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[Red]

Again as you and others have done, I don't really get the complaint that the game should be on a better platform. You knew from the get go what system it was going to be on, I don't really think it's a valid complaint. I also am not completely sure but I believe members have been banned for such complaints because it deters the conversation.

It's a horrible argument. I game almost exclusively on PC, and I could easily say the PS360 do not offer enough horsepower to "match the imagination" of many games. But that's delusional. It's the same thing Neiteio is doing in regards to the Wii.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

It's a horrible argument. I game almost exclusively on PC, and I could easily say the PS360 do not offer enough horsepower to "match the imagination" of many games. But that's delusional. It's the same thing Neiteio is doing in regards to the Wii.

Exactly. That is one thing that always annoys me with G4 in particular.

I mean we might as well dismiss and complain about every single portable game in existence because every game would be better on consoles and PC anyway.

 

[Rehynn]

it's been confirmed that the three regions are unconnected and accessed through distinctly gamey holes in the stratosphere.

This actually worries me too.

 

[Thoraxes]

I stopped reading at "For one, I'm an adult"
You can tell its going to go downhill from there.

He also hates babies and Disney World.

 

[Peterthumpa]

For those planning to play this using Dolphin... is the Wii Motion+ controller supported correctly?

 

[Red]

This actually worries me too.

I can see plenty of people complaining about it, but if it means less tedious back and forth across empty spaces it should be a good move.

I really hated the structure of Metroid Prime 3 though, so I'm hoping each area is more substantial than bite-sized chunks.

For those planning to play this using Dolphin... is the Wii Motion+ controller supported correctly?

Would also like an answer for this. Won't have motion+ to be able to test myself until the game arrives.

I think the answer is yes but I'd like confirmation.

 

[hatchx]

Again all of these things have been done before just not by Zelda. Which is what he's talking about. There is plenty of new things for SS but he is technically right that other games have done bird flying, have had an upgrade system, almost all of the motion controls are directly from WSR, etc. Again, I said from what I've seen. Obviously I haven't seen every puzzle also there are a few block pushing segments according to another review.

I'm not on his side of the arguement for being underwhelmed or not being hyped because my hype level is over 9000 but I don't think he should be teared up into bits and pieces when he's not stating anything factually wrong.


This is the only problem I have with his rant because the platform was chosen ages ago and this I believe has been a bannable offense in the past; that and he's trying to measure and define what is and isn't magical.

No, he is not saying anything wrong, and perhaps I'm trying to hard to make him see the light....


but there is a very grey area between new and rehash to us on GAF. What constitutes something new? Ground breaking ideas aren't in every game. Maybe Zelda is not pushing the newest tech, but I don't see what's 'un-new' about Syward Sword and is so imaginatively new about Arkham City, Uncharted 3, Call of Duty, Sykrim, or Battlefield.

When COD is essentially the same FPS with different environments, maybe some new perks and matchmaking setup, is that so new when Zelda takes place in a completely new environment with completely new controls?


I just don't compute the rehash vs sequel arguments on gaf.

 

[Bucket Mouse]

I largely agree with Neiteio's assessments and it is refreshing to see a more sober perspective on the game at this point. The aforementioned "zoning" of the overworld seems to me to be a very "last gen" conceit; whether or not this will be to the game's detriment is yet to be seen. This of course stands at odds with the purported paradigm-shifting nature of the motion controls. We shall see.

 

[Thoraxes]

Would also like an answer for this. Won't have motion+ to be able to test myself until the game arrives.

I think the answer is yes but I'd like confirmation.

It worked fine for me last time I tried it. For all we know though, the game could make it not be able to work until some fixes go through, as per the nature of emulation. So I think it will/should work, but always be prepared for a hassle when it comes to emulation.

 

[Neiteio]

It's a horrible argument. I game almost exclusively on PC, and I could easily say the PS360 do not offer enough horsepower to "match the imagination" of many games. But that's delusional. It's the same thing Neiteio is doing in regards to the Wii.

There's nothing to argue. With this game, I'm just overwhelmed by what I see, that's how it's affecting me and there's no arguing around it. And when I wonder why, I think that in this case the restraints of the hardware are to blame. It doesn't hamper all Wii games -- for example, I couldn't imagine DKCR, Muramasa or the Galaxy games looking any better on a high-def platform. And I love portable games, so again, I'm NOT saying all games must have raw power to fulfill their vision. But with this particular game, I just see unfulfilled potential. And for me -- for ME -- I feel underwhelmed. But I've bought the game in full, knowing that if nothing else, it will have airtight level design layered with depth and nuance, and knowing the controls will be fun and intuitive, and knowing that in terms of creative (I.E. characters, world-building), there will be a lot to admire. It's just all tarnished somewhat, for me, for reasons already described. But it's quite possible playing the full game at my own pace will change this sentiment.

 

[kunonabi]

OoT was far more limited by its hardware than SS will ever be. There was a ton of stuff that got cut because the N64 couldn't pull it off. Its a silly argument.

 

[Instro]

I largely agree with Neiteio's assessments and it is refreshing to see a more sober perspective on the game at this point. The aforementioned "zoning" of the overworld seems to me to be a very "last gen" conceit; whether or not this will be to the game's detriment is yet to be seen. This of course stands at odds with the purported paradigm-shifting nature of the motion controls. We shall see.

Why would this be considered last gen?

 

[Red]

It worked fine for me last time I tried it. For all we know though, the game could make it not be able to work until some fixes go through, as per the nature of emulation. So I think it will/should work, but always be prepared for a hassle when it comes to emulation.

Sure, but TP runs perfectly on my machine and looks amazing.

If SS is running on the same engine, I have high hopes it will perform just as admirably.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

No, he is not saying anything wrong, and perhaps I'm trying to hard to make him see the light....


but there is a very grey area between new and rehash to us on GAF. What constitutes something new? Ground breaking ideas aren't in every game. Maybe Zelda is not pushing the newest tech, but I don't see what's 'un-new' about Syward Sword and is so imaginatively new about Arkham City, Uncharted 3, Call of Duty, Sykrim, or Battlefield.

When COD is essentially the same FPS with different environments, maybe some new perks and matchmaking setup, is that so new when Zelda takes place in a completely new environment with completely new controls?


I just don't compute the rehash vs sequel arguments on gaf.

I agree with what you're saying to an extent. However, I don't believe he was ever calling Arkham City, Uncharted 3, Call of Duty, etc. new and revolutionary. There are only a handful of games where I think they introduced revolutionary and entirely new concepts and I think the vast majority of them are from the 8 bit era and the N64/Saturn/PS1 era because it was new technology and developers were trying to figure out ways to accomplish tasks with the hardware.

For me I believe Zelda Skyward Sword is perhaps the biggest change in Zelda since ALttP and I don't agree with people complaining about it being a rehash or having sequelitis.

 

[brandonh83]

OoT was far more limited by its hardware than SS will ever be. There was a ton of stuff that got cut because the N64 couldn't pull it off. Its a silly argument.

I'm still bitter about that. Nintendo Power got me so hyped for Ocarina because of the promises they were making about the 64DD functionality.

 

[Neiteio]

OoT was far more limited by its hardware than SS will ever be. There was a ton of stuff that got cut because the N64 couldn't pull it off. Its a silly argument.

Sigh, reread my post. I specifically said relative to the time. OoT was so magical because at the time it was leaps and bounds ahead of anything on the market. There was no game that felt as epic and immersive as OoT did when it released. But times have changed, standards have changed. What constitutes a sprawling, densely detailed, magically immersive world now is different than what made one then. That's all I'm saying.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Considering how good previous zeldas have been i'm not sure why i should suddenly become concerned about how powerful the HW is now.

I will admit that seeing the zelda wii U footage has me extremely hyped for some next gen zelda but that doesn't mean this one won't be great.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Sigh, reread my post. I specifically said relative to the time. OoT was so magical because at the time it was leaps and bounds ahead of anything on the market.

Weird, I thought it was because it was a great game.

 

[hatchx]

Considering how good previous zeldas have been i'm not sure why i should suddenly become concerned about how powerful the HW is now.

I will admit that seeing the zelda wii U footage has me extremely hyped for some next gen zelda but that doesn't mean this one won't be great.

Am I the only one less excited for Zelda Wii U because it appears to ditch the motion+ controls in favour of touch screen item-switching?

 

[GamerSoul]

I largely agree with Neiteio's assessments and it is refreshing to see a more sober perspective on the game at this point. The aforementioned "zoning" of the overworld seems to me to be a very "last gen" conceit; whether or not this will be to the game's detriment is yet to be seen. This of course stands at odds with the purported paradigm-shifting nature of the motion controls. We shall see.

The zoning thing doesn't seem like a problem to me because the it gives us more reason to explore the skies to the fullest extent. If they weren't zoned, the sky would seem less important and what would be the point of that?

 

[Neiteio]

Weird, I thought it was because it was a great game.

Well of course, but then I never said SS wouldn't be a great game.

 

[Lunar15]

Series lows??

Surely he can't mean...

 

[RagnarokX]

Stupid phone

 

[Instro]

Skyward Sword introduces mechanics that are new for Zelda (dungeon-ifying the overworld, stamina dashing/climbing, dowsing instead of compass, upgrading items, bomb-rolling, giving unique items earlier, etc), but I mean in terms of gaming in general, there is nothing as monumental in SS as Z-targeting in OoT or 4D gameplay in MM. Plus, besides the way the dated hardware already holds back the scale of the world, the world looks further fragmented by the "zoning" of the overworld; it's been confirmed that the three regions are unconnected and accessed through distinctly gamey holes in the stratosphere. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm still seeing SS as many parts rather than as something more than the sum of its parts. But I reserve final judgment for when I've finally had time to drink in the game at length. In the meanwhile, at this point in time, everything just looks a bit dated, fresh only by Zelda's own conventions, and while I know it will be tightly designed like Galaxy, I just lament the fact the game could've been so much more with the hardware power and budget to match its imagination.

I'm a little confused. Why do you consider this to be a flaw? Why is this a product of limitations and not purely a design decision?

 

[NEO0MJ]

Why would this be considered last gen?

Because they couldn't find a way to link all the zones like how games such as inFamous or Arkham City linked their zones together without the need for a hub.

 

[apana]

For me this is the most important gaming experience of this whole generation, Zelda Wii is finally here. I'm sure when we all play it we will come back to these threads and be like, "Holy Shit! What an incredible experience, I finally understand now".

 

[GamerSoul]

Because they couldn't find a way to link all the zones like how games such as inFamous or Arkham City linked their zones together without the need for a hub.

They seem to have made it work for the game. I can tell Skyloft is not just an abitrary hub. I can't wait to play this...arhghg

 

[Peterthumpa]

Sure, but TP runs perfectly on my machine and looks amazing.

If SS is running on the same engine, I have high hopes it will perform just as admirably.

He was talking specifically about Wii Motion+.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Skyward Sword’s combat and puzzle-solving rise above the majority of Wii releases (and even most recent Zelda games) thanks to the clever and challenging implementation of motion controls. Most Zelda titles have simplistic combat where mashing a single button turns into a frenzy of flourish-filled combos. Skyward Sword demands a much higher level of patience and mastery. The direction you swing the Wii remote directly correlates to the angle the sword slices in-game, and enemies are smart and fast enough to block incoming attacks.

I had concerns that carefully plotting my attacks for every swing would get boring or frustrating, but the opposite was true. I’ve never felt as engaged or interested in the combat portion of a Zelda game as with Skyward Sword. If you run into a group of enemies waggling the Wii remote like a madman, you will be torn to shreds. Success in swordplay depends on studying opponents’ moves and attacking at the right time and from the right angle. When the correct method to defeat each foe finally clicked, I felt a sense of satisfaction that repeatedly tapping the A button never provided.

This impressive combat system leads to some of the most interesting boss battles in the series’ history. Whether you’re fighting a giant scorpion or a sword-swinging robot, Skyward Sword rarely falls back on the formula of using a tool to knock out the boss and then attacking it three times in a row. You need to be much smarter and much more persistent to best these bad guys. In fact, the last two boss encounters are the most difficult fights in any Zelda game thus far.

Just fucking awesome.

And wow at comparing this to Uncharted 3. I mean, really? I just beat the game, and I'm trying to figure out what the fuck these two series have in common that a comparison would be warranted, especially in trying to come to the conclusion that Uncharted is superior. Fucking embarrassing. I really wonder about some people, and those G4 comments are so utterly asinine. They're actually a reputable game reviewer? Wow.

 

[Instro]

Because they couldn't find a way to link all the zones like how games such as inFamous or Arkham City linked their zones together without the need for a hub.

But those are purely open world games.

 

[BertramCooper]

Because they couldn't find a way to link all the zones like how games such as inFamous or Arkham City linked their zones together without the need for a hub.

Within the context of the game, it makes sense, though.

The bulk of civilization lives in the sky. The underworld is largely wild and undeveloped. To me, it makes sense that the underworld isn't seamlessly connected. It's a wilderness.

 

[Red]

He was talking specifically about Wii Motion+.

I see that now. Misread "the game could make it not be able to work until some fixes go through." Thought it said, "the game could not be able to work..."

 

[Neiteio]

For me this is the most important gaming experience of this whole generation, Zelda Wii is finally here. I'm sure when we all play it we will come back to these threads and be like, "Holy Shit! What an incredible experience, I finally understand now".

I hope it will become that for me too. For now, I'm just skeptical. Like I said, I'm sure it will be a great game like OoT, but there's something to be said for the overall package. OoT, if released today as it was released on the N64 (so NOT the 3DS remake) would still be a great game, but obviously it wouldn't bewitch people the same way now as it did then. The last-gen tech is evident in this title; it's just a question of whether the ideas and their execution can compensate for that. So I'm not letting my expectations get out of check until the WiiU Zelda is shown. For SS, I'm just expecting a game that feels like a game, nothing more, but that is incredibly solid at being a game. I'll probably at least get that, judging by the reviews, and for me that's worth the price of admission, absolutely.

 

[SYNTAX182]

Because they couldn't find a way to link all the zones like how games such as inFamous or Arkham City linked their zones together without the need for a hub.

What the, they can do it, didn't they with TP? They just decided that they wanted to go a different route.

 

[Instro]

Within the context of the game, it makes sense, though.

The bulk of civilization lives in the sky. The underworld is largely wild and undeveloped. To me, it makes sense that the underworld isn't seamlessly connected. It's a wilderness.

This is the point I'm trying to make actually. This isn't a product of "last gen" hardware, its an intended design decision based on the world they have created.

 

[Thoraxes]

Sure, but TP runs perfectly on my machine and looks amazing.

If SS is running on the same engine, I have high hopes it will perform just as admirably.

Not that, I mean motion plus.

 

[Neiteio]

Skydiving through portals to access a fire world, forest world, desert world, etc, feels like jumping through paintings in Mario 64. I think some people are saying they would be more excited if there was at least an illusion of connective tissue, I.E. desert sage transitioning to pine, etc, to make the world feel like a cohesive whole rather than splintered levels you explore on a smaller scale. Yes, functionally it's the same as any other Zelda game, but it's just the presentation of clouds --> forest --> clouds --> fire feels more jarring. Just my take on what some are saying.

 

[oatmeal]

I hope it will become that for me too. For now, I'm just skeptical. Like I said, I'm sure it will be a great game like OoT, but there's something to be said for the overall package. OoT, if released today as it was released on the N64 (so NOT the 3DS remake) would still be a great game, but obviously it wouldn't bewitch people the same way now as it did then. The last-gen tech is evident in this title; it's just a question of whether the ideas and their execution can compensate for that. So I'm not letting my expectations get out of check until the WiiU Zelda is shown. For SS, I'm just expecting a game that feels like a game, nothing more, but that is incredibly solid at being a game. I'll probably at least get that, judging by the reviews, and for me that's worth the price of admission, absolutely.

I'm with you here...

Zelda used to be a series that pushed technology with innovation. Look back at the NES, and Zelda 1 and 2 were some of the better looking games. ALTTP was one of the SNES's best looking games.

N64 had little that looked better than OoT/MM...and TWW still looks unbelievable.

It just sucks that, 5 years after TP, we get a game that is a side-step graphically.

It will make the first HD Zelda that much more surreal, though.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm with you here...

Zelda used to be a series that pushed technology with innovation. Look back at the NES, and Zelda 1 and 2 were some of the better looking games. ALTTP was one of the SNES's best looking games.

N64 had little that looked better than OoT/MM...and TWW still looks unbelievable.

It just sucks that, 5 years after TP, we get a game that is a side-step graphically.

It will make the first HD Zelda that much more surreal, though.

Exactly. Zelda games should look and sound as spectacular as they play. They should set the watermark for audiovisual standards just as they do for game design. And funny you should mention TWW, which I will say without hesitation looks more advanced than SS. Its art direction is simply so much bolder and livelier. The cel-shading did wonders to conceal the last-gen geometry and poly counts. Nothing looked out of place.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

I'm with you here...

Zelda used to be a series that pushed technology with innovation. Look back at the NES, and Zelda 1 and 2 were some of the better looking games. ALTTP was one of the SNES's best looking games.

N64 had little that looked better than OoT/MM...and TWW still looks unbelievable.

It just sucks that, 5 years after TP, we get a game that is a side-step graphically.

It will make the first HD Zelda that much more surreal, though.

uh...wut?

 

[SYNTAX182]

Skydiving through portals to access a fire world, forest world, desert world, etc, feels like jumping through paintings in Mario 64. I think some people are saying they would be more excited if there was at least an illusion of connective tissue, I.E. desert sage transitioning to pine, etc, to make th world feel like a cohesive whole rather than splintered levels you explore on a smaller scale. Yes, functionally it's the same as any other Zelda game, but it's just the presentation of clouds --> forest --> clouds --> fire feels more jarring. Just my take on what some are saying.

Different people prefer different things, but this type of design still works as demonstrated most recently by Demon's Souls. Plus they've been using the cohesive, more connected world since the beginning of the series, it was time for them to try something new. Would be cool if the world was designed like Dark Souls though. Maybe next time.

 

[oatmeal]

uh...wut?

It looks like it is on the same console as TP. And, IMO, looks worse overall than TWW.

Exactly. Zelda games should look and sound as spectacular as they play. They should set the watermark for audiovisual standards just as they do for game design. And funny you should mention TWW, which I will say without hesitation looks more advanced than SS. Its art direction is simply so much bolder and livelier. The cel-shading did wonders to conceal the last-gen geometry and poly counts. Nothing looked out of place.

Nailed it.

SS looks nice, but it has a lot of elements that stick out. They should have kept it even simpler.

However, that's just off of the videos and screens I've seen. Nintendo is notorious for having games that look much better on your TV.

 

[Red]

Exactly. Zelda games should look and sound as spectacular as they play. They should set the watermark for audiovisual standards just as they do for game design. And funny you should mention TWW, which I will say without hesitation looks more advanced than SS. Its art direction is simply so much bolder and livelier. The cel-shading did wonders to conceal the last-gen geometry and poly counts. Nothing looked out of place.

I think SS looks stunning. Its DoF effect is up there with The Witcher 2 as one of my favorites. If you're talking originality and cohesion, there's little that beats it.

Maybe it's not as bold a departure for the series as WW was, but I appreciate it for the way it seems to be adopting some of the art for the first three games.

I agree that WW's art style was just breathtaking. It's still one of the best looking console games. Absolutely timeless, and a marvel when you consider how well it scales to HD.

 

[Neiteio]

It looks like it is on the same console as TP. And, IMO, looks worse overall than TWW.

I think the pink Quagsire guy was confused because TP was also on Wii. But your point is TP was designed for GCN, which was last-gen tech, and SS still looks like TP (albeit with soft toon-like shading), which is true. And yeah, it's ironic both games look duller than TWW, which was practically swelling with life.

 

[Kard8p3]

I think the pink Quagsire guy was confused because TP was also on Wii. But your point is TP was designed for GCN, which was last-gen tech, and SS still looks like TP (albeit with soft toon-like shading), which is true. And yeah, it's ironic both games look duller than TWW, which was practically swelling with life.

Personally I like the look of Skyward Sword much better but to each his own.

 

[oatmeal]

Personally I like the look of Skyward Sword much better but to each his own.

Indeed.

I think when we look back in 5 or so years, TWW will continue to look the best from this decade. It's timeless.

 

[Instro]

While I enjoyed the cel shading and bright colors in TWW, the character designs were pretty shitty. SS feels much more like a 3d version of the the AlttP artstyle, and overall is much more pleasing to look at.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

NYC-GAF and accidental tourists that day, the Nintendo World Store is having a "Zelda event" on the 19th. Hmmmmm.

The guy said he didn't think we'd be able to pick up the game that day but there would be "more details" about the event soon. Personally I think it would be a bit odd to have hardcore Zelda fans come in on Saturday for a big hoopdedoo and then come in again the next day to pick up the game. So keep your antennae up.

Also, everyone seems to go spastic when playing the Zelda demo.

Also also, the Super Mario Land demo was underwhelming.

 

[Caelus]

While I enjoyed the cel shading and bright colors in TWW, the character designs were pretty shitty. SS feels much more like a 3d version of the the AlttP artstyle, and overall is much more pleasing to look at.

And I daresay it looks much better than blurry and drab TP, which is a pain to look at on my TV- even OoT and MM look better. Too bad.

 

[timetokill]

https://twitter.com/#!/cwgabriel/status/133277872780619776