StarCreator
Member
Any Mania speedrunners available to do a run for the mini-GDQ that is now happening this weekend? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1425809
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sonic Mania |OT| Dreams Come True
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
- Start date
Ginger Hail
Member
They usually don't accept runs for games this new. I wouldn't expect it at the marathon.
StarCreator
Member
This isn't a normal marathon. I don't expect the normal rules to apply.
Sonic Mania is hot right now, so I don't see why they wouldn't run with it if it was submitted.
Ristifer
Member
I just replayed GHZ again after several playthroughs, and I took a pathway that I had not even seen before. It's just so cool to see different things, even after several runs.
Polioliolio
Member
Ergh.. As a kid when I played these games, it didn't bother me when I didn't get the chaos emeralds. It seemed like too big and difficult a task. As an adult, when I lose one of those mini games, the failure sticks to me and I feel like resetting.. But I'll keep trucking on. I'll save the anal attitude for the next playthrough.
I do wish you could practice the minigames though.
I do wish you could practice the minigames though.
RocketDarkness
Member
I went in debug mode and spawned giant rings to practice all the emerald stages. It helped a lot.
I sucked at the mini-games as a kid, and I still suck at them now. Doesn't bother me too much, haha. Just know you're not alone! Keep doing them and you'll get better. That's what I'm telling myself lol.
If you have all the emeralds, there's an extra final boss after the "normal" final boss that will automatically make you Super Sonic.
nephilimdj
Member
Really enjoying it in small bursts, only real neg is a few iffy crush deaths that seem like sonic magically has a massive hitbox.
Had issue were set to 4k and then changed out, casued nvidia driver to crash. lucky era of ssd, only took win10 10secs to reboot.
Had issue were set to 4k and then changed out, casued nvidia driver to crash. lucky era of ssd, only took win10 10secs to reboot.
I'm confused by the choice of including Hydrocity Zone in any capacity in this game. Is Hydrocity somehow considered to be a "good" water level from the series? Frankly, I never really understood the hate for Labyrinth Zone, but the level design in Hydrocity Zone (not to mention a lot of other zones in this game) is terrible. I don't understand how this passes for acceptable level design.
There's one point where you're faced with turrets shooting diagonally upward, and the floors below them fall after you destroy them (I think). I figure, "Ah, this should be easy. Just charge the spin dash and hit the turret just after it shoots." Nope. There's a hidden spring in the floor that bounces you upward and into the bullets. Why's the spring even there? If it's to get you back up to the area that you just fell from, then what's the harm in MAKING THE SPRING PLAINLY VISIBLE?! The misuse of springs (and spikes, often in tandem with springs) is complete BS in Sonic games.
There's one point where you're faced with turrets shooting diagonally upward, and the floors below them fall after you destroy them (I think). I figure, "Ah, this should be easy. Just charge the spin dash and hit the turret just after it shoots." Nope. There's a hidden spring in the floor that bounces you upward and into the bullets. Why's the spring even there? If it's to get you back up to the area that you just fell from, then what's the harm in MAKING THE SPRING PLAINLY VISIBLE?! The misuse of springs (and spikes, often in tandem with springs) is complete BS in Sonic games.
Just defeat the boss.
Life-long traveler of Sonic Cult/Retro/other long gone sites, I would easily say I've witnessed a majority of old Sonic fans from that period loving Hydrocity Zone to this day. It had features our kid brains never could have imagined like water surface running and a "3D" surface effect that adjusted based on your height (Watch the background!). It also featured one of MJ's most complex and catchy tunes in the game and tried very hard to push you through and out of water quickly to mitigate goopy water physics and breath-related deaths.
The zone was the most varied, non-organic water zone we'd seen yet with tons of parallax scrolling techniques and intriguing enemy concepts, as well as design that had big, open areas to pull momentum tricks off in.
As for that section you described, I can definitely see how that might be an annoyance especially if you were without the Bubble Shield to deflect the bullets, but I think Sonic 3 wanted to be unfair sometimes because it had a save and continue system. Anything to snatch patience and lives to keep you coming back. Sega's specialty was simple to grasp, difficult to master arcade games that stole your money.
I think something people also forget is that we blew through these levels as kids throwing our heads in to badniks and traps recklessly because you eventually learned to just grab a single ring after you get nailed and proceed to speeding through again. Level flow and enemy placement didn't matter as much to us because sometimes we could go really fast and see pretty stuff and we really just wanted to get Hyper Sonic for more pretty colors.
There's a lot of nostalgia at play here. I forget who said it first, but Sonic Mania isn't trying to be what Sonic was, but what you remember it as. Tilting my rose-tint's down for a second, the zone may not be the most endearing from all perspectives, but a lot of us seemingly remember Hydrocity as the friggin' shit and I feel that validates it being in Mania.
Zomba13
Member
You know what this game needs? That mode from Generations where you have 30 seconds to get as far into a stage as possible. I loved that mode. Had a friend who would beat my run then I'd beat theirs and we'd go back and forth. Time Trial is fine and all, but I liked the time limit for distance because it was like speed running for babies. Like, you're just doing the start of a level, finding the best route etc not for time, but for distance.
And regarding my issues on the previous page, I know. I know all of that (except the Steam Controller API stuff, I never used it and never knew what it exactly did other than letting you use something like a DS4 in xinput games). I was frustrated and annoyed because for some reason (at some point) DS4Windows stopped running in exclusive mode (like that time Windows 10 broke it but they fixed it and it worked again but you needed to allow it administrative privileges) and I'd only just now had issues with it (like previously when It did that I had the dual input in Steam Big picture and other games like Dark Souls, I had none of that here) and it was with this game and it wanted to use the Steam Controller stuff and it was weird and not doing what I wanted. Anyway, I've fixed everything now, got DS4Windows back running in exclusive mode at startup so all is fine until MS push another update that breaks it ^.^
And regarding my issues on the previous page, I know. I know all of that (except the Steam Controller API stuff, I never used it and never knew what it exactly did other than letting you use something like a DS4 in xinput games). I was frustrated and annoyed because for some reason (at some point) DS4Windows stopped running in exclusive mode (like that time Windows 10 broke it but they fixed it and it worked again but you needed to allow it administrative privileges) and I'd only just now had issues with it (like previously when It did that I had the dual input in Steam Big picture and other games like Dark Souls, I had none of that here) and it was with this game and it wanted to use the Steam Controller stuff and it was weird and not doing what I wanted. Anyway, I've fixed everything now, got DS4Windows back running in exclusive mode at startup so all is fine until MS push another update that breaks it ^.^
StarCreator
Member
I think the fact the music is intact in Mania confirms those are among the tracks MJ and his team had no involvement in.
Mm. Hydrocity had a remix in Generations and it wasn't one of the replaced tracks in the PC version of S3K.
Polioliolio
Member
I've experienced a handful of bizarre crushy deaths too, particularly in chemical plant zone in that area where you're jumping up those moving blocks as they rotate positions. It's too sensitive or something.
One other thing, when sonic goes fast fast fast, with a lightning shield and the rings are trailing behind, I've had some really bad slow down. Not Genesis style slowdown but somewhat more unpleasant.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I think we can use the PC version as a reference for the songs that aren't by Sega.
Hydrocity isn't a stage they've ever had problems referencing the music for.
GodIsOnTheRadio
Member
this sums up my first session with the game
sixteen-bit
Member
I'm on TMZ right now and it's funny how pigs are inside the turtle enemies and turtles are inside the pig enemies
Celcius
°Temp. member
Zomba13
Member
I did notice that! I got crushed in two places where I reeeeeeeeally feel I shouldn't have.
It's a pretty safe assumption in my opinion. The replaced tracks are Carnival Night, Icecap, Launch Base and the mid-boss theme, we've never heard remixes of them in other games and there's that stuff about Icecap being a Jetzons song. And if Michael Jackson did write anything in Sonic 3, it was probably that mid-boss theme.
Yup theres even whole different paths like upper, middle and lower paths wich play out entirely different.
After 40 hours i still discover new things in stages it's fucking insane for a game with only like 24 or so levels.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Knuckle's theme was also changed, but that could have been because it wasn't very good in 3 and was just a 5 second repeating beat. Although there's a few instances of MJ songs with very similar beats.
I'd love to hear the "raw" Carnival Night and Launch Base Zones. Most of the Internet seems to think Jam is Carnival Night, but I'm not convinced. There's a tiny little 3 second bit of Jam that is similar to Carnival Night. There were years where people were convinced Ice Cap was Smooth Criminal, when it clearly isn't, now that we know what it's really based from. So I think LBZ and CNZ have much more 1:1 comparisons like Hard Times, which are lost to time.
Knuckles' theme in 3 is actually just the drums from the mid-boss theme.
It's annoying that these issues could be stopping us from seeing any of those zones again, but I don't feel like Mania was any worse off for it. I didn't really care about seeing Icecap again because Mania's own ice level was far more fun and interesting. I feel like Icecap's biggest selling point is its music.
balladofwindfishes
Member
What's interesting is that Sega's already made a half way decent Ice Cap "remix" that captures a similar feel of the original.
This "remix" is actually quite good, and using Mania's Genesis-esque instruments, it might actually sound very acceptable. I wouldn't really mind this version on Ice Cap Zone if that what was needed.
There's no Launch Base Zone, but there is a Carnival Night. It has the same "feeling" of the original, but it's not nearly as good as the Ice Cap redo.
Same, went for the lowest possible route on GHZ act 2. Loved to see the Sonic 1 8-bits styled "caves".
About the Hydrocity music, there was this rumor about Scirocco telling that MJ called him to sing him the song of a water stage, and also he credits tracks 2 and 3 from Sonic 3 to MJ, but we don't know if those tracks are from the final version of the game or something deleted.
Also, the ending theme and the Competition Menu were replaced in the PC version and are probably MJ works too (well, the ending surely is because it's Stranger in Moscow).
s_mirage
Member
There was piece of copied music and a slowed down sample from "Jam" in Carnival Night Zone too, so that would seem to have MJ's fingers on it in that way at least.
Boy Wander
Member
Enjoying the game in small bursts. It's polished and well designed for the most part.
What I like:
- The soundtrack is fantastic. Well re-instrumented versions of classic tracks and good remixes.
- Level design is pretty strong for the most part with plenty of room for replay and discovery of new areas.
What I'm not so keen on:
- It's Sonic. So the frustrations I have with 2d Sonics in general apply here. There are quite a few cases where you either miss alternate routes or take a hit simply because you're going fast and you can't react to what's coming. In a game like Mario, you can plan where to go and how to get there. The speed of Sonic means that you don't get that chance. I personally find it frustrating to lose all of my rings because of this.
- The boss battles. They're ok but not too imaginative.
- The ball collecting mini game. It appears too often and its not that fun. It wasn't that fun 25 years ago either.
What I like:
- The soundtrack is fantastic. Well re-instrumented versions of classic tracks and good remixes.
- Level design is pretty strong for the most part with plenty of room for replay and discovery of new areas.
What I'm not so keen on:
- It's Sonic. So the frustrations I have with 2d Sonics in general apply here. There are quite a few cases where you either miss alternate routes or take a hit simply because you're going fast and you can't react to what's coming. In a game like Mario, you can plan where to go and how to get there. The speed of Sonic means that you don't get that chance. I personally find it frustrating to lose all of my rings because of this.
- The boss battles. They're ok but not too imaginative.
- The ball collecting mini game. It appears too often and its not that fun. It wasn't that fun 25 years ago either.
balladofwindfishes
Member
So is Eggman a drug lord or what is going on in Chemical Plant Act 2?
The needles, the heart monitor in the background music, seems like Eggman is doing some cooking to pay the bills.
Just something I've been thinking about since noticing it a little while ago.
The needles, the heart monitor in the background music, seems like Eggman is doing some cooking to pay the bills.
Just something I've been thinking about since noticing it a little while ago.
There is a looot of debate about this.
"A discography of another musician working on the game, Cirocco Jones (appearing as 'Scirocco' in the Sonic 3 credits), lists a "levels 2 & 3" as being composed by Michael Jackson and belonging to "Sonic The Hedgehog."
There is also research that found MJ being credited for a song labeled "The Water" for Sonic 3.
We probably will never know how much of his work made it to the finished product.
That said, the PC version is not a good gauge for what his team worked on because the replaced songs were ones that had samples that couldn't be replicated in MIDI and may even have been replaced because of the samples being MJs voice.
Mr. Smiley
Member
balladofwindfishes
Member
Hydrocity doesn't really sound like anything MJ would make. It actually sounds a lot closer to S+K music than the other Sonic 3 songs. It has the same sort of intense "big band" (I guess that's kind of the term?) way to it that's more similar to Flying Battery or Death Egg zone than the more pop-like tunes of the later Sonic 3 stages.
Also we can confirm MJ had no hand in Angel Island, due to the credits in Smash Bros not mentioning him in any way for the original composition. Sega also wouldn't pay for the rights to include 5 seconds of the song in Mania.
That just leaves Marble Garden and the multiplayer stages. Marble Garden's music was remastered in Sonic Generations, so that one is probably fine. Half of the multiplayer stage themes are in Generations in some way, so they're probably fine as well (and sound nothing like MJ music).
I doubt any of the S+K songs were touched at all by MJ. Sega has never had any issue with any S+K stage appearing in other games, complete with its original music.
My headcanon says that this part of Stardust Speedway was inspired by this part of Janet Jackson's "Nasty".
FeenixRising
Banned
Kor of Memory
Member
GHZ:
Summary:
So I love the game, it's amazing, but I feel like there is a dip in quality for some levels, and it seems like any level that has a super busy foreground is really not enjoyable for me. I would much more prefer interesting or dynamic backgrounds. The boss fights were really enjoyable for the most part, though a couple felt very uninspired. Overall I'd put it ever so slightly behind S3&K.
S3&K>M>>>2>>>>>1>>CD
I originally started off my post talking about this, but I moved it to the bottom due to potential spoilers for newer PC players:
This is pure bliss. I enjoy everything about this. The way the first bit is almost a shot for shot remake but then grows into this larger cave system with so many branching paths. I just love it. I could replay this level a ton, which is funny because I actually enjoy Emerald Hill more than original Green Hill Zone.
CPZ:
Somehow even better than Green Hill. The parts I love from Sonic 2 are all there and I enjoy them so much. Then all the new gimmicks added for Mania are just amazing and fit so perfectly. I've played the boss of Act 2 enough times now though that I feel kind of conflicted. I loved it the first couple times I played it, but for some reason I feel like it's missing something. I guess it just doesn't feel very satisfying and it breaks the pacing really bad. But I still love it.
SPZ:
So my feelings are mixed here. I really love the gimmicks of this zone, and the theme, and even the flow of the levels, but for some reason all the washed out colors bother me. It's a minor thing to take issue with really, but sometimes I can't tell whats background and whats foregrounds.
FBZ:
So here is where I fee like there is a small dip in quality. FBZ in it's entirely just doesn't feel that different to me from S&K, and I feel like no matter how hard I try to find a new path, I almost always find myself back on the main route. I wish the magnetic ceilings would have played a larger part. Act 2 also doesn't feel like as much of a difference compared to Act 1.
PGZ:
Same as SPZ, the colors feel washed out, and those crab batniks with the saw blades seem really out of place. I don't know if that crab enemy is from Sonic CD, but it really seems out of place, and it's hitboxes don't seem to match up with the buzz saw it's holding. Act 1 is okay, but again I find it hard to get off the main path. Act 2 is better, but feels really short as well. Again, stuff in the foreground is confusing.
SSZ:
Hate this zone. Both acts have way too much in the foreground to the point I can't tell where ground is to land on. The Act 1 boss feels incredibly uninspired. The Act 2 boss feels like it goes on to long. I would rather the Act 1 boss be the first half of the Act 2 boss.
Missing transition is jarring
Missing transition is jarring
HCZ:
I loved HCZ in S3, but I don't feel like there is enough changes here to make me enjoy this experience. I've taken multiple paths, and even though they are different paths they all feel very samey. Act 2 doesn't feel different hardly at all. Both the bosses are really good though, so I enjoy this a bit.
Missing transition is jarring
Missing transition is jarring
MSZ:
Act1 for Sonic and Tails is alright. It's the buggiest level in the game. I fucking hate those birds. I never see them spawn and I swear they hit me when they shouldn't. Boss is very misleading of when it's vulnerable. I got super excited when I saw the train, and then super disappointed when it only lasted for 20 seconds.
Act 1 for Knuckles is pretty much better. Feels like a much more fleshed out area. Boss feels as uninspired as SSZ Act 1 though. Maybe it's just bosses that are just bigger versions of standard enemies that bugs me.
Act 2 is great, but very busy. I really enjoy the level the more it gets going, but as soon as I notice I'm starting to enjoy myself, the level is over. Boss is super fun. Supposedly it's random who blows up your plane at the beginning, but it's been the bird for me every single time. Not sure what the odds are for that, but I'm suspicious about the random thing.
Act 1 for Knuckles is pretty much better. Feels like a much more fleshed out area. Boss feels as uninspired as SSZ Act 1 though. Maybe it's just bosses that are just bigger versions of standard enemies that bugs me.
Act 2 is great, but very busy. I really enjoy the level the more it gets going, but as soon as I notice I'm starting to enjoy myself, the level is over. Boss is super fun. Supposedly it's random who blows up your plane at the beginning, but it's been the bird for me every single time. Not sure what the odds are for that, but I'm suspicious about the random thing.
OOZ:
I loved this zone the moment I realized I could set all the oil on fire. Then I hated this zone once I realized all the flaws from Sonic 2 were still there. Those fire blasted platforms have landed on me and squished me way too many times. Once again, there is way too much stuff in the foreground that the screen gets too busy and it's hard to tell where I'm at or where I'm going. I don't think I've found a single large ring in this entire zone. I've seen one, but I've never been able to reach it. Boss for the first Act is kind of cheap the very first time, but then super easy. Boss for the 2nd Act isn't that bad for me, but it IS really slow.
Missing transition is jarring
Missing transition is jarring
LRZ:
I like this zone, loved it in S&K. It does suffer a bit from not feeling very different from it's original, but I do love the branching paths. As I said above, I just discovered an erupting volcano segment for the first time today, so that's awesome. Act 2 also doesn't feel very different from S&K. Once again I find it hard to get off the main path, or if I am off the main path it doesn't feel different enough. I like the bosses for both acts at least.
I enjoy Knuckles Act 2 boss fight, but I wish it had multiple phases or something. I feel like I could just destroy him before he got the chance to show me anything.
Missing transition is jarring
I enjoy Knuckles Act 2 boss fight, but I wish it had multiple phases or something. I feel like I could just destroy him before he got the chance to show me anything.
Missing transition is jarring
MMZ:
I never played Sonic CD, and if I wasn't told, I would have thought this was a brand new zone. I love this zone. The background gimmick is awesome, and I want more of it every time I play. The shrinking gimmick is fun too. Both bosses are fun. My only complaint is those beetle enemies. Their spritework reminds me of the crab enemies from Press Garden in that their color palette is so simple that I feel like this is a crappy fan creation or something. Both bosses are super fun, though I do wish the Act 2 boss had a little more variety in his capsules.
Missing transition isn't super jarring here, but I don't feel like a climax is building.
Missing transition isn't super jarring here, but I don't feel like a climax is building.
TMZ:
Act 1 is fun, and this is the only time I feel like even though the foreground has a bunch of stuff in it, it doesn't feel so busy that I can't tell what I'm doing. I enjoy this more than the average player it seems. Act 1 boss is good, but not great. I wish the game just alternated between up and down for the elevator, because I got stuck going down 7 times in a row and timed out my very first time fighting him. Was super annoying.
Act 2 took me a bit to understand what was happening. I actually enjoy almost all of it except for the lower left path. I really wish there was a rematch with each of the heavies for each quadrant though. The way they slide them into the boss fight doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I even did the super sonic thing and purposefully tried to kill them and they just don't die. Was kind of annoyed at that.
Act 2 took me a bit to understand what was happening. I actually enjoy almost all of it except for the lower left path. I really wish there was a rematch with each of the heavies for each quadrant though. The way they slide them into the boss fight doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I even did the super sonic thing and purposefully tried to kill them and they just don't die. Was kind of annoyed at that.
ERZ:
The first 2 or 3 times I did this zone, I hated it. It seemed really counter intuitive for me. Then I stopped trying to fly and just stayed on the ground and it seemed a lot easier and more enjoyable. I really wish the game had a little bit more of an ending. That little 8 second cartoon wasn't really satisfying.
Summary:
So I love the game, it's amazing, but I feel like there is a dip in quality for some levels, and it seems like any level that has a super busy foreground is really not enjoyable for me. I would much more prefer interesting or dynamic backgrounds. The boss fights were really enjoyable for the most part, though a couple felt very uninspired. Overall I'd put it ever so slightly behind S3&K.
S3&K>M>>>2>>>>>1>>CD
I originally started off my post talking about this, but I moved it to the bottom due to potential spoilers for newer PC players:
Man... Doing like my 6th play through of the game yesterday and today and I'm still finding new path ways.
Today I found a part of Lava Reef that played out like Hill Top zone from Sonic 2. The lava was erupting and slowing climbing upward and I had to out climb it. That was amazing.
I found the secret sub for Oil Ocean (I think) it just had 4 TVs inside it and some rings.
I found some very low path for Press Garden Act 2 that actually had death pits. Something that seems to be very rare in this game.
After playing through this many times I've noticed something. My enjoyment of this game takes a dip at SSZ every time. There is just something about this zone that I really don't find appealing at all. It's probably worth noting that I never played Sonic CD, but I also happen to really enjoy MMZ. I guess there is just something about the game where I feel like some of the fun just slowly fades the further in the game I get. With some exception. Zone by zone it would be:
Today I found a part of Lava Reef that played out like Hill Top zone from Sonic 2. The lava was erupting and slowing climbing upward and I had to out climb it. That was amazing.
I found the secret sub for Oil Ocean (I think) it just had 4 TVs inside it and some rings.
I found some very low path for Press Garden Act 2 that actually had death pits. Something that seems to be very rare in this game.
After playing through this many times I've noticed something. My enjoyment of this game takes a dip at SSZ every time. There is just something about this zone that I really don't find appealing at all. It's probably worth noting that I never played Sonic CD, but I also happen to really enjoy MMZ. I guess there is just something about the game where I feel like some of the fun just slowly fades the further in the game I get. With some exception. Zone by zone it would be:
SystemShark
Member
Any update on patches for console versions?
That was a pretty interesting read...but it doesn't really invalidate my headcanon since that little bit is present in the Sonic CD version too
(albeit at a faster tempo)FeenixRising
Banned
That was a pretty interesting read...but it doesn't really invalidate my headcanon since that little bit is present in the Sonic CD version too
Not saying it does, just using your post as a reason to repost it
Missed that post, interesting info there, but
Tee, I know you're not reading me, but that's bullshit. CD music was already amazing and yet you did some creative and equally amazingly remixes for CD stages.
The Albatross
Member
Sorry if this question is asked a lot. I've stayed out of the Sonic Mania thread so I don't spoil the game..
I heard that there were release issues with Sonic Mania on Switch, something about the start button messing up the game. I think I'd prefer to own it on Switch because of the portability, but I could get it on X1, PS4, or PC as well... I don't care about graphics and always play my switch in tablet mode, so is there one version that would be better?
I prefer mobility for a game like Sonic Mania, but I just don't know if that version is really busted or not, or waiting for a patch.
Thoughts?
I heard that there were release issues with Sonic Mania on Switch, something about the start button messing up the game. I think I'd prefer to own it on Switch because of the portability, but I could get it on X1, PS4, or PC as well... I don't care about graphics and always play my switch in tablet mode, so is there one version that would be better?
I prefer mobility for a game like Sonic Mania, but I just don't know if that version is really busted or not, or waiting for a patch.
Thoughts?
I only played a little bit of the game because I've been saving it for a trip, but the game when I played it did in fact have a ton of lag in accessing system menus when playing. I don't know why. It didn't break the system or anything, it was just mildly annoying. I hope it gets patched. Has it gotten patched?