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[The Xtortionist]

I didn't think TMZ was that hard lol, I didn't even die until the

Spoiler

act 2 boss

. It was just kind of long.

Spoiler

There's maybe an argument that TMZ's primary hazard is the timer. Unlike Scrap Brain or Metropolis, which just straight up kill you, TMZ (specifically Act 2) is more a test of precise navigation where the penalty for failing is lost time - eventually culminating in a time over. Not sure if this was the devs' intention with TMZ, but just looking at it from an outside perspective the goal may have been to utilize the timer as an antagonist as a substitute for death hazards. Getting a time over after ten minutes may be less frustrating for players than walking ten feet and getting crushed, or having a platform disappear over a bottomless pit, etc. Though, the stage still seems to be challenging players, going by all of the reports of time overs just from this thread. Just a different type of challenge, and that's kinda interesting.

edit - Concerning the length of the stage itself, while it's objectively very long, it didn't feel particularly bad to me while playing. Each section is dense with interactions - there's almost no dead air. So while it was long, I never got the feeling that it was padded out. There was always something neat to engage with.

 

[Eblo]

Finished up my Knuckles playthrough, which I wholly recommend if you've only done Sonic and/or Tails so far. What a fantastic game this has been. I expected it to be great, but not this great. It's a love letter written in all the ways I had hoped and more.

 

[sonto340]

Finished up my Knuckles playthrough, which I wholly recommend if you've only done Sonic and/or Tails so far. What a fantastic game this has been. I expected it to be great, but not this great. It's a love letter written in all the ways I had hoped and more.

Now play the game it was meant to be played.

Spoiler

Knuckles & Knuckles with no chaos emeralds Zero. None.

 

[Falk]

The only part I died in

Spoiler

Titanic Monarch

was when a platform raised with spikes and crushed me as Super Sonic. It's just a long level rather than a hard level, at least for me.

well duh levels go by faster if you're super sonic hahaha

 

[jman2050]

When this game inevitably gets into a GDQ there better be a donation incentive for

Spoiler

Knuckles & Knuckles%

 

[Neiteio]

When this game inevitably gets into a GDQ there better be a donation incentive for

Spoiler

Knuckles & Knuckles%

Can someone tell me what's special about that mode?

 

[Finalizer]

first death was a time over lolol

also fuck everything about the fbz2 boss. such a weirdly inconsistent fight.

 

[Forearm Star]

Oh lord I thought this was all a dream.

I needed this game. Best new thing for my Switch

 

[Aki-at]

well duh levels go by faster if you're super sonic hahaha

Hey now, I think all my years of perfecting

Spoiler

Glowing Spheres in Sonic & Knuckles

gave me an edge compared to most others too!

 

[Arkeband]

Can someone tell me what's special about that mode?

Meme power

 

[The Xtortionist]

Can someone tell me what's special about that mode?

Spoiler

Your partner is Knuckles

Even if you pick Knuckles

 

[Branduil]

Professional interest aside,

Spoiler

I really, REALLY digged Titanic Monarch zone as a whole. It was oppressive, there's a shit ton of things that can hurt you, Tee's music sounds like a JRPG final dungeon with a Saturn platformer-esque quality to it, and it combines with the aesthetic to convey that this is it, this is the seat of power and there's something terrible waiting for you at the center of the web, platforming vs speed had a pretty good balance, loved the branching paths in Act 2. If anything my one critique is a little too much focus on the gravity balls, but I don't particularly feel the zone overstayed its welcome. Getting a few timeouts there and restarting the zone is a far more pleasant experience than getting knocked out in Scrap Brain or Metropolis and then needing to do the entire game over again. If you've been speeding through the game, it forces you to start paying attention to lives (and rings, to gain lives)

In fact I'd rank it aesthetically, mechanically and difficulty-wise the best Sonic final zone ever, 2D or 3D.

Better than S&K Death Egg Zone? No way. Sonic Mania does a lot of things fantastically, but the finale of Sonic3&K is still the pinnacle.

 

[jman2050]

Better than S&K Death Egg Zone? No way. Sonic Mania does a lot of things fantastically, but the finale of Sonic3&K is still the pinnacle.

I don't actually like Death Egg Act 1 that much.

Death Egg Act 2 on the other hand though... basically the gravity gimmick saves the entire stage.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Better than S&K Death Egg Zone? No way. Sonic Mania does a lot of things fantastically, but the finale of Sonic3&K is still the pinnacle.

Death Egg is king in terms of scenario and presentation (though this could be said for S3&K as a whole), but the level design was always just kinda there imo. Nothing terrible, but nothing mindblowing. The gravity gimmick in Act 2 is alright, at least. Not big on the music either. You know from the first second or two of TMZ's theme that it's going to be the finale, but not as much with Death Egg's theme.

 

[Neiteio]

Spoiler

Your partner is Knuckles

Even if you pick Knuckles

butwhy.gif

 

[Branduil]

Death Egg is king in terms of scenario and presentation (though this could be said for S3&K as a whole), but the level design was always just kinda there imo. Nothing terrible, but nothing too memorable either. The gravity gimmick in Act 2 is alright, at least. Not big on the music either. You know from the first second or two of TMZ's theme that it's going to be the finale, but not as much with Death Egg's theme.

Get out.

 

[Rlan]

Professional interest aside,

Spoiler

I really, REALLY digged Titanic Monarch zone as a whole. It was oppressive, there's a shit ton of things that can hurt you, Tee's music sounds like a JRPG final dungeon with a Saturn platformer-esque quality to it, and it combines with the aesthetic to convey that this is it, this is the seat of power and there's something terrible waiting for you at the center of the web, platforming vs speed had a pretty good balance, loved the branching paths in Act 2. If anything my one critique is a little too much focus on the gravity balls, but I don't particularly feel the zone overstayed its welcome. Getting a few timeouts there and restarting the zone is a far more pleasant experience than getting knocked out in Scrap Brain or Metropolis and then needing to do the entire game over again. If you've been speeding through the game, it forces you to start paying attention to lives (and rings, to gain lives)

In fact I'd rank it aesthetically, mechanically and difficulty-wise the best Sonic final zone ever, 2D or 3D.

If anything, the oddest bit of the visuals for that level to me was that

Spoiler

Turbine Turtles and Slinky Spark enemies are too well animated compared to most enemies,
which are mainly based on prior badniks in some form or another.

 

[Neiteio]

Maybe I'll manage to beat TMZ tonight

 

[jman2050]

butwhy.gif

https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/609420230545309696/

 

[The Xtortionist]

Get out.

It's not bad or anything, just didn't make a huge impression on me.

 

[Neiteio]

https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/609420230545309696/

Let me try this

"Neiteio & Knuckles"

...hmm, not bad

 

[13ruce]

butwhy.gif

New ending.

Spoiler

+ a third knuckles after final boss

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Just finished Hydrocity and I have... count them... one Chaos Emerald.

But I'll go ahead and say it - this game is brilliant. Easily the best Sonic game, ever. It's just such an obvious labor of love. Everything is bursting with creativity. I'm encountering something new every five seconds and it just doesn't let up. The zones are huge. The music is bumping. The enemies are creative and placed challengingly. The bosses are fantastic.

Best game this year after Zelda. If Breath of the Wild hadn't turned out to be a generation-defining title, Sonic Mania - a $20 Sonic game made by fans - would have likely been my GOTY. That's insane.

 

[RiderKairuu]

Man,

Spoiler

Super Sonic

really trivialize's TMZ. Even the boss is piss easy. I can't figure

Spoiler

how to beat the true final boss

though.

 

[Neiteio]

Just finished Hydrocity and I have... count them... one Chaos Emerald.

But I'll go ahead and say it - this game is brilliant. Easily the best Sonic game, ever. It's just such an obvious labor of love. Everything is bursting with creativity. I'm encountering something new every five seconds and it just doesn't let up. The zones are huge. The music is bumping. The enemies are creative and placed challengingly. The bosses are fantastic.

Best game this year after Zelda. If Breath of the Wild hadn't turned out to be a generation-defining title, Sonic Mania - a $20 Sonic game made by fans - would have likely been my GOTY. That's insane.

I'm on the final world and only have two emeralds. I just realized that time runs out in special stages when you run out of rings. Whoooaaa.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Just finished Hydrocity and I have... count them... one Chaos Emerald.

But I'll go ahead and say it - this game is brilliant. Easily the best Sonic game, ever. It's just such an obvious labor of love. Everything is bursting with creativity. I'm encountering something new every five seconds and it just doesn't let up. The zones are huge. The music is bumping. The enemies are creative and placed challengingly. The bosses are fantastic.

Best game this year after Zelda. If Breath of the Wild hadn't turned out to be a generation-defining title, Sonic Mania - a $20 Sonic game made by fans - would have likely been my GOTY. That's insane.

Yeah, I feel the same way. It's my second favorite game this year after BotW.

 

[BassForever]

Having time to reflect the bigget misfire of sonic mania is making blue spheres tied to the check point bonus stages and having them in turn unlock bonus content. Unless you hard wipe your mania save info once you unlock everything (or get all golds for completionist) there is literally no reason to ever play blue spheres inside mania mode. The check point bonus stages should have been some kind of mini game to get more rings/lives/power ups and content unlocks should have been tied to beating the different campaigns with various emeralds counts as an example

Spoiler

beat sonic to unlock instant shield, beat with 4 or emeralds to unlock super peel out, beat with all 7 to unlock mean bean machine mode

 

[Aki-at]

It's not bad or anything, just didn't make a huge impression on me.

I felt the same way with TMZ theme myself, felt atmospheric sure but not what I wanted for a final level song. Prefer something a bit more twisted like Death Egg Zone in Sonic 2 or hectic and crazy like Eggmanland in Unleashed.

Man,

Spoiler

Super Sonic

really trivialize's TMZ. Even the boss is piss easy. I can't figure

Spoiler

how to beat the true final boss

though.

Spoiler

To beat the Egg Heavies King you just have to break away the orbs protecting him and just hit him with Super Sonic. Don't use the dash though, needless loses 5 rings and I'd suggest trying to keep Sonic on the floor rather than floating in the air, easy to dodge his incoming attacks. For Eggman you just have to try and get past his arms and hit him.

 

[ryan13ts]

Not sure if this has been pointed out yet but it's a small little detail from the old games that they kept in Mania.

I finished Studiopolis Zone Act 2 with 9:59'59 (Completely on accident) as my final time and I got a 100,000 time bonus at the end act total screen. In Sonic 3 and Knuckles, finishing at 9:59 would also give you the same point bonus as well.

It's a very small, almost trivial thing that they kept in but it just goes to show how much work these guys put into keeping all these little nods to the classics in the game. It's awesome.

 

[civilstrife]

What video filter is everyone using?

I can't decide between Clean and None.

 

[dlauv]

This and RE7 are for sure my games of the year.

I liked Nier and Persona 5 too, as runners-up.

If I get a Switch, I'm definitely triple-dipping.

What video filter is everyone using?

I can't decide between Clean and None.

On my TV, I prefer "clean." My sharping is kind of high, so "none" looks a bit too crunchy.

 

[RiderKairuu]

I felt the same way with TMZ theme myself, felt atmospheric sure but not what I wanted for a final level song. Prefer something a bit more twisted like Death Egg Zone in Sonic 2 or hectic and crazy like Eggmanland in Unleashed.

Spoiler

To beat the Egg Heavies King you just have to break away the orbs protecting him and just hit him with Super Sonic. Don't use the dash though, needless loses 5 rings and I'd suggest trying to keep Sonic on the floor rather than floating in the air, easy to dodge his incoming attacks. For Eggman you just have to try and get past his arms and hit him.

Thanks! I'll give it another shot tomorrow.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

On my second playthrough, I was able to get to the boss of TMZ Act 2 is under 8 minutes. On my first run, I timed out + it took an additional five minutes to reach the end .

TMZ becomes a lot more manageable on a subsequent playthrough. I really like it now.

 

[ElFly]

finished the game with sonic and tails. two emeralds

the final section drags a little. I wish

Spoiler

Lava Reef had been mystic cave (at least for the music) and that they didn't have two techocities together in the two final levels. made Titanic Monarch redundant

overall a really great game

 

[BassForever]

On my second playthrough, I was able to get to the boss of TMZ Act 2 is under 8 minutes. On my first run, I timed out + it took an additional five minutes to reach the end .

TMZ becomes a lot more manageable on a subsequent playthrough. I really like it now.

It took me longer then I care to admit to understand what was happening in tmz act 2. Once I understood what I was trying to do the level clicked, I just think it's a terrible final act/boss to end the game on.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

It took me longer then I care to admit to understand what was happening in tmz act 2. Once I understood what I was trying to do the level clicked, I just think it's a terrible final act/boss to end the game on.

Oh man, I love the final boss. The music track is so good. It reminds me of something you'd hear in a Konami arcade game from the late 80's/early 90's.

 

[Ristifer]

On my second playthrough, I was able to get to the boss of TMZ Act 2 is under 8 minutes. On my first run, I timed out + it took an additional five minutes to reach the end .

TMZ becomes a lot more manageable on a subsequent playthrough. I really like it now.

This. Some of these newer acts and

Spoiler

TMZ

can seem daunting at first. But once you play through it again and again, you'll be speeding through them and knowing them like the back of your hand. That's why I don't mind longer zones. You'll learn them eventually.

Also, I'm just hanging out at the end of

Spoiler

Press Garden Zone

Act 2 on my third playthrough so I can listen to the music.

 

[TheCongressman1]

What video filter is everyone using?

I can't decide between Clean and None.

None. Very crisp.

 

[jman2050]

This. Some of these newer acts and

Spoiler

TMZ

can seem daunting at first. But once you play through it again and again, you'll be speeding through them and knowing them like the back of your hand. That's why I don't mind longer zones. You'll learn them eventually.

Also, I'm just hanging out at the end of

Spoiler

Press Garden Zone

Act 2 on my third playthrough so I can listen to the music.

I'm having such a hard time figuring out what's my favorite song from this game, there's so many good options here.

Spoiler

Press Garden Act 2

is definitely a strong contender for sure.

 

[Branduil]

The weird thing about the final boss is it gets easier rather than harder as the fight goes on.

 

[ElFly]

What do you guys think is the earliest Sega hardware this game could have run on or been developed for?

Maintaining every effect and feature.

I would guess Saturn, but I'm not sure if even Saturn could do it without slowdown.

considering the resolution...nothing?

maybe dreamcast had a 720p output? I guess it could be done in 640x480 but the game is made for widescreen

None. Very crisp.

yeah, None for me

this game has some goddamn dithering patterns and I want to see them all. I appreciate that they are following the low color origins of the genesis so I am not gonna miss it by blurring it with filters

 

[BassForever]

Oh man, I love the final boss. The music track is so good. It reminds me of something you'd hear in a Konami arcade game from the late 80's/early 90's.

The weird thing about the final boss is it gets easier rather than harder as the fight goes on.

Yeah, I also find it weird that the boss fight includes

Spoiler

"rematches" with the hard boiled heavies, but you're better off just dodging when those events happen.

Had I feel the final fight should have gone is

Spoiler

eggman alternates between his shock and missile attack till you hit him 2 times, then when you get sucked into heavy land you need to hit them twice to escape, then thats when a leg breaks but eggman gets a new move for the defeated hbh.

 

[Neiteio]

Just beat the game with one life left! :-D

 

[Aki-at]

The weird thing about the final boss is it gets easier rather than harder as the fight goes on.

I feel he's a really cool boss but I didn't have much trouble with him

Spoiler

it's his hard boiled heavies that can be the tricky ones!

 

[The Xtortionist]

Just beat the game with one life left! :-D

 

[nicoga3000]

This game is super good. I'm shocked it took this long to get Sonic right again. But at least we've got it!

Also I still hate the damn blue sphere stages. I've finished one "row" of them in the Extras menu. This will take a while.

 

[RagnarokX]

 

[Geraldo_Ray]

Currently have three emeralds so far (made it to Oil Ocean Zone Act 1).

Spoiler

So far the only thing I ended up hating is the Chemical Plant Zone Act 2 boss fight. I didn't except an actual Puyo Puyo match with Robotnik, but it was an incredibly short fight that didn't really require any effort to win compared to the other bosses in the game.

 

[Neiteio]

Final boss was super-fun. I just dodged the heavies when I got warped to them, tho.

Now I get level select, yesssssssss!

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Just finished Hydrocity and I have... count them... one Chaos Emerald.

But I'll go ahead and say it - this game is brilliant. Easily the best Sonic game, ever. It's just such an obvious labor of love. Everything is bursting with creativity. I'm encountering something new every five seconds and it just doesn't let up. The zones are huge. The music is bumping. The enemies are creative and placed challengingly. The bosses are fantastic.

Best game this year after Zelda. If Breath of the Wild hadn't turned out to be a generation-defining title, Sonic Mania - a $20 Sonic game made by fans - would have likely been my GOTY. That's insane.

Yep. I don't play a lot of modern titles but both Zelda and Sonic Mania are two of the best gaming experiences I've had in a long time. Maybe ever.