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Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
PC is the only platform where the game can be saved. I’m sure within hours MJ will be launched into the sun and replaced with Zero Suit Samus or something.
Fess
Member
You know this. It’s a late release. Good sales numbers are an extreme exception. And in this case most also feel like they need to play Remake first, lowering sales potential drastically. I assume you haven’t looked at the CCU for Remake.
I’m going to play it, already in my library, but I’m not done with Remake yet, stuck on what I assume is the end game boss.
Killjoy-NL
Member
On the other hand, the investment into expansion to PC in part resulted/results in Concord, Marathon, Horizon MMO and the Gaas-strategy in general.Totoki would fire Hermen
There's more sides to each strategy.
Felessan
Member
You are fixing only on 1st party for some reason, while it's obvious that if Sony have any plans on "PC day1" the first thing they should do is to abolish exclusivity windows for 3rd party games (they cost them real money, unlike potential profits for 1st party). No indication of that.
As for why Sony went for PC instead of maintaining full exclusivity... see the picture below. If they want growth, they have, somehow, to tap territories where majority of market growth take place. And those territories are not really into playstation or its games, so they need a way to introduce playstation, even if it'll be playstation games on PC (dominant platform on emerging markets).
If you look closely at what games Sony buys to stay out of PC - you'll see that most of them are asian games.
You can throw out anything earlier than mid-ps4 out of the window on service game front. That's pre-mobile era, service games were niche and things differ greatly from game to game.
Now the number of games, their coverage and competition are completely different.
Of course not. You seems to lack knowledge of gaas. For gaas its playerbase is a lifeblood and it's several times more important than in SP games.
You can sell game slowly like demon souls did. In gaas space game will just die, gaas games revenue structure is different and they are very dependant on "MAU" (and often not even paying mau) for their sustenance.
And this is essentially their PC strategy. They want to have a trojan horse in PC heavy territories where the most market growth is.
Exactly
Stopping selling on PlayStation with 100% revenue to selling on Steam and paying 30% to Valve
I keep asking myself: why do you lie on the internet? Do you think you will "win" anything?
Convince Sony to give 30% of everything they sell to Steam?
Xbox ended up launching "day one" on PC and there are crazy people still raving that Sony should do this too?
I'm wondering if it's the same BOT that said "Sony should launch day one on Plus", but now it's "day one steam"
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Games that expensive have no ROI, they need to broaden the audience, you can’t be making 200mil games and expect an install base of 60mil to make your game profitable anymore, that’s without the added costs of marketing, distribution, etc.
Theres already leaked information of the outrageous amount of money Sony is giving their studios to make games, this is not sustainable.
I would think that a very successful GAAS could fund Single Player games, but as soon as Sony hits it out of the park with one of them, that’s the only thing they’ll care about, cause money. Fortunately for us they have failed miserably on every attempt.
Killjoy-NL
Member
They can just pick up whoever leaves the Xbox platform.
There's already growth there, since all those people aren't going to move onto PC collectively.
The main reason they need to expand rn is because Xbox is still a competitor and the audience pool is limited.
Xbox leaving leaves room to breathe and reassess the situation and current strategy.
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Will be great for preserving purpose.
Astray
Member
It's not even about it being too late.
The revenue from their past PC ports is now part of their baseline quarterly comparison, if they suddenly stop they might have to explain a drop in certain aspects of their financials.
This is the same reason Xbox won't be able to back out of the current 3P initiative either.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
If they have sense they'll put their games on switch 2.
awwr999999
Member
Apple having its own esoteric GPU means (unlike PS, Nintendo, Xbox and PC) Apple gaming could have a proprietary look. In reality everything games run on outside of Apple HW is either Nvidia or AMD and neither provides anything like a signature look.
If Sony continues to fall to the trap of porting there exclusives from there 1st and 2nd party, the ps6 might lose the next gen battle. MS xbox is just bluffing and what is MS xbox doing right now by porting its exclusives to other platform is just to trap Sony to do the same and port its exclusives which makes Sony lose its image as a the best place for exclusives. Fortunately Nintendo did not fall to that trap of porting there exclusives to other platforms. Sony is at risk of losing next gen especially with there western leadership and not to mention twisted woke agenda and DEI infested western leadership and studios.
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bitbydeath
Member
Or a gain.
BlackTron
Member
Sony first party games FY23
Sony first party games H1 (Q1+Q2) FY24
- PS: $905.89M *
- Outside PS (also including addons revenue): $667.35M
- PS: $248,38M *
- Outside PS (also including addons revenue): $330.12M
* = Extrapolated by applying to dollar sales the same percent (1st/total) than in unit sales
Note: 'outside PS' isn't PC only, it includes rival consoles and add-ons too, it isn't a 1:1 comparision.
Note 2: the yen -> $ currency exchange may have changed since it was converted from here:
Data from previous FY to see the growth (back then 'other software', non-PS 1st party game revenue, still didn't have their own category and was included under 'Others'):
Regarding PC only (not including rival consoles, the estimate for FY23 was $450M and the revenue growth is insane:
It's also worth mentioning that Sony already is one of the top 10 companies (when merging the publisher labels of each company) in Steam history regarding user reviews, and that both Destiny 2 and Helldivers 2 were top 10 grossing games of 2024 in Steam.
And well, remember that according to the leaked Insomniac docs, each port did only cost them around a couple millions or so. Meaning, PC isn't only generating them a lot of revenue: it also generates them a lot of profit.
While reading this I wondered how much of those crazy numbers were Helldivers II, glad we got a hint at the end of the post.
I think the strategy of select multiplats is sound. I wouldn't buy Bungie and then pull everything they have from PC. That would be insane especially as a FPS company.
But I don't think increased PC numbers from buying Bungie and financing a game that wasn't a Sony property (Helldivers II) necessarily means any and all games should walk away from the console, like Last of Us, Ghost and Horizon.
It's like Nintendo financing a sequel to a GAAS title with a PC audience, seeing the numbers, and going "oh wow. We should put DK, Mario and Zelda on PC too." Except they already have the highest operating margins and doing so would deconstruct their money machine after one generation.
Revenue from first party titles is not the whole story. If you are receiving maximum revenue from software by spamming it everywhere, there must be a correlation of a weaker console business. The first party titles exist to make people buy the console so that more money is made passively from everything else you do with it.
When Nintendo coerces you to buy a system for Zelda they get 30% of any other third party game you buy there after that event, passively. When they put Zelda on PC you just buy it there, and then Nintendo must immediately get back to work to make another sale.
Sony is sacrificing their leverage in consoles for short term profits, wanting both the platform holder money and third party publisher money. This will hurt their operating margins in the end, even if they have boosted sales for those 1p games. I'd rather have first party games that make my console essential, so that it's already in the living room when it's time to buy Vbucks or a Resident Evil title comes out. Right now they are coasting because 1) Xbox tanked hard and 2) The gen started expecting more of PS4 strategy, now the cat is out of the bag for PS6.
Astray
Member
Anything is possible, but I think it will more likely be a drop.
Remember that these ports cost Sony almost nothing now that they have Nixxes in-house, they spend a pittance on marketing them, and they sell thousands of keys in advance to keysites like Fanatical, Humble or GreenManGaming etc for example (which is something the Steam CCU discussions we have here don't really capture).
The PC ports are almost entirely pure profit margin for them, and it helps them penetrate in areas where they haven't had much success pushing consoles either. I think this port specifically is getting delayed, and maybe they adjust the timings of release for upcoming games, but I don't really foresee them stopping the ports.
Is it short-sighted of them to do so? Maybe, but that's a different discussion.
bitbydeath
Member
That’s what my original point was about.
There is no guarantees they are making enough money from it, and it will be reviewed if there are changes, eg. Microsoft dropping out.
Hudo
Gold Member
If you believe Sony's own numbers, their PC-strategy is bringing in money while not significantly affecting their console business negatively (They even argue that it creates a synergetic effect. But who knows). So I don't think they will stop anytime soon unless the CEOs decide to shift their overall business strategy completely.
SSfox
Member
The worst ennemi of PlayStation, even more than Microsoft
BlackTron
Member
At face value the numbers seem to indicate nothing is wrong, but I'm skeptical. While they hope to attract PC gamers to PS by exposing them to those IP, it's hard for me to imagine more PC users buying a Playstation to play TLOU3 earlier than PS players ditching PS over the same move.
The console is going to seem healthy no matter what because Xbox offed themselves and PS5 hit critical mass before they gave their hand away. The only thing they have left is being the default option for gaming consoles which is a precarious corner to put yourself in.
ToadMan
Member
Sony aren't selling that game to us - that was never the business model of 1st party games. They're selling you a storefront, and the exclusives are the carrot.
Once the storefront is in your home, you buy other stuff and Sony gets a slice each time - this is where the money is made.
That is the same for Apple with iOS, for android, Nintendo and others - make devices that are cost effective, make content people want specific to those devices, and bundle the storefront. It was the same for xbox until they suicided with gamepass and PC releases - they are an example of exactly what not to do - they made their storefront irrelevant and never recouped that loss from other revenue streams.
So that's really what we're talking about. Sony first party games don't have to carry the company profits alone - if they're profitable then great
(and sony is quite good at that on the whole), but the revenue from direct sales isn't key. The IP, the hype and the desire to play those games is important because that drives hardware sales. It's the follow on sales through the PS storefront that need to carry the revenue and profits, and the question is what makes people use that storefront? Well, games that only run on that hardware and the storefront being there.
If Sony continues down the PC route with their games, their revenues will go far lower - Sony isn't a game publishing company like MS. They're a multi media company with a heavy slant towards consumer electronics. Playstation may fail anyway as technology changes, but their best hope is to double down on hardware exclusivity with great games - it's still a viable model in gaming as Nintendo show and it plays to Sony's strengths. They won't "win" on PC - it's simply not their domain. Xbox died because they tried to compete with Sony and Nintendo outside their domain and they had much more cash available to try and make it work.
Sony isn't a PC game publisher. That is for MS, EA, Ubi and all the other third parties. Sony's goal is to keep PS relevant as a platform and they do that by differentiating from PC with exclusive content, not by joining the PC food fight.
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Roman Empire
Member
I just want for Sony to drop their PSN log-in for their games on PC. Well, at least for single-player games.
If they did that you bet their PC sales would be much better.
If they did that you bet their PC sales would be much better.
Truthtellers
Neo Member
digital media vs digital media
Intellectual dishonesty comparing different things to "win in the holy war against Sony's demonic evil"
There's no point explaining... they will compare physical media on PlayStation vs digital media on Steam...
They will say that magically because the game "is released simultaneously" on PC it will sell more on PC
Anything goes except caring about reality, everything to push the fantasies of the end of the PlayStation and "their" victory in the holy war.
It's the same people who made a circus on the internet because of a Login, for them this is an insult because it forces them to admit that Helldivers is a "playstation game" in the first place.
Is that what matters?
Revenue selling on PSN = 100%
Revenue selling on Steam = 70%
End of story, losing a sale on PSN to sell on Steam is stupid. The day that PCs have physical media, with used resale and exchange, you come back here and say "but what about physical media"
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
PC ports are releasing at a faster rate than new PlayStation games. It is inevitable that PC catches up.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Lokaum D+
Member
the big multi billion dollar company should be ashamed of wanting more money ?
Some ppl should be ashamed of being so clueless about this, Nintendo ll come to, give them time.
And that's why there is a PC port.
How tiring, you've already turned around and gone back to the beginning of the script
amigastar
Member
That's strange not caring about your product. I mean it's as you don't want it to succeed.
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Felessan
Member
They care about product, they don't really thinks there is a need to spend extra penny.
Basically their PC sales divided into 2 category:
1. West - sell to niche crowd. Get money from PC enthusiasts (often double-dippers), collectors etc. They don't really care about these players, they just grab extra money from them.
2. Developing countries - try to penetrate PC dominated market with high quality products to attract people to your ecosystem. They don't spend much on advertising because sales are not that much there to justify cost.
if what you say was true, then what's the point on releasing games on other platforms? Nah man, the games must be profitable, also they need a slice of the GAAS pie generate more income/profit.
Returning to exclusivity is leaving lots of money on the table, the Suits and Investors don't care about console wars, they like to see money being made, and lots of it.
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Dr. Samuel Hayden
Member
Yes but they won't because Hermen is the PS version of Phil Spencer
HogIsland
Member
The Hermen Hulst slander is crazy. This guy led one of Playstation's best teams, and he gave us one of the last great AAA new ips. He's currently involved with Kojima's spiritual successor to Metal Gear, to be published by Playstation. What else do you want ffs? Phil Spencer was never a game developer. He's just a Microsoft corporate guy.
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DonJimbo
Member
I hate Jimbo Ryan for bringing Playstation Exclusive Titles on PC
DonJimbo
Member
Are you sure Sony was strong in previous Generations where their Games only released on the Playstation
BlackTron
Member
Totoki would fire Hermen
So their debt is growing while their cash position is shrinking. No wonder we have $30 stands and begging to buy remakes.
PS6 is going to define Sony's future. They're at a crossroads.
Parazels
Member
This is a higher profit today, which will crash the brand tomorrow.
HogIsland
Member
I'm just relaying what Sony is saying. Profit margins are "not in a wonderful situation". They're less interested in "popularizing the console" and more interested in building strong first party content, where the profits are greater. We all know what the problem is. A Naughty Dog game costs > 400M now. PS5, while doing good overall, still doesn't reach enough people to comfortably make back the budget on massive AAA exclusives. In the big picture, the console pie is not growing cycle-to-cycle. It's no longer sustainable to reset the whole audience every 6-8 years.
Sony seeking growth by bringing more first-party games to other platforms
PlayStation is looking at bringing more of its exclusive first-party titles to other platforms, such as PC, in an effor…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Shawn Layden has more detail:
How former PlayStation boss views gaming’s tumultuous time | Shawn Layden interview
Shawn Layden used to run Sony Interactive Entertainment’s Worldwide Studios, a position that gave him unique insight into the whole industry and triple-A games. Layden is now an adviser for companies like Tencent Games, Streamline Media Group and Readygg. These consulting roles help him steer...
venturebeat.com
PC offers a number of solutions to Playstation's problems, and it's growing rapidly among gamers. This is a win for everyone.
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MikeM
Member
I'm just relaying what Sony is saying. Profit margins are "not in a wonderful situation". They're less interested in "popularizing the console" and more interested in building strong first party content, where the profits are greater. We all know what the problem is. A Naughty Dog game costs > 400M now. PS5, while doing good overall, still doesn't reach enough people to comfortably make back the budget on massive AAA exclusives. In the big picture, the console pie is not growing cycle-to-cycle. It's no longer sustainable to reset the whole audience every 6-8 years.
Sony seeking growth by bringing more first-party games to other platforms
PlayStation is looking at bringing more of its exclusive first-party titles to other platforms, such as PC, in an effor…
Shawn Layden has more detail:
How former PlayStation boss views gaming’s tumultuous time | Shawn Layden interview
Shawn Layden used to run Sony Interactive Entertainment’s Worldwide Studios, a position that gave him unique insight into the whole industry and triple-A games. Layden is now an adviser for companies like Tencent Games, Streamline Media Group and Readygg. These consulting roles help him steer...
PC offers a number of solutions to Playstation's problems, and it's growing rapidly among gamers. This is a win for everyone.
Certainly won’t help when you axe multiple investments in GAAS that don’t get a dime back. They need to amplify ROI stat and PC is the way to do it.
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