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[jimbo]

I'm not an insider so I can't see the boards but that's what it says in this thread. Apparently G4 too.

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=47903

If so, Sony really sucks. They even had me pumped and while I had my doubts that was real time, the confirmation sure pumps all that air out of me.

I just don't get it. These systems have been powerfull enough from this generation to just be able to show real game stuff and still impress us. I know the PS3 is capable of making some kick-ass gameplay graphics. Why the deception? Yeah so it helped them put on a hell of a presentation, but in the long run, it's going to dissapoint some people. I hate marketing teams.

 

[Odysseus]

I just don't get it. These systems have been powerfull enough from this generation to just be able to show real game stuff and still impress us. I know the PS3 is capable of making some kick-ass gameplay graphics. Why the deception? Yeah so it helped them put on a hell of a presentation, but in the long run, it's going to dissapoint some people. I hate marketing teams.

Unfinished.

Hardware.

 

[jimbo]

Bullshit. Unreal 3 engine was running on the damn thing....if Epic can do it in 2 months...and they're third party...SONY CAN'T? Come on!!!!

 

[Fatghost]

There were some flaws in the Killzone footage that leads me to believe it wasn't CG.

Heavily scripted though in any case.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

I personally think that it was real time. The flame effect was weak, there was shadow glitch on the gun and there was some small pop up. According to peeps on the forum all these problems could have been faked even with CG.

Ivan at IGN says that he visited Sony last August and they didn't have PS3 devs kits at the time (ya like they would tell him) and he is arguing that they can't get the game to look THAT good in such a short period of time (August 2004 - May 2005)

 

[Twix]

Bullshit. Unreal 3 engine was running on the damn thing....if Epic can do it in 2 months...and they're third party...SONY CAN'T? Come on!!!!

* applause *

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

Yeah it's pre-rendered using the game engine, feel the PS3 POWAAAH!

 

[Odysseus]

Some companies are geeks like that. It's kind of like Factor 5 with Rogue Leader for GameCube, had that demo up in running in no time flat. To this day, one of the best looking games on GameCube. Meanwhile, Nintendo has yet to put out an in-house game that touches it. Some companies thrive on graphics and just know how to pimp stuff out to the Nth degree. I don't see Guerilla as one of those companies. At least not yet.

 

[android]

It better than the other two who showed ..................? If the graphics in the end dont reach that level, then fine because I'm more excited by the fact that they seem to have locked up all the major third party games. And I considered myself a xbot. I thought that maybe MS or Nintendo would have been able to steal one or two, but they seem to have got none. I hate the controller though.

 

[J2 Cool]

Doesn't really matter much. It's not gameplay it seems, that's impossible as scripted as it was. The graphic demos are enough to comfort us though. I'm sure it will kick ass when we see it being played. Just give it some patience. No reason to freak out because the system isn't ready to be shown yet. It seems PS3 is definitely one heck of a powerful machine, and looks to be the system that's going to push the graphics farthest next gen. I'm definitely on board.

Edit: Hopefully we get some insane and frantic in game explosions like that though

 

[jimbo]

"I thought that maybe MS or Nintendo would have been able to steal one or two, but they seem to have got none."

They didn't list them all as exclusives, did they?

 

[Gek54]

Did everyone forget how hyped up all the media got durring the Killzone development. The team shows alot of tallent and ability but the game ended up being hindered by being rushed to market more than anything. It had TONS of potential.

 

[Suikoguy]

"I thought that maybe MS or Nintendo would have been able to steal one or two, but they seem to have got none."

They didn't list them all as exclusives, did they?

So your gonna wait for the inferior Xbox 360 version? If one comes at all? (Man that sounds weird to say)

 

[nitewulf]

none (xenon/ps3) of the hardware are really at their final stages. devs are at best emulating both hardware and showing projected graphics, either pre-rendered or running on alpha kits. which is why i find it so very very stupid to see both camps jumping around. its so retarded.

 

[Master Z]

Looking at the UE3 demo I see no reason why games on the PS3 won't be able to do those killzone graphics in realtime. We won't see that kind of output until the second gen of PS3 games though....MGS4.

 

[Drek]

They didn't list them all as exclusives, did they?

Don't believe so, but big name titles sell systems, so the system they first appear on gets by far the majority of its selling power.

As for the Killzone vid, well, hopefully Guerilla will clear that up for us soon. ;P

 

[BlackSalad]

if anything its probably pre-rendered to what they expect the final product to look like

 

[OmniGamer]

Good God, I'll be glad when this "Pre-Rendered-Gate" period is over.

 

[DCharlie]

Great, so can we all agree then....

if PS3 running UE3 is proof that Killzone is possible real time, then it's possible to get the same results on the Xbox 360 as it also runs UE3 - therefore the power edge of the PS3 is overplayed.

I'm glad that's all sorted out.

 

[Suikoguy]

Great, so can we all agree then....

if PS3 running UE3 is proof that Killzone is possible real time, then it's possible to get the same results on the Xbox 360 as it also runs UE3 - therefore the power edge of the PS3 is overplayed.

I'm glad that's all sorted out.

I thought that particular demo stuttered, the ps3 demo I saw ran pretty damn smooth.

 

[DCharlie]

"I thought that particular demo stuttered, the ps3 demo I saw ran pretty damn smooth."

the X360 is built to be a UE3 base - regardless of how smooth the UE3 is running on a SLI 6800 machine, the Xbox 360 is still gonna run UE3.

 

[Suikoguy]

the X360 is built to be a UE3 base - regardless of how smooth the UE3 is running on a SLI 6800 machine, the Xbox 360 is still gonna run UE3.

Alright, i'll take your word for it. We will see eventually anyway.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

"I thought that particular demo stuttered, the ps3 demo I saw ran pretty damn smooth."

This would depend greatly on what's in each dev kit that Epic's using when they made their trailers / demo. If you think Unreal 3 will stutter on final Xbox hardware then ahah. But it was nonetheless impressive for Sony's PlayStation 3.

 

[Master Z]

Great, so can we all agree then....

if PS3 running UE3 is proof that Killzone is possible real time, then it's possible to get the same results on the Xbox 360 as it also runs UE3 - therefore the power edge of the PS3 is overplayed.

I'm glad that's all sorted out.

I'm predicting that PS3 will edge out 360 in terms of AI, animations and physics...eventually, when developers get comfortable with Cell and really put those extra Gflops to use...

 

[Dracos]

That realtime U3E demo on PS3 looked nowhere as good as the Killzone footage.

 

[border]

Not confirmed anywhere as of yet. But thanks, I really think the forum needed another thread for people to debate this issue.

 

[midnightguy]

There were some flaws in the Killzone footage that leads me to believe it wasn't CG.

Heavily scripted though in any case.

I agree,


Kill Zone was NOT pre-rendered CG. it was realtime. but the question is, realtime on what? workstations? PCs? PS3?

Kill Zone had NO tell-tail signs of being prerendered CG - and it DID have tail-tail signs of being realtime.. it had a few flaws.

some of the reasons why it looked so good

1.) very high, smooth framerate with no noticable dips or stutters
2.) heavily scripted, totally controlled tech demo. basicly a realtime movie.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I don't really care. It's the most exciting thing to be seen at the show and bravo to them for having it. Basically, I expect there to be something similar near launch and I'm sure that's the seed they wanted to be in my mind. It looks better than anything I saw on 360, including GoW.

 

[ThirdEye]

Great, so can we all agree then....

if PS3 running UE3 is proof that Killzone is possible real time, then it's possible to get the same results on the Xbox 360 as it also runs UE3 - therefore the power edge of the PS3 is overplayed.

UE3 runs on some 2Ghz Celeron + GT6800. With 15fps or so.
Gamespot wrote that the Sony E3 conference was the first time they witnessed Unreal Engine 3 runs smoothly. From then on, PS3 became THE platform for UE3, with nVIDIA help of course.

 

[seismologist]

guess what, the MGS2 demo for PS2 was also "pre-rendered".

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

I can say 100% that the Killzone and Getaway 3 PS3 demos were 100% realtime running on the PS 3.


There are things that I know and it is what it is.

 

[DCharlie]

"UE3 runs on some 2Ghz Celeron + GT6800. With 15fps or so.
Gamespot wrote that the Sony E3 conference was the first time they witnessed Unreal Engine 3 runs smoothly. From then on, PS3 became THE platform for UE3, with nVIDIA help of course."

....err... that's not the point.

The point is in this threads crazy logic is :

1) Killzone is uber impressive
2) that if UE3 is possible on PS3, then so is Killzone.
3) therefore, we know UE3 is gonna be possible on Xbox 360 - by your own assumptions, if it runs on a 2Ghz Celeron + GT6800, then the Xbox 360 is going to murder it.
4) so , by extension of this logic, the X360 can handle Killzone
5) and by further extension, the most impressive game shown to date on the PS3 is possible on the Xbox 360

so this then raises the question of whether there really is that much of a difference?

All we know is that X360 is built as a UE3 machine, given Epic didn't give a similar demo themselves on X360 then they may well be at the same point on the Xbox 360. Given the low specs that it runs on, you'd have to expect that Epic would get the thing running quickly right?

"guess what, the MGS2 demo for PS2 was also "pre-rendered"."

this is an interesting point actually.... the intro of MGS2 uses the PS2 real time and it looks amazing - but tell me, how close is the game graphics to that real time intro?

 

[Sathsquatch]

guess what, the MGS2 demo for PS2 was also "pre-rendered".

How many sources have to confirm that Killzone was not real time? Duckroll, Mark Rein of Epic, and others have all indicated that it was prerendered.

 

[Mr_Furious]

It's "pre-real-rendered"

 

[Miroku]

Yeah the Global Illumination in the rendering isnt a telltale sign...

It was pre-rendered. Here's why:

Global Illumination
Shitloads of Particles
Tons of highly detailed characters on screen in an enormous environment

If you think that these guys have an engine capable of rendering what you just saw in realtime and also allowing a team of artists to piece that sequence together then ask yourself why arent they selling it? Why arent they telling the world about it? Also ask yourself why such a huge accomplishment of realtime rendering was offered up in the middle of a video reel rather than getting some form of introduction as the UE3 demo did or the EA boxing demo did.

Honestly, this whole debate has gone way too far. :lol

The flaws in the CG are there due to the likely use of some game assets. For example the low poly buildings in the background, and the low-res bump mapping on the concrete street. I am going to make an educated guess and say the character models are indicative of their source art for what will become low poly normal mapped characters in the final game.

 

[seismologist]

this is an interesting point actually.... the intro of MGS2 uses the PS2 real time and it looks amazing - but tell me, how close is the game graphics to that real time intro?

The camera's different and it's less cinematic but The graphics quality looks the same to me.

Killzone shouldn't have this problem since it's highly cinematic in the first place.

 

[DaveH]

If you think that these guys have an engine capable of rendering what you just saw in realtime and also allowing a team of artists to piece that sequence together then ask yourself why arent they selling it? Why arent they telling the world about it? Also ask yourself why such a huge accomplishment of realtime rendering was offered up in the middle of a video reel rather than getting some form of introduction as the UE3 demo did or the EA boxing demo did.

Exactly. Saying nothing, they only benefit from speculation (ala Halo's 1st trailer).

 

[Laurent]

Does it matter? If it actually is what the final product will look like...

 

[shpankey]

Bullshit. Unreal 3 engine was running on the damn thing....if Epic can do it in 2 months...and they're third party...SONY CAN'T? Come on!!!!

they've been working on the Unreal 3 engine for a long time. a lot longer than just 2 months. the 2 months was them just getting to run on PS3. that's a lot different thatn creating something from scratch in a couple months.

 

[tsp_gatmog]

www.jhwdavison.1up.com

John Davison is saying that he talked to a development member of SCEE who is working on Killzone ps3 and that he says most of the game is real-time.

 

[seismologist]

lso ask yourself why such a huge accomplishment of realtime rendering was offered up in the middle of a video reel rather than getting some form of introduction as the UE3 demo did or the EA boxing demo did..

well obviously because it's not realtime. There's no working system that can run that demo in real-time like the final PS3 spec will.

 

[golem]

apparently even killing time is confirmed to be pre-rendered from a ubi employee..

http://www.nofrag.com/2005/mai/17/17474/

fait avec 3dsmax.
fake gameplay
arrettez de vous pogner

 

[jimbo]

"Looking at the UE3 demo I see no reason why games on the PS3 won't be able to do those killzone graphics in realtime. We won't see that kind of output until the second gen of PS3 games though....MGS4"

I don't know man. I thought Killzone smoked the U3 engine.

Not saying it won't happen down the line, and you can probably get that kind of detail on characters in more enclosed environments on characters but that's still misleading for the time being.

I guess what I'm saying and what I've always said is I'll believe it when I see it in my hands. Either way PS3 and 360 are mine. I just hate this bullshit because they are so shady about telling you the truth and always try to get your hopes up.

 

[Pimpwerx]

There is no final hw. While UE3 may run fine in a limited scenario on dual 6800's, I do not for a second believe that Killzone2 demo would have. There's a reason both systems so far had a majority of the impressive stuff "prerendered". There's no hw. What's better, showing nothing like Nintendo, or wheeling out the target renders for the fanboys to masterbait furiously to? I'm personally glad they gave us the target renders. We got GoW (a slideshow on the real hw), GR3 (that direct feed vid looked godly) and Killzone2 (again, looked godly).

Look at the reactions to Thursday's presentation. It was embarassing. That's not what anyone wanted to see from the next-gen. The PS3 presentation looked next-gen, that's what we all want to see, so let's be happy. People complaining about renders are morons. Wait for the final product before you string people up? PEACE.

 

[Pimpwerx]

"Looking at the UE3 demo I see no reason why games on the PS3 won't be able to do those killzone graphics in realtime. We won't see that kind of output until the second gen of PS3 games though....MGS4"

I don't know man. I thought Killzone smoked the U3 engine.

Not saying it won't happen down the line, and you can probably get that kind of detail on characters in more enclosed environments on characters but that's still misleading for the time being.

I guess what I'm saying and what I've always said is I'll believe it when I see it in my hands. Either way PS3 and 360 are mine. I just hate this bullshit because they are so shady about telling you the truth and always try to get your hopes up.

What are you basing this on? UE3 is a general-purpose engine. It's not gonna beat a dedicated game engine IMO, especially not one from a first party. I got laughed at for saying it, but I expect Square and a number of the Sony teams to exceed UE3 easily in graphics quality. It's not like Epic has the lock on graphics. PEACE.

 

[MrSingh]

I'm predicting that PS3 will edge out 360 in terms of AI, animations and physics...eventually, when developers get comfortable with Cell and really put those extra Gflops to use...

most likely in animation and physics. but AI? no.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

If that killzone footage is real time I shall eat my ..........*most popular suggestion from GAF gets picked*

I am so damn sure its pre-rendered I will do it.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

most likely in animation and physics. but AI? no.

Asking around the SPEs will probably be able to do AI code as well. So it may depend how you balance your AI,physics etc

 

[DaveH]

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/fleetwood-mac/54384.html

Interesting some prefer that route....

 

[jiggle]

This is from the blog of John Davison:

http://jwhdavison.1up.com/



I ran into an old friend from the UK when we were leaving, and it turns out he's now working on Killzone at SCEE. When I asked him how "real" the video we'd just seen was, his response was "just about all of it."