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[Dr.Acula]

Should Judge have written the show in such a way that Richards first order of business was hiring women to meet some sort of quota?

Oh wow, that would be great if that was the se2 premiere.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I'm kind of glad there's no token female in the show.

There is a token female in the show though. And she sucks.

 

[Linius]

Oh wow, that would be great if that was the se2 premiere.

If they rate women by attractiveness in order to hire them we can at least add sexism to the list.

 

[Shaneus]

Yeah this stuff is pretty ridiculous. Judge is making the show he finds funny. He isn't trying to make any statement here and he isn't obligated to do anything.I feel that just because they aren't including a lot of woman on the show doesn't mean it's deliberate sexism. And if it that's hindering someone's enjoyment for the show then I feel bad for you son. I got 99 problems etc.

#SexistRapReference

For real though. I just don't like how everything has to be so overanalyzed, especially a show as purposely silly as this one. I'm kind of glad there's no token female in the show. I feel that if you don't have a good idea for something then it's best to leave it out rather than to shoehorn it in to appease some people. I'd find the latter more offensive than omitting a female character.

I wonder, did Entourage go through the same over-analysis due to the lack of female representation?

 

[royalan]

I wonder, did Entourage go through the same over-analysis due to the lack of female representation?

Well, let's not go there. Entourage traded in being a decent show for being a complete male power fantasy and celeb wankathon after season 2.

Silicon Valley has bigger problems if it's in company with Entourage.

 

[GorillaJu]

The Richard and Monica thing was hinted at once or twice before the finale.



There's a couple of them going around
The Boring Sexism of HBO's 'Silicon Valley'

The junkee one almost made me feel offended. sexist, racist, it's everything-ist!

Can easily sum up the contents of those blog posts to go together with the inane "Why didn't GTA5 have a female protagonist?!" complaints. The show isn't what I wanted it to be, therefore it's a missed opportunity to please me and people like me who hold similar opinions.

It's not brilliant by any means. The satire is too straight forward and obvious and doesn't immediately stick to your conscience the same way Office Space did. That doesn't stop it from being hilarious at times and a good show worth watching, overall.

 

[amnesiac]

The show definitely has some flaws, but after watching the finale, I'm really excited to see more. Hopefully it doesn't get cancelled. (I don't know if HBO does that often).

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

There is a token female in the show though. And she sucks.

She's barely on the show though. She appears for like 5 mins total the entire season.

 

[GorillaJu]

There is a token female in the show though. And she sucks.

She doesn't suck, at least not within the narrative—she's the most capable person of any the main characters who get screen time in every episode. She's organized, savvy, intelligent, has an eye for business (she had faith in Richard even when Peter Gregory doubted him).

You could say that she doesn't have the quirks and characteristics that make the other characters so likable, which is a fine critique. But she definitely doesn't suck.

 

[potam]

I'm so glad I live in modern society, where we can't have nice things without them devolving into a gender study.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

She doesn't suck, at least not within the narrative—she's the most capable person of any the main characters who get screen time in every episode. She's organized, savvy, intelligent, has an eye for business (she had faith in Richard even when Peter Gregory doubted him).

You could say that she doesn't have the quirks and characteristics that make the other characters so likable, which is a fine critique. But she definitely doesn't suck.

As the article says, she's basically a variation of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl. She's beautiful, intelligent, positive, supporting, and she exists solely to help "the protagonist achieve happiness without ever seeking any independent goals herself".

I'm so glad I live in modern society, where we can't have nice things without them devolving into a gender study.

If you don't want to participate in the gender discussion, then don't. But don't whine when people talk about a subject that either doesn't interest you or makes you uncomfortable.

Also,

devolving into a gender study

Devolving. We've gone from "OMG funny jerk off scene!!" to talking about satire, gender, race, and sexuality, and yet that's somehow a devolution of the conversation?

 

[Shaneus]

Well, let's not go there. Entourage traded in being a decent show for being a complete male power fantasy and celeb wankathon after season 2.

Silicon Valley has bigger problems if it's in company with Entourage.

Can't disagree with you there. I was just trying to find the nearest parallel. Should've tried a little harder

She doesn't suck, at least not within the narrative—she's the most capable person of any the main characters who get screen time in every episode. She's organized, savvy, intelligent, has an eye for business (she had faith in Richard even when Peter Gregory doubted him).

You could say that she doesn't have the quirks and characteristics that make the other characters so likable, which is a fine critique. But she definitely doesn't suck.

But rest assured, if she had quirks there'd likely be just as much vitriol about how the only significant female character is a stereotype of such-and-such.

 

[potam]

As the article says, she's basically a variation of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl. She's beautiful, intelligent, positive, supporting, and she exists solely to help "the protagonist achieve happiness without ever seeking any independent goals herself".



If you don't want to participate in the gender discussion, then don't. But don't whine when people talk about a subject that either doesn't interest you or makes you uncomfortable.

Also,



Devolving. We've gone from "OMG funny jerk off scene!!" to talking about satire, gender, race, and sexuality, and yet that's somehow a devolution of the conversation?

I come into this thread because the show is entertaining and funny. That, however, is no longer enough for some people, and it has to become a fucking social crusade. God forbid a show about a bunch of fucking socially inept dudes in the tech industry isn't swarming with women.

I'd really like to go watch The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants right now to calm down, but it would just make my blood boil that there are no strong male leads! Ugh!

 

[GorillaJu]

As the article says, she's basically a variation of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl. She's beautiful, intelligent, positive, supporting, and she exists solely to help "the protagonist achieve happiness without ever seeking any independent goals herself".

She has her independent goals, but the show isn't about her so we don't follow her individual storyline. We only get Richard's story, so essentially every character is written to help him reach his goals, from a purely narrative perspective.

She's portrayed as busy and unavailable for much of the show. Enigmatic, even. When she actively helps the group (a rarity), she does what Jared stayed up all night doing in the blink of an eye. She shows up out of the fog on occasion to save the group's ass. Like a sexy Gandalf.

Her life doesn't hinge on Richard's success, and of all the main characters, she's the only one who you can be absolutely certain would continue to continue working and being successful in her life, had the Disrupt conference gone belly-up for PP.

And she isn't beautiful enough to make the claim that she's just used as a token hot girl. I mean she is beautiful by normal standards, but she doesn't look like a Victoria's Secret model, and she's a far cry from plastic blonde beauties we normally get on TV.

No she's not an extremely deep character. She's a stereotype... But it's a Mike Judge show. Everyone is a caricature here.

 

[oatmeal]

Why not just try and enjoy something for what it is, rather than what others wish it were?

 

[Cornballer]

If you disagree with some of the criticism being leveled at the show, please articulate your specific concerns with a well-formed argument. The other option would be to ignore the discussion and talk about something else related to the show. However, it isn't ok to complain about that discussion happening in this thread. If you have any questions, feel free to send me a PM. Let's try to stay on track here. Thank you.

 

[Cornballer]

A few more articles from the last few days:

- National Post: The real Silicon Valley: What do tech-industry insiders think of Mike Judge’s new HBO series?
- Collider on S1 and the finale
- Variety: Culture Drives Laughs in Today’s TV Comedy

 

[Nitsuj23]

As the article says, she's basically a variation of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl. She's beautiful, intelligent, positive, supporting, and she exists solely to help "the protagonist achieve happiness without ever seeking any independent goals herself".



If you don't want to participate in the gender discussion, then don't. But don't whine when people talk about a subject that either doesn't interest you or makes you uncomfortable.

Also,



Devolving. We've gone from "OMG funny jerk off scene!!" to talking about satire, gender, race, and sexuality, and yet that's somehow a devolution of the conversation?

Is that considered whining? Are you sure they're necessarily not interested or uncomfortable? Devolve may not have been the best word, but the conversation has evolved from conversation about tangible facts in the show to that of gender views.

I think it's incredibly irresponsible to say the show creators intended to play into or support or even recognize gender roles in the creation of the show. Would you say sometimes people that get "up in arms" over gender issues seek to find problems where there are none? Someone above gave their view of the female assistant's role in the story fairly well. She, like all other male characters, are there to help the main protagonist who happens to be male.

Are you equally as upset that Jared's only role in the show is to serve Richard? If he was a female, I'm almost certain you'd have a problem. See what I mean by create issues where there are none? I'm assuming it would be an issue if Jared was female and the current assistant was male... because it's still a female helping a male. Sometimes I think the only way to make people like you happy is having a female lead role. Is that what it takes? Or just greater than 50% of the cast to be female? What is the criteria that suggests creators are NOT considerate of gender? Did you know the same actress who portrays the assistant was also in "She's the Man"? What do you think about that title?

Why must everything be about gender tropes/roles/stereotypes/whatever? Sometimes things are intentional and sometimes people try to create issues where there absolutely do not exist. Please try to differentiate.

 

[Blackhead]

She has her independent goals, but the show isn't about her so we don't follow her individual storyline. We only get Richard's story, so essentially every character is written to help him reach his goals, from a purely narrative perspective.

She's portrayed as busy and unavailable for much of the show. Enigmatic, even. When she actively helps the group (a rarity), she does what Jared stayed up all night doing in the blink of an eye. She shows up out of the fog on occasion to save the group's ass. Like a sexy Gandalf.

Her life doesn't hinge on Richard's success, and of all the main characters, she's the only one who you can be absolutely certain would continue to continue working and being successful in her life, had the Disrupt conference gone belly-up for PP.

And she isn't beautiful enough to make the claim that she's just used as a token hot girl. I mean she is beautiful by normal standards, but she doesn't look like a Victoria's Secret model, and she's a far cry from plastic blonde beauties we normally get on TV.

No she's not an extremely deep character. She's a stereotype... But it's a Mike Judge show. Everyone is a caricature here.

She's a secretary for Peter Gregory and her life revolves around being at his beck and call catering to his every need. She also said she invested 10% of her salary in Richard's company. Can you list her independent goals that were mentioned this past season?

 

[Nitsuj23]

She's a secretary for Peter Gregory and her life revolves around being at his beck and call catering to his every need. She also said she invested 10% of her salary in Richard's company. Can you list her independent goals that were mentioned this past season?

Oh, idk, could you say similar to the goals of a large number of Americans? Have a decent work-life balance, invest in her future, seek a significant other, etc.?

Do you want a spin off show that follows her when she's not at work? She is an assistant in Silicon Valley. I really don't know what you expect?! This stuff baffles me.

What other character, other than the main character, are we given their specific goals?

Edit: Have you seen advertisements/brochures from large companies and how they try to cater to gender/race? One example I've seen recently is a Microsoft brochure where there's a white guy, Asian girl, and black guy all huddled around a laptop. You can't get help but get the feeling that the pseudo-diversity in that brochure was in place purely to avoid criticism. In a brochure that almost makes sense to me, but when you're creating a show, it helps to have some realism. Young white dudes are all over Silicon Valley. Mike Judge created his show entitled "Silicon Valley" to factually represent Silicon Valley in a comedic light - and portraying a realistic demographic should not be interpreted as a slight at women. IF ANYTHING, shouldn't feminist and the like be offended if the creator didn't accurately reflect the environment just to please a certain group of people? Why not have more black peope, hispanic people, asian people, whatever other type of person, etc.? Because he is accurately reflecting the area. No more, no less. I see in your post history you talk about the strength of the female characters in Big Bang Theory. Would you conclude they're able to have stronger female characters because, oh I don't know, they don't try to model their fictional world after reality AT ALL. I wish people would read more into context before getting so up in arms about gender. Very frustrating.

 

[dave is ok]

This is the same exact "controversy" people were making over GIRLS a few months ago.

 

[Blackhead]

I see in your post history you talk about the strength of the female characters in Big Bang Theory. Would you conclude they're able to have stronger female characters because, oh I don't know, they don't try to model their fictional world after reality AT ALL. I wish people would read more into context before getting so up in arms about gender. Very frustrating.

I don't think you know what context means and I'm not even sure you've read the articles we're discussing. Most of your points have been covered there.

 

[Nitsuj23]

I don't think you know what context means and I'm not even sure you've read the articles we're discussing. Most of your points have been covered there.

con·text
ˈkänˌtekst
noun
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

I'm discussing the context of females in both Big Bang Theory and Silicon Valley. What I mean by that is, BBT is a purely fictional sitcom on CBS that aims to reach the largest audience possible. That audience has a lot of women. I'm assuming the show creators are fairly educated and in turn were smart enough to have strong female characters. Something I wholeheartedly agree with. Silicon Valley on the other hand, aims to semi-accurately represent Silicon Valley and derives its comedy from satire. Because of its attempt to be factually accurate, the roles are cast the way they are - and they seem like a fairly accurate representation of what Silicon Valley currently is.

If that's not the context of females in both of those shows, then no, I don't know what context means. I do like learning though. So please, educate me. Unless you don't fully understand.

 

[Shaneus]

This is the same exact "controversy" people were making over GIRLS a few months ago.

Except Silicon Valley is actually funny and clever.

Edit: How interesting. From that link on what tech-industry insiders think of Silicon Valley, the first response... from a woman:

Jessica Joyce, Implementation developer, ScribbleLive: “It’s my favourite show, and with its Mike Judge humour and tech plot it’s addicting. One of my favourite parts of the show is they use real code. In so many movies/TV shows and the like that focus on tech, they don’t use real code or real programs that produce code but I’ve seen my preferred text editor Sublime Text on all of their screens, with real CSS even. Also I know the show is entertainment but the parallels to what has actually happened within the tech world are uncanny, from books I’ve read from the employees within tech companies from doing a TED Talk and poking fun with audience members shouting questions to having a graffiti artist come in and make a piece of art for the company, it’s all rooted [in reality], with the perfect Mike Judge humour added to it.”

Well, there goes that argument.

Edit #2: And that Collider review of the most recent episode? Also from a woman. And rated said episode and entire series an A.

 

[hypotc]

The show definitely has some flaws, but after watching the finale, I'm really excited to see more. Hopefully it doesn't get cancelled. (I don't know if HBO does that often).

According to wiki:

On April 21, 2014, HBO renewed the series for a second season

Hooray!

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

If they rate women by attractiveness in order to hire them we can at least add sexism to the list.

They already did the joke with Aspie OKCupid in the pilot.

 

[Z..]

Just watched the first two episodes. Mike Judge and Martin Star convinced me to give it a chance.

I don't like the lead guy, or the the indian guy or "big head".

However... the show is already in my heart. Post-man lady killed me.

Edit:
- Dwarfism 2.0.
- Where's dwarfism 1.0?
- Just... in the world.
- Aww.

I'm dying.

 

[lunchtoast]

Big head is awesome in Maron.

 

[-COOLIO-]

The budding romance seems so forced in this. It doesn't help that Richard is the least likeable person on the show and the least funny.

Yeah for sure. There was no reason for there to be an attraction.

 

[Grinchy]

I ended up liking this show quite a bit. I wasn't sold at first but something about it kept me watching. That jerk off equation in the last episode was definitely the highlight. Just hilarious.

I never would have known that the actor who played Peter Gregory died before this thread, though. That's just awful. He was one of the better parts of the show. And I'm not even about to get into this crazy discussion about sexism. Everything in entertainment these days has some accompanying article about how it's sexist or racist.

 

[Messofanego]

Kumail Nanjiani's facial reactions to whatever dumb shit is the best.

 

[Cornballer]

- Warming Glow: Stanford Researchers Explained The Legendary ‘Silicon Valley’ Dick Joke And The Math Checks Out

12 pages long....impressive.



EDIT: Mike Judge with a few thoughts, too:

It was an inspired moment for the series and one that co-creator Mike Judge had been trying to brainstorm since the beginning of the show. “From when we first got greenlit to series, I’d been saying that I want to find a moment like in A Beautiful Mind — the barroom scene about the girls and the guys — but funnier, that leads him to an epiphany,” he tells EW. “We hadn’t quite figured it out. One of the writers, Matteo Borghese, was not even talking about this scene, he was talking about a separate conversation — I think one of his roommates was talking about how you can jack off four guys at once, and Alec just said, ‘That’s it!’ I remember a lot of sessions in the writers’ room with me, Dan O’Keefe, Alec Berg, and Clay Tarver actually having these conversations, like, ‘Well, the real thing you’re looking for is dick to floor,’ and drawing all the stuff on the dry-erase board. A lot of the drawings on the dry-erase board I actually did. I’m really proud of that scene. There were some jokes, there were improv lines like, ‘Why are you pointing them at your face?’ and I ended up taking out anything other than them really trying to solve the problem. It seemed like the straighter they played it — they’re engineers trying to solve a problem — the funnier it was. We cut a lot of stuff out. Believe it or not, it was even longer.”

 

[Calvero]

- Warming Glow: Stanford Researchers Explained The Legendary ‘Silicon Valley’ Dick Joke And The Math Checks Out

12 pages long....impressive.



EDIT: Mike Judge with a few thoughts, too:

Oh man I'd love to see an uncut version of that scene!

 

[Grakl]

- Warming Glow: Stanford Researchers Explained The Legendary ‘Silicon Valley’ Dick Joke And The Math Checks Out

12 pages long....impressive.



EDIT: Mike Judge with a few thoughts, too:

excellent

really enjoyable read

 

[Grinchy]

Oh man I'd love to see an uncut version of that scene!

Yeah, uncut is definitely more pleasant.

 

[Shaneus]

Yeah, uncut is definitely more pleasant.

Definitely more gratification in uncut, for sure.

 

[Calvero]

yeah, walked straight into that

 

[heliosRAzi]

We talkin' about dicks, right?

 

[terrene]

Junkee.com: Why Season One of Silicon Valley Was A Huge Disappointment
Probably click-bait, but it's definitely something to read.

Yeah, it's click bait. You can stop reading at "open hostility towards women" which does not exist in the tech industry, despite the lame attempt to string together some anecdotes as such.

Technically, everything on the internet is "something to read"

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

- Warming Glow: Stanford Researchers Explained The Legendary ‘Silicon Valley’ Dick Joke And The Math Checks Out
12 pages long....impressive.
EDIT: Mike Judge with a few thoughts, too:

That is freaking hilarious. lol


Hopefully they include that as a deleted scene

 

[Juz]

- Warming Glow: Stanford Researchers Explained The Legendary ‘Silicon Valley’ Dick Joke And The Math Checks Out

12 pages long....impressive.

This is great

 

[hateradio]

I would give this season a 7.5/10. It had some great moments early on, but then it plateaued. My assumption is that the death affected the show.

 

[TrAcEr_x90]

What was that ball big head was playing around with on episode 4?? I want one! haha

 

[rinse82]

I enjoyed the first season.

The whole 'middle-out' scene slayed me and the wife.

 

[Leunam]

What was that ball big head was playing around with on episode 4?? I want one! haha

We found one at a local hobby store. It's pretty unforgiving if you go too fast.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I come into this thread because the show is entertaining and funny. That, however, is no longer enough for some people, and it has to become a fucking social crusade. God forbid a show about a bunch of fucking socially inept dudes in the tech industry isn't swarming with women.

I'd really like to go watch The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants right now to calm down, but it would just make my blood boil that there are no strong male leads! Ugh!

What's wrong with you?

The tech industry has an obvious problem with a lack of minorities and women, and it would have been nice to have a show that was willing to be brave about it rather than perpetuating the stereotypes.

 

[TrAcEr_x90]

We found one at a local hobby store. It's pretty unforgiving if you go too fast.

What is it called?

 

[Leunam]

Don't remember, but I'll see if I can find out soon. Cost something like $30.

 

[daviyoung]

What's wrong with you?

The tech industry has an obvious problem with a lack of minorities and women, and it would have been nice to have a show that was willing to be brave about it rather than perpetuating the stereotypes.

The show is all about the stereotypes. That's kinda its thing.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The show is all about the stereotypes. That's kinda its thing.

People have brought up BBT which is a horrible show that still manages to follow stereotypes while giving women and minorities something at all. I can understand rooting the show in reality, but I wish it tried harder to be more eye-opening instead of just making self-aware jokes (which don't work if you aren't actively working to subvert the stereotypes anyway). It's a pretty good show, but it could have been more. KOTH set my expectations high for Mike Judge.