"Deteriorate national unity and prestige"? I feel like I'm in the early 1900s.
Slovakia ready to receive Syrian refugees but only if they are non-muslim.
- Thread starter ElTorro
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If you're a majority Christian country, and you don't have separation of state, I consider you a theocratic state and therefore can accept you discriminating on the basis of religion. But when you guarantee freedom of religion in your country, then you cannot discriminate.
The refugee system is very different from an immigration system. People who apply on the basis of school or work with the intent to reside in a country, not only have to apply but pay fees. They usually have support systems, schools, jobs lined up. Refugees or asylum seekers are most often underskilled, undereducated and will have it ridiculously tough integrating. Most refugees barely even speak the language at times of the country they flee too.
This is bad on Slovakia's part because they guarantee freedom of religion. A Syrian Christian will have more in common with a Syrian Muslim than a Slovakian Christian.
The refugee system is very different from an immigration system. People who apply on the basis of school or work with the intent to reside in a country, not only have to apply but pay fees. They usually have support systems, schools, jobs lined up. Refugees or asylum seekers are most often underskilled, undereducated and will have it ridiculously tough integrating. Most refugees barely even speak the language at times of the country they flee too.
This is bad on Slovakia's part because they guarantee freedom of religion. A Syrian Christian will have more in common with a Syrian Muslim than a Slovakian Christian.
smells 1930-ish
Social contracts are between the state and its citizens not the state and any random person in the world.
It's in proportion to the islamophilia.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Indoctrination into a religion from a young age is a choice?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
No, and it's definitely hard to break free of that in those cases.
That said, I'm pretty sure some religious folks here would find the notion that they've been indoctrinated to be mildly insulting and condescending, whether or not it's their case.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
To say that GAF, of all places, is a place where Islam is being adored or even simply "defended" is simply laughable.
The word you are looking for in this case is "empathy".
Miles Quaritch
Member
Acceptable to hate the many for the actions of a few?
I'm not sure what you're saying here.
Kenshin001
Member
You can easily abandon that religion even when you are a kid. Think I was 10 when I became an atheist.
If it's pure indoctrination and not free choice then the right thing to do would be deprogramming.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Almost 2 million Syrian refugees in Turkey, damn.
And the Netherlands is worrying about 15.000. This is a human tragedy. I don't blame the people for fleeing Syria. It's a shithole right now with ISIS.
And the Netherlands is worrying about 15.000. This is a human tragedy. I don't blame the people for fleeing Syria. It's a shithole right now with ISIS.
GAF of all places?
Dude, there's a big internet out there. This place is moderate to the core.
No more than 'islamaphobia' actually means 'appropriately wary of a conservative culture shown to be incompatible with modern western nations and demonstrably aggressive and hostile toward outsiders'.
I guess we all like a little shorthand though.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Miles Quaritch
Member
Is it insulting? What else is it if it's not indoctrination?
So your experience applies to everyone?
If I could do it, why can't they? That's not how it works for a lot of people.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
And yet the person you are quoting specifically stated "on NeoGAF."
Maybe at least you should try quoting people more carefully before posting a bait and switch.
Terra Firma
Banned
Nope. It all began with the Arab spring movement, where people rose up against tyranny. Assad and his dynasty are far from riling religious tensions because their group is an extreme minority. Most people in Syria didn't care that they were being ruled by Alawis nor did the Assad dynasty care that the majority of their citizens were Sunnis.
With the wave of the Arab spring revolutionary movements sweeping the area, people thought it was an opportune time to replace autocratic rule with a democratic one. Libya had seen the overthrow of Gaddhafi, who did claim to be a Sunni Muslim. Mobarak also claims to be a Sunni Muslim but he was removed by popular movements. So, it was obvious that these uprisings were less about religious hegemony and more about populism and democracy. Assad just happened to show himself as a bloodthirsty lunatic. The religious aspect was brought forth by the rebel groups to draw international support from Muslims and that is when various Arab nations had imams caaling people for jihad to fight against Assad.
That is why you have so many different groups fighting Assad. You have Al Qaeda, Da'esh, the Naqshbandiyyah, and even highly secular groups fighting against Assad - many groups that agree on little except that Assad had to go (except Da'esh who thought a power grab was more important than helping the oppressed).
Or, maybe you should slow your roll and realise I was responding directly to the use of the phrase 'of all places'.
Some sense.
Terra Firma
Banned
If someone can get away without being banned for basically calling for the deaths of refugees as many have done in this thread simply because of their religion and if someone can get away with saying that Islamophobia is not another form of bigotry like you just did, this place isn't really moderate.
It's being defended by plenty. We get the usual "you're racist if you criticize Islam" posts. Which again is wrong because Islam is a religion that spans from Indonesia to Albania.
I found it interesting that you, Rusty, Terra, manimthemirror etc. skipped this post:
Have Saudi Arabia or Kuwait provided "education and health care" for Christians or Shia? Plenty of money and room going around in Saudi Arabia, U.A.E., Kuwait etc. to provide shelter to these refugees.
I'd love to know what this education entails.
Why don't they provide shelter to displaced Christians, Shia and other religious sects? At the end of the day the vast majority of the Middle East is Sunni and the powers that be will not.
Making this an issue about little Slovakia will only further tensions.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
And yes? What about it? You're responding to his quote that specifically stated Islamophobia has grown unchecked on NeoGAF, by saying so does the Islamophilia--one can logically surmise that what you're saying in response to that is in NeoGAF Islamophilia has also grown in comparison to the Islamophobia.
And I responded: to say that GAF is a place where Islamophilia is a sentiment that is encouraged or even harbored by most of its members is simply laughable.
I don't see how this is such a difficult thing to grasp.
Whatever, we're talking in circles. It's not important.
Are you assuming that just because I dislike how these refugees are refused help because of their religion that I also automatically condone poor treatment of Christians by Saudi Arabia? What makes you think that I or Rusty or Maninthemirror also wants that to happen? Just because we're Muslims? No need to beat around the bush by saying "you find it interesting."
Kenshin001
Member
Millions of people have become atheists so it can't be difficult for everyone.
Miles Quaritch
Member
And those people are usually brought up in an environment were religious influence over their lives and in society is diminishing by the day and it's seen as regressive for the state to push religious ideals as the norm.
If they would drop their religion would you accept them in your country?
im not one to use whataboutism's but is the US taking refugees? None of this shit would have happened if the US didn't destabilise the entire region.
And on the op, I don't agree with what the guy is saying, however, muslims have failed to interrogate in western europe so maybe that is where he is coming from.
And on the op, I don't agree with what the guy is saying, however, muslims have failed to interrogate in western europe so maybe that is where he is coming from.
That seems like an oversimplification. Egypt and Tunisia are really not the same, precisely because they were not ruled by an ethnic/religious minority. Libya might be, but it's a tribal country and see in what state it is now. From the outset the Alawi and Christians were afraid that there would come an ethnic reckoning, because Assads cronyism did very much work out in their favor and they have been greatly proven right. These people are fleeing because they would be cleansed if they don't. The Arab spring might have sparked it, but in terms of ethnic conflicts something like Rwanda might be a better example than Egypt.
There isn't a global distribution network for refugees. Each refugee flees wherever he or she can and feels safer.
EU decided on distributing the refugees to all the countries because the previous rule was no longer working. Mostly because you can't fuck the Greeks on one part and ask them to do the dirty work for you on the other hand. So Slovakia takes 200 refugees that probably would want to go in Germany or UK or Scandinavia.
alexandros
Banned
The world is such a terrible place.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Then you've got language barriers, they won't like the food, they won't like the weather, there's non religious cultural differences, they might be too traumatised from seeing people being beheaded, drowned and thrown off buildings to work and be productive members of society.
I don't know...
I don't really expect him to be honest.
I never implied you or any of the posters I mentioned condone poor treatment of Shia or Christians by Saudi Arabia or Sunni Muslims in general.
Most rational people know you will not get a welcoming party in Saudi Arabia if you're Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Shia, Atheist etc.
Saudi Arabia is not a welcoming country.
My issue is the consistent deflection of arguments and avoidance of the issue at hand.
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, U.A.E, Bahrain all have a ton of money and plenty of room to shelter these refugees. They're a lot closer than Slovakia too.
So why don't they? They shelter specific groups of Sunni Muslims but they're not taking anyone else.
And those Sunni Muslims they harbor are "educated and sheltered."
So the issue at hand is deflected to little Slovakia as opposed to Saudi Arabia or the U.A.E. and that's where the focus should be.
Kenshin001
Member
I don't really care about a person's religion. I'm saying that unlike being born black, religion is a choice. You can choose to be Muslim, Christian or atheist. Well maybe it is a bit more difficult to in Islamic countries because if you openly convert from Islam you get the death penalty or whatever. That's something Muslims need to stand up against amongst a litany of other problems.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Well... it's a good place as well. Case in point: here we are next to our PS4s and PCs and Xboxes... news like this kind of makes you appreciate what you have, isn't it?
Are you sure you're not the one doing the deflecting by asking that we speak about ABC when the thread is about EFG? It's like "look, these refugees are being religiously discriminated" and you respond with "oh yeah but what about Saudi Arabia?"
Although yes, Islamic countries--or fuck, any and all countries--can and should do better.
But that's the topic at hand, refusing refugees based on their religion.
true. There is nothing stopping the US saying this refugee crisis is out of control, we will take x amount.
Kenshin001
Member
I'm not Slovakian and my country doesn't discriminate based on religion. I can understand why Slovakia does discriminate against Muslims and in favour of Christians though since historically there has been animosity with Muslims, Christians will be easier to integrate, there is no risk of radicalism, Christians have nowhere to go in the ME, Muslims have other options etc.
SolidusDave
Member
To be fair, in a Muslim environment you have a high chance of getting killed for leaving Islam / denouncing God. So unless you're pretending to be officially still in (which would not let you immigrate in the OP's scenario. Though I'm not sure we can still discuss this as Slovakia anyway already rolled back and said the state itself won't discriminate by religion
), you're out of luck.Terra Firma
Banned
Again, it was little to do with religion especially since the religious heads appointed by Assad were all Sunnis. There were even well known Sunni scholars - even those NOT placed by the Assad regime - that came out in his support initially. The mufti of Syria is a Sunni and a staunch supporter of Bashar. Some of these scholars were even assassinated because they supported the regime such as the well-known scholar Ramadan al-Bouti.
And as I said earlier, the majority of the refugees are Sunnis escaping Assad. Da'esh, etc. do not have the power to displace such a large number of Sunnis. Only reason Da'esh keeps making the news is because of their brutality and because of the media focus upon them, meanwhile the death count due to Assad's forces are merely statistics.
I too wish it never broken away from Czechland
Yeah it would help our hockey and soccer teams I suppose. Could use Hossa, Tatar and Chara. A decent goalie too.
Accept refugees irregardless of their religion or ethnicity. But then swiftly expell them if they do shit like this.
Yes, there's a problem of bringing into your country people whose ideas are antitethical to modernity. I do not want to import foreign bigotry, we have more than enough local-grown one. But I certainly do not like this "guilty until proven innocent" type of mindset, for it implies that every single muslim on Earth is just 2mm away from becoming an ISIS member. That's horribly prejudiced.
So yes, I am willing to give refugees the benefit of doubt, and no, that is not the same as giving them carte blanche, like the far right likes to equate.
Yes, there's a problem of bringing into your country people whose ideas are antitethical to modernity. I do not want to import foreign bigotry, we have more than enough local-grown one. But I certainly do not like this "guilty until proven innocent" type of mindset, for it implies that every single muslim on Earth is just 2mm away from becoming an ISIS member. That's horribly prejudiced.
So yes, I am willing to give refugees the benefit of doubt, and no, that is not the same as giving them carte blanche, like the far right likes to equate.
It's been fucked for centuries. The Golden Age of Islam has long since past.
Yes, little to do with religion.
Any stats to back this up?
Syria is 75% Sunni Islam. How could 75% of the population be escaping Assad?
Are Shia or Christians escaping Bashar Al Assad or Jahbat Al Nusra? The uprising was started by Sunni Muslims.
I would be interested in data regarding reasons to flee too, I honestly don't know.
The majority of the refugees in Turkey do seem to be displaced by the ISIS and Kurdish back and forths. I could imagine most fugitives fleeing to Lebanon and Iraq to be Shia too.
nephilimdj
Member
Only been 3 weeks since last bomb went off in Macedonia (was at a public pool car park), I can see how its a tough situation of ethics and morals when it comes to allowing those in who could be radicals.
Mailenstein
Member
What I wanted to say is, they remember the past and therefor they don't wanna help any Muslim out I guess. It will be a hot mess on the Balkans. It's already heating up in Bosnia.
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