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[jonhuz]

So i'm thinking of buying one to play online and sacrifice the smooth pad control system for a bit more precision.
Has anyone got one or intending to buy one? Being a third-party product, how does one go about configuring it, when the games don't acutally support it?

'Pre-Installed configurations for most FPS Best Sellers' what happens if this config is ass?

Help me, this is not an excuse for a part Halo thread either *honest*



product info

 

[Brofist]

It does also say "Fully programmable including advanced features such as Deadzone and Mouse Control Inversion"

That device alone is almost tempting me to buy an Xbox and Halo 2, I'll wait to hear some impressions though of people playing it with this.

 

[Yusaku]

I absolutely loathe the controller for FPS games, and I still say you're a cheap ass if you're just gunning for an advantage on online games.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I reckon that I'll buy this fucking thing, just so I can say that I tried it out. I have ZERO issues with playing Halo via an S-Type. I'm hoping for a way to use my beloved MS optical Trackball in one hand and the left side of an S-Type in the other, but i don't expect that will happen.

I did, after all, buy the FPS Master, and used it for a bit. If the stick tension was identical to the S, and if the buttons didn't require so much pressure, I prolly would have kept it.

 

[SyNapSe]

My first thought is to want to purchase this. Then I realized I have no clue how I could accurately control a mouse without it sitting on something solid. My couch wouldn't work anyway, and even if I wanted to sit on the floor.. I still can't imagine it working very well. You would basically need a desk or well a TV tray would work I guess.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I have no clue how I could accurately control a mouse without it sitting on something solid

 

[DaCocoBrova]

What is that?

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

eh, some damn thing I just grabbed off of Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...6-3219241?v=glance&s=office-products&n=228013

Seems pricey, but you get the idea.

 

[ravingloon]

Or do what I did when I used a mouse with the Dreamcast, I put a mouse pad on top of a dictionary.

 

[Joe]

obviously the accuracy is better with a mouse but i really enjoy playing fps on consoles with a pad.

 

[Drexon]

 

[Lyte Edge]

This might be a spoiler, but It's nothing too serious.

Spoiler

The controls in Halo 2 multiplayer are good, but since the battles are over _so_ fast (2-3 secs, not kidding) if someone comes up behind you, you're done for. I got that like 10 times during a game. Turned up sensitivity, couldn't steer. -_-

So this gadget could really lighten things up for ppl like me, but not me, I'm fucking poor.

Spoiler

You are probably going to be banned now.

 

[Gek54]

BAN!

 

[BuddyC]

My adapters shipped out earlier this week, so I should have impressions by Friday....though I (obviously) won't be testing them with Halo 2.

 

[jonhuz]

My adapters shipped out earlier this week, so I should have impressions by Friday....though I (obviously) won't be testing them with Halo 2.

Cool, so lik-sang has them in stock? Went to order earlier, but they say pre-order.

 

[BuddyC]

Cool, so lik-sang has them in stock? Went to order earlier, but they say pre-order.

Um, I don't know. I mean, I know they have some in stock, but they may just be for promo purposes.

 

[ravingloon]

http://gear.ign.com/articles/558/558944p1.html

IGN's reviewed it and gives it a thumbs up. Performance varies by game, but Halo works excellent.

 

[BuddyC]

Got mine this morning, but my USB -> PS2 adapter wasn't working right. Just picked up another one, here's hoping.

 

[BuddyC]

Alright. While I don't quite agree with IGN's overly glowing review, I can say that the SmartJoy Frag is a worthwhile investment for anyone who can't stand to play a FPS via controller. You'll spend some time tweaking it, but that's to be expected. More later.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Just tell me how it reconciles with Halo's maximum turn rate

 

[BuddyC]

Just tell me how it reconciles with Halo's maximum turn rate

That's what I'm off to mess with. It's too bad I can't test this with Halo 2, it'd be much easier to screw around with the settings. (Halo 2's controller settings are accessible from the pause menu.)

 

[BuddyC]

Okay, so this thing works so well with Halo that you could probably convince someone this was the way it was meant to be played (and some of you could very well argue it was).

All you do is crank the turn rate to maximum in Control Settings and you're set. A scroll across a mouse pad will turn you about 1 and 3/4 times, real quick, real nice. The Halo preset is just damn intuitive, with shift being crouch, mouse scroll - weapon change, clicking mouse scroll - grenade toss, etc.

I did have some problems though - for some odd reason, my keyboard would get phantom sticky keys. I'd let go of W and Master Chief would keep walking forward, or I'd jump once and he'd keep jumping. I swapped it with another keyboard and I haven't had a problem since. For the record, the problematic keyboard was one of those 9.99 GE PS/2 models.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

How in the hell can it beat the max turn rate? That's something that was programmed into the game.

Though, I usually play at 5, and I haven't used 9 or 10 in quite a while, so I may be forgetting how fast it is.

In any case, using a keyboard for controls is a step back from a gamepad offering you degrees of moevement speed. I don't guess there is a way to use a pad+trackball, eh?

 

[BuddyC]

How in the hell can it beat the max turn rate? That's something that was programmed into the game.

Though, I usually play at 5, and I haven't used 9 or 10 in quite a while, so I may be forgetting how fast it is.

In any case, using a keyboard for controls is a step back from a gamepad offering you degrees of moevement speed. I don't guess there is a way to use a pad+trackball, eh?

I don't know the specifics of how it works, so I really can't tell you. All I know is that when I move it aprox. 7 inches (can't find the ruler to measure the mouse pad I'm playing on), MC spins 1 and 3/4th times (that's an edit by the way, I screwed up in my first post). I've never played at a 10 before, so...I don't know. I'd venture you just forgot how fast a 10 was

Some games have issues with the lack of analog control, such as Rainbow Six 3. You're stuck going "slow" the entire time. And no, there's no way to use a pad+trackball, as far as I know.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I'm gonna have to mess around with one of these myself, though I'll likely stick to the pad.

I wonder what would happen if I put a N52 in there....

 

[BuddyC]

N52?

edit: Oh. Those.

I dunno how well that would work, I guess it would depend on how the N52 is configured (in software or on the unit itself). I'd venture a likely not - it doesn't seem like it has enough keysl...but you never know.

 

[LAMBO]

Get it!! You'll murder everyone.

 

[The Guivre]

Maybe I'm not hardcore enough to appreciate all the extra peripherals and such, but Halo and I'm supposing Halo 2 was made with the S - Type in mind. The turn rate limit is an example of that.

I'm also a little wary because when you factor in that there will likely be a slight aim assist included in Halo 2, just as their was in Halo. Since controllers are not as precise as mice it just makes sense.

In another point, I think this has the potential to start a lot of arguements on XBL. An example might be MechAssault, an old and tired title I know. But the glitch in the game based on the use of a 3rd party controller to get nearly unlimited jump jet usage and extra speed.

Imagine if you will, a few weeks from now you're in a game and you find yourself just destroyed by your opponent, every shot a head shot. Never catching someone with their back turned. I can already hear shouting matches and accusations flying about whether or not the mouse adapter is 'fair play'.

I've been part of these arguements before when it came to fighters and sticks (back when I was ignorant and all). Some ascribe to the idea that 'If it's there, use it' while others I suppose myself to an extent feel that some things just offer an unfair advantage, or at least unbalance the game.

At least the PC port of Halo took out that aim assist feature since mouse use was of course assumed. But I would expect Halo 2 would have some sort of aim assist to it. Couple that with a mouse, and I'd say you have a recipe for domination, and a lot of hot headed fights.

I'm on my way now to dig myself a trench. Because I get the feeling this post won't be well received by many, and perhaps get me into hot water.

 

[LAMBO]

And that N52 is total crap, not enough keys, use a keyboard.

Auto aim sucks as well

 

[BuddyC]

Maybe I'm not hardcore enough to appreciate all the extra peripherals and such, but Halo and I'm supposing Halo 2 was made with the S - Type in mind. The turn rate limit is an example of that.

I'm also a little wary because when you factor in that there will likely be a slight aim assist included in Halo 2, just as their was in Halo. Since controllers are not as precise as mice it just makes sense.

In another point, I think this has the potential to start a lot of arguements on XBL. An example might be MechAssault, an old and tired title I know. But the glitch in the game based on the use of a 3rd party controller to get nearly unlimited jump jet usage and extra speed.

Imagine if you will, a few weeks from now you're in a game and you find yourself just destroyed by your opponent, every shot a head shot. Never catching someone with their back turned. I can already hear shouting matches and accusations flying about whether or not the mouse adapter is 'fair play'.

I've been part of these arguements before when it came to fighters and sticks (back when I was ignorant and all). Some ascribe to the idea that 'If it's there, use it' while others I suppose myself to an extent feel that some things just offer an unfair advantage, or at least unbalance the game.

At least the PC port of Halo took out that aim assist feature since mouse use was of course assumed. But I would expect Halo 2 would have some sort of aim assist to it. Couple that with a mouse, and I'd say you have a recipe for domination, and a lot of hot headed fights.

I'm on my way now to dig myself a trench. Because I get the feeling this post won't be well received by many, and perhaps get me into hot water.

Nah, I agree here. These things are a godsend to people that honestly can't stand to use a controller with their FPS, but it's definitely going to unbalance online play.

 

[Bristow]

Maybe I'm not hardcore enough to appreciate all the extra peripherals and such, but Halo and I'm supposing Halo 2 was made with the S - Type in mind. The turn rate limit is an example of that.

I'm also a little wary because when you factor in that there will likely be a slight aim assist included in Halo 2, just as their was in Halo. Since controllers are not as precise as mice it just makes sense.

In another point, I think this has the potential to start a lot of arguements on XBL. An example might be MechAssault, an old and tired title I know. But the glitch in the game based on the use of a 3rd party controller to get nearly unlimited jump jet usage and extra speed.

Imagine if you will, a few weeks from now you're in a game and you find yourself just destroyed by your opponent, every shot a head shot. Never catching someone with their back turned. I can already hear shouting matches and accusations flying about whether or not the mouse adapter is 'fair play'.

I've been part of these arguements before when it came to fighters and sticks (back when I was ignorant and all). Some ascribe to the idea that 'If it's there, use it' while others I suppose myself to an extent feel that some things just offer an unfair advantage, or at least unbalance the game.

At least the PC port of Halo took out that aim assist feature since mouse use was of course assumed. But I would expect Halo 2 would have some sort of aim assist to it. Couple that with a mouse, and I'd say you have a recipe for domination, and a lot of hot headed fights.

I'm on my way now to dig myself a trench. Because I get the feeling this post won't be well received by many, and perhaps get me into hot water.

I absolutely agree with you. I'm sure the majority of competitive gamers in Halo 2 will end up buying the frag adapter if it becomes a big issue. You'll likely be able to tell if someone is using one. Sucks for people who don't know about it though, as they will be frustrated.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

And that N52 is total crap, not enough keys, use a keyboard

You're baiting me, that's what you're doing.

There's 23 key's without shift states. If you wanted, really really wanted, you could have 80 seperate functions on the N52, all big macros too.

How many keys do you need? A Dual Shock must seem like a pong paddle to you.

 

[The Guivre]

I absolutely agree with you. I'm sure the majority of competitive gamers in Halo 2 will end up buying the frag adapter if it becomes a big issue. You'll likely be able to tell if someone is using one. Sucks for people who don't know about it though, as they will be frustrated.

See... that's the problem. It's the old if you can't beat 'em join 'em thing. I DON'T want to have to buy the Frag adapter to be competitive with my fellow gamers. Fighters like DOA and SC series and all, I wouldn't raise a brow at the use of sticks, in fact that makes sense because the game was intended and designed for them. And I've encountered guys who can give a very good account of themselves in SC2 with a controller and Astaroth.

Halo 2 (while I'm sure it will pop up on PC) is not made with a mouse in mind. The developers didn't say "Hey guys, I've got a great idea! Forget that S-type crap. We need to get some mouse action going!"

The more I think about this the more it makes me apprehensive about going on XBL with Halo 2. I don't expect I'll be the best on the block or anything, and I certainly don't claim to be. I don't mind getting my ass kicked by someone because they know the game and they're good at it. I do mind signing on, getting on a match and just getting bent over the Warthog and reamed because some guy skipped down to Radio Shack and dropped a couple of bucks on something that wasn't intended to be used in the game.

And I don't want to generalize but I get the feeling that when I get reamed by these Frag owners, they're not going to be gracious about it saying "hey you did ok considering I had a mouse and aim assist on my side."

No, I reckon it'll take the route of those lovely sweet nothings whispered into a Merc's in SCT "Say you're my bitch.. just say it baby.. you're my little bitch aren't you?" <snap>

 

[Bristow]

No, I reckon it'll take the route of those lovely sweet nothings whispered into a Merc's in SCT "Say you're my bitch.. just say it baby.. you're my little bitch aren't you?" <snap>

That's just the nature of people who play on Live in general. The #1 tip to playing on Live is to turn off voice.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Fighters...I wouldn't raise a brow at the use of sticks, in fact that makes sense because the game was intended and designed for them.

Ha!!! It took me nearly three damn years to convince this guy to get him a stick. For three years he had the Monk drinkin' up his Mountain Dew before he cracked. Good times.

skipped down to Radio Shack

for now I think there all shipping over from China, so that'll restrict the flow quite a bit. I hope it stays that way.

No, I reckon it'll take the route of those lovely sweet nothings whispered into a Merc's in SCT "Say you're my bitch.. just say it baby.. you're my little bitch aren't you?" <snap>

close to using a smiley here...

 

[The Guivre]

Ha!!! It took me nearly three damn years to convince this guy to get him a stick. For three years he had the Monk drinkin' up his Mountain Dew before he cracked. Good times.

I don't know if I can claim to be fully converted.. My little universal Pelican pales in comparison to nearly any stick you'd find online that claims to be 'tournament grade'.

Perhaps one day I'll find myself holding the Frag in my hand, and an N52 in the other, listening to 12 year old kids scream and cry in my left ear (since that's how I wear my XBL headset) about how I'm cheating. And I'll leer a bit at the screen, and tell them to quit their damn whining and get back to school.

I'd like to imagine that it's at that exact moment, a me from an alternate reality. One who reisted the call of the dark side, the Frag side. Would teleport into my room Terminator style and give me the old RBYD (Run By, Your Dead) with some overly ornate sword, ending once and for all the life of a man who caved and sacrificed his 'gaming morals' all so that he could make the trash talking and reaming go away.

Either that or I'll settle for Monk just smackin' me upside the head with a can of RC.

If only there were a way to relegate things so that those who want to use the Frag can find other Frag users or at least those who want to take them on. Rather than me just stumbling into a game and finding myself pitted against unforgiving Frag users. Perhaps those of you who're more in the know can offer some glimmer of hope as far as finding a match I won't be pulling my hair out after feeling pissed off that some highschool kid with a Frag just called me his bitch and such.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

It's the Inside Joke Countdown !!

The bright side to all this is Bungie themselves. Live and Halo 2 are fully updatable, so if frag users (who don't hold the frag, BTW, they hold their mouse) become real nuisance, then I fully expect Bungie to step in and add measures to segregate the users. Maybe just different servers that we're on the honor system to join, maybe adding frag users to a list which can be called up, maybe even tracking how fast the players are turning and marking them as frag users, for that game or longer.

Bungie will not leave us hanging.

 

[Soundwave 2k4]

Okay, so this thing works so well with Halo that you could probably convince someone this was the way it was meant to be played (and some of you could very well argue it was).

All you do is crank the turn rate to maximum in Control Settings and you're set. A scroll across a mouse pad will turn you about 1 and 3/4 times, real quick, real nice. The Halo preset is just damn intuitive, with shift being crouch, mouse scroll - weapon change, clicking mouse scroll - grenade toss, etc.

excellent news dude. Mine hasn't shipped yet but I'm hoping it will in the next few days...or at the least by the time Halo 2 is out.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Generally I can't stand console FPS controls (the sniping in MGS2 substance finally swearing me off the concept) but strangely enough I think Halo 1 controlled a lot better with the original controller as opposed to S-type. Something about it being so big that it changes how you hold it; like those dual gun-trigger style PS2/XBOX controllers that I used to see in EB.

 

[Joe]

there goes the level playing field on xbox live.

 

[teepo]

The bright side to all this is Bungie themselves. Live and Halo 2 are fully updatable, so if frag users (who don't hold the frag, BTW, they hold their mouse) become real nuisance, then I fully expect Bungie to step in and add measures to segregate the users. Maybe just different servers that we're on the honor system to join, maybe adding frag users to a list which can be called up, maybe even tracking how fast the players are turning and marking them as frag users, for that game or longer.

Bungie will not leave us hanging.

or they won't allow them to play the game?

 

[Teddman]

Segregating games by analog stick sensitivity is definitely possible and wouldn't take much to implement, that'd more or less tell you who's using a SmartJoy.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i don't see how having a smartjoy would be cheating simply because i can't see it beating the turn ratio that's locked into the game... it may just may make you feel more comfortable, but i doubt it's going to be a real factor... then again, i play halo with my sensitivity on 10, and generally jack up sensitivities on most games as far as possible... and yeah, you do spin around pretty fast with the sensitivity on 10 with a pad in halo...

 

[border]

As I've said before, there never was a "level playing field" on Xbox Live. Any game that allows you to use a non-standard special accessory (DDR mat, fighter joystick, 5.1 sound system, driving wheel, voice communication headset) will give some advantage to people that use the special accessory. If you wanna play at the top of your game, then buy the peripheral. SmartJoy Frag is only thirty bucks, and it's compatible with far more games than an expensive dance pad or driving wheel. If you insist on this falsely contrived notion of a "level playing field", then learn to play the game with analog sensitivity at maximum. You'll have every advantage that the mouse and keyboard users have.

Bungie has hyped up their extensive game-matching system for Halo 2. It will only set you up to play against players with equal skills/stats. So if someone is dominating with a mouse and keyboard, then the chances are that you will never meet them anyway. The suggestion that a different control scheme immediately makes you GOD is ridiculous anyway. Play any PC game and you'll see plenty of idiots that don't know what the hell they're doing.

Apparently the device cannot be detected as anything other than a regular third party controller.....so yeah, I think the best they can do is try and filter users by analog sensitivity. Which will suck for people that actually have learned to play at high sensitivity levels..

 

[ravingloon]

I really have to agree with Border here. Stop the bitching people. Nothing's ever fair. How many mainstream gamers pipe their audio through their television? The vast majority. There's a huge advantage in an online shooter in being able to hear where bullets/enemies are coming from. This TOTALLY tilts the advantage. Same thing with the controller. The more hours a day you play these, the more accustomed you are to its sensitivity. So there's a huge advantage to the kids who play obscene amounts of hours per day. In my book this device actually levels the field by giving people who aren't freaks a way bypass this and shoot where they aim just like the kiddies.

 

[Teddman]

If you insist on this falsely contrived notion of a "level playing field", then learn to play the game with analog sensitivity at maximum. You'll have every advantage that the mouse and keyboard users have.

Yeah, because playing with a controller set to 10 sensitivity and playing with a mouse at 10 sensitivity are anywhere close to the same degree of control and accuracy.

 

[The Guivre]

This TOTALLY tilts the advantage. Same thing with the controller. The more hours a day you play these, the more accustomed you are to its sensitivity. So there's a huge advantage to the kids who play obscene amounts of hours per day.

Yeah... they call that advantage practice. And there are already controls for that, the skill level matching system to be exact.

Here's what you can do. Get yourself a Dual Shock adapter for your PC, and if you want you can add another adapter to the equation and set up your S-Type to your PC. Point is, put a console controller on you PC. Then pick an FPS, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Unreal 2k4, Quake 3, whatever. Then hop on line and see how things go. I'll lay odds that you find the experience less than fun.

If you can't stand to play an FPS with a controller, I'm sure Halo 2 will appear on your PC sometime, and without aim assist and intended for mouse use.

If there were a practical way to keep Frag users and controller users apart, I wouldn't care. But what will happen is this. I'll hop on XBL, start having a good time and then sure enough some shit head will cross my path and he'll have a Frag. For the next 10 or 15 minutes I'll hear the following.

"Man you suck"
"You're my bitch aren't you?"
"Holy shit you suck"
"Man, I'm the XBox Live pimp!"

The potential for this to lead to complete and utter shit heads ruining my XBL experience and the experience of others is huge. And what happens when tournament play comes up? Are Frags going to be allowed there? This whole thing just leads to arguements that never end, somewhat similar to this one.

 

[shuri]

I'll be getting one. I really dont care if other people dont want to make a investement or are not motivated enough to win.

 

[The Guivre]

I really dont care if other people dont want to make a investement or are not motivated enough to win.

I am motivated to win! Just not with a mouse and an adapter. Now, I'm not saying I'm going to be the next world champion of Halo, but nobody likes to lose and everyone likes to win.

This is why I resisted getting a stick for so long for the fighters I own. I didn't like the idea that in order to even have a snowball's chance in Hell of not getting smacked around like a bitch I had to go out and by hardware. I made my peace with sticks by justifying that Soul Calibur 2 and the like are INTENDED for use with arcade sticks.

Halo 2's aim assist feature clearly indicates that Halo 2 is INTENDED for use with controllers. Halo PC, no aim assist, intent? for mice, obviously.

I'm sure that I'll go the way of Unkasa (I think that's the right name) in the OXM thread, but like him, this is something I feel strongly about and so I guess I'm willing to endure the flogging.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

This is why I resisted getting a stick for so long for the fighters I own. I didn't like the idea that in order to even have a snowball's chance in Hell of not getting smacked around like a bitch I had to go out and by hardware. I made my peace with sticks by justifying that Soul Calibur 2 and the like are INTENDED for use with arcade sticks.

This post would serve me well, integrated into a pamphlet that I hand out at Gamestops and dwindling arcades. However, to be fair, we both know people who are better than either of us in SC2 and use pads. Dacain and select few of those who showed up in March's Game Junkie's are plenty good enough to be competitive. Knowledge and experience in a fighter trumps everything (that's why the Wavebird coudn't slow me down at your graduation party) but I still feel that since fighters are by and large designed to be played with sticks, that using a pad is simply giving you a constant handicap to work through. This is even more apt with 2D fighters.

I'm sure that I'll go the way of Unkasa

Not even. Your viewpoints are easily recognized and you're responsible enough to back yourself up with examples. Such behavior is beyond the trolls who just don't get Halo.