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Sony’s classic PlayStation games on PS Plus appear to be 50hz – even in non-PAL regions

IbizaPocholo

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
www.videogameschronicle.com

Sony’s classic PlayStation games on PS Plus appear to be 50hz - even in non-PAL regions | VGC

First-party games appearing in Asian markets look to be the PAL European versions…
www.videogameschronicle.com www.videogameschronicle.com

PlayStation 1 and PSP games started appearing on Asian region PlayStation Stores earlier today, ahead of the revamped PlayStation Plus coming to select markets on Tuesday.

A user playing the PSOne version of Ape Escape via the Indonesian PS Store first noticed that it appears to be based on the PAL version of the game, because it credits Sony Computer Entertainment Europe during its intro (instead of America or Japan) and runs at 25fps instead of 30fps.

All other first-party PSOne games on the “Classics” line-up, including Everybody’s Golf, Wild Arms, Jumping Flash and Kurushi, also appear to be based on the European PAL versions, VGC has confirmed (see the Twitter embed below).

In addition, both Worms games, World Party and Armageddon, appear to be based on their PAL versions. However, other third-party games on the service such as Tekken 2, Syphon Filter, Abe’s Oddysee and Mr. Driller appear to be based on the NTSC versions.

PAL is a video format used in many regions including Europe and Australia, which runs at 50hz compared to NTSC’s faster 60hz refresh rate. Many PAL versions of early console games are considered inferior due to their slower speed, with some even sporting borders at the top and bottom of the screen.

Indonesia uses the PAL video format, so it would perhaps be unsurprising if it’s issued European version of some classic PlayStation games on PS4 and PS5, even if it is inferior to the NTSC original.

However, VGC has verified that the exact same PAL versions of Sony’s first-party games are what are being offered on the Taiwan PS Store – a region which uses the NTSC video format. This could suggest that Sony plans to roll out PAL games globally.

 
GenericUser

GenericUser

Member
Duckstation has the option to force 60Hz timings even on PAL games. Wonder why sony thought people prefer 50Hz? It makes games slower then intended (most games from that era came from NTSC Japan and NTSC US) and therefore can destroy the whole feeling of a game.
 
Calverz

Calverz

Member
GenericUser said:
Duckstation has the option to force 60Hz timings even on PAL games. Wonder why sony thought people prefer 50Hz? It makes games slower then intended (most games from that era came from NTSC Japan and NTSC US) and therefore can destroy the whole feeling of a game.
Click to expand...
The big question they need to answer.
 
Vognerful

Vognerful

Member
GenericUser said:
Duckstation has the option to force 60Hz timings even on PAL games. Wonder why sony thought people prefer 50Hz? It makes games slower then intended (most games from that era came from NTSC Japan and NTSC US) and therefore can destroy the whole feeling of a game.
Click to expand...
DF had always said that Sony had a problem with backward compatibility on their systems since PS4 console. They also had hoped they would improve their ps1 and PS2 backward compatibility on PS5.

Hopefully the next updates proves they have more in the bag than just running games.
 
F

Filben

Member
After reading about flickering and texture issues in Primal on PS5 via PS2 emulation I gave up hope Sony will manage to have proper emulation.
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
GenericUser said:
Duckstation has the option to force 60Hz timings even on PAL games. Wonder why sony thought people prefer 50Hz? It makes games slower then intended (most games from that era came from NTSC Japan and NTSC US) and therefore can destroy the whole feeling of a game.
Click to expand...
PAL as a TV standard is superior to NTSC in terms of colour accuracy and resolution so there might be a situation where old NTSC -> Rec 2020 output, is worse than old PAL -> Rec 2020 output. Or more likely, because the PAL versions of games released later they would have had more bug fixes and more localization, so from a re-release business point of view are superior. Also, the licensing agreements will be later too, so might reduce legal work too for re-issue using the last updated contract.
 
nush

nush

Member
Sony,

giphy.gif
 
K.N.W.

K.N.W.

Member
But playback of 25/50 FPS games with a 60 hz refresh rate means judder and improper framepacing! Again! After Playstation Classic, they are doing this again! I hope they find a way to force games at 60 hz, or they enable 50 hz output at least for legacy content on PS4 and PS5, just like how they support 24 hz for blu ray.

Filben said:
After reading about flickering and texture issues in Primal on PS5 via PS2 emulation I gave up hope Sony will manage to have proper emulation.
Click to expand...
Where did you hear about PS2 emulation on PS5?? Never heard of it.
 
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T-Cake

T-Cake

Member
I count myself lucky in not discovering PlayStation until PS3 when everything was HD and none of this PAL/NTSC nonsense.
 
SLB1904

SLB1904

Banned
RobertsK said:
Hey, it is not bothering you. Neither does it bother me. But based on what I have seen on twitter, some people are not too happy. Should we sweep it under the rug?
Click to expand...
Why 50hz even a thing. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I guess you guys are always in defensive mode.
 
F

Filben

Member
Last edited:
Tams

Tams

Member
SLB1904 said:
Why 50hz even a thing. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I guess you guys are always in defensive mode.
Click to expand...
Because TV broadcasts were matched to the electrical grid frequencies to minimise interference. PAL was mostly for Europe, that used and uses 50Hz. North America uses 60Hz. Japan uses 50Hz in the east/north and 60Hz in the west/south.

Here, have a Quora post.

Look, we get that you may be young and/or from a different region, but try to not be so ignorant and do some basic research. There's no excuse in this day and age (I'm typing this as I take a shit, ffs).
 
I Love Rock 'n' Roll

I Love Rock 'n' Roll

Member
EEEEMMUUULLAAATTTIIOOOONNNN. As a kid, i had a SFC, a japanese Saturn and PSX because i would never pay full price after playing Sonic at 60Hzvs 50. Pal sucks and has always been. People should experince once in their life Street Fighter 2 at 50Hz! 😂🤷‍♂️😱🤦‍♂️

F*ck you Sony. You should have gave us the OPTION to choose our rom. You won’t get my money on this. At least, we can create an US account and pay with cards from eBay!
 
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SLB1904

SLB1904

Banned
Tams said:
Because TV broadcasts were matched to the electrical grid frequencies to minimise interference. PAL was mostly for Europe, that used and uses 50Hz. North America uses 60Hz. Japan uses 50Hz in the east/north and 60Hz in the west/south.

Here, have a Quora post.

Look, we get that you may be young and/or from a different region, but try to not be so ignorant and do some basic research. There's no excuse in this day and age (I'm typing this as I take a shit, ffs).
Click to expand...
For fuck sake.
I know damn well about that.

"Why 50hz is a thing on their new service"
 
manzo

manzo

Member
Are there actually people stupid enough to say PAL is better?

On analogue color conversions sure, but at the age of RGB and digital formats, it holds no difference. The only good thing in PAL is easier movie conversions without 3:2 pulldown.

For video games, it’s inferior in every fucking sense, as long as you’re using something else than composite video or RF. You have slower speeds in games because of clocks AND slower framerates. 30fps games are 25fps. This is a fuck up of a century for Sony and there is no way around it.

I’ll keep my original Playstation until it dies, then I’ll just move to a Mister setup.
 
NeoIkaruGAF

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
If this turns out to be true, the Nintendo fanboys will have a field day, lol.

I remember when Nintendo did this for the Wii VC, some people would actually shrug and say “this is how I played the games in my childhood, it’s no big deal”.

Yeah… no.

The first time I emulated a NES game I had played in PAL as a child, I immediately understood why this was a big deal.
Sure, the PAL colors and picture density (for lack of a better word) were always better than NTSC. I remember going to the US for the first time and noticing TV broadcasts looked somehow grainy and washed out compared to what we had in Europe. And the slower music in PAL games had its charm.
Gameplay-wise, though? Anyone who had a PAL console will know how it is when you first see a game you love run at 60Hz. You feel betrayed. Racing games in PAL were a travesty. To this day I hate Mario Kart 64 mostly because it was so slow.


Skifi28 said:
Whoever was in charge of this decision should be forced to play 25fps games on modern TVs for the rest of their life.
Click to expand...
Those people don’t play games.
 
dotnotbot

dotnotbot

Member
K.N.W. said:
But playback of 25/50 FPS games with a 60 hz refresh rate means judder and improper framepacing! Again! After Playstation Classic, they are doing this again! I hope they find a way to force games at 60 hz, or they enable 50 hz output at least for legacy content on PS4 and PS5, just like how they support 24 hz for blu ray.


Where did you hear about PS2 emulation on PS5?? Never heard of it.
Click to expand...
K.N.W. said:
NVM, I forgot PS2 emulation just came to PS5. Anyway, the discussion you have linked is from a year ago.... How is that possible?? PS Classic have just arrived.
Click to expand...
PS2 emulated games can be played on PS5 from the launch, as part of the PS4 backwards compatibility. Games like GTA trilogy (if you bought them prior to delisting), Manhunt, Siren, Jak & Daxter etc Performance is probably the same as it is on PS4.
GTA Vice City and III stutter a lot but it's not necessarily due to 50->60 Hz conversion (Sony claims they fixed it in the latest patch, Digital Foundry never bothered to test them after). Those versions were just poorly optimized. Recently I tried emulating Vice City on PCSX2 and also got some sttuter while Vice City Stories felt mostly smooth.
 
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Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
50hz is fine in itself. Nothing wrong with it at all.

What was an issue was when games were authored at 60hz and then run at 50 without making proper timing adjustments.

PAL is also an encoding scheme, so many PAL titles offered both PAL50 and PAL60 output. This combined with the generally larger number of languages supported on SCEE releases is why they would be seen as preferable. SCEJ and SCEA releases are far less interchangeable in that respect because they were usually single language SKU's.

Not entirely surprising that Sony would want to avoid having to re-validate 3 builds of each title for emulation.
 
Fess

Fess

Member
I saw a Tekken 2 comparison. Sharper image but slow motion speed.
I’m nervous when thinking how they plan to fix this. It could be worse… 50fps PAL games forced onto a 60hz output creating terrible stutter at all times.
 
cireza

cireza

Member
NeoIkaruGAF said:
If this turns out to be true, the Nintendo fanboys will have a field day, lol.

I remember when Nintendo did this for the Wii VC, some people would actually shrug and say “this is how I played the games in my childhood, it’s no big deal”.

Yeah… no.

The first time I emulated a NES game I had played in PAL as a child, I immediately understood why this was a big deal.
Sure, the PAL colors and picture density (for lack of a better word) were always better than NTSC. I remember going to the US for the first time and noticing TV broadcasts looked somehow grainy and washed out compared to what we had in Europe. And the slower music in PAL games had its charm.
Gameplay-wise, though? Anyone who had a PAL console will know how it is when you first see a game you love run at 60Hz. You feel betrayed. Racing games in PAL were a travesty. To this day I hate Mario Kart 64 mostly because it was so slow.



Those people don’t play games.
Click to expand...
What you said is true most of the time, especially on PS1 where close to zero efforts were made towards PAL optimization.

However, when games were properly PAL optimized (really started with the 32 bits consoles), we had the best gaming conditions, especially in France where true RGB through SCART was the norm.
Otherwise, we could switch the console and play foreign games in 60Hz of course.
 
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