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So THIS was why I quit WoW
- Thread starter borghe
- Start date
krypt0nian
Banned
Zaptruder said:
blahblahblah. You just let your hate blind you. No different that the idiots that only like games made in Japan. Keep typing.
If anyone has been an annoying fuckwit, its your trying to force your bitterness down everyone's throats.
Impact on a message board? :lol You are dem funny lady!
Watch out for them Rogues!
borghe said:
Well, there's the story and setting variety for starters. And the combat systems although somewhat similar can still be sufficiently different.
But more to the point, GT4, lumines, MGS3, SMT, etc, etc... their represent a gamut of variety that you can engage in within the same time frame in which you engage in a single MMO.
krypt0nian
Banned
Zaptruder said:
Or you could just play an MMO in moderation and still play all those games. I sure do. Your lack of personal responsibility is not a knock on a game.
And don't give me that HARDCORE!!!! bullshit about how you have to spend that much time in an MMO in order to play. Just progress slower.
krypt0nian said:
See. What the fuck is that? Is that supposed to be some witty come back? No. It simply doesn't make sense... well I get the point you're trying to insult me or something with that, but might as well say something equally geeky like, Don't let onyxia get you. Stupid retard.
To me, the illogicism of that comment is annoying... but in your mind the 'impact' you think you've made some sort of witty comment.
And I've let my hate blind me how? Blind me to the negatives of MMOs? to the pros? I could engage in a lengthy discourse about the pros and cons of MMOs, but it doesn't seem like you're in the mood to do anything else than act defensive and spew illogicisms.
krypt0nian
Banned
Zaptruder said:
Jesus, you are way scary. Please continue to be annoyed I guess. You've done that for GAF for ages.
krypt0nian
Banned
Joe said:
Exactly.....MMO's are just videogames. Nothing more or less.
krypt0nian said:
Your attempt to pin blame on me ignores the critical flaws of the MMO genre...
slow progress, hooks placed into the game to keep people addicted like crack fiends.
Yeah, you can play moderately, more power to you if you can... but its a mistake to seek any sort of resolution from these games; too many gamers seek it from these games... and as a result developers have to compensate for that with increasingly hardcore mechanics.
but that is apples to oranges. Playing Lumines for 120 hours is no different than playing WoW for 120 hours. You make the implication that playing an MMO is all you play during that time, and while that may be a possiblity, that isn't a function of the genre but of how a person plays the game.Zaptruder said:
There is no difference fundamentally between an MMOG and a non-MMOG. You could almost classify Madden of BF2 as an MMOG if you wanted to. And the reward, re: level of entertainment potential, is no different from an MMOG or a single player game.
krypt0nian said:
Nah. I'm just always against illogicism. It irks me no end when people are satisfied with comments, statements, what not, that simply at their base have no foundation. That make no sense.
It's what allows so much ignorance in the world to propogate; it's a type of thinking that must be eliminated.
krypt0nian
Banned
Zaptruder said:
So if you can play in moderation, every "flaw" evaporates. And if you play like some cracked out monkey, then you eventually get burned out and "see the weaknesses"
Like I said, personal responsibility. No illogic inherent.
Either way, you hate them, I and many others don't. No one is going to change from this topic.
borghe said:
But the level of entertainment potential ISN'T the same.
single player games, or hell, games that don't hinge on massive continued time investment, tend to have many more 'highs' per unit of given time and are more importantly much easier to get out of.
You say 120 hours for lumines and WoW... but 120 hours of lumines will buy you relative mastery over that game as well as a relatively constant high during that 120 hours. With WoW, it might get you to level 40, with alot of repetition to get there. Fair enough the highs might be greater... I won't dispute that... but where as 120 hours is sufficient for lumines, for WoW, you're 'beginning to scratch the surface' as far as time investment is concerned... but you've probably already experienced 'most' of the highs in the game; the virtual world and its setting, the first time of interaction with people in these game worlds, the variety of the combat system with your character class, etc.
but again, the entire basis of your logic assumes you play "a certain type of way". get a guy who puts in 5 hours a week and your entire logic fails. hell, get a guy who has friends who twink his character by donating 200G and PLing him and your entire logic fails.
Basically your logic dictates that if you approach the game in a shitty manner, you will come out feeling shitty about it. See the problem with that?
Basically your logic dictates that if you approach the game in a shitty manner, you will come out feeling shitty about it. See the problem with that?
krypt0nian said:
your illogicism stems from things like your rogue comment and your sweeping generalization of hobbies (i.e. they all have the same time/return ratio (was the implication)).
Yes, there is some measure of personal responsibility to enjoying the game, and it's good if you can exercise it. But the games themselves are designed to hook and addict, to spread out entertainment and add as much time sinking as reasonably possible while still maintaining a cursory goodwill with the customers.
If you can play through a MMO, like it was a really good SP, then I think that's a reasonable investment of time. (So stop within 2-3 months at not too high a level).
On the otherhand, taking it up WoW as a hobby (or worse rather, as far as time investment goes) is a poor trade for the hobby of videogaming.
I am pretty much resistant to MMORPG addiction. I have played EQ, Asheron Call, WoW, PlanetSide, and Anarchy Online. I usually just quit before the free month is up even though I had a lot of fun in those games. I have no idea why I am pretty resistant to these kind of games. May be it's because the idea of wasting hours everyday into a game I can't win just doesn't appeal to me. Or possibly because the economy will eventually get fucked up to the point that I can't win a bid when trying to get the Flaming Sword of Crap +1 for 10k plat.
borghe said:
It's a fair enough genre if you can maintain play casually...
but in practice, because of the way the games are constructed and the way the game dynamics work, a lot of players DO get funnelled down the shitty approach, ultimately becoming a regretful time waster...
moreover, the rewards aren't so great as to outweigh the risks of the genre... the risk been sucked down into a spiralling MMO hell where the ultimately out come is bitterness over the time wasted, or worst yet, a spiralling hell from which there is no return.
krypt0nian
Banned
So the only illogical thing here is throwing oneself into an MMO without regard for moderation.
Alcohol is the same way.
Alcohol is the same way.
MMORPG's are evil in my opinion.
And Zaptruder, you are correct. However, time will mend the overall problems of the genre. As mmorpgs move towards being more interactive (actually requiring more skill), the amount of time spent playing will decrease for most people.
It only takes a certain amount of effort to hit a button and watch your character wack away, but when you have to control your sword/magic/dagger etc and positioning it becomes very tiring. Of course there will still be a few that play 6+ hours a day, but that number will decrease dramatically.
I myself have been seriously addicted to almost every MMORPG out there, including UO, EQ, DAOC, FFXI (2 years), and WoW.
And Zaptruder, you are correct. However, time will mend the overall problems of the genre. As mmorpgs move towards being more interactive (actually requiring more skill), the amount of time spent playing will decrease for most people.
It only takes a certain amount of effort to hit a button and watch your character wack away, but when you have to control your sword/magic/dagger etc and positioning it becomes very tiring. Of course there will still be a few that play 6+ hours a day, but that number will decrease dramatically.
I myself have been seriously addicted to almost every MMORPG out there, including UO, EQ, DAOC, FFXI (2 years), and WoW.
dont quit now they are gonna put in dressing rooms!
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/dressingroom.html
:O
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/dressingroom.html
:O
krypt0nian
Banned
Razoric said:
That is entirely too cool!
Zaptruder said:
I may be jumping in this thread a bit late, but am I to understand that you consider MMOs to be time wasters? That a person would better spend their time playing various video games?
I've been playing MMOs on and off for 4 years now, because I really enjoy the social/gaming experience they provide, and don't regret any of the time I spent playing them.
I've never plunged into the "spiraling hell", or felt bitterness towards any MMO and certainly don't understand why you feel such distain towards them.
;;Ok, my final post in this thread;
That's a cool idea; but one I and many others have suggested to blizzard a long time ago.
What I should've said from the start, but have been unable to articulate up till this point is that...
MMORPGs; they're ok games to include into a varied gaming hobby experience.
In terms of turning them into an actual hobby though, they're sure timewasters filled with regret for many people.
The problem then is that, you get the most out of the MMO if you go hardcore, but it's not necessarily that much more, and the time expended to get that little bit more (access end game content, get uber loot) is disproportionately large and just devastating for productivity and is a large oppurtunity cost.
Razoric said:
That's a cool idea; but one I and many others have suggested to blizzard a long time ago.
What I should've said from the start, but have been unable to articulate up till this point is that...
MMORPGs; they're ok games to include into a varied gaming hobby experience.
In terms of turning them into an actual hobby though, they're sure timewasters filled with regret for many people.
The problem then is that, you get the most out of the MMO if you go hardcore, but it's not necessarily that much more, and the time expended to get that little bit more (access end game content, get uber loot) is disproportionately large and just devastating for productivity and is a large oppurtunity cost.
heh.. no offense, but this entire statement is a contradiction. you say to get the most out of an MMORPG you have to sink in more time than itÂ’s worth. how does that make sense? again, your entire basis extends from playing it a certain way. sink in more time than itÂ’s worth and youÂ’ll regret it. worry about keeping up with the jonesÂ’ and youÂ’ll regret it. etc.Zaptruder said:
you are also wrong (IMHO) about the basis behind the MMORPG. The goal is in fact to keep you coming back monthly, however not to be on 24/7. In the typical MMORPG publisher’s world, the best MMORPG player/account is one who pays every month and puts in minimal time. This gives the highest return. The problem occurs when the gameplay and formula are addictive enough to establish a “just one more” pattern in individuals prone to such behavior, which is a hell of a lot of people from generation x on. However this is arguably a flaw in the individual, not the game or system.
You really are coming off as someone who got burned at some point. You keep harping on the same topics which in the end are almost all personality flaws, not game design flaws.
borghe said:
Ah fucks sake. How I'm I supposed to have a last say when I'm constantly willfully misintepreted like this and have dodgy theories thrown at me.
What's so contradictary about the statement? The things that you get out of the MMO might be the experience of actually playing that type of game in the first place, experiencing the variety in its gameplay mechanics, experiencing new sights, exploring the world.
Past a certain point, the repetition begins to set in; where you've explored nearly every corner of the world that is easy enough to access (as opposed to stuff like Onyxia's lair), the variety begins to wane and the effort to access new material ramps up dramatically.
But in absolute terms, the person who's seen onyxia's lair and has battled her has gotten more out of the game then the person that's only seen 80% of the world's surface and gotten to level 40 (which is about where the tactical varieties end, and the real differences are primarily to do with upping stats and numbers).
But the time difference required to get the more numbers and to battle Onyxia is really massive compared to the person that's just played 'casually'.
As for the gameplay... developers know that a good deal of people are obsessive hardcore nuts; and they'll cater to them...
and they cater to them by artificially slowing down the game, putting up excessively high barriers of entry and requiring large amounts of repetition.
Sure publishers love the people that don't play much but do so consistently for a period of many months or years, but you're mistaken to believe that, they're the people the games are designed for. By its nature, it asks the player to become an obsessive nut, and the hooks in the gameplay combined with human psychology compel them to do so.
krypt0nian
Banned
borghe obviously has mastered the "Summon Zaptruder" Spell. :lol
this is exactly my point. Zaptruder is basically saying "MMORPGs suck because a certain kind of player can play them in a certain type of way and look back on it and regret it." I mean that's not what he acts like he's saying, but each time, that's what he's saying.SaitoH said:
As I said, MMORPGs have a nature about them to keep you coming back. Of course they do. Anything with a monthly fee has that. It HAS to have that. Why do you pay for cable? So you can get BSG and Sopranos every week. Why do you pay for internet? So you can get porn. Every form of entertainment of luxury with a recurring fee is built upon the fact that it needs something for you to come back to every month. In this sense, MMORPGs are no more "dangerous" or "sinister" than your subscription to Playboy.
The problem comes directly from addictive personality types. People with no willpower. The "just one more" syndrome of MMORPGs isn't any worse than gambling, drinking, or really anything where you have fun. The problem lies within the fact that some personalities are willing to sacrifice important things to get "just one more". The activity doesn't cause this. No one is at the craps table holding a gun to your head. No one is at your computer desk strapping you down. It is YOUR decision on whether you are responsible or not.
Now sure you could say game companies could limit you. Say you can only login for 2 hours a night. But then you enter a whole new situation where you are paying the company your hard earned money and being told that you can't play (essentially).
Anyway, I digress. I think everyone here is on the same page. Even Zaptruder. I just think he really does have an agenda and is trying to turn everything into "It's the games' fault" at every opportunity he has.
What's funny is that I am CERTAIN there have been many instances of some wife leaving her husband because he won't stop playing console RPGs to spend time with her, and others who have left their husband because he won't stop surfing for porn, and others who lef ttheir husband's because they spent more time with their baseball card collection than they did with the little woman. This is about people with no self control indulging to the point of sacrificing other things in their life. This is not limited to MMORPGs, not even within just the gaming community.
Hell, never once did I say I regretted playing WoW. I regretted what I gave up to play it last time, but that is MY fault, not WoW's. Luckily it wasn't serious and I can attempt to change it (or leave again) this time around.
ToyMachine228
Member
I need help in WoW guys. Check the Online Forum, and please lend me a hand? 
SatelliteOfLove
Member
One hour days, long stretches off, 8 hour days on a few of my days off; it's just what happens.
borghe said:Well, in a moment of weakness, I reactivated my WoW account. I decided to take a break from my 47 Warlock and went into a Human Paladin. The only nights I haven't completely devoted to it are the nights I have my daughter, which is actually better than I was before when I played even on those nights. But still. All I want to do when I don't have anything pressing to attend to is play my Pally (level 12 now after only 6 hours of play).
Does anyone here who plays WoW actually play in moderation? Can it be done? I have to figure out a way to accomplish this or I'm gonna cancel my account again.
Note - I really have no willpower to begin with.
Do what I did, cancel your account and format your HDD.
oh and dont forget too loose your WoW CDs and the case with the cd KEY. Solved my problem
Mashing said:
Nah, I like the old EQ Halfling Druid Solution would be funnier.
Back in the EQ days, there were so many Halfling Druids they were like Night Elf Rogues these days. So people joked they should just randomly change some of the Halfling Druids to a different race/class with a patch.
The best patch ever would be the one that randomly assigns 45% of the Night Elf Rogue players a new race and class. :lol
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