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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas

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Emitan

Member
Tails, you're gonna crash! AHH!


Even when the game was new, I always the acting and animations were so poorly executed. But at the same time I forgave it because I was all "OMG SONIC TALKS IN A GAME! KNUCKLES IS TALKING TOO! :D" as a kid.

"LOOK MOM ITS SONIC AND HES TALKING LIKE IN THE SHOW!"

"That's nice, Billy..."

"BUT MOM I WANT A DREAMCAST AND I WANT TO PLAY SONIC!!!'

"No."

D:
 

BlackJace

Member
I think we can all agree that SA2 had the better scale right? The boss battles (The 2nd Sonic vs Shadow fight), the stages (Final Rush/Chase) just seemed more...epic? (god I hate that word)
 
I recall expecting them to hire Jaleel White to do Sonic's voice in Adventure, and initially thinking Ryan Drummond's take was Jaleel White, just based on a few of his clips from demos and such.

But then, I think I prefer Drummond. In retrospect, White was really grating. I even prefer Jason Griffith to him, as wooden as he could be (although he got better before Colors, at least)... Kind of prefer Roger Craig Smith to all of them, though.

As far as polish goes, I always thought SA2 was the more polished. I can remember several fairly specific and easy-to-replicate bugs in SA1 - I can't really remember any in its sequel. Level design also usually felt a lot more focused, and in several instances, game mechanics (mapping light dash to a button, without having to charge up spin dash, was a pretty damned good idea, for instance, although keeping the action button overloaded when you had two other buttons that were by-and-large unused was not).
 

nns3d

Member
I think we can all agree that SA2 had the better scale right? The boss battles (The 2nd Sonic vs Shadow fight), the stages (Final Rush/Chase) just seemed more...epic? (god I hate that word)

Egg Viper >>>>>

I think the boss fights in SA1 were alot better than the sequel.
 

BlackJace

Member
Yea the Egg Viper was pretty sweet (and HARD). But I liked fighting the GUN mechs and the character battles were ALOT better than SA1.
 

Sciz

Member
It seems like the only conflict that has a neutral perspective is Sonic vs. Gamma, since it's in Amy's story as well (and Sonic wins).

I wouldn't consider Amy's perspective on anything to do with Sonic to be neutral, but that scene does have Gamma as the loser from 3 of 4 viewpoints.

But then according to Tails, Sonic wasn't even there, so I don't think he counts either.


edit: Chaos 6 >>>>> *
 

OMG Aero

Member
I like how Tails inserts himself into each scenario. The best is the pre-Egg Hornet cut scene.

(Sonic's story)
Eggman: Well, if it isn't Sonic!

(Tails' story)
Eggman: Well, if it isn't Sonic... and Tails!
I've been watching an LP of all the main Sonic games recently and when they got to Tails' story they came up with the great idea that Tails has a mental disorder and his story is how he sees the world. Although Tails always follows Sonic around, Tails believes that he is the hero and does all the important stuff.
 
These were the more memorable Adventure boss battles to me...

SA1:
Sonic vs. Chaos 6, Egg Carrier Act 2, Egg Viper (get a load of this!!), Amy vs. Crazy Robo, Gamma Vs. E102r, Tails Vs. Egg Walker, and of course Perfect Chaos.

SA2:
Sonic vs Shadow (final chase)... and.. Biolizard, and Final Hazard... and The Gun Walker thing...

SA2 was a lot more polished of course, but SA 1 had a lot more meaningful, varied battles.
 
I recall expecting them to hire Jaleel White to do Sonic's voice in Adventure, and initially thinking Ryan Drummond's take was Jaleel White, just based on a few of his clips from demos and such.

But then, I think I prefer Drummond. In retrospect, White was really grating. I even prefer Jason Griffith to him, as wooden as he could be (although he got better before Colors, at least)... Kind of prefer Roger Craig Smith to all of them, though.

As far as polish goes, I always thought SA2 was the more polished. I can remember several fairly specific and easy-to-replicate bugs in SA1 - I can't really remember any in its sequel. Level design also usually felt a lot more focused, and in several instances, game mechanics (mapping light dash to a button, without having to charge up spin dash, was a pretty damned good idea, for instance, although keeping the action button overloaded when you had two other buttons that were by-and-large unused was not).
SA1 was always buggier due to its swift development speed and having to work with code ported from freakin' Sonic Jam (re: the Sky Chase mini-game's usage of Saturn-era polygonal models for Sonic and Tails, lol). Sonic Team definitely had it easier working on SA2, with more development time on its hands in addition to experience with the Katana dev kits. Nevertheless, a good deal of the level design was more imaginative in SA1 (Windy Valley and Red Mountain come to mind), and the variety of challenges was just as great. Levels like Metal Harbor weren't that interesting, even with streamlined controls for light-dashing etc.

Egg Viper >>>>>

I think the boss fights in SA1 were alot better than the sequel.
They were. Egg Viper always had risky elements to it that made the player take a good amount of precaution, and the Chaos battles were well-developed and varied in a lot of ways. ZERO had interesting moves as well, and fighting Chaos 6 as Big was hilarious.

Let's talk about SA1's music catalog, now:

Final Egg (Mechanical Resonance)
Sky Deck (Skydeck a Go Go!)
Lost World (Tricky Maze)
Speed Highway (At Dawn...)
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Aw, you don't like a lot of the ones I like. :/

I didn't like the Egg Dragoon mix because it lacks the harshness of the original (ie: the mixing has reduced the prominence of the brass, which makes the theme less hard-hitting). Percussion is emphasized more, and that's kind of unfortunate for me, because the brass was what I came for in that theme originally.

You listed my favourites already. :D

I'm more fond of Sonic Adventure 2's soundtrack, to be honest. Apparently I'm in the minority for that, lol.
 

Gravijah

Member
Aw, you don't like a lot of the ones I like. :/

I didn't like the Egg Dragoon mix because it lacks the harshness of the original (ie: the mixing has reduced the prominence of the brass, which makes the theme less hard-hitting). Percussion is emphasized more, and that's kind of unfortunate for me, because the brass was what I came for in that theme originally.
those are just the 5 that really stand out in my mind. seaside hill is definitely one of my favorite songs in the series, and i think i prefer that version of sky sanctuary to the original... we'll see. plus the 3d sonic blast song is all kinds of awesome!

i actually haven't heard the original egg dragoon before, the original is definitely better. i just like the song as a whole, really. and i really enjoyed the battle.
 

qq more

Member
I have an account there, but I almost never use it. Still, I've gotten around - Sonic HQ, SRB2, The GHZ, Sonic Retro...

Oh SRB2. That explains it! I used to post there and hung around in the IRC chat and made SRB2 maps... good ol times. I wonder how much the fangame has changed...
 
I'm more fond of Sonic Adventure 2's soundtrack, to be honest. Apparently I'm in the minority for that, lol.
I'm less fond of SA2's myself, and you do seem to be in the minority. SA1 just has more variety in style and is less constricted by contextual obligations, without all of that faux-Middle Eastern music mixed in with generic rock and techno backings. It's got more of that Jun Senoue influence, something I've come to feel pretty iffy about it, and Tomoya Ohtani's wonderful jazz-hope got mitigated by Hunnid-P's heinous rapping that felt out of place, as brave as it was (but it does work for Unknown From M.E.). Still a great soundtrack—but SA1 really raised the standards of what Wave Master could put out, and they've continued to evolve and strengthen as a sound team without Jun Senoue. We can thank guys like Naofumi Hataya and Tomoya for pulling the Sonic sound contributors together time and time again (and both of those composers happen to be the best rhythm game music composers in the scene right now, after listening to their work on Space Channel 5 extensively).

—Darn, it's just so much easier to talk about game music than the games themselves. I guess that's because music is far more accessible than any other art-form, haha.
 

JonCha

Member
those are just the 5 that really stand out in my mind. seaside hill is definitely one of my favorite songs in the series, and i think i prefer that version of sky sanctuary to the original... we'll see. plus the 3d sonic blast song is all kinds of awesome!

i actually haven't heard the original egg dragoon before, the original is definitely better. i just like the song as a whole, really. and i really enjoyed the battle.

Yeah, Egg Dragoon isn't that bad imo. The rail grinding is a little weird, you can fall off just by trying to change rail, but it's pretty easy to get used to. It's just very, very difficult on Hard though!

And Classic Seaside Hill is my favourite <3.
 
I really wish there were instrumental versions of the tracks in Knuckles' SA2 stages. Aquatic Mine has a great beat that's somewhat obscured by the lyrics.
 

qq more

Member
I really wish there were instrumental versions of the tracks in Knuckles' SA2 stages. Aquatic Mine has a great beat that's somewhat obscured by the lyrics.

While that's an interesting idea, they shouldn't do an instrumental version of Pumpkin Hill. The lyrics are just so hilarious it wouldn't be the same without it
 
I'm more fond of Sonic Adventure 2's soundtrack, to be honest. Apparently I'm in the minority for that, lol.

While I would say that SA has the overall better soundtrack (Azure Blue World could win it for me alone) I think I probably prefer the SA2 soundtrack more with Metal Harbor being my main pick.
Oh and if anyone is in a minority here it's going to be me for saying that Rouge's stages had awesome music, the best batch after Sonic's stage themes.
 
Being the community thread and about sonic I thought that I would show something I have been working on today.

I ported the old fan game Sonic SV to iOS, old fangame platform movement included :p

HivL8.png

GXjfB.png


It's like seeing your first born learn to ride a bike without stabilizers :sniff:

Obviously I can't sell it and I know that it will cause shit on the app store for free, must be a way to share it to others.
 
All good choices. Also really liked "Mt. Red - a Symbol of Thrill" (great piano lead), "Pleasure Castle", "Windy Hill" (really love the synths in this one - definitely makes me think Saturn), "Snowy Mountain" (that reverb, man), "Windy and Ripply" (great reverb and synths), "Theme of Dr. Eggman" (this needs to get used more often) and "Militant Missionary" (I think being stuck on Egg Viper for a good hour the first time I fought him helped ingrain this into my memory)...

Hell, can we just say the entire soundtrack? I can't think of any duds, except maybe "Danger is Imminent", which was fortunately used, like, once.
 

qq more

Member
Being the community thread and about sonic I thought that I would show something I have been working on today.

I ported the old fan game Sonic SV to iOS, old fangame platform movement included :p

HivL8.png

GXjfB.png


It's like seeing your first born learn to ride a bike without stabilizers :sniff:

Obviously I can't sell it and I know that it will cause shit on the app store for free, must be a way to share it to others.

I remember this game. Didn't you also had a sequel but ended up scrapping it and released the source TGF file of its engine?


EDIT: That reminds me, I've recently found my old shitty Sonic fangame (known as Sonic 2k4).

fangame%20oh%20god.png

Jesus... the graphics were so awful. lol The awful gradients in the HUD. The pointless "AIR" hud and really awful looking tiles.
 

I really liked the Death Egg theme and Modern Sky Sanctuary; a bit upset at what they did with the Egg Dragoon theme. These are my favorites:

Crisis City [Modern]
Rooftop Run [Classic]
Speed Highway [Classic]
Collection Room [Door into Summer]
For True Story... Sonic vs Shadow [Circuit Freq. REMIX]
 

Rikkun

Member
Hey guys.

So.. why should I avoid Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood?
Music aside. Is the story that bad? Or the gameplay?
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Hey guys.

So.. why should I avoid Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood?
Music aside. Is the story that bad? Or the gameplay?
Check out my LTTP thread to see why: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430876.

In short, the gameplay is quite mediocre. But the characterization is very well-done, imo.

We can thank guys like Naofumi Hataya and Tomoya for pulling the Sonic sound contributors together time and time again (and both of those composers happen to be the best rhythm game music composers in the scene right now, after listening to their work on Space Channel 5 extensively).

&#8212;Darn, it's just so much easier to talk about game music than the games themselves. I guess that's because music is far more accessible than any other art-form, haha.
I totally agree with you on that. Hataya and Ohtani (and Tokoi) are a few of my favourite modern composers at the moment. Their stuff is great. And yeah-- I find talking about VGM a lot easier than talking about the games. Just take a look at the Soundtrack of the Year voting thread from 2011! Gosh. :lol

While I would say that SA has the overall better soundtrack (Azure Blue World could win it for me alone) I think I probably prefer the SA2 soundtrack more with Metal Harbor being my main pick.
Oh and if anyone is in a minority here it's going to be me for saying that Rouge's stages had awesome music, the best batch after Sonic's stage themes.
Yeah. I think I mostly go to SA2 because I play the guitar (and sometimes bass), so I find the music easier to relate to and tab out myself. Fly in the Freedom's pretty good, imo.

But I have to admit that I like the Knuckles themes a lot; they're very catchy. And Metal Harbour is fantastic... but Aquatic Mine has that irresistible electric piano. :3

EDIT: That reminds me, I've recently found my old shitty Sonic fangame (known as Sonic 2k4).

fangame%20oh%20god.png

Jesus... the graphics were so awful. lol The awful gradients in the HUD. The pointless "AIR" hud and really awful looking tiles.
Hey. Take solace in the fact that it looks better than Sonic 4.
 

Sciz

Member
Oh and if anyone is in a minority here it's going to be me for saying that Rouge's stages had awesome music, the best batch after Sonic's stage themes.

Ignoring Knuckles for obvious reasons and a couple of Sonic's stages (the series could use more ska), Rouge is the only character who has music that doesn't consist of Senoue jam sessions. She wins by default.
 

Rikkun

Member
Check out my LTTP thread to see why: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430876.

In short, the gameplay is quite mediocre. But the characterization is very well-done, imo.

hmm, I might try it, thanks. What I usually can't stand about jRPGs is the length, so I could 'enjoy' it.

Too bad it didn't turn out to be a good game. I remember I got to interview Greg Zeschuk during the official Mass Effect presentation here in Italy, and I asked him about the game. He said they were huge fans of Sonic, and they were trying their best for the game.
 

Gravijah

Member
jim-jam bongs considers dark brotherhood one of his favorite games of all time. i really need to ask him if he was just joking...
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
jim-jam bongs considers dark brotherhood one of his favorite games of all time. i really need to ask him if he was just joking...
D:

Ignoring Knuckles for obvious reasons and a couple of Sonic's stages (the series could use more ska), Rouge is the only character who has music that doesn't consist of Senoue jam sessions. She wins by default.
The ska was a welcome addition to the series. Really enjoyed it.

hmm, I might try it, thanks. What I usually can't stand about jRPGs is the length, so I could 'enjoy' it.

Too bad it didn't turn out to be a good game. I remember I got to interview Greg Zeschuk during the official Mass Effect presentation here in Italy, and I asked him about the game. He said they were huge fans of Sonic, and they were trying their best for the game.
Well, that seemed to have come through in the character writing, which is really great. The characters, even Shadow, became likable all of a sudden. Amy seemed to have been written to be worse, but overall, the characterization is probably the best part of the game.

I wrote the OP from the perspective of someone who plays a lot of JRPGs, but it seemed like other people shared my perspective on it. So, outside of the music, it's pretty standard fare; it doesn't really blow me away in terms of narrative or battle system (which could use a little bit of work).
 

qq more

Member
Hey. Take solace in the fact that it looks better than Sonic 4.

Eh, to be fair, mines was just a recolored EHZ with another ripped background slapped on to it. That and I was 13/14 when I did this.


EDIT: ...MMF2 games can be ported to iOS? Ehhh I'd give it a try but I lack any iOS device and I hate traditonal gaming with touch-only.
 
Just pimpin' in de alley.

I really wish there were instrumental versions of the tracks in Knuckles' SA2 stages. Aquatic Mine has a great beat that's somewhat obscured by the lyrics.
Voila!. Tomoya's beats have been part of what's redefined Sonic music lately, and it all started in the SA2 Knuckles levels. If all of the beats were instrumentals, untainted by bothersome bad lyrics (excepting Pumpkin Hill, because it's so bad), then I could rate the soundtrack more closely to SA1's. Listen to those acoustic colors amidst the synth and electric guitars!

All good choices. Also really liked "Mt. Red - a Symbol of Thrill" (great piano lead), "Pleasure Castle", "Windy Hill" (really love the synths in this one - definitely makes me think Saturn), "Snowy Mountain" (that reverb, man), "Windy and Ripply" (great reverb and synths), "Theme of Dr. Eggman" (this needs to get used more often) and "Militant Missionary" (I think being stuck on Egg Viper for a good hour the first time I fought him helped ingrain this into my memory)...

Hell, can we just say the entire soundtrack? I can't think of any duds, except maybe "Danger is Imminent", which was fortunately used, like, once.
For the most part, yes. I'm sure the jingles are serviceable and there'll be a few stinkers in there if I went back to check, but it's effectively 16-bit Sonic music brought into an era of Cd-quality sound (disregarding Sonic CD, which was more of a realization of the Japanese Sonic pop aesthetic promulgated by Dreams Come True and SEGA's advertising).

Metal Harbor has awesome music—I love ska.
 
Interesting to know it works that well. I messed with the Newgrounds version Flash exporter at one point, and was really disappointed by the result.

I have been using it for 4 months and I am still getting use to things but it is rather straight forward, there is a memory issue in the latest build but you can work around it, I forgot with SV earlier and it will crash after the first mine stage right now :(
 
Voila!. Tomoya's beats have been part of what's redefined Sonic music lately, and it all started in the SA2 Knuckles levels. If all of the beats were instrumentals, untainted by bothersome bad lyrics (excepting Pumpkin Hill, because it's so bad), then I could rate the soundtrack more closely to SA1's. Listen to those acoustic colors amidst the synth and electric guitars!

My word, this is such a massive improvement over the standard lyrical version!
 
Voila!. Tomoya's beats have been part of what's redefined Sonic music lately, and it all started in the SA2 Knuckles levels. If all of the beats were instrumentals, untainted by bothersome bad lyrics (excepting Pumpkin Hill, because it's so bad), then I could rate the soundtrack more closely to SA1's. Listen to those acoustic colors amidst the synth and electric guitars!

Man, it really is a lot better without the lyrics.
 
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