Having played it, while I had some trouble with the controls at first, it wasn't so bad that you run into a wall like that.
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Sonic Lost World Review Thread [Embargo Ends: Oct. 18th, 4:00 AM EDT]
- Thread starter Dark Schala
- Start date
3ds version has different levels... I didn't know!
That part at 2:50... it's like 3d land type of shortcuts, but riskier.
You guys are missing the point.
If there are cheap deaths, and really poor designed parts of the game. Why not show that off? Instead of making it look like you're absolute shit at the game, on the first level of the game at that.
Like for crying out loud, it looks like they died on purpose and said, "this is why the game has x problem". Not bashing the integrity of the reviews, the game clearly has problems. But don't sit here and act like those deaths are a result of the game, and not the player.
If there are cheap deaths, and really poor designed parts of the game. Why not show that off? Instead of making it look like you're absolute shit at the game, on the first level of the game at that.
Like for crying out loud, it looks like they died on purpose and said, "this is why the game has x problem". Not bashing the integrity of the reviews, the game clearly has problems. But don't sit here and act like those deaths are a result of the game, and not the player.
Kay folks, I got the game today. Just finished the first world. Unless this game really messes up, I fail to see why it's bad. Enjoying it so far, but you never know what will happen next. I do consider myself a hardcore Sonic fan, but I know a bad game when I see one. I'm one of those who disliked Unleashed too. This one doesn't seem to be as bad.
The very first thing I noticed when starting up the game is how smooth it is. Dat 60 fps. Seriously, it looks amazing.
The very first thing I noticed when starting up the game is how smooth it is. Dat 60 fps. Seriously, it looks amazing.
Diablohead
Member
Sega should just blacklist IGN for the shit they do to troll sonic titles, it's obvious that IGN don't give two shits.
I think most people would expect them to, you know, know how to play video games.
They don't have to be good, they just have to be competent.
Yup, I'm liking this game. I was worried when I found out the Wisps were back, but it seems like they're optional for the most part. Some of them are actually pretty cool, but others seem unnecessary. It's a good thing that you don't HAVE to use the GamePad gimmicks (gyro, touch) since most of the Wisps can be controlled with the buttons anyway. The thing I dislike the most is how I need to save a certain number of animals to get to a stage. I don't like backtracking just to be able to continue.
It's not a big issue though. Really enjoying the game overall. The music is great as well (especially in Tropical Coast 3 - Zone 3!)
It's not a big issue though. Really enjoying the game overall. The music is great as well (especially in Tropical Coast 3 - Zone 3!)
SporeCrawler
Member
So what is the main issue with this game going from reviews?
It looks great.
Controls are good.
Level design is good.
It does not have shitty parts (like in unleashed or sonic adventure)
the only thing that worries me a bit is that it may be too short
It looks great.
Controls are good.
Level design is good.
It does not have shitty parts (like in unleashed or sonic adventure)
the only thing that worries me a bit is that it may be too short
SporeCrawler
Member
Its funny how you expect that people will not call out someone for not even knowing the substance of what he reviewed
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Its far from not knowing the substance of what he reviewed. Its more that reviews dont put the same value in the style of gameplay you obviously enjoy.
TheContact
Member
Glad to see this game is getting good reviews, I don't think we've had a good sonic game since Sonic Adventure
Come on. They gave Generations, Colors, and even Sonic 4: Ep 1 great scores. They don't go out of their way to troll Sonic games at all. At least not since Unleashed.
SporeCrawler
Member
Colors and generations
Dr. Buni
Member
Sonic Adventure was far from good. Colors and Generations were great tho.
+1 video game reviewers, plus fucking one.
Keep embarrassing yourselves. Or at least put up a disclaimer if you had to specifically capture footage of you dying for the video review or someone else staged it to have matching footage. Otherwise it's just sad.
petran79
Banned
if those videos are their first playthrough, any player would make those mistakes.
you cant know a level inside out from the first run. that video gameplay isnt meant for a competent walkthrough either.
also in the first GIF it is evident that he tried to press jump button right before falling of the edge. In some platformers this works, but apparently not in SLW.
in the second GIF, this sort of thing happens all the time, especially if the game moves fast.
in the third GIF, apparently some slip of the Wii U controller.
But it is a common problem that reviewers dont get enough time to devote themselves to one specific game. One week would be enough. hence why I preferred the old magazine format detailed reviews
you cant know a level inside out from the first run. that video gameplay isnt meant for a competent walkthrough either.
also in the first GIF it is evident that he tried to press jump button right before falling of the edge. In some platformers this works, but apparently not in SLW.
in the second GIF, this sort of thing happens all the time, especially if the game moves fast.
in the third GIF, apparently some slip of the Wii U controller.
But it is a common problem that reviewers dont get enough time to devote themselves to one specific game. One week would be enough. hence why I preferred the old magazine format detailed reviews
This and other videos like this need to be posted more. Reminds me of when TheBitBlock posted a video response to GameSpots Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword review showing how gamespot was straight lying about how the controls worked. We knew they were but it was good to see a video of it.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
At least we know we can blame IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku and the others when Sega inevitably does drop it altogether. The first two reviews in particular are just terrible; a lot of comparisons to the Galaxy games when the similarities only seem to be superficial (art style...even there Lost World has a quite unique one that's maybe more comparable to 3D World than Galaxy), and what amounts to difficulty over how Sonic handles, which just as easily can be interpreted as the reviewer not being good enough to master the controls. Also their complaining about the speed, sounds contradictory; I could swear these publications were always faulting some of the other Sonic games for being too fast and not encouraging exploration. Now we get one that's a bit slower and offers a lot of exploration, and that's bad too. They can't make up their minds!
These sites are supposed to be "professional", but aren't coming up with fully rationalized faults and aren't offering constructive feedback. They say the game is bad but do so with misinformation, and these sites have a LOT of clout in the consumer market. I almost get the feeling they don't want the game to sell, irrespective if it has real faults or not. And if you ask me, that's just malicious.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Yeah, good vid that. I hope he does a deep review of it himself sometime.
Also your avatar rocks.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
I've suffered many dumbass deaths in the Galaxy games and you don't see me using that to say those games are bad.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
That video certainly is fantastic, but here's the thing. One of my favorite SEGA games is JSR, and the truth is that game has a somewhat tough learning curve. Once you get it, it's amazing, but until you do, there's a lot of frustration. The brilliant visuals, soundtrack and atmosphere are what kept me going until I understood how to control the game, and if I were still a kid with loads of free time that would be absolutely acceptable.
But a lot of people want to be able to get some enjoyment out of their purchase without having to spend 10 hours figuring out the game's controls. Even if the underlying logic of how the game behaves is ultimately sound, sometimes that logic is complex or explained poorly, so that it takes too long to crack for a lot of people. Just look at the JSR HD threads on GAF for an example of this. I imagine Skyward Sword also took time for some people before it clicked, but due to the pedigree of the franchise as well as the developer, most people were confident their investment in learning the interface would pay off.
Unlike Sonic, most Mario platformers can be played and enjoyed at many different levels of skill, and different playstyles. But if Sonic by design requires quick reflexes and a thorough understanding of the controls and mechanics to be fun, it's going to turn off a lot of people. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but consumers should be prepared to make an initial investment going in.
The entire game one thing happens when you run into a wall: you climb it. There's no reason to believe you'd die in this instance unless you see it beforehand. And the controls when running fast in cilinders are definitely bad enough for this to happen. These sections are pretty fast and the controls are too sensitive.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Not really; they're probably using that footage to base their reviews on, under the assumption the interns must be pretty good @ the game so any stupid deaths can be blamed on bad level design when in fact it's b/c the intern isn't that good, but since they're thinking the intern is doing their job (and that includes being competent at games), they're under the assumption it must be the game's fault for those deaths, not the player's.
Literally all you have to do is run in a straight line in gif 1 and 2. Run in a straight line. Do nothing else. Don't stop, don't jump or walk backwards. Run straight ahead.
Wowfunhappy
Member
I'm really not one to get upset over review scores, but when they're mixed like this I just have no freaking idea as to whether I should get the game or not. If I don't get it, I could be missing out on a nice 3D platformer, something that's become all to rare in recent times. If I do get it and end up not liking it, that's $50 down the drain.
I wish it was possible to return games you didn't like.
I wish it was possible to return games you didn't like.
If you're a Sonic fan, definitely give it a shot. I'm really enjoying it so far personally.
The only game I've ever jumped back towards a disappearing floor is Ico, which is slow as molasses.
Unless the "Why can't Metroid crawl" guy is truly representative of gamers, I reject that jumping back to a floor that isn't there on a straight path happens all the time. It would be like running back towards the whale in Sonic Adventure.
I think it was pretty clear that that level didn't control like other levels as soon as you notice that Sonic runs forward automatically and you can only strafe left and right. And even if you find the controls so sensitive, the player in that gif didn't even try to run into one of the holes.
Well, the weird thing is I don't think there even is a strafe is there? (The lack of information regarding the controls is annoying)
When I went through that level I died once trying to figure out if there was a button for strafe, next time I just ran normally and got through it without issues.
That's terrible design, just terrible. You can't expect the player to magically know the game is going to behave in a completely different manner. There are plenty of other tubular sections in the game where you're running fast just like this and if you run into something, you climb it. This is, as far as I know, the only place it happens.
I have no interest in justifying what the guy did or did not, just saying that it's completely different playing or watching a gif, but the main point is not this specific gif but the fact that the game lends itself to these moments because it's completely obtuse and constantly behaves in unpredictable ways in the bad sense.
For all I know he could be dying on purpose, he can be a terrible player, or he could be trying to just slightly nudge the controller to get into the tunnel not lose speed because Sonic loses waaay too much speed when turning in these sections. All I know is that I died loads of times and taken out of context like this it would seem ridiculous but in reality it was because the controls and physics are cumbersome. So many times the lock on failed or I expected Sonic to jump further, or a slight nudge of the stick would send me flying off the screen or an enemy would be placed right in front of a boost pad. There are people plugging their ears and saying the problem is that people who say this are bad players or too slow, pretending that the game doesn't have deep structural issues.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy the game, in fact, great for those who do, but these problems are there and I can't overlook them, especially because the game is conceptually a step in the right direction making it a bigger pity that Sonic Team can't get the foundations of the game right.
Yes, but controls being unknown isn't enough to dock a game down to 4 or 5 in terms of reviews.
Alas this is the issue with putting a arbitrary value on a review though. Wish they'd just stop with it, they're entirely meaningless and yet most people(Players and Publishers alike) use it to decide whether a game is good and worth the money.
That Gif is bs. That section of the game is in every demo shown so far. I played through that section multiple times and have never, not once, died or found it difficult. I have moreover seen about a dozen people go through it and have never seen anyone go through what the player in the gif is showing.
Unpredictable controls mean you can't control the game right. If these are frequent and loads of control issues and other problems on top of each other pile up, you end up with a bad game. I hate scores too but if the place you work for uses them, you have to too and I know that I'd I had a terrible time with a game, it would take some very special circumstances to give it a positive score. Not that I agree with a lot of points some reviewers bring up, namely about speed.
Diablohead
Member
IGN people die on purpose, if it's was a legit death I would be fine with it or ignore it instead they troll like shit.
I agree with what you said but then why would they use their first attempt footage in the review video? it's not hard to play a stage again if you feel that the recording is not up to snuff.
Why should IGN deserve early review copies if the people or person playing it use extremely sloppy footage and downplay the game because of their choice of bad platforming or a slip of the analog stick? IGN are sonic trolls, their unleashed review is just as bad for "sloppy" gameplay.
It's hardly frequently unpredictable though. Only when you first encounter a new type of area, and honestly, the speed sections aren't really a new thing to Sonic. They go back as far as the Adventure games. As already mentioned the only thing that confused me was the lack of side step which was introduced in the more recent entries.
Don't get me wrong, the lack of any instructions regarding the controls is an annoying flaw, but I don't think it's quite as extreme as you make it out to be. That is unless the final 3 areas/stages some how change my opinion of that.
There are no walls in the speedy on-rails sections outside of that level.
The first world of the game has segments where you run on rails exactly like in the stage in that gif, which is in the game's second world.
The game already introduces on-rails segments early on in the areas where you get shot at super speed from a cannon onto a long tube, having to dodge enemies and collecting rings. The first time it's introduced, there are few, if any pitfalls. It's just you getting accustomed to the controls.
When that stage finally happens, the player should be expected to know how to operate the on-rails segments, and logically, if the player can't actually reverse it's movements then it should be logical to avoid walls that are so big that you can't parkour over them. It's classic design mentality; you introduce a type of gameplay and ease the player into it before pulling out more obstacles to challenge the player. And having personally gone back right now to check that stage, even if the player somehow magically forgets or won't know how to handle the on-rails section, the starting path is wide enough to not fall off of if you start controlling, and if you don't control at all, you'll run in a straight path and hit a spring which will launch you to a safe path.
If they can't handle that after getting used to to it then I'm sorry but it really falls upon the player to figure things out.
I only usually quote metacritic for shits and giggles, but it's funny how the 3DS version of Generations has a higher score than both versions of Lost World.
Personally I hope they abandon this whole parkour thing and go back to fleshing out the boost style of gameplay with better level design. They were on their way with Generations HD, so let's see more of that and less of this.
Personally I hope they abandon this whole parkour thing and go back to fleshing out the boost style of gameplay with better level design. They were on their way with Generations HD, so let's see more of that and less of this.
For real context, I will say again, he made pointed claims that he couldn't substantiate about games that are some of the most well received in gaming. He was called out by more than one poster after repeatedly dodging any sort of anything to support himself really. As for the "set upon", he was intentionally controversial and abrasive in the context of the thread, just desserts really.
Arc Christelle
Member
Actually I wouldn't mind if they combined parkour with boost style game play for a more unique and stylish experience when it comes to mastering the environment. That ultimate Sonic adrenaline rush.
Unpredictable controls? I think I've heard it all.
It's a new game, with new mechanics, you're not supposed to be able to predict anything, that's what makes it a new game.
Games are, for the most part, puzzle solving using trial and error. That's what the lives mechanic was made for, ffs. The fact that some games don't even have a game in them is why people reminisce of better days, when games forced you to think and experiment, and there were rules, like lives and continues.
There is nothing unfair about having to die to learn something new. Dying is part of the game design, not a flaw in it. You are supposed to repeat a section, get better, and feel like a badass when you finally pass something.
It's either that, or tutorials and hand-holding. And we all know how the unpredictable controls people would feel about that.
Juvenile reactions to games like this, real games for real gamers, are a symptom of dumbed-down game design being hyped by inflated marketing budgets and myopic corporate committees. If games like this can't find a place in the market, the market is no longer about games.
This game is beautiful, and expertly designed. The levels have so much meat that they make some galaxy levels look like a concept demo. The fact that people "ign"ore the essence of a game and judge it's quality on minor personal niggles is lame, but what can we expect from the "ignorant slut" people.
It's a new game, with new mechanics, you're not supposed to be able to predict anything, that's what makes it a new game.
Games are, for the most part, puzzle solving using trial and error. That's what the lives mechanic was made for, ffs. The fact that some games don't even have a game in them is why people reminisce of better days, when games forced you to think and experiment, and there were rules, like lives and continues.
There is nothing unfair about having to die to learn something new. Dying is part of the game design, not a flaw in it. You are supposed to repeat a section, get better, and feel like a badass when you finally pass something.
It's either that, or tutorials and hand-holding. And we all know how the unpredictable controls people would feel about that.
Juvenile reactions to games like this, real games for real gamers, are a symptom of dumbed-down game design being hyped by inflated marketing budgets and myopic corporate committees. If games like this can't find a place in the market, the market is no longer about games.
This game is beautiful, and expertly designed. The levels have so much meat that they make some galaxy levels look like a concept demo. The fact that people "ign"ore the essence of a game and judge it's quality on minor personal niggles is lame, but what can we expect from the "ignorant slut" people.
Yeah, strictly speaking there's no reason why this can't happen. Wallrunning's nothing new, and incorporating more of it into the level design would add some much-needed variety.
Backtracking a few pages here, but [citation needed]. I see this claim occasionally, and I can't think of a single instance of this outside of Green Hill Zone. Boosters don't even exist outside of Chemical Plant.
Hero of Legend
Member
I wouldn't mind terribly if they went back to boost gameplay, but as I said before, go with the 60fps treatment as seen here.
Obviously my ultimate Sonic game would be as close to SA1 as possible and done right. I want to see more playable characters again and explore places.
Also, when will you do Lost World's playthrough? I recall you saying that FTA is no longer with HellfireComms, but would he be back for this regardless?
My friend and I did the 3DS version blind yesterday on Twitch, that'l be up on the YT channel tonight with deaths etc. edited out.
As for the HD version, whenever I get a Wii U version I guess.
They should keep the parkour, but I'll be honest - Lost World's game play at it's core is built on such a basic foundation that it can be expanded upon in so many ways. That's why I'm mostly excited about the series' future and what can come out of it. I can imagine them taking Lost World and implementing a lighter, Colors-style boost in the future. At the very least I imagine the spin-dash or rolling getting an upgrade so it can measure up with the boost.
If there's anything Lost World gets right out of all things else it's that the franchise is now sitting on a foundation which could go so many different ways. They wouldn't have to redefine it if they'd want to add things or do things differently. Sonic generally controls as good in open environments in this game as he does in closed off ones. The boost could very well work with this game play, as long as there is good enough design built to support it and any other approach.
And by that I don't mean make all stages linear corridors.
Coffee Dog
Banned
SA1 to me seems like a hodgepodge that this game is much closer to pulling off, though.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
While I wouldn't go as far as the last part, I too miss when games were games. When not every game conformed to the exact same control scheme and offered new challenges for the player to overcome without being handheld all the way through the game (see also Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate for an example of a game that is thankfully still a game).