Honest question here: what's your other coding background?
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SimCity |OT| It's not the simulation or city that matter, it's <parameter: string>
- Thread starter Cjdamon042
- Start date
Honest question here: what's your other coding background?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What's throwing me off a little in the game is how the higher wealth classes work, and how they are pretty much entirely shackled to land value, which is for the most part shackled to parks.
In SimCity 4, it mattered that you have low pollution, good health/fire/police/power/water coverage, and decent traffic conditions in order for high wealth sims to find any given plot of land attractive and thus move in. This worked well in the sense that as your high wealth residential demand rises, rich sims are able to move in naturally in the appropriate places.
High wealth is an indicator of good service.
However, in SimCity 5, it works a little differently. High wealth development just happens to be where the high land value is, which is primarily decided by parks, and to a lesser extent some government buildings. That's why you can have the best health/fire/police coverage in the world, and you'll still have a bunch of low wealth sims living in your city. An area is only designated as high wealth unless I say it is (via parks).
I guess this makes it easier in designing a low wealth city on purpose, since in SC4 the only way to force an entire map of low wealth sims is to purposefully make sure their lives are terrible.
In SimCity 4, it mattered that you have low pollution, good health/fire/police/power/water coverage, and decent traffic conditions in order for high wealth sims to find any given plot of land attractive and thus move in. This worked well in the sense that as your high wealth residential demand rises, rich sims are able to move in naturally in the appropriate places.
High wealth is an indicator of good service.
However, in SimCity 5, it works a little differently. High wealth development just happens to be where the high land value is, which is primarily decided by parks, and to a lesser extent some government buildings. That's why you can have the best health/fire/police coverage in the world, and you'll still have a bunch of low wealth sims living in your city. An area is only designated as high wealth unless I say it is (via parks).
I guess this makes it easier in designing a low wealth city on purpose, since in SC4 the only way to force an entire map of low wealth sims is to purposefully make sure their lives are terrible.
It's because all the calculations are being done on EA's supercomputers. That's why you must always be connected.
In EU, maybe. Not in America though. You could do a chargeback form your CC, but I believe they threatened to lock your Origin account if you do.
Maybe I'll do a CC chargeback. Screw Origin and screw EA. I downloaded Origin just cause I got suckered into buying this game. Would not pay $20 for "SimCity" let alone around $67 after taxes.
You got me! Java.
Gentlemen, it's really not all that uncommon for games to to utilize CSS and Javascript (typically based on Webkit ports) for their UI.
Also JS doesn't suck 'donkey balls'. It's actually making inroads on the server as well and plenty of mobile games have almost all their game code in JS as a replacement for Lua since it makes web ports easier.
Also JS doesn't suck 'donkey balls'. It's actually making inroads on the server as well and plenty of mobile games have almost all their game code in JS as a replacement for Lua since it makes web ports easier.
But, Java and JavaScript have nothing to do with each other. Have you coded a lot with Java? Because I can't really see someone enjoying JavaScript without it either being lack of experience or being a masochist. I really don't wish to call you either, that's why I'm genuinely curious. It's such a mess, and incredibly unapproachable, and looks to similar for others, but is in no way similar to other programming languages. It's probably the worst language I know.
Dude, this is a desktop simulation. Ajax is related to web-pages that are inherently static where you wish to asynchronously update certain parts. A desktop application is not really "synchronous" or "asynchronous" since there is no static frame that has to be updated.
BlastProcessing
Member
The fact that Sims work like this is the most broken part of the game for me. I tried to build a tourist town with a few attractions and a couple of casinos. I notice that none of them are getting any visitors. Turns out this is because I didn't place them directly by the entrance to my city. (on the right side of the road no less) Because traveling sims stop at the first available "slot". Tourists fill up my parks and jobs before they get to my attractions.
When I first noticed the problem I though lack of public transport was the problem so I put a bunch of bus stops and streetcar stops around my tourist spot. That actually made it worse because now there are just more open "slots" competing for the sims attention.
The whole thing is heartbreaking really and the things that are ruining the game for me have nothing to do with the always online stuff.
My experience is as superficial in both cases as might be their actual similarities in the eyes of someone who knows more than a little about programming. For my needs they both worked almost exactly like I wanted them to. The code and resource management in the background might be a huge mess, but it's been (mostly) irrelevant for the little programs I wrote. The syntax was close enough, and that's all I needed.
Yup. I told my colleague, who's an avid player, about this today. He laughed so hard when he realised why his casinos weren't getting any visitors.
I see. You know the syntax is nothing alike, really? The syntax between Java, C#, C++ and C are "close enough". Did you know javascript equality operator is === and not == ? Because you'd think == would work, but then you get things like 'true' == -1 => true, and the whole fudged nine yards. Therein lies really the biggest problem with javascript, because it seems so accessible and close to Java, but then it isn't. And, yeah, the dynamic typing and resource management is also a huge fuck.
Dude, imagine if the UI was inherently static and wished to asynchronously update certain parts!
I've not really been following any of this SimCity bullshit, so sorry if I'm wrong, but according to this presentation posted earlier, they're at least requesting some info through a REST API.
Obviously the UI is updated locally, but some of the server persistence stuff is probably handled through API calls and filling in the UI.
Like I said, I'm not defending it, I think it's total bullshit for them to imply the simulation is working like that when it's basically this follow the leader garbage.
Yes, but when you wire desktop applications to any sort of web-service, synchronicity is still not a relevant word, and even if it was, AJAX has nothing to do with it. If I make a program that you can start on your computer, that's a tiny window that has a button that has text that says "Hello World!" and a button that says "get new text", and when you click that, gets a new text via a web-service call and finds "Hello James!" and I update the window to display that, that's not an asynchronous call (since desktop applications inherently aren't static, and so can't be said to be synchronous or not). And when you are talking about synchronicity in a desktop application, you'd be talking about concurrency (multi-threading) - so since SimCity is single-threaded, you'd almost be forced to say the whole thing is synchronous.
endresults
Member
The education level needed to understand this thread has risen dramatically in the past hour.
Yep, those 5gb of assets were created for facebook game, as was deferred rendering engine ...
They even mentioned that are using GPGPU features for terraforming.
And AI is not worse, its much different game at its core than other simcities.
Those points are as stupid as it can get.
So... my copy of SimCity just vanished from my Origin-account. It's still installed on my PC, but when I try to boot it up from a shortcut it claims I need to enter a keycode. If I enter my keycode, it claims the code's already been used. Well, no shit, I used it.
Is this happening to anyone else? I'm a European who bought his copy on Amazon.com, that might be causing a problem. Still, I've played 12 hours so far without problems. Booooo, EA.
Is this happening to anyone else? I'm a European who bought his copy on Amazon.com, that might be causing a problem. Still, I've played 12 hours so far without problems. Booooo, EA.
Raven77
Member
Sorry to the user who is having this issue but that is not the case.
Casino's and attractions do NOT need to be placed anywhere near your cities entrance. I know this for a fact because my city has 2 casino's both making about 7k and 8k per day along with a opera house and a Expo center. The opera and expo events (about 45k total tourists) always fill up to capacity before the show starts and my hotels are booked solid.
I would ask you this about your tourist city:
Do you have high end retail? (this breeds hotels)
Do you have lots of parks and amphitheaters?
Do you have industry? (you shouldn't...)
I mean, with the way this game is, who knows, a lot of this stuff seems random but all i can say is that by having lots of parks, amphitheaters, education, police, high end hotels, etc. my tourist town is Booming baby!
No, the point is that if you have a tram station 2 meters before your casinos, your tourists will get on the tram, and then get shuttled away from the casinos, because the tram is the first open slot.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Becoming more and more disappointed with this purchase each and every day.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Raven77
Member
I have a tram station as well as a train depot, etc. right outside the casino and have never witnessed this.
Again though, maybe if the tram is in JUST the right spot, this issue occurrs. IDK, this game is bizarre in its AI behavior.
endresults
Member
Keep in mind that the games you're making these comparisons with are all at least 10 years old.
BlastProcessing
Member
I do have some industry. My city is modeled on Biff Tannen's Back to the Future 2 Hill Valley. I have plenty hotels but they often close due to lack of customers. I think I have too many parks. I watch traffic flow right into them rather than going to my attractions.
The more I see of it, the less I would call it AI. People just flow like water through pipes.
So what? They are working in completely different way. And in this game cars and citizens act as an agents, same goes for water, electricity, supplies and other stuff. Read Maxis pdf, its not bad design, its too general design, there should be exceptions for different types of units and conditions, like 3 way highway is always better than dirt road if the road has high traffic or distance is less than 1000 for example, but its not broken, or not its stupid, its just to generally defined.
This game had 3 open beta and 2 preview events and no one was complaining or saw the issues, even when it was described year ago on GDC conference ...
When you don't weight your roads, which is to say that when you calculate the shortest distance, a dirt-road would be distance * 10, and a highway would be distance * 1, then you have a broken design. This is what GPS's have been doing for more than a decade, now.
It is stupid, and it breaks the game. Having firetrucks leave in convoys instead of spreading out, having trains of school-buses instead of being able to cover the city. That just breaks the game.
And so what about the betas? Maybe people were more forgiving, since they thought it was a work in progress. It's like you think it's OK to release a broken product, so long as people have seen it before.
storybook77
Member
This is my biggest problem. The ability to upgrade your service buildings is basically pointless because of this.
endresults
Member
I'm glad you're having fun with the game and everything, but how can you say the game isn't broken?
That's not a city, it's Lombard street. These are the lengths people need to go to avoid the shit traffic problems.
Yup, I was enjoying the game until I began to notice the issues with traffic during my first city, and my interest has declined ever since.
I was willing to accept smaller plots in favor of better simulation, but instead we got nothing in return. Pitiful.
I said that its broken and badly defined and You are writing that i think this is ok ... Its not ok, but its not ok to call it names or make it disaster like it was something that kills kittens. It was public knowledge, it was sent for testing to media and players.
Setting distance for dirt road wont be enough, it needs to have traffic information.
Firetracks etc, is because its all on general rules and it shouldnt be, what i wrote in my earlier post.
Where i said that? ...
Read posts, seriously.
Yes, and throwing on an average of cars in the last week and then offloading to smaller roads with a random percentage based calculation is very easy. That's just a bonus.
You're saying I don't have the right to hold EA to a higher standard than the bugged and flawed system they have released this time around. You're talking about it like it's a "lower grade" product, and that we should've known that when we got it. We pay a premium price, so that doesn't apply. The fact that people have seen it doesn't mean it's OK, either.
We're talking about a game. A luxury hobby, if you will. Nothing in this industry will ever kill kittens. So this is a scandal in gaming terms. They released a game that's broken in so many ways it's not funny anymore. Now it's even down to the most basic philosophies of agent flow that's sub-par, and the whole thing reeks. The game doesn't crash when you start it, but it crashes your city unless you don't build roads to offload balance, but you have to shorten the distance for roads to be picked. You have to build around a poor philosophy, and it doesn't get more broken than that.
endresults
Member
You are literally saying that SimCity's design is not bad and that it (the original subject, Simcity's design pdf) isn't broken. You need to fix the sentence or break it up into two.
Not bashing. Your profile says Poland, so I'm guessing you're trying to say something other than what you are actually saying with that sentence.
What pdf? Is it a design doc?
GDC tech presentation - http://www.andrewwillmott.com/talks/inside-glassbox/GlassBox GDC 2012 Slides.pdf
Ok, my bad, i meant general idea behind Simcity algorithms is not broken, so game mechanically is not broken like some people are claiming. They've designed it in very clever way actually, that allows for many other complicated systems to be implemented.
Just their rule set doesnt cover exceptions and it should. Not every agent should behave identically, they need specified exceptions, like for example traffic/road-type information for cars and here its 'broken' or not defined correctly, whatever term You prefer.
Has anyone figured out if the "Calculations are done on EA's server" statement is true?
Like, does the game download and upload a lot of stuff when you move around between towns of different people? (Relative to the amount that is uploaded/downloaded when you are playing alone/no other cities nearby since I've heard that can be done for a while, with everything working, without being connected to EA.)
Like, does the game download and upload a lot of stuff when you move around between towns of different people? (Relative to the amount that is uploaded/downloaded when you are playing alone/no other cities nearby since I've heard that can be done for a while, with everything working, without being connected to EA.)
When a simulation game has simulation that doesn't simulate anything, then it's broken. It's like buying a driving game and not being able to get into any cars. They're still there, you'd argue, but you have to walk.
You can disconnect from the servers, and everything in your local city will still work. It does some region hand-holding and verification, but other than that, no, I don't believe it's true.
So they had an interesting idea, and then did fuck all in terms of making a good game with it? I don't think anyone is saying an agent model for a city simulator is inherently bullshit, they just flat out made a bad simulator no matter how close they were to making a good one.
City to city, city to region and region to region interactions are handled by servers, everything inside city is handled by players pc.
--
I have no problem with statement that they've fucked up rules set of agents, but most people here or in other topics dont even know what's wrong. They think its some kind of facebook crappy simulation with fake sims running around, which is not true and should be corrected.
Maxis should get called out on their lack of individual rule set for agent type behaviours, but shouldnt about everything else they have in recent news. They should also write BIG dev blog and explain why they havent made exceptions for cars and priority behavior for public service cars like firetracks or police.
endresults
Member
Agreed. Emergency services are one area that needs some massive tweaking. Can you imagine a world where a warehouse burns down because the entire city's fire department is responding to a double-wide fire?
Yeah, I've heard that. But I was wondering if, perhaps, it was true regarding regional stuff -- since you apparently need to deal with other cities at the higher levels, it would probably be necessary for offline play.
But is there any proof? Like, couldn't someone just check their upload/download information while moving around between the different cities?
Anyhow, since the game has a single player component, I assume the game has some form of A.I in place to deal with regional stuff in those types of games. Couldn't that component simply be transferred to the client instead of being hosted on the server, if that's the case?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
From what we have seen. No.
Oh, wow, the game files are all the same format as Sims 3 and can be extracted with tools like S3PE. They got the code for the fudged population, etc, right out of the game files.
http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/1a8bw7/how_to_mod_sim_city_2013_getting_started_basics/
http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/1a8bw7/how_to_mod_sim_city_2013_getting_started_basics/
Bad example. In that screenshot that city is in sandbox mode with everything disabled: pollution, crime, sickness, etc. And taxes at 0%.
THIS is a much better example of optimizing traffic by exploiting the shortest path routing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV6PrEjaH8Q
It's a very interesting video and the results are not like that snaking image.
Oh, well that's not final design. People need to stop treating GDC as a press release and more of a design theory show and tell.
endresults
Member
Thanks for the clarification, and yeah, that video explains a whole lot.
Wow, I thought the issues were behind us but I guess not with all the stuff coming out the last few days -- especially the traffic pathfinding (I mean come on, this can be game breaking and no one thought to fix this at all?!) and the "fudged" population issues. I think some of these really break the illusion for me, it being some sort of simulation where really it the game has felt rushed from the get go and puts their entire architecture into question.
Don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful looking and fun game though at the same time makes me more skeptical towards to Maxis and if they've misrepresented many elements to the public. Funny thing is, it's only been a week...
Don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful looking and fun game though at the same time makes me more skeptical towards to Maxis and if they've misrepresented many elements to the public. Funny thing is, it's only been a week...
frontieruk
Member
Ah the king of Sweden strikes again.
Hampa9 said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/1a8bw7/how_to_mod_sim_city_2013_getting_started_basics/
Makes sense.
Seems like all previous SimCity games have "fudged" the population count.