Support NeoGAF

[Ironman_Bad]

At some point there will be mostly 3 gaming ecosystems : Steam (PC / Portable PCs), Nintendo (tablets) and iPhone / Android (Smartphones).

Microsoft and Sony clearly don't want to make their own gaming devices... Steam will devore them.

 

[ArtHands]

It doesn’t matter in the end when PC becomes the only option.

 

[xanaum]

From a product and business perspective, Sony should only bring multiplayer games like Helldivers 2 to PC. I don’t think the small number of sales on PC is worth more than keeping the PlayStation strong with exclusives. Nintendo is solid and confident sticking to that strategy.

 

[HogIsland]

From a product and business perspective, Sony should only bring multiplayer games like Helldivers 2 to PC. I don’t think the small number of sales on PC is worth more than keeping the PlayStation strong with exclusives. Nintendo is solid and confident sticking to that strategy.

Nintendo has never made a project anywhere close to the scale of The Last of Us Part 2, which is a last-gen game. You can say you don't care about production scale, which is fine, but if Playstation is going to keep pushing the envelope like they have done up to this point, they need PC sales.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

It sold so well that Square PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED they will no longer be accepting moneyhats

I think they’re gonna find out the hard way that they are likely getting less money not accepting a money hat from Sony than trying to extract revenue from the Xbox crowd.

SE is in a world of hurt if they need revenue from Xbox.

 

[ArtHands]

From a product and business perspective, Sony should only bring multiplayer games like Helldivers 2 to PC. I don’t think the small number of sales on PC is worth more than keeping the PlayStation strong with exclusives. Nintendo is solid and confident sticking to that strategy.

Considering they are tripping over themselves with the rapid PC releases in the past years, perhaps the numbers of sales on PC isn’t small at all then.

 

[Ironman_Bad]

It doesn’t matter in the end when PC becomes the only option.

When that end happens it'll be the end of gaming as you know it unless you love cheap mobile games

 

[ArtHands]

I think they’re gonna find out the hard way that they are likely getting less money not accepting a money hat from Sony than trying to extract revenue from the Xbox crowd.

SE is in a world of hurt if they need revenue from Xbox.

Well, they are going multi-platforms now, is the result of them finding out the hard way that they are getting less money from being exclusive with Sony PS5 in the first place

 

[ArtHands]

When that end happens it'll be the end of gaming as you know it unless you love cheap mobile games

that will actually elevate the gaming industry, as console fanboys drop out of the industry, while the console players experience for the first time the benefits of PC gaming.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

absolutely correct.

it could be that Sony is actually satisfied by these numbers, since it's practically free money and PC ports are greenlit via email. but if sony wants to maximize PC sales, the answer is day 1 releases on steam. any attempt to "support" PC off of steam is a wasted effort.

Why not just admit you want a monopoly, then? I thought gamers wanted competition, but apparently only PlayStation "needs" competition, apparently. And somehow apparently that competition "has" to be Xbox, conveniently enough.

But the moment people start saying "Why don't we support (x) over Steam?" or "who should make a handheld to compete against Nintendo" suddenly that whole competition crap goes out the window. Like people bend over backwards with excuses & contrivances to protect their preferred platforms from serious competition.

Jesus Christ, people, get a grip.
Some of these games are barely selling anything ON STEAM and the "sensible solution" some of you keep coming up with is "Do your own store!".

I'm going out of my way to guess that 99% of the people making this suggestion DO NOT play regularly games on PC, otherwise they would understand that in the current climate coming out with "another front store" is a suicide.
It will mean selling virtually NOTHING.

They need to find a way to make their current pipeline work better, not worse.

Well apparently your idea of SIE improving their pipeline would just crater interest in the console among parts of the hardcore who already use PC as a side platform to some degree, and would guarantee a slow start for PS6 sales.

I think SIE are finally starting to realize these things too, hence the change in strategy. They only need most of their big-hitting GAAS on PC if we're being perfectly honest. Ultimately they'd want to convert some of them to PS owners (either primary or as a 2nd platform), and considering a lot of growth in PC gaming has come from once-console owners who switched over to PC for any number or reasons, safe to say they can easily switch back if the value proposition is strong enough.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Well, they are going multi-platforms now, is the result of them finding out the hard way that they are getting less money from being exclusive with Sony PS5 in the first place

If you count GAAS I'm sure that is true, but if you look at the shitty performance of their SP games on PC, they aren't worth the port.

There is also a hidden cost. If Sony release all their games on PC, as YOU yourself said eventually there will only be one option and Sony won't be it.

Sony will pull back their SP games from PC. They went down this path when they thought their future would be gaas and that you the PC gamer would pick up the funding they lost from the fans. We have spoken clearly with our wallets and so have you. They were wrong. Sony will capitulate to its userbase or you will be getting your all PC future sooner than you expected. The reality is that short single player AAA full priced games that don't launch day and date on PC will never sell well and will eventually disincentive purchase of Playstation products once gaming level PCs are ubiquitous.

If I know it Sony knows it and their SP games released on PC so far have only reinforced what I've said. They can just keep their dumb course or do a small course correction and lose the PC Spider-Man 2 revenue but keep their console business.

It's called the short cheese. Sony has been chasing the short cheese hoping to get rich quick with their gaas and leave SP and their old fans in the dust. They got proper fucked with Concord and they are now crawling back. I'll give you this, their management has sucked lately but I can't imagine the proper move isn't crystal clear at this point. Follow Nintendo, your better.

 

[HogIsland]

Why not just admit you want a monopoly, then? I thought gamers wanted competition, but apparently only PlayStation "needs" competition, apparently. And somehow apparently that competition "has" to be Xbox, conveniently enough.

But the moment people start saying "Why don't we support (x) over Steam?" or "who should make a handheld to compete against Nintendo" suddenly that whole competition crap goes out the window. Like people bend over backwards with excuses & contrivances to protect their preferred platforms from serious competition.

PC players have seen this before. If Playstation wants to develop their own versions of the full range of features offered by Steam plus better features, that is competition, and i'm interested. If Playstation is just going to make a dogshit store and bare minimum launcher and make their games exclusive to that, then their games don't exist to me.

 

[wolffy66]

If Sony is smart, they will return to exclusivity again.
With Xbox gone, it'll be much more important.

How so? With no competition, they might as well release every game, day one on PC. It wouldn't hurt PS consoles one bit.

 

[Ebrietas]

The idea is actually very simple for Sony with regards to non-PS platforms:

GAAS should be on every relevant platform that can run it. Not just PC, but also rival consoles and mobile. These games are all about monetizing as many users as possible, which is why they are often F2P. There is actually no logical reason Helldivers is on PC but not on Xbox.
Everything else should be 100% exclusive to their console and there shouldn't be any question about it. They don't want to get in a situation where people hold off on buying the console and game because they are anticipating a PC port.

People need to let go of this fantasy that Sony can expand into PC with their own store hosting first and third party content. Not even MS is able to do that so far, and they own the actual platform. The fact that they removed the PSN requirement from their games on Steam should tell you they are becoming less ambitious, not more, on that front.

 

[Ebrietas]

How so? With no competition, they might as well release every game, day one on PC. It wouldn't hurt PS consoles one bit.

PC is the main competition now, and much more than Xbox has been since the 360 days.
Imagine if Sony were porting Uncharted, Gran Turismo, etc. to 360 after a year or two selling on PS3, thinking they were "expanding to a new audience" and growing their business. That would be pretty damn stupid and would have killed any chance of making the comeback they did. But that is exactly what they are doing right now, handing their best cards to the competition all for some chump change in return.

 

[SweetTooth]

The idea is actually very simple for Sony with regards to non-PS platforms:

GAAS should be on every relevant platform that can run it. Not just PC, but also rival consoles and mobile. These games are all about monetizing as many users as possible, which is why they are often F2P. There is no logical reason Helldivers shouldn't be on Xbox.
Everything else should be 100% exclusive to their console and there shouldn't be any question about it. They don't want to get in a situation where people hold off on buying the console and game because they are anticipating a PC port.

People need to let go of this fantasy that Sony can expand into PC with their own store hosting first and third party content. Not even MS is able to do that so far, and they own the actual platform. The fact that they removed the PSN requirement from their games on Steam should tell you they are becoming less ambitious, not more, on that front.

I agree completely with you.

 

[Guilty_AI]

PC players have seen this before. If Playstation wants to develop their own versions of the full range of features offered by Steam plus better features, that is competition, and i'm interested. If Playstation is just going to make a dogshit store and bare minimum launcher and make their games exclusive to that, then their games don't exist to me.

Tbf i'm 100% supportive of alternative stores as long as they're just stores and not launchers.

Like, wanna distribute your game off-steam for whatever reason? Fine, but just give me a installer or the game files, don't force on me some shitty middleware/mandatory log-in screen just to play that game alone.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

How so? With no competition, they might as well release every game, day one on PC. It wouldn't hurt PS consoles one bit.

Because their main goal is getting people onto Playstation consoles.

Now the threshold to get a PS5 alongside a PC is lower, as you only have one 'higher end' console to choose from, which also plays Xbox games.

It isn't exactly rocket-science.

 

[HogIsland]

Tbf i'm 100% supportive of alternative stores as long as they're just stores and not launchers.

Like, wanna distribute your game off-steam for whatever reason? Fine, but just give me a installer or the game files, don't force on me some shitty middleware/mandatory log-in screen just to play that game alone.

Yeah, regular ass installer EXE or ISO is underappreciated. If the game can self-update within its own code, that's great.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

PC players have seen this before. If Playstation wants to develop their own versions of the full range of features offered by Steam plus better features, that is competition, and i'm interested. If Playstation is just going to make a dogshit store and bare minimum launcher and make their games exclusive to that, then their games don't exist to me.

But Steam did not get its market share purely off its features. It became THE defacto storefront for PC gaming during the '00s and 2010s, which means they also accrued a ton of defacto exclusives. To try underplaying Steam's exclusives library as part of the reason they've remained such a major platform to this day is just silly and short-sighted.

And, due to that, any competing storefront/launcher would have to leverage software exclusivity to some degree in order to compete, alongside matching/beating Steam on features. So your idea of competition is halfway there, you're just (maybe conveniently?) ignoring the other component that matters: exclusives.

 

[wolffy66]

Because their main goal is getting people onto Playstation consoles.

Now the threshold to get a PS5 alongside a PC is lower, as you only have one 'higher end' console to choose from, which also plays Xbox games.

It isn't exactly rocket-science.

I wouldn't really consider a PC a direct competitor to a console. Neither does Sony or they wouldn't put their games there.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

PC becomes the only option.

PC will never become the Only Option

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I wouldn't really consider a PC a direct competitor to a console. Neither does Sony

...so far

 

[lh032]

that will actually elevate the gaming industry, as console fanboys drop out of the industry, while the console players experience for the first time the benefits of PC gaming.

im a PC gamer long ago (2070super GPU owner) last time, now im a hardcore console player.

if you think PC gaming will be getting better if console is out of the gaming market, you are dead wrong.

every single corporation out there is going to squeeze PC gaming to death and PC game optimization and brute forcing of hardware will remain the same, i can assure you haha. Lets not forget about the ridiculous PC hardware pricing.

 

[Gamerguy84]

From a product and business perspective, Sony should only bring multiplayer games like Helldivers 2 to PC. I don’t think the small number of sales on PC is worth more than keeping the PlayStation strong with exclusives. Nintendo is solid and confident sticking to that strategy.

Exactly this. Just be done with the single player. Too much time and effort for little return.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

Exactly this. Just be done with the single player. Too much time and effort for little return.

Clearly Sony disagrees since they're showing no signs of slowing down. They just need to do a better job with the ports and ideally release them sooner to capitalize on the new game hype.

 

[GigaBowser]

Nintendo has never made a project anywhere close to the scale of The Last of Us Part 2, which is a last-gen game. You can say you don't care about production scale, which is fine, but if Playstation is going to keep pushing the envelope like they have done up to this point, they need PC sales.

TOTK gameplays scale derstoys read my OT pal

 

[HogIsland]

 

[PurePlatinum]

I think the PC ports are worth doing for games like Helldivers, and maybe other multiplayer games. I think it makes a lot less sense for the major AAA single-player games and sort of devalues the consoles...especially in an era where their 1st party output is so bad already.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Why not just admit you want a monopoly, then? I thought gamers wanted competition, but apparently only PlayStation "needs" competition, apparently. And somehow apparently that competition "has" to be Xbox, conveniently enough.

But the moment people start saying "Why don't we support (x) over Steam?" or "who should make a handheld to compete against Nintendo" suddenly that whole competition crap goes out the window. Like people bend over backwards with excuses & contrivances to protect their preferred platforms from serious competition.



Well apparently your idea of SIE improving their pipeline would just crater interest in the console among parts of the hardcore who already use PC as a side platform to some degree, and would guarantee a slow start for PS6 sales.

I think SIE are finally starting to realize these things too, hence the change in strategy. They only need most of their big-hitting GAAS on PC if we're being perfectly honest. Ultimately they'd want to convert some of them to PS owners (either primary or as a 2nd platform), and considering a lot of growth in PC gaming has come from once-console owners who switched over to PC for any number or reasons, safe to say they can easily switch back if the value proposition is strong enough.

This is rich coming from you. Just a few months ago, you were lamenting how 3rd party games like Monster Hunter, Persona, and Yakuza were no longer defacto PS exclusives. So what you actually want is a monopoly on software, but for PS.

 

[HogIsland]

I think the PC ports are worth doing for games like Helldivers, and maybe other multiplayer games. I think it makes a lot less sense for the major AAA single-player games and sort of devalues the consoles...especially in an era where their 1st party output is so bad already.

According to multiple Sony/Playstation leaders, they need to expand their audience to continue making big budget singleplayer games. So it actually makes sense and doesn't devalue the console. Not doing it would devalue the console.

 

[ArtHands]

im a PC gamer long ago (2070super GPU owner) last time, now im a hardcore console player.

if you think PC gaming will be getting better if console is out of the gaming market, you are dead wrong.

every single corporation out there is going to squeeze PC gaming to death and PC game optimization and brute forcing of hardware will remain the same, i can assure you haha. Lets not forget about the ridiculous PC hardware pricing.

It is only a matter of when, not if. I don’t see any reason to imagine what you said will happen.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I wouldn't really consider a PC a direct competitor to a console. Neither does Sony or they wouldn't put their games there.

Neither does anyone else. That's why I said a PS5 alongside your PC, not in place of.

 

[kaizenkko]

There's just a week left for Sony to release the financial results of the last quarter. They always hint something in these things. Live service or PC related, we will soon know something about what Sony's future plans.

But people here need to be more realistic. Sony themselves said that porting games to PC don't hurts their business, so I really don't know how people want to disagree.

 

[Hudo]

Nintendo has never made a project anywhere close to the scale of The Last of Us Part 2

Why? Because of the graphics? Because from a gameplay point of view, Last of Us Part 2 is pretty "small scale". It's a stupid thing to try to make comparisons like this. If you ask Nintendo, they'd say that a new 3D Mario or Zelda game is a "big scale" project. If you ask Sony, they'd say that a new God of War or Last of Us is a "big scale" project. And both would be right for different reasons.

 

[Ebrietas]

There's just a week left for Sony to release the financial results of the last quarter. They always hint something in these things. Live service or PC related, we will soon know something about what Sony's future plans.

But people here need to be more realistic. Sony themselves said that porting games to PC don't hurts their business, so I really don't know how people want to disagree.

MS used to say the same thing when they first started doing PC. Same with gamepass. These companies make miscalculations all the time.

 

[Shane89]

price for porting from ps5 to pc = cheap sh!t.
even if they sell a copy is still a reveneu for them

 

[Gaiff]

MS used to say the same thing when they first started doing PC. Same with gamepass. These companies make miscalculations all the time.

But a random forum poster like you without internal data is the one calculating correctly? Right.

 

[Ebrietas]

But a random forum poster like you without internal data is the one calculating correctly? Right.

Same response the xbros would give. Turns out the “random forum posters without internal data” were right all along. Try again.

Btw I hope I don’t see you ever criticize Sony over any decision they make. After all, they have all the internal data and you are a mere forum poster…

 

[Gaiff]

Same response the xbros would give. Turns out the “random forum posters without internal data” were right all along. Try again.

Btw I hope I don’t see you ever criticize Sony over any decision they make. After all, they have all the internal data and you are a mere forum poster…

It's comical how you lot keep dishonestly comparing the Xbox situation to the PlayStation one as if PlayStation had at any point in time lacked good games for a decade.

It’s also been four years. STFU about it and quit bitching.

 

[Felessan]

When that end happens it'll be the end of gaming as you know it unless you love cheap mobile games

Though those are not cheap

that will actually elevate the gaming industry, as console fanboys drop out of the industry, while the console players experience for the first time the benefits of PC gaming.

in PC most popular hits League of Legends, Fortnite and Genshin

and considering a lot of growth in PC gaming has come from once-console owners who switched over to PC for any number or reasons

This actually not true.
Western PC market is as stale as console market.
Primary growth of PC market is emerging market growth and these markets were never console, it's completely new market expanding due to growth of emerging markets.

 

[HogIsland]

Why? Because of the graphics? Because from a gameplay point of view, Last of Us Part 2 is pretty "small scale". It's a stupid thing to try to make comparisons like this. If you ask Nintendo, they'd say that a new 3D Mario or Zelda game is a "big scale" project. If you ask Sony, they'd say that a new God of War or Last of Us is a "big scale" project. And both would be right for different reasons.

i would just say open your eyes

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

This is rich coming from you. Just a few months ago, you were lamenting how 3rd party games like Monster Hunter, Persona, and Yakuza were no longer defacto PS exclusives. So what you actually want is a monopoly on software, but for PS.

Bro, you are projecting WAYYYY too hard here . That stuff you're talking about was me pointing out a problem for SIE; I personally don't care either way if those games are multiplatform as a gamer. Doesn't mean I can't see how that potentially causes issue with PlayStation as they end up with less exclusive games to sell their platform in the market.

The difference is, that's not the same thing as me saying I'd want those games to be exclusive, like it's blasphemous if they're multiplat or infringing on my rights if they're exclusive. I just wouldn't make a big fuss either way. If they're exclusive, cool. I just go where the games are.

I'm not out here calling exclusives pure evil, or pretending like no one can challenge PlayStation, or would be against someone filling in Xbox's role to better compete against PlayStation. But a lot of these Steam fanboys? They just act like it's Steam or nothing, or that literally no one should even try ever competing with them. While at the same time, complaining about console exclusives because they really just want all those games on Steam but are either too stupid or too scared to come right out and say it.

This actually not true.
Western PC market is as stale as console market.
Primary growth of PC market is emerging market growth and these markets were never console, it's completely new market expanding due to growth of emerging markets.

I mean for the Western market, a lot of that growth has come from once-console owners shifting over to PC, after many left PC for console during late 6th-gen (or once the 360 & PS3 came out).

For other markets I can understand what you're saying, but also worth noting is in some of those markets, such as China, console were officially banned for decades and only very recently were made legal devices. Those bans never existed for PC, so by association they never existed for PC gaming.

You could say, then, that PC gaming's growth in those emerging markets has been unbalanced and not in a purely fair market context, as consoles were either not officially available or were completely banned. And let's say in some of those markets, like Brazil, suppose PC gaming is growing. Well, that's more due to console providers not meeting specific needs, but it doesn't automatically mean PC is the only answer for gaming growth in that market. It just takes one console provider to rise to the needs of that market and then you'll probably see more people picking console over PC.

This idea that PC gaming is "inherently" the future of gaming is just completely unfounded and fraudulent, and I don't even mind PC gaming. I think it's pretty cool, actually.

 

[ArtHands]

If you count GAAS I'm sure that is true, but if you look at the shitty performance of their SP games on PC, they aren't worth the port.

There is also a hidden cost. If Sony release all their games on PC, as YOU yourself said eventually there will only be one option and Sony won't be it.

Sony will pull back their SP games from PC. They went down this path when they thought their future would be gaas and that you the PC gamer would pick up the funding they lost from the fans. We have spoken clearly with our wallets and so have you. They were wrong. Sony will capitulate to its userbase or you will be getting your all PC future sooner than you expected. The reality is that short single player AAA full priced games that don't launch day and date on PC will never sell well and will eventually disincentive purchase of Playstation products once gaming level PCs are ubiquitous.

If I know it Sony knows it and their SP games released on PC so far have only reinforced what I've said. They can just keep their dumb course or do a small course correction and lose the PC Spider-Man 2 revenue but keep their console business.

It's called the short cheese. Sony has been chasing the short cheese hoping to get rich quick with their gaas and leave SP and their old fans in the dust. They got proper fucked with Concord and they are now crawling back. I'll give you this, their management has sucked lately but I can't imagine the proper move isn't crystal clear at this point. Follow Nintendo, your better.

If it aren't worth the port, they would have stopped by now. They didn't, which means they are reaping the rewards.

Just because PC ends up as the only option doesn't mean Sony will get left out. They can still accessories like controllers to PC users. Or sell games on Steam or on whatever Playstation store on PC that Playstation fans has been begging for.

Considering the amount of Playstation "exclusive" games coming to PC this year (Stellar Blade, Rise of Ronin, Spider-Man 2, TLOU2 etc), and making PSN account optional, safe to say Sony isn't going to pull back their PC effort at all.

 

[HogIsland]

"It just takes one console provider to rise to the needs of that market"

 

[ArtHands]

Though those are not cheap


in PC most popular hits League of Legends, Fortnite and Genshin


This actually not true.
Western PC market is as stale as console market.
Primary growth of PC market is emerging market growth and these markets were never console, it's completely new market expanding due to growth of emerging markets.

Some of the most popular console games are Fortnite, Fifa, NBA, Genshin too.

 

[Randall365]

Sony can’t win - as they can’t say ‘play the best version’ and it’s an old game at this point.

 

[Felessan]

As long as similar spec prebuild PC costs twice the price of Playstation Sony wins by default

 

[DanielG165]

but if you look at the shitty performance of their SP games on PC, they aren't worth the port.

The vast majority of Sony’s single player games are performant on PC. They also aren’t slowing down on releasing their games onto PC, per The Last of Us 2 remake coming to Steam in a couple months, as well as Stellar Blade.

How people truly think that PC sales somehow “hurt” PlayStation and their bottom line is… Questionable, especially when whatever data that is available to look at says the opposite.

 

[HogIsland]

As long as similar spec prebuild PC costs twice the price of Playstation Sony wins by default

it's not hard to build a PS5-beating PC for under $650. Using all new, regular price parts. Battlemage GPU is disruptive even at $300.