ethomaz
Banned
Most of them to be fair.
But Open World is really boring game design.
Most of games for me worked better without being Open World… there are few exceptions thought.
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So Naughty Dogs next game is going open world right?
- Thread starter Men_in_Boxes
- Start date
But Open World is really boring game design.
Most of games for me worked better without being Open World… there are few exceptions thought.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
That's the marketing word ND used with TLoU2. And they even used it when talking about some parts in Uncharted 4 (don't remember about The Lost Legacy). I think makes sense.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Source?
Honestly, I hope not. I'm getting kind of sick of open world. Not every game needs to be open world.
I feel a lot of open-world games removes the urgency and pressure in a game by letting you just wander around with no real direction and doing things at your leisure and it allows developers to cheap out on level design because you get to spend a ton of time creating landscapes with no real purpose other than to look decent while you pass through. I think Elden Ring would have been better with more Volcano manors and less random landscapes that hide a formulaic cave that you need to hit a switch to fight a miniboss to hopefully get a decent weapon.
I feel a lot of open-world games removes the urgency and pressure in a game by letting you just wander around with no real direction and doing things at your leisure and it allows developers to cheap out on level design because you get to spend a ton of time creating landscapes with no real purpose other than to look decent while you pass through. I think Elden Ring would have been better with more Volcano manors and less random landscapes that hide a formulaic cave that you need to hit a switch to fight a miniboss to hopefully get a decent weapon.
Kiddo Cabbusses
Member
Open-World is the antithesis to most of the things that are good about Naughty Dog's game design going all the way from the original Crash trilogy to TLOU.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
8-bit open world. I'll bet my account.
SeraphJan
Member
Open world will destroy the pacing for a Narrative driven game
"We need to escape now, its emergent!" "Hold them off for me, let me finish 10 more fetch quest first."
I don't see how is that any fun. Open world and an immersive Narrative driven design doesn't work well together. Open world works better as sandbox, where player learn the story through reading text, item description or talking to NPC, that does not required to follow a strict sequence (Which games like BotW, Elden Ring did, Lore does not equals to Narrative, and that's the best way of telling a story for open world design), or else it lose the meaning of Open world. What's the meaning of Openness if you can't visit certain area just because the story haven't progress to that point yet, you are forced to be locked out of large portion of contents until you reach that point with sequential main missions. On the opposite side, the Story telling through Narrative will also lose its meaning and agency because player are not good at controlling their own pacing to make the story make sense, its the developer's job, and to do so they need a Linear approach.
These are the main reason the Original God of War Trilogy was way more exciting than God of War 2018 (at least for me), and God of War 2018 was not even a full Open world. And for me RDR2 would not lose a single charm if they made it a Linear game with a little bit of exploration like Uncharted 4 and TLOU2, I would still love it to death. Nothing against these games, they were great, but not because they were open world, its because of their overall quality, they would be great regardless of which genre they are, open world design was simply unnecessary.
EDMIX
you've missed my point
"We need to escape now, its emergent!" "Hold them off for me, let me finish 10 more fetch quest first."
I don't see how is that any fun. Open world and an immersive Narrative driven design doesn't work well together. Open world works better as sandbox, where player learn the story through reading text, item description or talking to NPC, that does not required to follow a strict sequence (Which games like BotW, Elden Ring did, Lore does not equals to Narrative, and that's the best way of telling a story for open world design), or else it lose the meaning of Open world. What's the meaning of Openness if you can't visit certain area just because the story haven't progress to that point yet, you are forced to be locked out of large portion of contents until you reach that point with sequential main missions. On the opposite side, the Story telling through Narrative will also lose its meaning and agency because player are not good at controlling their own pacing to make the story make sense, its the developer's job, and to do so they need a Linear approach.
These are the main reason the Original God of War Trilogy was way more exciting than God of War 2018 (at least for me), and God of War 2018 was not even a full Open world. And for me RDR2 would not lose a single charm if they made it a Linear game with a little bit of exploration like Uncharted 4 and TLOU2, I would still love it to death. Nothing against these games, they were great, but not because they were open world, its because of their overall quality, they would be great regardless of which genre they are, open world design was simply unnecessary.
EDMIX
you've missed my point
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EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
true, but it depends on if they mean open, here is player free agency to do what ever
or open, here is a closed area to look around in, but you must only go to this area to trigger cut scene to go to next part. ala The Last Of Us 2 and Uncharted 4.
Either way, I don't really see them going open world fully like having a deep player free agency type thing, Sony already has enough teams that do that, but then again Sony is also very open to allow those teams to freely create too.
You know what, it depends on the IP.
A lot of us would tell Guerrilla Games in 2011 to stick to FPS titles, not knowing what Horizon Zero Dawn would really successfully be. If they have an idea that works for open world, works for player free agency..i say go for it and have a change of pace, they are 2 teams after all. We'll still get The Last Of Us 3.
SeraphJan
"Open world will destroy the pacing for a Narrative driven game" well...not really. "Hold them off for me, let me finish 10 more fetch quest first." well you can have a open world that doesn't have fetch quest. Look, think deeper about this instead of the generalization of other open world games. The definition of open world doesn't mean. Fetch Quest, any order mission completion etc. That might exist in open world games, that is not a exclusive element only in and defined by them. We know plenty of open world titles that have none of that btw. It would be like saying you are playing a linear game and someone tells you "great, I hate forced walking" as if all linear games have that lol or "i hate unskippable cut scenes" . None of that is in all linear games anymore then what you listed for open world games. They can be in a game, doesn't mean they must be to be open world.
Massive difference that I see confused with on here lots of times.
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remember_spinal
Banned
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Secure the outpost 1/250...
lol
by the time I finished Witcher 3, I think I liked the music more then anything else.
existensmaximum
Member
They're gonna have a hard time keeping the world's highest quality when it comes to motion capture, acting and animation if the game is open world. At least it has lots and lots of dialogue.
I think their strong suite wouldn't be well suited for it (!!) but who knows. Nah.
I think their strong suite wouldn't be well suited for it (!!) but who knows. Nah.
TheMay30thMan
Member
You can make fantastic “linear” games without them devolving into a series of hallways. The Last of Us 2 was a great linear experience that was quite open. Naughty Dog would be doing the medium a disservice by chasing what’s trending and making their next game an open world game.
I’m honestly starting to think that you’re just a robot that’s only capable of talking about what’s popular. I’m probably wrong. Maybe. I don’t know.
bitbydeath
Member
Weren’t those rumours based on people hoping Savage Starlight would become a game when it was first featured in TLOU1?
I’d rather we get “Dawn of the Wolf” instead of a space game.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Elden Ring is highly ambitious title. They even roped in George RR Martin. Pretty much shows they were aiming for the stars, Skyrim/Witcher 3 level of popularity.
Naughty Dog doubtful will replicate it. Their best years were PS3 era when when they released ground breaking Uncharted 2. Right now they are just iterating on that.
Naughty Dog doubtful will replicate it. Their best years were PS3 era when when they released ground breaking Uncharted 2. Right now they are just iterating on that.
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Zeroing
Banned
No idea but the dawn of the wolf was a joke about a teen movie.Weren’t those rumours based on people hoping Savage Starlight would become a game when it was first featured in TLOU1?
I’d rather we get “Dawn of the Wolf” instead of a space game.
Whatever they are making it could be a new IP, they are taking longer than usual (they have 2 teams)
Fess
Member
First try? They already did it on PS2 in Jak and Daxter. And they’ve done big open maps in Uncharted 4 and Uncharted Lost Legacy.
Naughty Dog is fully capable of pulling off open world gameplay.
What they (and almost every other dev) could do is add more exploration content and enemies on the map. And traversal needs to be good. The reason Elden Ring is on my top 5 all-time list is because of Torrent, the instant mount, and because exploring actually matters, you could probably play hundreds of hours and still find new stuff, fast travel is snappy too so I never sigh if I have to go to the other side of the map. Remove boredom and traversal frustration and an open map is never a bad thing imo.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The Last of Us Part 2 Was Originally Going To Be Open-World
More of TLOU2 was left on the cutting room floor than originally thought.
screenrant.com
There was also an interview Neil did that I can’t find where he stated they originally planned to do an entirely open world game for tlou2. But they stuck with wide linear as the story progressed.
If they do do open world, expect the game design to be one where the story doesn’t lose focus even though the player choices remain open
Men_in_Boxes
Banned
I don't think there's enough discussion about where the industry is heading. We don't talk about the mechanisms or psychology behind why certain trends are growing and others are diminishing.
Take this thread for example, it's kind of turned into a "I prefer X type of game so Naughty Dog will make X."
Shouldn't we consider the market trends, rather than personal preferences, when it comes to making predictions?
It's also interesting to see people say "Open world is bad so they should do linear" as if fixing the bad parts of the open world formula isn't an inevitability.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I really struggled with original horizon 5 years ago, just slogged through ghost of tsushima and it was painful for a game I wanted to love. I was so bored at various points. Probably 80 percent bored 20 percent enthralled. I've dropped days gone as I can't muster it. Struggled with original spider man due to the repetitive side content, loved Miles morales. Horizon forbidden west looks like nightmare fuel....and I dunno about days gone...might give it another go at some point. I just hope God of war doesn't go more the open world route and please...don't let there be anymore Sony open world games for a while. Give me games like returnal, astro bot, sackboy etc all over that other cutty cutter stuff.
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I hope it's open world and I hope it's well made without unnecessary bloat and that it's interesting enough to explore outside the main story.
Level design in The Last of Us II felt archaic and super restricted. Look for yellow edge because that's the only thing you can climb to progress. This shit need to die.
Level design in The Last of Us II felt archaic and super restricted. Look for yellow edge because that's the only thing you can climb to progress. This shit need to die.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
The thing with Sony games is they pique your curiosity with setting, graphics and animation.
Only once you are half way through, you realise you can't finish the game. Lol.
Negotiator101
Member
That's where their level designs have been heading with their last 2 games. It could be that they will expand even further with large open environments with a sandbox concept but remain linear, only time will tell.
I'll be there though, I believe ND are truly top 3 developers in the world but they have to keep pushing and evolving.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
More games like Elden Ring?
Sign me the fuck up. I didn't need sunlight or sex anyway.
Sign me the fuck up. I didn't need sunlight or sex anyway.
TheTony316
Member
Isn't their next game supposed to have a fantasy setting? An Open World fantasy game by Naughty Dog would be amazing.
Fess
Member
Yeah I think that’s where most open world games fail, way too often it’s just the same linear game on an annoyingly big map without any meaningful loot or side stories.I hope it's open world and I hope it's well made without unnecessary bloat and that it's interesting enough to explore outside the main story.
Level design in The Last of Us II felt archaic and super restricted. Look for yellow edge because that's the only thing you can climb to progress. This shit need to die.
Elden Ring did it perfectly.
And don’t make me think I can climb things if I can’t actually climb things.
PropellerEar
Member
Zeroing
Banned
I did not found it boring. For me it was like a modern take on the original Tomb Raider trilogy. You know back then it was all about exploring and having time to look at the world at your own time, not having tons of explosions and wave after wave of enemies.
But maybe that just is me...
I think Uncharted 4 had more than enough time sink elements without explosions and enemy waves like the beginning, the prison, the diving stuff or the attick area and so on. It didn't need an open world illusion with nothing interesting to explore.
Zeroing
Banned
I kinda agree, but then again it was optional, you could encounter enemies/guns/treasures or not, depending which path you choose. I think the mechanics and idea were better implemented in uncharted lost legacy.
Agree, LL was much than U4.
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Fess
Member
Why wouldn’t they be able to keep doing what they’re doing?
They’ve already done open world games. And big open maps in UC4, UC:LL.
Lost Legacy was still linear and had plenty of scripted set pieces and story sequences, they just set the trigger points for their scripted stuff on an open map instead of at the end of a corridor.
The difficulty with open world games is to come up with something meaningful for the player to find than what they need to progress through the game. In RPGs like The Elder Scrolls and Elden Ring you have side quests and rare loot, you can play 100 hours and not progress at all in the main story. And devs need to stop showing everything on a map… It’s not dangerous to let gamers explore and search for themselves.
vaibhavpisal
Member
TLOU 2 or Uncharted 4 are not highly ambitious.
Not in same level as Elden Ring, no.
They don't need to be. They have a template that they expanded on.
Like From Software did with Bloodborne, Sekiro etc.
Titles like Elden Ring, Uncharted 2 etc are industry defining, how future games get made.
I don't think Naughty Dog have it in them to repeat it.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Personally I want less open world games.
PropellerEar
Member
You're comparing subjective values...
On many objective levels TLOU 2 is more ambitious than Elden Ring.
Majukun
Member
the open world games they made were nothing like the games they made from uncharted 1 forward
and while scripting is more difficult with larger maps, a true open world complicate it by a whole notch, since the entire point of open world games is the lack of linear structure and control over the player's movements and points of entrance
variety of loot and activities while still important it's not my main concern
Fess
Member
Budget and size?
The team was smaller during the Jak days but now with more people they can do it, zero doubt.
They could go the metroidvania route too and slightly control how people move that way, an open map with different areas accessed through gear upgrades, like God of War. That’s how many devs are doing it tbh. Fully open maps like in BOTW where you can go straight to Ganon from the start are extremely rare. Or they can control player movement with enemy difficulty like in Elden Ring.
nominedomine
Banned
I hope not, Lost Legacy was good but I liked Uncharted 4 much more. I didn't get the same sense of adventure from Lost Legacy because there was pretty much no location changes and the story progressed very slowly.
I don't think every AAA game should be open world, there's too many of those games already and most of them I don't even feel like playing anymore.
I don't think every AAA game should be open world, there's too many of those games already and most of them I don't even feel like playing anymore.
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lordarchaon666
Member
They've been building towards a true open world with their releases since Uncharted 4's semi-open world levels. I think its only a matter of time before they release a fully open world game. Whatever happens I don't doubt it will be fun to play, even TLOU2 was fun to play with its brutal and engaging combat, but here's hoping they have a change of staff for the actual story attached to the game. Uncharted 4 was mostly great with a few missteps, didn't finish Lost Legacy because I don't care for Chloe or the other woman that much, and TLOU2.... well I think enough has been said about that story since it came out.