Granted you could be far away from a data center and that would cause it to be less than ideal but that's not the point. For one, I can use it as intended and it's awesome. I got to put way too much time into the witness last night on my damn phone in bed while my daughter hogged the TV on psvr. Secondly, it's not supposed to be or marketed as a console replacement, it is a supplemental gaming service at the moment.
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MarkMe2525
Banned
just imagine what's going to go through some of these people's heads when they have to buy a house or get a car loan.
MarkMe2525
Banned
Nonsense? Let's try a thought expirement shall we? Let's pretend psnow has more data centers than xcloud. Now let's pretend I played it and had a bad experience. WTF DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH XCLOUD!!!!That could easily apply to you and PSNow.
Ahh such nonsense
Maybe you misread my point or I was not clear so I'll back up a little, my point was not to bash psnow but to point out that dismissing xcloud because of his experience with a completely different service a terrible argument for its value.
That argument is the equivalent of bashing a Toyota while never driving one because you drove a Ford once and didn't like it. So make the argument all you want, it's still irrelevant and unhelpful.
P.s. sorry everyone for the wall of posts I have here. I need to get better at multiquoting.
P.s.s I enjoyed where you highlighted my statement but stopped right before I literally said "but that's not the point", then frame your response as if that was the point!!! Did you black out in the middle of the sentence?
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Blond
Banned
It'll take off with a particular group, I think. Those who really really want to play those 1 or 2 games a year but don't want to invest in a console or do so really, really late in a console after price drops + revisions. Could also very well be a backdoor to turn them into earl(ier)y adopters so they can "see what they're missing"
Explosive Zombie
Banned
??? You have personal experience with xCloud gaming?
MarkMe2525
Banned
Yes since April
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Kagey K
Banned
Lots of ppl do. It's been available to all Xbox insiders for months now.
Killer Sakoman
Member
The model of Game Pass is not sustainable for AAA games. Many AAA games sell 2 to 3 million copies at $60 don't make any meaningful returns.
Ms made game pass when loot boxes were on the rise and thought that console gaming will become lootboxes fest. A subscription service would be good to drag people for an excellent entry price to games. Then suck the fuckers dry.
ANyway, the future of game pass will be different subscription tiers of something like silver, gold, and platinum packages. Or AAA will be discounted for GP subscribers. They won't be day one free on game pass.
Ms made game pass when loot boxes were on the rise and thought that console gaming will become lootboxes fest. A subscription service would be good to drag people for an excellent entry price to games. Then suck the fuckers dry.
ANyway, the future of game pass will be different subscription tiers of something like silver, gold, and platinum packages. Or AAA will be discounted for GP subscribers. They won't be day one free on game pass.
Isn't gamespass over 2 years old? From experience the service is only getting better and better. When entering a new generation with more expensive games on the horizon (so we've been told) surely it's value will only grow?
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Legit didn't know that, thought it was something on the way. Is it factually superior to the streaming on PSNow?
Because developers realize they could nickel and dime people with poor impulse control, and drain them of hundreds of not thousands of dollars on top of their incomplete $60 dollar purchase.
Don't you find it disturbing that you are defending awful businesses practices like micro transactions in the name of it being "the future" and not of it actually being what is best for the consumer?
I'm referring to your experience with psNow and Latency.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Where did I defend it? You made a claim that people buying games at "full price" is best for the industry bases on this notion that the market will change for the worse due to a subscription when the market already inherited revenue sources that the market doesn't like. So your claim doesn't make a lot of sense.
Kagey K
Banned
I haven't used PSNow so I can't factually say, but XCloud performs better then I expected.
I expected it to only be useful with turn based RPGs and slower paced games, but after playing a bunch of games across a variety of genres I am pleasantly surprised by it.
I often find myself playing games in bed with my phone attached to my controller while watching stuff with the gf.
One caveat to that is that you have to be connected to the 5ghz band on your wifi and not the 2.4, so if you don't have a dual band router your experience will be bad. (At least for me this was the case, 2.4 was too unstable.)
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Hezekiah
Banned
I don't see how they arent losing a ton of money on the service, and will continue to do so for years to come - especially as you say with the increasing cost of game development (I read somewhere that Gears 5 have a budget of over $100m and it barely sold due to GamePass).
Most people I know are paying a few quid per month for it so I wonder how long before it gets bumped up to ~£15 a month. Maybe at that point Sony and Nintendo will consider their own equivalents, but they both make a killing on first-party content and have loyal fanbases and strong branding so maybe not.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Here's the post article. Now you know.
MarkMe2525
Banned
Why? Why are you concerned with my experience with psnow and latency? My whole point is that his (or mine for that matter) experience with psnow has nothing to do with xcloud.
He stated Psnow didn't work well for him so MS should have waited 3-5 years to launch xcloud. I called bollocks as xcloud works well for me and for many other people. That was the point I was refuting.
What point are you refuting? My experience with psnow? Is that what is nonsense?
Le sigh. Because you deemed psNow an inferior service, even though you could have the same issue with data centers as you pointed out. You then acted as if xcloud is somehow immune from this issue, based off of....nothing but your anecdotal experience.
xcloud works for you....and? Maybe psNow works great for me but awful for you. Does that now magically make psNow the superior service?
MarkMe2525
Banned
Dude... You're completely missing the point. I'm aware of data centers and how distance effects latency hence why I mentioned that could possibly be his issue. At no time did I say I was immune from the laws of physics. What I do know is that MS has more data centers. Sony uses 15 with 37 access points vs azures 160+. So when I refer to the PlayStation now as the inferior streaming platform I'm speaking facts. No magic about it.
We are literally saying the same thing. That you can't judge one service based off the experience with another. It's never productive when you cherry pick a throwaway comment which I literally stated didn't matter in this scenario and try to turn it around like I'm talking out of my ass.
Btw like I mentioned twice now, my goal was not to bash Sony or PlayStation now. I've used PlayStation now and it's fine. Just because it's not on as a robust Network does not make it bad.
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Tulipanzo
Member
Pretty much, these services are constructed to hemorrage money until they're the last service left standing. This isn't to comment on the quality of it, just it's long-term viability, which MS (and to a lesser degree Sony with PSNow) haven't been that open about.
On your second point, I know several people that got years of the service for 1$ by converting Gold time. I guess that's fine, but I'm imagining if it'd be worth it for say, Sony, to lose all my first-party purchases in exchange for some PS+ top-up (a service I was going to renew anyway). I'd imagine that's part of why they aren't offering yearly gold anymore.
Tulipanzo
Member
Halo Infinite's budget is estimated at around $500 million. That's the budget for the first 7 seasons of game of thrones.
That's an extreme example, but it's pretty well known that games are more expensive than TV production, and their distribution model also make them harder for subscriber retention.
You're just assuming high operating margins, providing no evidence at all or comparison to other services. This is fairly useless, and it's just a fanboy tactic. It's especially pointless considering I think GP is good value, and probably the most interesting thing MS has, even if they lose money (which they have plenty of) on it.
CuteFaceJay
Member
It's a good deal. Heck I wonder if Steam would bother doing something like this in the future.
12Dannu123
Member
I agreed, these types of services' business models are a 'last man' standing model. The longer you can sustain the losses, the better you're position to dominate the market. It's exactly how Spotify, Netflix, Office 365 and many other subscription services operate.
If Sony, Nintendo get into the market, they will have to hemorrhage A LOT of money to even gain market or make a profit. Microsoft's aggressive loss leading model of Game Pass, makes it harder for Sony and Nintendo to sustain such a service.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Its a fanboy tactic to say that you dont know the financials of a of service when you dont know them? Oh please do tell how that makes sense.
I never once said they (microsoft) have a high operating margin with GP. Ever. You are the only running around claiming things with zero sources, like you usually do I might add, and then try to say I am the one thats making shit up. You also claim Netflix is the best comparison as they are the market leader, go on to claim that them being in debt shows that Microsoft must be in a similar situation even though Netflix has a positive operating margin and we know zero of Microsoft's GP financials.
Your claim that its "pretty well known" that games are more expensive also is not true. The average TV episode price is going up, with some shows, including the last season of Game of Thrones, costing around 15 to 25 million per episode. Resulting in a budget of 150 million minimum per season. While AAA games average anywhere from 15-150 million. So again, it depends on the game, like I originally said.
How much money 'Game of Thrones' episodes cost to make in the final season, and throughout the series
HBO's "Game of Thrones" has a hefty price tag, ranging from $6 million when the show first started to over twice that now.
www.businessinsider.com
Disney and Apple are pushing us into the era of the $25 million TV episode
Planned Disney+ shows based on Marvel movies would be the most expensive television ever made—by a lot.
qz.com
SO kindly remove your dumb fanboy comments.
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