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[Joe]

i was smoking hydro almost every day of the week for about 3 years and it totally fried my brain. i quit for a while but i smoked for the first time in 8 months the other day.

i like smoking, i enjoy smoking but if you do it too much it just fucks up your head.

at least i wasnt the burnout/pothead type of person though. i tried to hide the fact that i smoked as much as possible, i hate it when people know im high.

 

[Loki]

That's just like, your opinion, man.



By the way - my post was a joke.

I know it's my opinion, and I wasn't preaching-- you asked a question, I answered it. I was just letting you know why, perhaps, there is a distinct lack of non-stoners in this thread.


And I didn't know your post was a joke-- I thought you were surprised that there were no posters saying they hadn't done drugs; I was just letting you know that the topic question sort of precluded any of us sober people from responding, unless we wanted to be jerks and stir up "trubble".

 

[Ford Prefect]

the real question is: Who hasn't smoked weed?

Well, I haven't. I don't know, I've never really had someone come out and ask me if I wanted to go and get high, but I'm not sure what I'd say if they did. All the praise in this thread makes it seem really great, but, it just seems kind of irresponsible, you know what I'm saying?

Society has a bad word out for stoners, and most stoners I know all follow that kind of hippie stereotype, which is not necessarily where I'd like to be. For one, my motivation is already shot to hell, and that's just natural for me, who the hell knows why. Maybe if I had some good friends who were toking it up, I'd join in, but I don't know.

Maybe others can understand the cautious attitude I have towards mind-altering substances?

 

[Nerevar]

Well, I haven't. I don't know, I've never really had someone come out and ask me if I wanted to go and get high, but I'm not sure what I'd say if they did. All the praise in this thread makes it seem really great, but, it just seems kind of irresponsible, you know what I'm saying?

Society has a bad word out for stoners, and most stoners I know all follow that kind of hippie stereotype, which is not necessarily where I'd like to be. For one, my motivation is already shot to hell, and that's just natural for me, who the hell knows why. Maybe if I had some good friends who were toking it up, I'd join in, but I don't know.

Maybe others can understand the cautious attitude I have towards mind-altering substances?

There is a certain social stigma that has been inappropriately tied to smoking marijuana. The history of this is pretty ridiculous, as corporate interests have pretty much dictated the political agenda in this area (fact: Marijuana is classified as a drug with zero medicinal properties in America, worse than cocaine and heroine and therefore much harder to study). It's one thing if you're against "mind altering substances" in general, but if you think things like zoloft or prozac are "ok" because they're prescribed by doctors, but weed is "bad" because it's illegal, then you need to educate yourself son.

And I have no problem with people not doing weed. I do have a problem with self-rightous pricks declaring their supremacy for not doing it, despite supporting the use of other "legal" mind-altering drugs that are proven to have much worse side effects. Refusing to think critically on a subject because you've been taught something all your life is laziness, pure and simple.

 

[Ford Prefect]

It's one thing if you're against "mind altering substances" in general, but if you think things like zoloft or prozac are "ok" because they're prescribed by doctors, but weed is "bad" because it's illegal, then you need to educate yourself son.

I would definitely like to hear some more of your thoughts on this, as I myself am prescribed to Zoloft, and my dad sells it, for that matter. If I may so, however, it does seem a bit radical to compare the two things, as having experienced Zoloft first hand, I can say (at least in my case) that its effects aren't that intense as what marijuana seems to present. Really the only thing I have noticed while taking Zoloft is that I don't get those sinking feelings of depression I used to get, but I'm not necessarily a happier person. If I was paying for it (which I'm not, since my dad works for Pfizer), I'm not sure I would continue the prescription.

Anyway, please expound, if you will, as it is a very interesting suggestion you make.

 

[Nerevar]

I would definitely like to hear some more of your thoughts on this, as I myself am prescribed to Zoloft, and my dad sells it, for that matter. If I may so, however, it does seem a bit radical to compare the two things, as having experienced Zoloft first hand, I can say (at least in my case) that its effects aren't that intense as what marijuana seems to present. Really the only thing I have noticed while taking Zoloft is that I don't get those sinking feelings of depression I used to get, but I'm not necessarily a happier person. If I was paying for it (which I'm not, since my dad works for Pfizer), I'm not sure I would continue the prescription.

Anyway, please expound, if you will, as it is a very interesting suggestion you make.

Marijuana is perhaps the most poorly-studied drug in regular use throughout the world. We know it has some mind-altering properties, but we don't know exactly what they are. We can't say for certain that there even are long-term affects, if any at all. Of course there is a certain "culture" that embraces marijuana use and adopts a specific look and attitude, but that certainly doesn't mean that smoking weed leads to you being a rastifarian. In fact, I smoked quite a lot of pot in college, and the people I smoked with were extremely rarely of that variety. Furthermore, me and my friends smoked regularly and we were never "unmotivated" or any of the other widely-reported side effects unless we were actually high. All the evidence I've seen regarding pot seems to demonstrate that it is a short-term drug, in that it gives you a high and, once that high is gone, it's effects are virtually washed from your system. This is in comparison to numerous anti-depressents, which are known to medically increase the risk of suicide, especially in young patients. But people think they're "ok" because they're prescribed by doctors. I guess what I'm saying is that lots of people condemn marijuana use without any facts besides those myths that were propagated by such 60's scare films as "reefer madness". Every mind-altering drug is going to affect you in some way, and accepting some of them as "good" and some of them as "bad" based on the simple legality of them is insane (especially when the legality of a substance is really only dictated by the marketability of a drug by a major pharma).

Edit: Furthermore, pot is a non-addictive substance (notwithstanding behavioral addictions), which is in contrast to a lot of other prescription drugs that are commonly used.

 

[Megafoo Chavez]

DMT = the most interesting drug i can think of right now. I want to talk to demons sometimes

 

[Belfast]

This is in comparison to numerous anti-depressents, which are known to medically increase the risk of suicide, especially in young patients.

DING DING DING. *...especially in young patients.* This is the #1 reason why you see the suicide problem. These drugs are prescribed for people WHO SHOULD NOT BE TAKING THEM. Most anti-depressants of this sort are intended for adult bodies and adult minds who can generally handle the effects better. By the way, it doesn't just cause people to randomly up and commit suicide. What the anti-depressants are supposed to do is give a person the energy to go out and do things. In the cases of people who cannot handle the drugs (young people who should not be taking it, it has nothing to do with the drug itself), it is basically giving them the energy to commit suicide, as opposed to being too depressed and unmotivated to actually have carried it out before hand. So it doesn't make someone suicidal, it merely gives them the will/energy/ability to actually go through with it. Once again, I shall reiterate, that it is because these drugs are being prescribed for people who are simply too young to handle them. This + puberty + social stresses of middle/high school = danger. Is this still a problem? Yes, but it is entirely dependent on the doctor and who he/she is prescribing the drugs for, not the drugs themselves.

DO NOT. DO NOT. DO NOT compare Zoloft, et al, to pot.

 

[Nerevar]

DO NOT. DO NOT. DO NOT compare Zoloft, et al, to pot.

Why? Can you actually cite any study that has demonstrated Pot having an affect on someone that is anywhere near similar (in terms of being that bad)? I'm serious. Because I haven't seen any. My point is that a mind-altering drug is a mind-altering drug. I'd say that you're acting significantly biased because a) you're on an anti-depressent which is legal and b) pot is illegal, poorly studied, and has an extremely negative social stigma attached to it. They're all doing something very similar. I can sit here and, pretty confidently, say pot certainly has some uses, and it's denigration in mainstream American culture is both hypocritical and absurd given our near-glorification of alcohol and (until recently, at least) cigarettes - drugs that have much-worse proven effects on the human body. This is on top of our glorification of mind-altering prescription drugs (anti-depressents, ADHD problem solvers, etc.), which we take for granted are acting in a very similar way.

In the cases of people who cannot handle the drugs (young people who should not be taking it, it has nothing to do with the drug itself), it is basically giving them the energy to commit suicide, as opposed to being too depressed and unmotivated to actually have carried it out before hand.

And whoa, I just realized this, what you said has nothing to do with being young. You're making the argument that if someone is suicidal, this drug is just giving them the energy to carry through with it. Maybe this is more common in young people due to societal factors, but this is actually much more daming for these drugs than anything I've heard before, and has everything to do with the drug itself.

Edit: I'm out. I know you'll rebut this, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. I see very little difference between the two substances, whil you see lots. I have my own anecdotal evidence to rely on, and you have yours. I would only like to say that damning the substance, without trying it, is foolish at best considering how little we know about it scientifically.

 

[Amir0x]

Marijuana smoke, like cigarettes, can cause lung cancer.

 

[Megafoo Chavez]

people that don't like marijuana are usually found drinking a lot of moutaindew and spouting things like "I'm going to be somebody unlike those silly potheads!"

 

[Tim]

Well, as far as your image being influenced by smoking marijuana, it's a lot different in Holland. It's legal and therefore much more accepted, and a lot more people do it, it's that simple. The people that despise me for doing it, I don't even want to know. And I have lots of friends who don't smoke, but respect me anyway. I mean why wouldn't they? The difference between alcohol and weed is really minimal here.

 

[Megafoo Chavez]

I heard this rumor that if you smoke too much weed you wont have sperms in your nutsac anymore?! AND if you do acid you'll become a glass of Orange Juice and you'll spill if you tip over.

GUNS KILL

 

[Joe]

if you do acid you'll become a glass of Orange Juice and you'll spill if you tip over.

:lol
i remember hearing that in high school except it started with "my brothers friends cousin"

 

[Belfast]

Why? Can you actually cite any study that has demonstrated Pot having an affect on someone that is anywhere near similar (in terms of being that bad)? I'm serious. Because I haven't seen any. My point is that a mind-altering drug is a mind-altering drug. I'd say that you're acting significantly biased because a) you're on an anti-depressent which is legal and b) pot is illegal, poorly studied, and has an extremely negative social stigma attached to it. They're all doing something very similar. I can sit here and, pretty confidently, say pot certainly has some uses, and it's denigration in mainstream American culture is both hypocritical and absurd given our near-glorification of alcohol and (until recently, at least) cigarettes - drugs that have much-worse proven effects on the human body. This is on top of our glorification of mind-altering prescription drugs (anti-depressents, ADHD problem solvers, etc.), which we take for granted are acting in a very similar way.



And whoa, I just realized this, what you said has nothing to do with being young. You're making the argument that if someone is suicidal, this drug is just giving them the energy to carry through with it. Maybe this is more common in young people due to societal factors, but this is actually much more daming for these drugs than anything I've heard before, and has everything to do with the drug itself.

Edit: I'm out. I know you'll rebut this, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. I see very little difference between the two substances, whil you see lots. I have my own anecdotal evidence to rely on, and you have yours. I would only like to say that damning the substance, without trying it, is foolish at best considering how little we know about it scientifically.

Of course I'm going to rebut. And its not anecdotal evidence you tard, I've gotten this from the very mouth of various psychologists and psychiatrists, and not the kind that'll just prescribe you anything for the hell of it. They've also given copies of documentation which says these things. I'm not pulling it out of my ass here.

Suicide in adult patients is very rare and nobody I've talk to of the above have ever personally seen a case where an adult patient became suicidal or came back feeling worse off after being prescribed. Drugs are meant to be used for care and not recreation and many of these same doctors would still prefer to be careful and prescribe them under the right circumstances after other methods to correct the problem have been tried. But what can I say....I've never tried pot. I've never tried getting hit by a truck, either. Maybe that has some beneficial effects I'm not aware of.

 

[Amir0x]

Of course I'm going to rebut. And its not anecdotal evidence you tard, I've gotten this from the very mouth of various psychologists and psychiatrists, and not the kind that'll just prescribe you anything for the hell of it. They've also given copies of documentation which says these things. I'm not pulling it out of my ass here.

Well...

Suicide in adult patients is very rare andnobody I've talk to of the above have ever personally seen a case where an adult patient became suicidal or came back feeling worse off after being prescribed. Drugs are meant to be used for care and not recreation and many of these same doctors would still prefer to be careful and prescribe them under the right circumstances after other methods to correct the problem have been tried.

While the underlined part is factually untrue (unless your view of the larger truth IS based on anecdotal evidence received by the few psychologists you have encountered), as there have been plenty of adults who took antidepressants and had adverse reactions to them, the other part for discussion is very much up for debate. However, is not at all impossible that it might increase suicide risk in adults. In fact, the FDA are now looking into just that. You can read a fantastic article about it here.

A choice quote...

That problem was underscored in February when one of the “healthy” adult participants—a 19-year-old bible-school student—hanged herself while enrolled in a clinical trial for Eli Lilly and Company’s new antidepressant, Cymbalta. The FDA has since approved Cymbalta to treat depression and diabetes-related pain.

Anyway, the article discusses when the "line" is drawn for an adult/child cases and also the history regarding suicide studies for adults in regards to antidepressants. Pretty good stuff.

But what can I say....I've never tried pot. I've never tried getting hit by a truck, either. Maybe that has some beneficial effects I'm not aware of.

This was completely off the wall and extremist in execution, though. I hope you're not implying what I think you are, but I won't jump to conclusions.

 

[Crow357]

My first year in college, I got invited to a party one time. They told me it was a pot smoking party though. Well, at the time, I didn't smoke, but I said I'd come anyway to have fun and brought some Jack and coke. Everyone was smoking out of something they called a power hitter. It was like a squeezable bottle that you put a joint into a hole on one end so that when you squeezed on the bottle, smoke came out one end. They offered it to me several times, but I declined each time. Well after these two chicks fixed me a couple of drinks (mostly Jack), they passed it to me and I said I try it. Ended up getting totally stoned and started down a road of daily pot smoking (along with many other drugs) that lasted for years.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

(fact: Marijuana is classified as a drug with zero medicinal properties in America, worse than cocaine and heroine and therefore much harder to study).

Um, no. Only six states have marijuana as a Schedule I drug.

 

[Amir0x]

Um, no. Only six states have marijuana as a Schedule I drug.

IIRC, THC-containing plants/products are a Schedule I drug federally.

Source

Tetrahydrocannabinols, the active chemicals contained in Cannabis plants, are Schedule I in the United States. This makes it federally illegal to buy, sell, or possess in all forms (cannabis plants, extracts, hash, hash oil, thc, etc) except synthetic THC (Marinol) which is Schedule III. It was moved from Schedule II to Schedule III in July 1999.

 

[Louis]

In Holland weed is legal . You must be 18 if you want to buy it in the coffeeshop but there are enough house dealers/street dealers who just sell it to kids under the 18 ( like me ) . For alcohool you must be 16 to buy it , but i don't like alcohool myself so i never buy it .

Rolls can be expensive, but the more you buy the cheaper each individual pill will be. The cheapest I ever got it for was 600 dollars for 100 pills; i.e. 6 bucks a pill.

One pill costs here like 3 Euro .

 

[Optimistic]

Oh great, another weed thread. Maybe we should have a thread about weed stickied so all the totally sick wicked kids who smoke pot can sing its praises and the crazy narcs who've never smoked it before/are grossly misinformed on the subject can deride them for it!! Seriously, arguments about bud just go round and round until everyone dies of boredom.

it totally fried my brain. i like smoking, i enjoy smoking but if you do it too much it just fucks up your head.

This man speaks the truth. Obviously it's not appliocable to everyone, but after smoking it intensely for around six months (like, every day) I was a bit of a wreck. So I stopped (easily might I add. Bud isn't addictive, it's extremely easy to stop unless you're a total douche with no willpower whatsoever), and after a few weeks my mental state had returned to normal. Needless to say, I rarely smoke anymore, and when I do I don't really enjoy it that much. Moral of the story, everything in moderation.

 

[Amir0x]

One pill costs here like 3 Euro .

I could get pills for 3 a pop if I buy like 2 rolls at once. But I've never spent 1200 in one go for drugs before, so I never took advantage of such a deal.

But 3 dollars a pop for a single pill?

That's f00kin' insane. I'm moving to Europe.

 

[Nerevar]

Of course I'm going to rebut. And its not anecdotal evidence you tard,

Hahah, using anecdotal evidence from experts is still anecdotal evidence. You make the same points in every thread, and get very defensive whenever the subject of antidepressents is brought up. I've read an excellent Scientific American which made a good case for why THC could be a wonderful drug for cancer patients (increase in appetite to offset chemo / dulling of pain), but we can't even study it due to the social stigmas in this country. And people like you are part of the problem. So maybe if you educated yourself a little bit without the myopic blinders of self-righteousness you'd learn a little bit of the good of the drugs that you don't take and a little bit of the bad of the drugs that you do take.

 

[Belfast]

Well...



While the underlined part is factually untrue (unless your view of the larger truth IS based on anecdotal evidence received by the few psychologists you have encountered), as there have been plenty of adults who took antidepressants and had adverse reactions to them, the other part for discussion is very much up for debate. However, is not at all impossible that it might increase suicide risk in adults. In fact, the FDA are now looking into just that. You can read a fantastic article about it here.

A choice quote...



Anyway, the article discusses when the "line" is drawn for an adult/child cases and also the history regarding suicide studies for adults in regards to antidepressants. Pretty good stuff.



This was completely off the wall and extremist in execution, though. I hope you're not implying what I think you are, but I won't jump to conclusions.

I read the article and yes, its true, no drug is going to be a silver bullet. There's not a cure-all for any condition. The industry should take more care in prescribing these things and continue to conduct studies, but it still cannot be directly attributed to the drugs, IMO. Every pill has roughly the same chemical makeup, but its the way it affects the existing brain chemistry that matters. Unfortunately, there's no good way to measure this. A psychological evaluation is the best we've got, really. Will the occassional adult suicide happen? Sure. Plus, the age thing - it is hard to figure out where to draw the line. Once again, its up to the individual, some people mature mentally later than others. Until we fully understand the human brain, we can't say anything 100%. Its all possible, but the *trends* suggest that this generally a problem in adolescents and there seems to be a good general distinction between an undeveloped and developed brain.

As for what I said last, you can possibly take it the way I think you're taking it. I have no love for marijuana, that's for sure. But the real point is that you can have an opinion of something without having tried it. People who argue about pot tend to make the mistake of saying "well, you have to try it before you can judge it!"

 

[Nerevar]

But the real point is that you can have an opinion of something without having tried it. People who argue about pot tend to make the mistake of saying "well, you have to try it before you can judge it!"

The problem with this is, while generally this is true, there is so little correct information about it that anyone who formulates an opinion without personally trying / studying it is basing it off stereotypes and misinformation. Like I said, there is ample evidence showing THC could have a number of good medical uses. But who knows if it's feasible, especially since it's side effects are so poorly known and based completely off of societal views. The "drug war" has dictated our view of marijuana, and it's a view that could be entirely incorrect. We just don't know from a scientific standpoint, and judging without knowledge is shortsighted.

 

[Tim]

I could get pills for 3 a pop if I buy like 2 rolls at once. But I've never spent 1200 in one go for drugs before, so I never took advantage of such a deal.

But 3 dollars a pop for a single pill?

That's f00kin' insane. I'm moving to Europe.

:lol
It's cheap because it's so extremely accessible

 

[border]

People who argue about pot tend to make the mistake of saying "well, you have to try it before you can judge it!"

Which is probably still a little smarter than people who would parallel a risk-free trial usage of a non-addictive drug to being run over by a large automobile.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Bud's more harmless than ciggies and booze. And it's better than lots of prescription drugs out there. For instance, you don't have to worry about kidney problems or any of that shit from toking. Of all the drugs, weed is quite possibly he most perfect. And if you want to tow the lung cancer line, then you can either get a vaporizer or eat brownies. The smear campaign against weed is just that, a campaign. Those Partnership for a Drug Free America ads are a riot. They make absolutely no sense and haven't stemmed the tide one single bit. Lots more kids smoke these days than in the past. It's not something I'd recommend for people still learning. Until you graduate from hs, you really don't need any additional distractions. But given a choice between weed and alcohol, I'd prefer kids to smoke. It's just safer.

You can also quit it pretty easy. I say I can't b/c I lack the motivation to stop. It's not affecting my health much besides the nagging cough, and it hasn't affected my work since you're really only stoned for a few hours at a time. You can feel the cloud lifting too as you return to normalcy. Also a little dopeyness will still stick around the rest of the day, but for most, normally-motivated people, that's not a big deal. PEACE.

 

[Amir0x]

I read the article and yes, its true, no drug is going to be a silver bullet. There's not a cure-all for any condition. The industry should take more care in prescribing these things and continue to conduct studies, but it still cannot be directly attributed to the drugs, IMO. Every pill has roughly the same chemical makeup, but its the way it affects the existing brain chemistry that matters. Unfortunately, there's no good way to measure this. A psychological evaluation is the best we've got, really. Will the occassional adult suicide happen? Sure. Plus, the age thing - it is hard to figure out where to draw the line. Once again, its up to the individual, some people mature mentally later than others. Until we fully understand the human brain, we can't say anything 100%. Its all possible, but the *trends* suggest that this generally a problem in adolescents and there seems to be a good general distinction between an undeveloped and developed brain.

I agree that this is definitely a far bigger issue for adolescents and teenagers than it is for adults. My point was just that we can't exactly dismiss the idea of it affecting some adults in a similar fashion. Dismissing that idea can be extremely dangerous, imho. But for the most part, I can't find much to disagree with you here... until we fully understand the human brain, we can't say anything 100%. But we can, with the proper resources and studying, make a fairly accurate statement at 85%...

As for what I said last, you can possibly take it the way I think you're taking it. I have no love for marijuana, that's for sure. But the real point is that you can have an opinion of something without having tried it. People who argue about pot tend to make the mistake of saying "well, you have to try it before you can judge it!"

Well if that's all your point is, then it's cool. I was getting the vague impression that you were likening the negative effects of marijuana to getting hit by a truck... but, heh, it's clear that I was wrong.

But yeah, I agree. You don't have to smoke marijuana to have an opinion about it. I have a high level of respect for people who have never tried it, because it's extremely prevalent in our society and avoiding it takes at least a small modicum of self-control even if you've never been asked before to take part in such things. Although I would say I have nothing against people who use marijuana and support the legalization of it 100%, especially in light of my political viewpoint that everyone should be allowed to do with their body as they choose so long as they do not endanger their friends. In other words, no smoking weed and driving or you face stiff penalties/jail time, ala alcohol.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

IIRC, THC-containing plants/products are a Schedule I drug federally.

Source

Yeah, but 44 states don't have it as Schedule I, so the only way it'll be enforced as a Schedule I is if you get caught in one of those six states or get caught by a federal agency like the FBI.