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[Hyperactivity]

No. That was my point. There is nothing stopping Muslims from going to Muslim countries since that is already happening.

Many of those countries could barely bear the brunt of the current number of refugees.

Should Lebanon have to take in any more?

 

[Mailenstein]

So Muslims should be discriminated against...

I fail to see where I said that. I'm just explaining their mindset and their reasoning for their actions. Same thing will happen to the Yazidi people. They will tell stories about ISIS for the next hundred generations and it will end up in hatred against all Muslim people.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

What kind of Bullshit reason is that. As much as I think some things the EU is doing is utter bullshit, but when some members of the EU with easier refugee laws accept too many refugees they can handle, the EU should step in and legally force Slovakia and other EU members to ease their refugee laws.

 

[antonz]

Its heartbreaking the refugee crisis. More should have been done to avert this situation getting as bad as it has. There are a lot of really good people who are suffering at home because of the bad and now when they try to escape they suffer because of the bad more.

Muslim Integration has been an issue in many cities across Europe so its not unexpected that bad eggs are beginning to ruin it for the good people. You have cars being blown up, multiple grenade attacks and more in and that's just in one city in Sweden.

 

[Retromelon]

Please quote me kenshin if you want to stop confusing people

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Men, women and children are being turned away from the borders as they try to save their lives.

As bad as Islam is, I don't think that argument justifies this move from the Slovakian government.

 

[Animator]

why doesn't Middle East countries step up efforts to help neighboring refugees?

It's fun to poop on Europe while Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait don't give a fuck

Are you fucking serious? Do you know how many Syrian refugees are in Turkey right now?

 

[Maninthemirror]

Its heartbreaking the refugee crisis. More should have been done to avert this situation getting as bad as it has. There are a lot of really good people who are suffering at home because of the bad and now when they try to escape they suffer because of the bad more.

Muslim Integration has been an issue in many cities across Europe so its not unexpected that bad eggs are beginning to ruin it for the good people. You have cars being blown up, multiple grenade attacks and more in and that's just in one city in Sweden.

that one city is a predominanly muslim neighbourhood which is a victim of those attacks. those are gang warfares not related to religion. are we to blame hispanics for the drug gangs in US?

 

[m_shortpants]

Are you fucking serious? Do you know how many Syrian refugees are in Turkey right now?

Not only that, but the refugee camps are serious. Like full blown cities with supermarkets.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Are you fucking serious? Do you know how many Syrian refugees are in Turkey right now?

Didn't you notice he's not coming back? That's the symptom of "I'm-talking-out-of-my-arse-but-oh-shit-they-corrected-me!" syndrome.

 

[Retromelon]

Fuck the comment above me is making me nervous.

 

[Jeels]

What a cheap, disgusting way of condoning this kind of behavior.

"Oh it's fine that those refugees get refused entry since MECCA SEE SEE SEE"

What are you at, a kindergarten?

Check out the post history...it becomes clear.

Not surprised to see racism in Europe.

 

[speculawyer]

Herp Derp? Lol answer the question . Is it true yes or no that the biggest casualties in all these conflicts by and large are Muslims themselves irrespective of sect.

Yes, Muslims kill a LOT of Muslims! They are indeed their own worst enemies. So Muslims should understand more than anyone else why others are a little wary of Muslims.

Do you believe the Syrian Revolution began with Isis people? Do you think those gassed by Assad were Isis supporters ? There can't even be a spin in that question. Most of those who suffer are civilians who want a practical revolution and are stuck between the government and militants fire.

Did I say it started with ISIS people? No. You are a strawman king. Constantly implying nonsense and asking irrelevant questions.

Have you thought about the fact that dictatorship and your most beloved pew poll Apendix D itself said by an average of 75% in all these Muslim countries that the people in power suck ?

Ease up on your anger . . . it is causing you to write sentences that can't quite be parsed. Yes, they often have governments that suck. And then you can help them knock off a dictator like Quadaffi but then are unable to form a better government and it devolved into a civil war between different Islamic groups. They knocked out Mubarak . . . and then replaced them with the Muslim brotherhood that started trampling on the rights of others and eventually got overthrown. And you know there are tons of Islamists just chomping at the bit to overthrow the Saudi Kingdom. So just getting rid of the leader doesn't fix things . . . I think a problem is . . . .

The same group said religious parties would by an average of 25-30% be more helpful. It's a clear disconnect. So yes nearly all are caused by civil strife, look at the economies and happiness index in these countries and they are nowhere near other countries. Unhappiness breeds contempt, contempt breeds irrational behavior, irrational behavior breeds terrorism.

Here's my view . . . mixing church & state is just a fundamentally bad idea. People will NEVER all agree how a religion should be interpreted. So you will always have a minority of people who feel that god is being disrespected and treated improperly. And since we are talking about their god, it is serious business and thus allows for overthrow. It is best if religion is not part of the state. Let everyone practice their own religion exactly how they think it should be practiced. No imposition by the state of any religious views edicts.

And it is not like this is an anti-Islam thing . . . Europe was filled with terrible religious infighting for CENTURIES. Christians killing & torturing Jews. These Christians killing those Christians. There was still a full blown Catholic v. Protestant thing in Northern Ireland up until somewhat recently. And there are still period fights between religious groups. But moving to secular states and allowing everyone to worship privately however they wish has helped calm things down.

And here we again with the misinformation that the prophet of so and so was a warlord because that's what the blogs have taught me.

No, it was actually an Iranian Muslim that told me that. But here is Wiki's summary of his military career:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_Muhammad

You don't even know the definition of the words jihad if you use Glenn Beck's dictionary on Islam.

Let's take a look at Wiki again.

Jihad (English pronunciation: /dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جهاد‎ jihād [dʒiˈhæːd]) is an Islamic term referring to the religious duty of Muslims to maintain and spread the religion and subdue non-muslims through terror and violence as commanded throughout the Koran, e.g. Sura 9:5 "...kill the non-muslims wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush." Sura 9:29 "Fight against those who...[are not muslim]...until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

Now sure . . . I know YOU have a different interpretation. But you don't get to define all of Islam.

I have seen that in the course of 2 years you have refused to study the Quran itself so I can only say as long as you are uneducated on a subject and have a confirmation bias you cannot provide a factual statement and this is just one of those cases.

You know who needs a lesson in the broader interpretations of Islam? You. You follow a hippie-dippie sect of Islam that is much mellower than Salafists & Wahabbists. And that's great. I wish there were more like you.

But I find it quite strange. You are like abused spouse to the faith. Tens of thousands of if Muslims would be fine if you got killed for being an apostate due to your particular interpretation of Islam . . . and yet you defend them. I find that quite odd.

And what about the great god of ultimate mercy, Allah? He's got some power, right? If your interpretation of Islam is so correct then why does Allah allow Islamic State to run around the desert raping little girls and chopping people's heads off? Why? As an atheist, I don't think Allah is a real deity and that some people who believe in Allah read the Quran and decided that this is the way it should be interpreted. Thankfully, their interpretation is a very small minority. How do you explain why Allah allows IS to exist?

I'm sure you've got some convoluted rationalization for it. Maybe it is the Djinn in the desert are causing it. I dunno. But I don't think you are going to be able to provide a good evidence and logic based explanation.

So we all have to agree to disagree. And that's cool. Just as long as no one steps on other people's rights. And that is what I worry about it due to the inherent combined religion/law/state view of much of Islam. Saudi Arabia has lots of laws that just don't work in Europe. Iran has lots of laws that just don't work in Europe.

I want to find a way that everyone can get along . . . gays, atheists, Muslims, women, novelists, Christian, lesbians, Hindus, Jews, cartoonists, etc. But one of those seems to get into conflicts with all the others . . . so I think it needs to get discussed and we all need to look for solutions.

 

[Retromelon]

I'm sure you've got some convoluted rationalization for it. Maybe it is the Djinn in the desert are causing it.

Spoiler

I am just an outside observer

 

[RustyNails]

Holy shit, that wiki link for Jihad, the first few paragraphs, is the most biased garbage I have read in a long time. I swear that trash wasn't there the last time I visited that link.

 

[Laughing Banana]

It's disgusting how some of you are treating this humanitarian crisis as a platform to launch your "I-Hate-Islam" campaign :/ Or how it is coloring your perspective so much that you can find it in your heart find it really okay rejecting people fleeing from humanitarian crisis just because their religion of choice :/

 

[mantidor]

Where are all the European gaffers that get on their high horse about america's race issues.

I really don't want to add more to the fire but I have to point it out: muslims aren't a "race".

 

[m_shortpants]

snip

From that wikipedia link:

Modern confusion regarding the meaning of this term arises due to the efforts of Muslim apologists and other supporters of Islamic terror and genocide; they frequently assert that jihad is merely a term denoting inner struggle and self-improvement.

The word jihad appears frequently in the Quran,[1] often in the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of God (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)", to refer to the act of striving to serve the purposes of God on this earth through violence, terror, and war.[2][3][4][5]

Wow, seems like a really impartial article. This is why you don't use wikipedia.

 

[effzee]

It's almost funny.

We have water and food for people who are starving and dying of thirst, but only if they are not Muslim. Pretty sure some of GAF would condone that viewpoint too. It would be interesting to see how far you could stretch it before they actually felt some sympathy.

You would think people could control their bigotry (however they want to rationalize it) for refugees but nope. Fuck off people we don't like. Better you die than live with us.

You are a good man Bio. I'm angry at myself for clicking on this thread but it's always a pleasure too see fellow nfl gaf brethren.

The world is a scary sad place. I can't read all the horrors or look at pictures without thinking of my son. It's just too much.

 

[speculawyer]

Holy shit, that wiki link for Jihad, the first few paragraphs, is the most biased garbage I have read in a long time. I swear that trash wasn't there the last time I visited that link.

Yeah, I think you are right. It does look like some real anti-Muslim people probably edited most recently.

But the broader point still stands. The term is interpreted by many people in different ways. And one can certainly not agree with that particular interpretation. But that type of interpretation is certainly not irrational and is followed by many.

 

[idlewild_]

Holy shit, that wiki link for Jihad, the first few paragraphs, is the most biased garbage I have read in a long time. I swear that trash wasn't there the last time I visited that link.

Amusingly, it looks like the notes left for the edits that added the biased language were "Removed inaccurate political propaganda" and "Removed politicized, pro-terror content; added relevant citations from Koran".

edit: wow, that user's contribution history.

 

[speculawyer]

It's disgusting how some of you are treating this humanitarian crisis as a platform to launch your "I-Hate-Islam" campaign :/ Or how it is coloring your perspective so much that you can find it in your heart find it really okay rejecting people fleeing from humanitarian crisis just because their religion of choice :/

Look. I think all the refugees should be treated humanely. They should be given food, water, medical care, etc. I think various countries need to figure out their own responses to the crisis.

However, I don't think any country is under any obligation to permanently accept refugees coming to their shores. I think that is bad policy for the home countries of the refugees. It enables them then to just to continue with shitty policies that cause these problems.


I don't like how I try to have a nuanced discussion on religious interpretations and church/state separation but then get told that I want all Muslims to die. That's complete bullshit. I understand if you get offended by some things that I say because I don't believe in your faith and from my perspective it is just nonsense. Of course you have to accept that your holy books says that I should be killed, I'm going to hell, I should be forced to pay a special tax, etc. and that offends me. Religion is inherently divisive. Try to rise above the things we agree to disagree on.

 

[Azih]

Yes, Muslims kill a LOT of Muslims! They are indeed their own worst enemies. So Muslims should understand more than anyone else why others are a little wary of Muslims.

Replace Muslims with Blacks there and get a sense of how crazy the thing is that you have just said.

 

[Toxi]

Amusingly, it looks like the notes left for the edits that added the biased language were "Removed inaccurate political propaganda" and "Removed politicized, pro-terror content; added relevant citations from Koran".

"I am a rational and unbiased observer!"

 

[Lamel]

Wow at the direction this thread is taking. Similar thing happened in the recent ISIS thread as well.

God damn people, some of you sound hateful as fuck and it is really transparent. Not every thread involving muslims has to turn into a "Islam sux" fest.

 

[kittoo]

I am from Czechland, we used to be one country with Slovakia. The attitudes towards Islam are 100% negative here. Nobody I know is positive towards accepting muslim immigrants. It's combination of things, like:

- country being 80+% atheist, knowing what Koran has to say about nonbelievers
- seeing atrocities done in the name of Islam every other day on the news
- seeing the number of rapes and general crime being perpetrated by immigrants in Sweden and the like
- seeing stuff like atheist bloggers being regularly hacked to death by machetes in Bangladesh
- seeing people getting decapitated in Islamic state
- seeing statistics from Pew research like the amount of muslims supporting killing apostates, instituting Sharia etc

People see being against Islam as common sense here. And it is of course true that most people don't know many muslims personally.
On the other hand, people seem to have no problem with accepting people from Ukraine, Vietnamese are accepted with open arms etc.

And as I said earlier, in my personal opinion, that's understandable. Integrating Muslims has been a problem everywhere. Of course the problem hasn't been with ALL the Muslims, but definitely a very large number of them. And its not just with Europe. You don't see people going up in arms about Hindu or Buddhist refugees/immigrants. Because they integrate much better and indulge in comparatively much lesser crime, even if the socioeconomic conditions are same. I find it very surprising that a majority of gaf just wants Europe to accept all the refugees. The results, demographic or social or strategic, can be humonogous, especially after a few decades, given the lopsided birth rates. Why is gaf so irrational about this?

 

[Poodlestrike]

And as I said earlier, in my personal opinion, that's understandable. Integrating Muslims has been a problem everywhere. Of course the problem hasn't been with ALL the Muslims, but definitely a very large number of them. And its not just with Europe. You don't see people going up in arms about Hindu or Buddhist refugees/immigrants. Because they integrate much better and indulge in comparatively much lesser crime, even if the socioeconomic conditions are same. I find it very surprising that a majority of gaf just wants Europe to accept all the refugees. The results, demographic or social or strategic, can be humonogous, especially after a few decades, given the lopsided birth rates. Why is gaf so irrational about this?

Can you cite sources for... uh, any of this?

 

[Retromelon]

Wow at the direction this thread is taking. Similar thing happened in the recent ISIS thread as well.

God damn people, some of you sound hateful as fuck and it is really transparent. Not every thread involving muslims has to turn into a "Islam sux" fest.

Some people just despise religion in general and cant help themselves

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Replace Muslims with Blacks there and get a sense of how crazy the thing is that you have just said.

False equivalence. One does not choose their skin colour, but one certainly chooses one's religion.
Not that this would justify discrimination, mind. But I find it tiring to see comparisons between criticism of religions and ideologies and racism. It's fallacious.

 

[Poodlestrike]

False equivalence. One does not choose their skin colour, but one certainly chooses one's religion.
Not that this would justify discrimination, mind. But I find it tiring to see comparisons between criticism of religions and ideologies and racism. It's fallacious.

It's really not, though. Religion is a part of identity. It's not predetermined, but that doesn't make discrimination based on it any more acceptable.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Wow at the direction this thread is taking. Similar thing happened in the recent ISIS thread as well.

God damn people, some of you sound hateful as fuck and it is really transparent. Not every thread involving muslims has to turn into a "Islam sux" fest.

Because "Islam" is involved on these topic, at a significant level.

More so, the behavior of some Muslims are relevant to the topics.

The Syrian refugees are escaping a War largely fueled my other Muslims, same ones that wont do anything significant to help them.

These refugees are stuck with a few options; stay and risk certain death or go to Europe, because Jordan Turkey and Lebanon aren't good options anymore for understandable reasons, but Saudi Arabia, Iran, Gulf states aren't good options for very political, social and religious reasons.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Allowing a large number of Muslim refugees to enter your country may invite in a few unsavory characters, sure, but refusing to aid the destitute will only breed more hostility as Muslim children grow up remembering the nations that didn't help them in their time of need.

Still, I don't live in Slovakia, so it isn't my place to tell them how to run their country. I'm not the one who has to live with the consequences of this decision.

 

[Heshinsi]

Would ISIS muslim be allowed to pretend he is Christian for few years before making suicide attack by his faith ?

Ahh, I doubt ISIS dude gives a shit about lying when committing murder of civilians and suicide are bigger sins in his religion.

 

[Terra Firma]

Because "Islam" is involved on these topic, at a significant level.

More so, the behavior of some Muslims are relevant to the topics.

The Syrian refugees are escaping a War largely fueled my other Muslims, same ones that wont do anything significant to help them.

These refugees are stuck with a few options; stay and risk certain death or go to Europe, because Jordan Turkey and Lebanon aren't good options anymore for understandable reasons, but Saudi Arabia, Iran, Gulf states aren't good options for very political, social and religious reasons.

Most of the Syrian refugees are escaping Assad, not Da'esh. Assad's violence is not religiously motivated. It is the definition of secular tyranny.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Allowing a large number of Muslim refugees to enter your country may invite in a few unsavory characters, sure, but refusing to aid the destitute will only breed more hostility as Muslim children grow up remembering the nations that didn't help them in their time of need.

'Better let us in..... OR ELSE !!!'

This kind of vaguely threatening language would seem ridiculous if applied to any other group but given the potential for Muslim violence it's used here earnestly.

 

[Spikematic]

Some of the posts in this thread are incredibly immature and thoughtless. I encourage people who are using this as a platform to vent their anti-Islamic views to actually think a little before pressing the post button. There is absolutely no reason to bring down the quality of this forum with bigotry.

 

[Retromelon]

Hatred breeds hatred

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It's really not, though. Religion is a part of identity.

So? It's still a part that is chosen.

It's not predetermined, but that doesn't make discrimination based on it any more acceptable.

I said as much, didn't I?

 

[Norik]

Don't question Islam or say anything negative about Islam or you're a bigot. The religion is majorly screwed up but you can't say anything about it or the white knights come a running.

 

[Opto]

Don't question Islam or say anything negative about Islam or you're a bigot. The religion is majorly screwed up but you can't say anything about it or the white knights come a running.

No one's saying you can't look at the practices of religion and criticize it. But denying refugees based on their creed and their creed alone is a fucked up. Unless you think we should lump all 1.57 billion muslims in with ISIS

 

[speculawyer]

Replace Muslims with Blacks there and get a sense of how crazy the thing is that you have just said.

Not in the least. Blacks don't have deadly theological fights over who is practicing the most authentic form of blackness. Black is just a skin color. Islam is a set of beliefs and beliefs guide your behavior. Those beliefs are what's causing you to argue with me right now.

 

[Kastrioti]

Basically they got burned back then, never forgot about it and now they are returning the favor.

What favor is Slovakia returning? Slovakia like all Southeastern European countries were at perpetual war with the Ottoman Muslim Empire for 500+ years. Islam has never been kind to the people its subjecated especially in the Balkans.

I hope the best for the refugees but sending them to a Southeastern European country is in no ones interest.

Most of the Syrian refugees are escaping Assad, not Da'esh. Assad's violence is not religiously motivated. It is the definition of secular tyranny.

This is hilarious. ISIS is one of many Sunni Islamist factions in Syria and Iraq. They've gotten the most media attention but there were and still are plenty of other Sunni Islamist groups wanting to implement their version of Sharia Law on Syria. Maybe a bit more barbaric in the ways they execute or how they publicize it, all these Sunni Islamist groups follow the same ideology more or less.

Bashar Al Assad at least protected secular groups like Shia and Christians under his rule, and are still protected by the Syrian military. Better him than Jahbat Al Nusra.

Watch Ghosts of Allepo and get to the 5th part where you have Sunni Islamist judges from Jahbat Al Nusra are implementing their interpretation of Islam on the subjects and territory they hold.

 

[Ecotic]

Quite honestly I wouldn't be letting Syrian refugees in at all. They'll be a drain on the country's finances and resources for decades to come and deteriorate national unity and prestige. My own country has a hard enough time slowly lessening the power of Christian theocrats without admitting people from another conservative religion.

 

[michaelius]

Ahh, I doubt ISIS dude gives a shit about lying when committing murder of civilians and suicide are bigger sins in his religion.

Well his religion seems to be perfectly ok with murdering people as long as they are infidels last time I checked so I'm wondering if there's any safety basics to taking only Christian emigrants to prevent being infiltraded by ISIS sleeping agents.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Quite honestly I wouldn't be letting Syrian refugees in at all. They'll be a drain on the country's finances and resources for decades to come and deteriorate national unity and prestige. My own country has a hard enough time slowly lessening the power of Christian theocrats without admitting people from another conservative religion.

Jesus.

This thread is wretched and just gets worse.

Your prestige? You sound like one of thoe politicians that wants to give all homeless people bus tickets out of the city to "clean it up"

 

[Walpurgis]

It's disgusting how some of you are treating this humanitarian crisis as a platform to launch your "I-Hate-Islam" campaign :/ Or how it is coloring your perspective so much that you can find it in your heart find it really okay rejecting people fleeing from humanitarian crisis just because their religion of choice :/

The Islamophobia on neogaf has really gotten out of hand.

 

[spekkeh]

Most immigrants that come to Canada aren't well off. Many are refugees actually. I think the problem isn't the people but the environment that they are immigrating to. Sweden seems to be doing it right.

Great I give you four different reasons why the immigrants are different and your reaction is 'nuh uh', and Sweden is most definitely not doing it right.

In case of refugees it's really rather straightforward.

You're a poor schmuck who has to flee everything and doesn't have any money, you end up in a refugee camp right across the border, with hundred thousand other people in Jordan or Turkey, in the middle of a humanitarian crisis.

You're a comparatively rich person, maybe owned a store, managed to get out with large sums of cash (€5000 for these people is a shit load of savings to have access to), AND you have connections, you find someone to smuggle you and your family across the border. Greece is in tatters, you hop on the train and try to smuggle yourself across eastern european borders before you get to the part where you don't mind sitting in an asylum center for the next five years.

You're fucking loaded, you were a doctor or a lawyer, probably Christian or Alawi with high up connections, you arrange visa and plane tickets to Canada.

(Of course Syrian diplomas don't mean anything so you still end up in the Starbucks, but it's a better fate than the others.)

 

[Ecotic]

Jesus.

This thread is wretched and just gets worse.

Your prestige? You sound like one of thoe politicians that wants to give all homeless people bus tickets out of the city to "clean it up"

When countries admit people from war torn regions that lack proper socialization, have low education and future employment skills, and can't speak the language that country will damage its future competitiveness. A lot of resources have to expended to bring people like that up to speed, and much more than that if that process fails. It's ultimately an unnecessary risk to take.

 

[AIP]

I am from Czechland, we used to be one country with Slovakia. The attitudes towards Islam are 100% negative here. Nobody I know is positive towards accepting muslim immigrants. It's combination of things, like:

- country being 80+% atheist, knowing what Koran has to say about nonbelievers
- seeing atrocities done in the name of Islam every other day on the news
- seeing the number of rapes and general crime being perpetrated by immigrants in Sweden and the like
- seeing stuff like atheist bloggers being regularly hacked to death by machetes in Bangladesh
- seeing people getting decapitated in Islamic state
- seeing statistics from Pew research like the amount of muslims supporting killing apostates, instituting Sharia etc

People see being against Islam as common sense here. And it is of course true that most people don't know many muslims personally.
On the other hand, people seem to have no problem with accepting people from Ukraine, Vietnamese are accepted with open arms etc.

How is the view on Bosnian Muslims in Czech Republic?

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Most of the Syrian refugees are escaping Assad, not Da'esh. Assad's violence is not religiously motivated. It is the definition of secular tyranny.

kinda wrong

most are escaping Assad's bombings, but the ISIS takeover pushed a lot of Syrians, including Kurds Christians and other minorities out of the country

second: Assad is religiously motivated in a sense. Its an Alawite Shia minority rule Regime, supported by the Shia powers in the region. He, like Saddam and many so-called "secular" regimes in the region, use religion to divide and control the population.

Assad might not be motivated by raw Dogma, but its still a religiously motivated or fueled conflict.