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Sony could be stopping/changing the PC port strategy?

Felessan

Member
it's not hard to build a PS5-beating PC for under $650. Using all new, regular price parts. Battlemage GPU is disruptive even at $300.
You know what? Not everyone is a nerd to build PC themselves. And pre-build PCs have a hefty margin over "parts price".
This is a difference between consoles (prebuild whole package, plug-and-play) and "forum enthusiast PC" where it advised to get a LEGO and go f*ck yourself building it (and then troubleshooting when something went wrong, like BIOS is not up-to-date to this CPU/memory etc).

Btw - PS5 beating PC @650 is still 200+$ over the price of PS5
 

HogIsland

Member
You know what? Not everyone is a nerd to build PC themselves. And pre-build PCs have a hefty margin over "parts price".
This is a difference between consoles (prebuild whole package, plug-and-play) and "forum enthusiast PC" where it advised to get a LEGO and go f*ck yourself building it (and then troubleshooting when something went wrong, like BIOS is not up-to-date to this CPU/memory etc).

Btw - PS5 beating PC @650 is still 200+$ over the price of PS5

I agree, the PC consoles that are going to move the needle won't be custom PCs or pre-built desktops. They'll be fully integrated, plug and play boards like you'd find in a laptop or a Playstation5. Similar to this, but with economy of scale:
auJ9gGmc5bZeLEMGbJuoMk.jpg


These will be even cheaper to produce than full sized, "lego" components.

Btw - $80/year to play videogames on the internet. $500 over the life of the system just for the privilege.
 
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PeteBull

Member
You know what? Not everyone is a nerd to build PC themselves. And pre-build PCs have a hefty margin over "parts price".
This is a difference between consoles (prebuild whole package, plug-and-play) and "forum enthusiast PC" where it advised to get a LEGO and go f*ck yourself building it (and then troubleshooting when something went wrong, like BIOS is not up-to-date to this CPU/memory etc).

Btw - PS5 beating PC @650 is still 200+$ over the price of PS5
U are absolutely right, both ps5 and ps5pr0 are really good value compared to equivalent strong pc, ofc over the span of whole gen(likely gonna be 8 whole years this time around) u can easily make up more cash from not paying for online and buying games on pc visibly cheaper, even if u dont wanna/cant build ur own pc, and dont wanna go pre-build just ask clerk in computer store to build it for u for dunno additional 100-200$ max, if not even less.
So options are there to play on pc even if u are tech-agnostic :D
 
it's not hard to build a PS5-beating PC for under $650. Using all new, regular price parts. Battlemage GPU is disruptive even at $300.

Yes, five years later.

And only if you're super-shopping for specific sales where quantities at low prices are extremely limited.

And in some cases probably only also looking for used/refurbished parts for certain components.

Basically it's not so easy to do especially if you're talking about more than a few hundreds or so folks wanting to do so at the same time.
 

Felessan

Member
I agree, the PC consoles that are going to move the needle won't be custom PCs or pre-built desktops. They'll be fully integrated, plug and play boards like you'd find in a laptop or a Playstation5. Similar to this, but with economy of scale:
These will be even cheaper to produce than full sized, "lego" components.

Btw - $80/year to play videogames on the internet. $500 over the life of the system just for the privilege.
Sure, now it's twice the price of PS5. Way to go to win consumer market.
The inherent problem of PC is that it's a platform of no one, so every one try to get their cut on sales, so pure black box will always be significantly more expensive than console. The latter a) sells box at very low margin, b) have a economy of scale unachievable to any enthusiast project on pc.

And stop with this blablabla $80/year online play, Fortnite/Warzone does not require it and so is any SP games, so mass market just fine with it. And anyway it's an optional running cost, not upfront cost and the latter largely affect decision.
 

HogIsland

Member
Sure, now it's twice the price of PS5. Way to go to win consumer market.
The inherent problem of PC is that it's a platform of no one, so every one try to get their cut on sales, so pure black box will always be significantly more expensive than console. The latter a) sells box at very low margin, b) have a economy of scale unachievable to any enthusiast project on pc.

This is a no-name company who maybe sells these in the 10s of thousands. They don't have economy of scale. No-name companies like GPD and Aya sold gaming handhelds for $1200 in 2018 before the Steam Deck disrupted the space at $400. Now ASUS and Lenovo are making a profit selling them at ~$500. The exact same thing is going to happen with mini PCs very soon.

And stop with this blablabla $80/year online play, Fortnite/Warzone does not require it and so is any SP games, so mass market just fine with it. And anyway it's an optional running cost, not upfront cost and the latter largely affect decision.

Pure cope. It destroys your whole shit.
 

Felessan

Member
This is a no-name company who maybe sells these in the 10s of thousands. They don't have economy of scale. No-name companies like GPD and Aya sold gaming handhelds for $1200 in 2018 before the Steam Deck disrupted the space at $400. Now ASUS and Lenovo are making a profit selling them at ~$500. The exact same thing is going to happen with mini PCs very soon.
It still sold fraction of what console sells and thus has worse economy

Pure cope. It destroys your whole shit.
Yeah, yeah... PC fanatics like to live in a bubble.
 
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LRKD

Member
Yes it was a retarded idea when Xbox did it, it's a retarded idea for PS as well.

If we want actual good consumer friendly moves, how about free online multiplayer on consoles? It's such an outdated and stupid idea. They can make the money back elsewhere, let players play online for free, and now more people will play online, and have the extra dough to spend on microtransactions/games.
 

Zathalus

Member
it's not hard to build a PS5-beating PC for under $650. Using all new, regular price parts. Battlemage GPU is disruptive even at $300.
How on earth would you do that? Assuming you use actually decent components and not a PSU that would explode if you glare at it. A B570 isn’t quite as powerful as a PS5 so you’d need a B580 at least, and that runs shit if you combine it with a bad processor. Throw in the RAM, storage, Wi-Fi, etc, besting a PS5 at $650 seems impossible. Best I can do is around $850 and that compromises the RAM to 16GB and doesn’t include any peripherals.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Yes it was a retarded idea when Xbox did it, it's a retarded idea for PS as well.

If we want actual good consumer friendly moves, how about free online multiplayer on consoles? It's such an outdated and stupid idea. They can make the money back elsewhere, let players play online for free, and now more people will play online, and have the extra dough to spend on microtransactions/games.

They are racking in enormous amount of profit because their console fans want to pay for it. It’s easy profit so why will they not continue to do so? That would be stupid.

They should be charging more on consoles actually.
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
Yes it was a retarded idea when Xbox did it, it's a retarded idea for PS as well.
True.
If we want actual good consumer friendly moves, how about free online multiplayer on consoles? It's such an outdated and stupid idea. They can make the money back elsewhere, let players play online for free, and now more people will play online, and have the extra dough to spend on microtransactions/games.
That'd take billions of guaranteed revenue out of their pockets. At least, the chances are higher that someone on a PS+ subscription retains that subscription as opposed to spending a variable amount on MTX in lieu of that 80 bucks a year.
 

DaciaJC

Gold Member
Why not just admit you want a monopoly, then? I thought gamers wanted competition, but apparently only PlayStation "needs" competition, apparently. And somehow apparently that competition "has" to be Xbox, conveniently enough.

But the moment people start saying "Why don't we support (x) over Steam?" or "who should make a handheld to compete against Nintendo" suddenly that whole competition crap goes out the window. Like people bend over backwards with excuses & contrivances to protect their preferred platforms from serious competition.

And what is your idea of competition, the same as that of Mr. Moneybags Sweeney?

Nobody on PC gets riled up if a game comes to other storefronts in addition to Steam. That's the beauty of the platform: choose what works best for you. If Sony wants to compete by offering their games on their own storefront alongside Steam with maybe some incentives like integrated trophy support or whatever, great, more power to them. Literally nobody here would be upset.

But it seems like what you want is Sony to make their games exclusive to their own storefront, which would indeed be an incredibly idiotic strategy and is quite rich coming from someone who accuses others of wanting a "monopoly."
 

Topher

Identifies as young
it's not hard to build a PS5-beating PC for under $650. Using all new, regular price parts. Battlemage GPU is disruptive even at $300.

Are there any stores where you can actually find a B580 for $300? Every price I'm seeing shows the price has been jacked up over $400 if it is available at all.
 
And what is your idea of competition, the same as that of Mr. Moneybags Sweeney?

Don't take it out on me; groups like the FTC agree that it's good competition too. Companies working with each other on common goals to outdo other companies in the same space always brings some benefit to customers, as long as it's all legal. And when it comes to 3P exclusives, that's generally the case.

Nobody on PC gets riled up if a game comes to other storefronts in addition to Steam. That's the beauty of the platform: choose what works best for you.

But they sure do seem to get riled up if other publishers want to link their services to games provided on Steam. Or specifically, when SIE does it :/

Also no reason to lump in PC gamers as a whole here; I specifically mentioned Steam, and there are Steam users like that. Not all of them, obviously, but there are some.

If Sony wants to compete by offering their games on their own storefront alongside Steam with maybe some incentives like integrated trophy support or whatever, great, more power to them. Literally nobody here would be upset.

But that doesn't allow them to be effectively competitive. They can't put ALL of their games on Steam and also push on features because at the end of the day, that still gets them nowhere. You're ignoring just how big a factor game libraries (especially exclusives) play here.

If you're new into that space and want to compete, you have to leverage both game exclusives and feature-match (or push better features). I don't see how SIE making their own 1P games exclusive to their own launcher on PC is somehow moneyhatting or anti-consumer. But, I know for a fact those terms are only mainly thrown around when SIE/PlayStation is involved, and I kinda blame people like Phil Spencer for that.

But it seems like what you want is Sony to make their games exclusive to their own storefront, which would indeed be an incredibly idiotic strategy and is quite rich coming from someone who accuses others of wanting a "monopoly."

Let's see what Valve games are exclusive to Steam, shall we?

Off the top of my head, there's Half-Life Alyx, DOTA 2, Counterstrike 2, Deadlock, and probably an assortment of smaller games I'm not mentioning. That doesn't even get into the 3P games which are exclusive to the platform on PC as well.

So can we stop pretending that Valve don't practice exclusivity with their games, or that Steam doesn't leverage having 3P exclusives to add value to their platform over competing platforms? The big difference with them is, Steam is SO big a platform they just naturally get a lot of defacto exclusives, and Valve don't need other platforms to make their games financially viable.

True.

That'd take billions of guaranteed revenue out of their pockets. At least, the chances are higher that someone on a PS+ subscription retains that subscription as opposed to spending a variable amount on MTX in lieu of that 80 bucks a year.

At some point I do think SIE will have to get rid of paid online, but most of that revenue can be retained by offering better QOL features & software suites that require a PS+ subscription to access.

So power users who want all the perks will get or retain subscriptions, and by then SIE should have enough growth & new revenue streams to more than offset any sub drop. But yeah, at some point in the next 5-8 years or so I think they'll have to definitely get rid of locking online behind a paywall. Same for MS and even Nintendo.

But again, that's an area where they can compete on features and make to where people will still want to keep their subs for online gaming, in addition to other perks/benefits.
 

DaciaJC

Gold Member
Don't take it out on me; groups like the FTC agree that it's good competition too. Companies working with each other on common goals to outdo other companies in the same space always brings some benefit to customers, as long as it's all legal. And when it comes to 3P exclusives, that's generally the case.

Riiight, the customers benefited so much when Metro: Exodus was removed from Steam due to a last-minute moneyhatting agreement. Absolutely laughable.

But they sure do seem to get riled up if other publishers want to link their services to games provided on Steam. Or specifically, when SIE does it :/

Forcing players to create an extra account and increase their risk of falling victim to database hacks for no value in return? Yeah, I can't imagine why anyone would get riled up about that. And don't kid yourself, players have voiced their displeasure at pointless secondary launchers and accounts since the day of GFWL, if not beyond. Your SIE isn't getting uniquely persecuted here.

Also no reason to lump in PC gamers as a whole here; I specifically mentioned Steam, and there are Steam users like that. Not all of them, obviously, but there are some.

In my 13 years on Steam, I've not come across a single person who was upset that a game was available on another PC storefront on top of Steam. You must have been incredibly unlucky to run into such sorts or are exaggerating.

But that doesn't allow them to be effectively competitive. They can't put ALL of their games on Steam and also push on features because at the end of the day, that still gets them nowhere. You're ignoring just how big a factor game libraries (especially exclusives) play here.

If you're new into that space and want to compete, you have to leverage both game exclusives and feature-match (or push better features). I don't see how SIE making their own 1P games exclusive to their own launcher on PC is somehow moneyhatting or anti-consumer. But, I know for a fact those terms are only mainly thrown around when SIE/PlayStation is involved, and I kinda blame people like Phil Spencer for that.

Tough. If they expect sympathy from consumers because they're twenty years late to the scene and are getting all precious over a 20-30 percent middleman tax, then they're absolute fools.

But I don't think Sony are fools. I think they're wise enough to learn from the lessons of EA and Activision or the abysmal failure of EGS and understand that making games exclusive to their launcher would significantly hinder, if not be outright ruinous towards their efforts on PC.

Let's see what Valve games are exclusive to Steam, shall we?

Off the top of my head, there's Half-Life Alyx, DOTA 2, Counterstrike 2, Deadlock, and probably an assortment of smaller games I'm not mentioning.

I would be delighted to see Valve's games available on other platforms. I don't think any reasonable soul would take issue with the Half-Life series coming to GOG, for example.

That doesn't even get into the 3P games which are exclusive to the platform on PC as well.

So can we stop pretending that Valve don't practice exclusivity with their games, or that Steam doesn't leverage having 3P exclusives to add value to their platform over competing platforms? The big difference with them is, Steam is SO big a platform they just naturally get a lot of defacto exclusives, and Valve don't need other platforms to make their games financially viable.

Valve has never paid a third-party for platform exclusivity. That's entirely on the publishers. Valve instead adds value to their platform by continually improving their client's functionality far beyond any other launcher. In short, they offer a superior end-user experience: that's competition.
 
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Riiight, the customers benefited so much when Metro: Exodus was removed from Steam due to a last-minute moneyhatting agreement. Absolutely laughable.

So you're gonna blame the company who offered that agreement, or the developers who voluntarily accepted that agreement instead? Whose really "at fault" there?

Forcing players to create an extra account and increase their risk of falling victim to database hacks for no value in return? Yeah, I can't imagine why anyone would get riled up about that. And don't kid yourself, players have voiced their displeasure at pointless secondary launchers and accounts since the day of GFWL, if not beyond. Your SIE isn't getting uniquely persecuted here.

Just people people have complained about secondary accounts in the past doesn't mean them doing it now is the exact same, or even justified. With the PSN situation, yes I think SIE forcing it for regions where PSN wasn't even available was a stupid idea. I think them removing games from those regions instead of bringing PSN to them is a stupid idea.

That said, the FUD and narratives formed around PSN in particular by many PC players was unusual, and IMO seemed agenda-driven. SIE capitulating to them with the HD2 stuff they way they did made them look pretty weak IMO, but I guess that got them some longer-term goodwill hence HD2 still dominating Steam sales charts. I think your concern about database breaches is exaggerated, because whether it's one login or seven, once you put that info out there in ANY company's hands, you are always at some small risk.

You know these publishers want player metrics so they can provide to shareholders and bolster their monetization efforts. They are going to find a way to do this, regardless if people want them to or not. Given some of the other alternatives, and understanding how the real world functions, you'd think some of these PC gamers on places like Steam would eventually shut up about multiple launchers. It's just a reality these publishers need, after all it's a business.

In my 13 years on Steam, I've not come across a single person who was upset that a game was available on another PC storefront on top of Steam. You must have been incredibly unlucky to run into such sorts or are exaggerating.

That's not what I'm saying. My point is, when many people keep saying "I just want them on PC", they are basically just saying "I want them on Steam" because that is the storefront of choice for people who share those sentiments. Because the moment some of them see a game get a PC announcement, but not for Steam, these same people start saying things like the game's destined to fail, it needs a Steam version ASAP, etc.

As a separate observation, those things may be true. However, it also feels like those people are just wanting to wish and will it into reality, just wanting the game to get a Steam release so they can get it there. It's very persistent when certain games get EGS timed exclusivity (and so what if it's about exclusivity? If people really felt about it they'd be more vocal about Steam-exclusive games going to other storefronts).

Tough. If they expect sympathy from consumers because they're twenty years late to the scene and are getting all precious over a 20-30 percent middleman tax, then they're absolute fools.

Okay. And, they have the choice of choosing not to cater to that market. Considering where most multiplats are still getting the lion's share of their sales and money, they wouldn't be mistaken in ignoring catering to said market.

But I don't think Sony are fools. I think they're wise enough to learn from the lessons of EA and Activision or the abysmal failure of EGS and understand that making games exclusive to their launcher would significantly hinder, if not be outright ruinous towards their efforts on PC.

The idea itself is not flawed because, again, Steam has exclusives. People don't seem to have a problem with that (nor should they IMO). The issue is always in the execution; this idea that exclusives are fundamentally bad only exists (fundamentally) among diehard fanboys of two specific platforms: Xbox and Steam.

The former, because of everything happening with their console and because Phil Spencer's laid the groundwork for that narrative to take hold. The latter, because they really just want every other console's exclusives to be on Steam Day 1 so they don't need a console anymore. Neither of these groups are legitimate, and if you're a corporation in the games business where you know firsthand the benefits of exclusivity, well, you can safely ignore their complaints.

I would be delighted to see Valve's games available on other platforms. I don't think any reasonable soul would take issue with the Half-Life series coming to GOG, for example.

Cool. But where are the other Steam fanatics asking for this to happen? The games media, where are they asking and pressing about it? Influencers? You see where I'm going with this?...

Valve has never paid a third-party for platform exclusivity. That's entirely on the publishers. Valve instead adds value to their platform by continually improving their client's functionality far beyond any other launcher. In short, they offer a superior end-user experience: that's competition.

You're repeating basically what I already said, about them providing features and QOL that appeal to customers. But I never said Valve paid for 3P exclusives; I said they basically enjoy the privilege of defacto 3P exclusives due to the size of their platform on Steam. It's not all this dissimilar to what we saw with the PS2 generations ago, especially past 2002.

I also never said Valve having those defacto 3P exclusives was a bad thing; in fact it's something that also adds value to the Steam platform because for all the features you can have, that doesn't mean anything if you don't have content to use those features. Which is why your idea of competing solely on features, especially for a new storefront, is completely unrealistic. You need both matching/superior features AND exclusive games to make any encroachments on a super-dominant platform like Steam.

We have simply too many examples through gaming and entertainment history to prove that to be true. What helped systems like the Genesis against Nintendo? Great system hardware/features AND exclusives like Sonic. What about 360 against PlayStation? Again, great features, but ALSO exclusives like Gears of War, Halo 3, and Mass Effect. How about the PS3 regaining momentum against 360? Drastically improved features, and once again, also exclusive hits like TLOU, Uncharted 2 & 3, GT5 etc.

We don't even have to just look at gaming; how do you think services like HBO MAX and Disney+ have been able to gain market share while competing against entrenched platforms like Netflix? You think they've done that with just better UI & features? No! They've also been pushing tons of exclusive content, whether that be The Penguin, TLOU, WandaVision or Loki. This is the reality: if you're in an entertainment space, you can't half-ass and compete against entrenched major market leaders with just features or just exclusives (well, maybe if you were a Nintendo-like you could get away with just exclusives but I doubt it).

You need both, simple as that.

^^ Spot on.

If Sony cancelled the PC ports the shareholders would be pissed.

Uh, shareholders have literally expressed worry that the PC ports are negatively impacting the console.
 
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BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Yeah guys, remember all the epic meltdowns when Bg3 got ported to consoles and GOG? Or when Civ VII went to Switch day 1?

Oh right, there were absolutely zero. Only boomer console warriors from a bygone era such as thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best and Bryank75 Bryank75 get so worked up exclusives. Sony porting their games legitimately had a huge impact on their psyche.

As Sony’s first party has proven to be largely unpopular on PC, thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best has advocated for games like Monster Hunter, Persona, etc to go back to being exclusive to Ps. Why you ask? Who the fuck knows. He holds a bizarre grudge against Steam and Valve for reasons beyond logic. Often praising the Steam features, and lamenting that Sony won’t add these things to PS.

Very strange poster that told me he will go back and forth from talking from his own POV and that of an employee of Sony who wants the best for Sony’s business. But will also tell you he’s not cheerleading fanboy. He tries to hide these bizarre positions by posting insanely verbose walls of text and sneaking in these points.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Yeah guys, remember all the epic meltdowns when Bg3 got ported to consoles and GOG? Or when Civ VII went to Switch day 1?

Oh right, there were absolutely zero. Only boomer console warriors from a bygone era such as thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best and Bryank75 Bryank75 get so worked up exclusives. Sony porting their games legitimately had a huge impact on their psyche.

As Sony’s first party has proven to be largely unpopular on PC, thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best has advocated for games like Monster Hunter, Persona, etc to go back to being exclusive to Ps. Why you ask? Who the fuck knows. He holds a bizarre grudge against Steam and Valve for reasons beyond logic. Often praising the Steam features, and lamenting that Sony won’t add these things to PS.

Very strange poster that told me he will go back and forth from talking from his own POV and that of an employee of Sony who wants the best for Sony’s business. But will also tell you he’s not cheerleading fanboy. He tries to hide these bizarre positions by posting insanely verbose walls of text and sneaking in these points.

I think they are just weirdos. Those companies ain't going back, after enjoying huge successes on PC now. More than half of Capcom's sales are on PC now, so suggesting Capcom to go back to exclusivity is just some desperation.
 
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FewRope

Member
Yeah guys, remember all the epic meltdowns when Bg3 got ported to consoles and GOG? Or when Civ VII went to Switch day 1?

Oh right, there were absolutely zero. Only boomer console warriors from a bygone era such as thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best and Bryank75 Bryank75 get so worked up exclusives. Sony porting their games legitimately had a huge impact on their psyche.

As Sony’s first party has proven to be largely unpopular on PC, thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best has advocated for games like Monster Hunter, Persona, etc to go back to being exclusive to Ps. Why you ask? Who the fuck knows. He holds a bizarre grudge against Steam and Valve for reasons beyond logic. Often praising the Steam features, and lamenting that Sony won’t add these things to PS.

Very strange poster that told me he will go back and forth from talking from his own POV and that of an employee of Sony who wants the best for Sony’s business. But will also tell you he’s not cheerleading fanboy. He tries to hide these bizarre positions by posting insanely verbose walls of text and sneaking in these points.
I dont understand the fear they have to let people play games like Rise of the Ronin outside PS5, at least the IQ will be good this time lol
 
Sony still hasn't allowed us the privilege of being able to play Gravity Rush 2, Bloodborne and Shadow of the Colossus remake on a PC. These are the only PS exclusives from last gen that I want running on better hardware. On another note, Playstation California is very uninteresting and bland. Steam and Nintendo is definitely where it's at.
 

DaciaJC

Gold Member
So you're gonna blame the company who offered that agreement, or the developers who voluntarily accepted that agreement instead? Whose really "at fault" there?

Both, obviously. Neither Satan nor sinner are blameless when temptation is acted upon.

Just people people have complained about secondary accounts in the past doesn't mean them doing it now is the exact same, or even justified. With the PSN situation, yes I think SIE forcing it for regions where PSN wasn't even available was a stupid idea. I think them removing games from those regions instead of bringing PSN to them is a stupid idea.

That said, the FUD and narratives formed around PSN in particular by many PC players was unusual, and IMO seemed agenda-driven. SIE capitulating to them with the HD2 stuff they way they did made them look pretty weak IMO, but I guess that got them some longer-term goodwill hence HD2 still dominating Steam sales charts. I think your concern about database breaches is exaggerated, because whether it's one login or seven, once you put that info out there in ANY company's hands, you are always at some small risk.

You know these publishers want player metrics so they can provide to shareholders and bolster their monetization efforts. They are going to find a way to do this, regardless if people want them to or not. Given some of the other alternatives, and understanding how the real world functions, you'd think some of these PC gamers on places like Steam would eventually shut up about multiple launchers. It's just a reality these publishers need, after all it's a business.

It's added risk and added inconvenience for no or negligible benefit to the player. Why would or should we shut up about it? Long have PC gamers taken a stand against various manifestations of corporate bullshit. Console gamers have to pay an extra fee just to enable online functionality for games they've bought because that's the "reality of business" I guess. PC gamers are under no such yoke. Sounds like a pretty good alternative to me.

That's not what I'm saying. My point is, when many people keep saying "I just want them on PC", they are basically just saying "I want them on Steam" because that is the storefront of choice for people who share those sentiments. Because the moment some of them see a game get a PC announcement, but not for Steam, these same people start saying things like the game's destined to fail, it needs a Steam version ASAP, etc.

As a separate observation, those things may be true. However, it also feels like those people are just wanting to wish and will it into reality, just wanting the game to get a Steam release so they can get it there. It's very persistent when certain games get EGS timed exclusivity (and so what if it's about exclusivity? If people really felt about it they'd be more vocal about Steam-exclusive games going to other storefronts).

Many people feel that Steam is practically a platform unto itself. I myself only purchase PC games on Steam now, no other launcher has the functionality (particularly playtime tracking, screenshot/video recording, and controller input integration) that I value so greatly. Steam is the most popular launcher on PC, many people use solely Steam because of its numerous features -- of course people want to see games come to their preferred launcher/platform. The key point is that no one (or exceptionally few people) on Steam would take issue with games simultaneously coming to other storefronts; this stands in stark contrast to the wider console gaming community, which seems to have an unfortunately large subset of suspiciously adult-sized children that wail and gnash their teeth whenever there is a news of a former exclusive going multiplat.

Okay. And, they have the choice of choosing not to cater to that market. Considering where most multiplats are still getting the lion's share of their sales and money, they wouldn't be mistaken in ignoring catering to said market.

The Insomniac leaks indicate that Sony's PC ports by and large have enormously high profit margins with ROI as high as 800-900 percent. Especially in this day and age following the disastrous failure of Concord and cancellation of other projects, it would be rather foolish, if not fiduciarily irresponsible, to not cater to the PC market when the investment is virtually risk-free and guaranteed to get good returns if appropriately handled.

The idea itself is not flawed because, again, Steam has exclusives. People don't seem to have a problem with that (nor should they IMO). The issue is always in the execution; this idea that exclusives are fundamentally bad only exists (fundamentally) among diehard fanboys of two specific platforms: Xbox and Steam.

The former, because of everything happening with their console and because Phil Spencer's laid the groundwork for that narrative to take hold. The latter, because they really just want every other console's exclusives to be on Steam Day 1 so they don't need a console anymore. Neither of these groups are legitimate, and if you're a corporation in the games business where you know firsthand the benefits of exclusivity, well, you can safely ignore their complaints.

I would wager that the majority of these so-called diehard Steam fanboys don't actually own consoles, therefore the premise that they want exclusivity struck down because it will save them a few hundred dollars every generation is a false start. There are more than enough games to capture anyone's interest on PC, the full catalogue isn't lacking for quantity or quality in the absence of console titles. I think rather they recognize exclusivity provides no inherent value for the consumer. What benefit does it give a Playstation owner that Bloodborne isn't available on PC, or to a Steam user that Counter-Strike isn't supported on console, hmm? Childish bragging rights, nothing more. Exclusivity is indeed fundamentally "bad" in the sense that it artificially limits a game's potential audience when hardware capability is a non-factor.

Cool. But where are the other Steam fanatics asking for this to happen? The games media, where are they asking and pressing about it? Influencers? You see where I'm going with this?...

People's time and energy are limited, and most have little enough left of either to spend campaigning on behalf of other communities. If GOG or EGS enthusiasts or even console players want to advocate for Steam titles to come to their preferred storefront, I say more power to them and genuinely wish them good luck, and I say with confidence that the great majority of PC players would feel similarly. Again, marked difference to the tribalistic attitude that seems to grip many a console gamer when the topic of exclusive vs multiplatform comes up.

You're repeating basically what I already said, about them providing features and QOL that appeal to customers. But I never said Valve paid for 3P exclusives; I said they basically enjoy the privilege of defacto 3P exclusives due to the size of their platform on Steam. It's not all this dissimilar to what we saw with the PS2 generations ago, especially past 2002.

I also never said Valve having those defacto 3P exclusives was a bad thing; in fact it's something that also adds value to the Steam platform because for all the features you can have, that doesn't mean anything if you don't have content to use those features. Which is why your idea of competing solely on features, especially for a new storefront, is completely unrealistic. You need both matching/superior features AND exclusive games to make any encroachments on a super-dominant platform like Steam.

We have simply too many examples through gaming and entertainment history to prove that to be true. What helped systems like the Genesis against Nintendo? Great system hardware/features AND exclusives like Sonic. What about 360 against PlayStation? Again, great features, but ALSO exclusives like Gears of War, Halo 3, and Mass Effect. How about the PS3 regaining momentum against 360? Drastically improved features, and once again, also exclusive hits like TLOU, Uncharted 2 & 3, GT5 etc.

We don't even have to just look at gaming; how do you think services like HBO MAX and Disney+ have been able to gain market share while competing against entrenched platforms like Netflix? You think they've done that with just better UI & features? No! They've also been pushing tons of exclusive content, whether that be The Penguin, TLOU, WandaVision or Loki. This is the reality: if you're in an entertainment space, you can't half-ass and compete against entrenched major market leaders with just features or just exclusives (well, maybe if you were a Nintendo-like you could get away with just exclusives but I doubt it).

You need both, simple as that.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your intention, but you seem convinced that Sony needs a proprietary launcher with which to compete against Steam in order to succeed on PC when that is patently not true. Would exclusivity help attract mindshare to a Sony launcher? Likely yes. Would the outcome be greater total net income? Almost certainly no, EGS is ample proof of that. It's crude math, but 70 percent of something is greater than 100 percent of nothing. As pointed out before, Sony's PC ports thus far have done fairly well for themselves given that they cost a pittance. The next step to maximizing profits is not clumsily forcing the use of their launcher but instead pushing for day-and-date releases with console. The PC launch would benefit tremendously from the unified marketing campaign, and the number of PC players enticed to buy a full-priced game at launch would far outstrip the number of Playstation players who completely discard the console ecosystem and move to PC.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
Would exclusivity help attract mindshare to a Sony launcher? Likely yes. Would the outcome be greater total net income? Almost certainly no, EGS is ample proof of that. It's crude math, but 70 percent of something is greater than 100 percent of nothing. As pointed out before, Sony's PC ports thus far have done fairly well for themselves given that they cost a pittance. The next step to maximizing profits is not clumsily forcing the use of their launcher but instead pushing for day-and-date releases with console

The way to maximize this concept is Day and Date on PS launcher only

Steam release 2 years later

You get the benefit of unified marketing, while enticing 100% of sales
 

HogIsland

Member
The way to maximize this concept is Day and Date on PS launcher only

Steam release 2 years later

You get the benefit of unified marketing, while enticing 100% of sales
this would doom the concept rather than maximize it, which is obvious.

consequently, it would also doom sony first party single player game development.
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
didn`t work for any other launcher so far. They´re all dying and returning to steam.

Sony can offer larger library of games, perks, and third party games

Doesn’t matter if it sells a ton day one at first, it’s a slow drip, they can get the steam user holdouts later. There’s no rush
 
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Midn1ght

Member
The way to maximize this concept is Day and Date on PS launcher only

Steam release 2 years later

You get the benefit of unified marketing, while enticing 100% of sales
What's stopping them from selling Steam Keys on their own store and keeping 100% of the profit?

From my understanding, Valve is super flexible, you can generate Steam Keys, sell them on your own site and keep 100% of the sale.
The only rule is that you offer the same price and discount on Steam and even there, the wording is purposefully flexible:

"if you're selling Steam keys elsewhere, you need to be treating your product on Steam itself generally equivalently"

I get that your point is for Sony to get every day one purchase for themself but let's be honest, if most people don't bother buying on Epic when they have time exclusivity and wait sometimes years for the Steam launch, I don't see why it would be any different for Sony's games.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
What's stopping them from selling Steam Keys on their own store and keeping 100% of the profit?

From my understanding, Valve is super flexible, you can generate Steam Keys, sell them on your own site and keep 100% of the sale.
The only rule is that you offer the same price and discount on Steam and even there, the wording is purposefully flexible:

"if you're selling Steam keys elsewhere, you need to be treating your product on Steam itself generally equivalently"

I get that your point is for Sony to get every day one purchase for themself but let's be honest, if most people don't bother buying on Epic when they have time exclusivity and wait sometimes years for the Steam launch, I don't see why it would be any different for Sony's games.

That’s a good point, I didn’t think of that. Maybe they should try that loophole
 

HogIsland

Member
What's stopping them from selling Steam Keys on their own store and keeping 100% of the profit?

From my understanding, Valve is super flexible, you can generate Steam Keys, sell them on your own site and keep 100% of the sale.
The only rule is that you offer the same price and discount on Steam and even there, the wording is purposefully flexible:

"if you're selling Steam keys elsewhere, you need to be treating your product on Steam itself generally equivalently"

I get that your point is for Sony to get every day one purchase for themself but let's be honest, if most people don't bother buying on Epic when they have time exclusivity and wait sometimes years for the Steam launch, I don't see why it would be any different for Sony's games.
Games get up to 5,000 keys that can be redistributed off of Steam. Keys beyond that have to be requested/approved. You can't base a business off of reselling Steam keys. Basing a Playstation PC store off of reselling Steam keys would not work:
If you request an extreme number of keys and you are not offering Steam customers a comparable deal, or if your sole business is selling Steam Keys and not offering value to Steam customers, your request may be denied and you may lose the privilege to request keys.



Playstation must get to high quality, day 1 Steam versions of their games to maximize their return on investment. It's much cheaper and better practice to maintain a PC port concurrent with the game's development rather than porting it after the whole thing is complete. The marketing spend at launch drives the biggest sales peak for most games. 1+ year later ports don't get anywhere near the same level of promotion, which is a huge waste of money.
 
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Although I imagine many of you have said this already, I'll say it again.

If the strategy changes then it will likely be to launch games on PC closer to the PS5 release or even the same date. With game development budgets being as high as they are, they will want to recoup as much of those costs as possible and as quickly as they can.

Not that it's a real issue for them since console prices are lower than buying PC equivalents (that are worth buying anyway), but one thing Sony will likely be thinking about is how do they retain hardware sales and stop their customers migrating to PC gaming only if they release day on date or close to PS5 release.

Like I said, my second point is unlikely to be a big risk for them since consoles are completely different to PC and some people prefer that kind of access to games.
 

YeulEmeralda

Linux User
I am only interested in a few Sony single player games. I do not give a shit about their services. Also have a backlog from here to Tokyo so I usually pick them up at sale.
 

Midn1ght

Member
That’s a good point, I didn’t think of that. Maybe they should try that loophole
Yes and the way they could attract people on their own store would be to have your own psn profile on there with your trophy list, psn friends, maybe some goodies when you buy directly on their store, etc...
They could also run their own sale/discount, events, etc...

I tell you what, nobody care who gets the money, Valve or Sony, if you feel like buying a Steam key for a game and a store has a great discount or a bundle offer, they'll buy it there.

Games get up to 5,000 keys that can be redistributed off of Steam. Keys beyond that have to be requested/approved. You can't base a business off of reselling Steam keys. Basing a Playstation PC store off of reselling Steam keys would not work.
Good point but I have no doubt that Sony could get a large amount of keys as long as the price at launch is the same on their store and on steam.
Most people would buy on Steam day 1 anyway so it's not like they would need millions of them.
 
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