What exactly is heating up in Bosnia? Since I'm bosnian I would really like to know what you mean?
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Slovakia ready to receive Syrian refugees but only if they are non-muslim.
- Thread starter ElTorro
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What exactly is heating up in Bosnia? Since I'm bosnian I would really like to know what you mean?
Terra Firma
Banned
Nope, majority of those who have escaped were Sunnis. Do you think those that Assad killed (over 200,000 people so far) were Shi'as?
This article from a year ago says that a million SUNNI refugees have settled in Lebanon.
This article, also a year old, says that Sunnis are the overwhelming majority of refugees in Lebanon.
In fact, earlier this year, Lebanon had to restrict Sunnis from entering because they were just too many.
This article also claims that a million Sunni refugees have gone to Jordan.
This report also states that by and large the refugees in Turkey from Syria are also Sunnis.
So, yes, it is mostly Sunnis fleeing Assad, rather than Shi'as/Christians fleeing Da'esh or any other militant group, religious or secular, that form the bulk of these refugees.
Da'esh has managed to kill less than a tenth of what Assad has accomplished in terms of death count. Just a few days ago, over a hundred people were killed by Assad in a market bombing. When was the last time you heard Da'esh killing a hundred people in one fell swoop?
We hear the horrors perpetrated by Da'esh, especially when they target a minority community, like the Christians or the Yazidis (despite the overwhelming amount of Da'esh murders being those of Sunni Muslims), but Da'esh is nothing compared to the efficiency of murder that the Assad regime has done. Despite all the vile things that Da'esh does, many people keep joining it because a) it has been popularized above and beyond all the other rebel groups in Syria and b) it has been propped up to be the leading anti-Assad force (despite the fact that it has mostly been carrying out military actions against Kurds and Iraqi Shi'as).
Mailenstein
Member
Sickboy007
Member
Sad to see people I reputed to be sensible defending this shit.
Not a problem to be honest, our intelligence agency SIPA are fully capable of taking care of that problem. The bosnian extremist don't have any support from the bosnian public. They actually believe that the bosnian muslims are non-muslims that need to convert or die. It's nothing else then warmongering and needs to stop.
The refugee problem is in Macedonia and Serbia and not in Bosnia. There are only 130+ refugees currently staying in Bosnia. It's much easier to reach the EU from Macedonia or Serbia.
The non-muslim population of the Balkans won't put the bosnian muslims in the same category as the refugees that are flooding the borders.
Canada and the US get to pick and choose, and they are very strict about this. Europe faces a huge wave of political and economical refugees (important distinction there) at this moment. Refugees from war zones like Syria have a high chance of being permitted to stay, at the same time there are countless refugees from poverty-stricken nations such as Albania who will nearly always be deported back to their home country
if millions of people suddenly deserted the Caribbean islands on boats to seek asylum on the North American mainland, the situation would be more comparable
Terra Firma
Banned
Canada and the US have accepted thousands of refugees from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Somalia, but you don't really see many Afghan or Iraqi refugees in Canada or the US being marginalized or acting violently.
Give me a per capita number compared to Germany and Sweden and get back to me with your pride over how well you integrate them.
Wow. Thousands? Whew.
You're not even allowed into the US if you collaborated with the US military, providing them with invaluable information and your family is being massacred by the Taliban.
In any case I already gave other reasons why the situation is different. Additionally, most immigration problems stem from economic immigrants. Nearly all of the western ISIS fighters have roots in the Maghreb.
Terra Firma
Banned
Bloodthirsty, insane extremists who are killing Christians provokes more emotion in the West than a cold, tyrannical army killing Muslims. Why do you think there is so much emphasis on Da'esh killing Christians when the majority of those killed by Da'esh are Sunni Muslims - mostly those who rejected Da'esh and their 'caliph'?
Couple that with the fact that some of the extreme stories about Da'esh turn out to be outright fabrications yet are accepted without fact checking then you have people saying that Assad is somehow better than Da'esh.
http://wiki.settlementatwork.org/wiki/Refugees
Canada takes every 1 out of 10 international refugees.
http://www.carl-acaadr.ca/challenging-the-myths
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/comme...15-01-21/why_does_canada_accept_refugees.aspx
Canada is number 2 after the US of accepting refugees through the UNHCR.
It should be noted that the current Canadian government has made it more difficult for refugees to be accepted - yet in spite of that, refugee acceptance has increased.
On average, Canada accepts approximately 25,000 refugees every year. Canada's population is 1/3 of Germany's but 3 times that of Sweden.
it's almost as if everyone forgot the lessons learned after World War II in regards to helping refugees. The hate and dehumanization of Brown/Middle-Eastern/Male/Muslim people in Europe is getting way, way, way out of hand.
"fuck you I got mine" seem to be the mentality these days.
"fuck you I got mine" seem to be the mentality these days.
Fear, greed, ignorance, these things will never change. Humanity as a species doesn't learn. The conflicts evolve and move around but the basic principle is always the same. Us and them. WW2 atrocities aren't some kind of one off thing that can never happen again. In fact it's only a matter of time when it happens again... and again.
Lucky_Se7enty
Member
if they fear muslims not integrating, you have to make sure they arent just dumped in Slovakia (if they get taken in), getting them to speak and write the language with be a good first step and getting them into the workplace.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Yes, won't someone think of America. That's the real victim in all this.
Most Muslims don't get welcoming parties in Saudi Arabia either, because Saudis are, by and large, self-important dickheads.
He says as he attempts to avoid the issue at hand.
MisterFalcon
Member
What lesson of WW2 precisely ? Should the 10+ million ethnic Germans expelled from Eastern Europe have been settled in Muslim countries instead of Germany ?
OK so Sweden and Germany have more per capita than Canada and the US. Now what? What's your point? The US and Canada have far more than other countries like the UK? Point is, these people are not at the border of Canada, they're at the border with EU nations. I keep seeing this over and over. Why can't the US and Canada take them. Why should they? Why not South Korea and Japan?
I keep seeing this whataboutism thrown around. Canada is taking in Syrian refugees, and Canada and the US take in a lot of refugees yearly. Don't blame us because your countries have no idea what to do or how to maintain the borders. So many EU nations are fighting over themselves, saying we'll build walls, we'll leave the Schengen area, we won't stop them from leaving to another country. Plus, it's blatantly obvious that the primarily homogenous nations of Europe are being faced with massive demographic change and are now trying to skirt around the issue. 'Oh but we take in more per capita than others, oh we'll only take them in if they're not Muslim'.
I mean don't get me wrong. It's a humanitarian crisis. No country can sustain unchecked migration. It's truly lead to the decline or collapse of many a society in history. Refugees are more than likely uneducated, underskilled and will never be upwardly mobile within the country they flee to or are placed. How many Syrians do you think know the first thing about Slovakian culture, language, life, etc. As opposed to an immigrant who applies, who lists education, who has family or has school or a job lined up to fall back on.
I have no idea what you're arguing.
To elaborate on what I wrote: Before the outbreak of the war, lots of countries didn't want to accept (m)any German (Jewish) refugees. A burden on society, bad for our society, etc. Same rhetoric as today's xenophobic climate.
So you're saying now that the millions of Syrian refugees should now settle in ... Syria? (just to show you the irrelevance of the argument you used by bring it up a totally different situation)
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Whats the worst that can happen in europe in the future? Since right wing parties are rising fast here
Could a 1st gen and 2nd gen immigrant get expelled from the country just because they're foreign? I know that plenty of people want that, just wondering if its possible
Could a 1st gen and 2nd gen immigrant get expelled from the country just because they're foreign? I know that plenty of people want that, just wondering if its possible
Yeah, the tragic faith of Slovakia having to host 200 refugees must not be ignored.
Kenshin001
Member
Assad hasn't killed 200,000. The documented death toll is 240,000, 88,000 of them are SAA and allies and 75,000 are rebels and jihadis.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/quarter-million-people-dead-syria-war-150807093941704.html
MisterFalcon
Member
Yes, settling a Sunni Arab refugee from Syria in a Sunni Arab country would the best option.
The jews were a persecuted minority. I don't really want to defend Slovakia's stance here, but they ARE allowing the persecuted minority entrance, just not the majority group. Should the UK have opened the gates to fleeing Germans? Ethically, yes. Practically, they might have some reservations, especially after seeing the Volksdeutsch in Poland.
(the analogy falls slightly flat but it is also a very bad analogy)
Ah I thought that was weird. 70,000 civilians is still a lot of course, though it's hard to argue these are all caused by Assad's regime.
Edited: I don't want to start another line of discussion, so I stick to this:
Who should settle a refugee that is fleeing to Europe in a Sunni Arab country?
Winnie the Pimp
Member
Obviously, the people that are in dire need right NOW need our help, there cannot be a discussion about this, imagine it was YOU and your loved ones sitting there, waiting for someone to help you fucking survive!
However, no matter how you spin this, there is only ONE durable solution to this clusterfuck: Politics needs to step UP their game and take a stand on how they want to handle the actual REASONS for this mass exodus. Something needs to be done regardless of financial or other interests in the region.
Like some people suggested, western support for Iran and other potential pillars of stability in the region (are there any others?) doesn't sound so bad right now only it needs to happen on BIGGER scale and fast.
However, no matter how you spin this, there is only ONE durable solution to this clusterfuck: Politics needs to step UP their game and take a stand on how they want to handle the actual REASONS for this mass exodus. Something needs to be done regardless of financial or other interests in the region.
Like some people suggested, western support for Iran and other potential pillars of stability in the region (are there any others?) doesn't sound so bad right now only it needs to happen on BIGGER scale and fast.
I'm pretty optimistic that things will not get to that point. What is a 2nd generation immigrant? The children who are born to immigrants in the country they are currently living in? I would be very surprised if a country would kick out its own citizens only because their parents were immigrants.
To get expelled only for being foreign is not something I expect even with the rise of nationalism.
I am sorry but you are deluded. You're comparing a US & Canada, both which have a massive amount of available land (20 million km2) and a total population of 357 million. Compared that to the EU, 4.3 million km2 available land and a population of 508 million. Not to mention that vast wealth of US & Canada, compared to a country like Slovakia.
The simple fact is, there are too many refugees coming, the numbers are simply too big. Germany, this year expects 800k asylum application or 1% of their total population for this year alone. And this is only Germany we are talking about here. That's 15,000 new people per week, that need new housing, schools and healthcare. Not to mention the language/religious and cultural barriers.
There are some estimates that in Libya alone there are around 5 million people waiting to cross into the EU. And that's not even accounting for people that might cross though Turkey and other southern countries.
Personally the UK & the US should take the greater numbers, their the ones that were war mongering and started this whole mess in the first place. Now a poorer countries with their own problems, like Slovakia, Greece, and Hungary, countries that had nothing to do with middle east and it's bombing is now being slated for not taking in a greater number. True their excuse is deplorable but you must see their point of view.
I mean where is the UK in all of this???. They were the ones that were most supportive of the stupid war in the whole of EU and not they turn their backs and say its the EU problem. And just for the record, I live in the UK.
I personally think that this could potentially be the beginning of the end of the EU. This is a problem that cannot be fixed (people coming from two large continents) and with the no border rules and economic troubles already in the EU, this humanitarian problem will expose all of the weaknesses of the EU. It's only a matter of time before countries will start to want their border controls back and once that ball starts rolling it won't stop until EU if finished.
Thanks to all the governments around the world who started this mess. Awesome job guys, well done. Who should we go bomb next now? Maybe we should have a poll on this.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
If 200 people will bankrupt Slovakia or threaten their culture then a few Muslims are the least of their problems.
You do know right, if you want to expel any person, you need an country to accept them......
You can't expel someone if no country wants to take them. This is the same excuse that some immigrants in the EU are already using, they destroy all their document and then keep quite from which country they are from, thus avoiding deportation.
It's 200 now. Might be 2 million in a decade. That's what they are afraid off. And why should they be the ones paying the price of wars started by far richer countries that have now turned their back on the problem they created. Man those evil Slovakians. Who do they think they are.
The family of a good colleague of mine fled from Iran to Germany in 1979. Today, he is working on his Ph.D. in engineering. We regularly talk about politics and religion, and he is basically as liberal and almost as secular (certainly political, a notch less on the philosophical issues) as I am.
Anecdotal evidence and all, but stories like this really show me that the narrative of hordes of bone-headed, barbaric, and irredeemable conservative Muslims and Islamists standing in front of our gates, ready to tear down our society, is just silly.
Sorry for the bad Google translate, but here's another side of the story:
https://translate.google.com/transl...of-haar-leven-gevaar-liep/&edit-text=&act=url
The gist is that the majority of the Syrian refugees are well-fed and rich and not at all fleeing for their lives, because Turkey is a safe country, but just looking for a better future. And increasingly accompanied by fortune seekers from all over.
https://translate.google.com/transl...of-haar-leven-gevaar-liep/&edit-text=&act=url
The gist is that the majority of the Syrian refugees are well-fed and rich and not at all fleeing for their lives, because Turkey is a safe country, but just looking for a better future. And increasingly accompanied by fortune seekers from all over.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Not saying Trash was entirely right in what he said, but he did say the UA Eand Saudi...and they really arent.
Its great Jordan, Turkey and Egypt are stepping up...but the fact is the richest countries in the region just aren't pulling their weight.
Many of the Syrian refugees are well-fed and have a good education, but from my experience they fled because they want a few years of safety. They majority want to return eventually, but IS is so damn scary and are monsters. They pillage and plunder, murder... it's not pretty I can assure you.
Winnie the Pimp
Member
Sadly that is probably part of the reason why they are in fact, the richest in the region. They look out for THEIR interests first and foremost
Miles Quaritch
Member
Well fed and educated and trying to escape a group that would happily flog and behead them for wearing the wrong clothes or saying the wrong thing or being gay or not conforming to their views of normal.
Why leave out the most crucial aspect of why they are fleeing?
And so what if they are well fed and educated? Are people that stupid that they think these people won't have had the same kind of life as they've led or have had access to good nutrition and education?
Jesus. What a stupid ass line of reasoning.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Totally, before you know it they'll have implemented Sharia law and Slovakia will be 100% Muslim just like Birmingham.
The unfortunate thing is that many people in Europe do have these fears. Irrationally thinking their way of life will be overrun by immigrants. Muslim immigrants being the number one fear.
In Europe you don't get citizenship just by being born there, unlike the US or Canada
Germany 2013 - 127k
Germany 2014 - 200k
Germany 2015 - 800k
If this year prediction are true, Germany will have received more than 1.1 million asylum seekers in 3 years. And the Immigration is not slowing down, but increasing. For next year, Germany figure could easily be over 1 million.
The two million is a figure I just threw out for Slovakia. But if the rate of immigrants continue, it could potentially be proven to be true, especially if you take the whole decade into account.
One thing we can be sure off. The situation in the middle east or africa won't improve in a decade.
Oops. My bad. That's what I get for spending most of my life in North America. I start thinking North America = World.
If you're from a EU member state, then you can apply that countries citizenship within a few years if not sooner. I know that I can apply to be a dual-citizenship, since I been living in the UK for 10 years.
Things are slightly different here
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
UAE isn't even close to Syria, it's actually less distance to Bulgaria or Albania from Syria than it is to the UAE. They also just have essentially nothing to do with the conflict, where as, say, Britain and France are almost directly culpable (along with the United States). You have a point about Saudi Arabia, though.
Kenshin001
Member
Those people are living in Turkey. They are safe. One of the people ln that article was living in Dubai but the UAE wouldn't let him stay.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
I have an ethnic croatian father, thus have a croatian pass. I guess they could send me to croatia? lol. Not that I would mind....gorgeous country
Hasn't this happened in the past? Jews come to mind
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